I think your position is illogical

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somersetlass

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2012, 04:21:59 AM »
Not only is that horizon flat, but it's not even horizontal. How come no-one's ever noticed this before?

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ThinkingMan

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2012, 05:59:47 AM »
That wasn't the point of that picture, first of all. Second of all, did you consider that the camera may be tilted because the point of the picture was to show his girlfriend and not the horizon?
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2012, 10:12:01 AM »
Need proof?



I never have liked anime..

Lol.  You have more important things to do, but you came back to post "proof" that your life is totally great.  This is adorable.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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One

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2012, 10:21:27 AM »
Lol.  You have more important things to do, but you came back to post "proof" that your life is totally great.  This is adorable.

Maybe I thought I could make someone rethink arguing in a sess-pit on the internet for the rest of their life. ;)
I said that they were answered.  I didn't say that they were answered correctly.

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garygreen

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2012, 10:57:27 AM »
If you care enough to look in the Wiki and search through the forum you will find that those things have been explained.

I have.  I have yet to see these questions resolved.  Point me to what I missed.

FET can't explain the appearance of the planets.  The appearance and orientation of Jupiter's red spot depends on, and corresponds perfectly to, one's location on the globe.  And, these orientations are impossible from a flat plane perspective.  The same can be said for the two transits of Venus that happened recently.  Modern astronomy predicts them perfectly accurately.

FET can't explain the appearance of the Sun or Moon.  Or nighttime.  Your own info from the wiki is blatantly contradictory.  The atmosphere does not magnify the apparent size of the Sun or Moon.  If it did, then they would always be visible to everyone on the plane.  They're not.  If it doesn't, then you can no longer explain the consistency of their apparent sizes.  It is impossible from a flat plane perspective.

FET can't explain navigation.  Or maps, for that matter.  Literally everyone who relies on accurately knowing the shape of the Earth observes that it is round.

Kepler's Epitome proved that the motions of the planets can be accurately predicted using a few principles based on the properties of ellipses.  Newton's Principia proved that Kepler's laws could be derived from, and were in fact an approximation of, his own planetary laws.  Feynman's Lost Lecture proves these laws with plane geometry.  Even Robowtham himself says that plane trigonometry "...admits of no uncertainty and requires no modification or allowance for probable influences." 

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General Relativity, Dark Matter, Doppler Shift, etc., has not been demonstrated or proven. What examples do we see in nature where light is blue shifted when things approach you? There is no possible way astronomers can know that the theory of Doppler Shift of light is valid. Looking at a blue star only tells us that it is a blue star and nothing more. There is nothing empirical telling us that it is moving towards us at super-luminous speeds, let alone anything telling us its distance. The Doppler Shift of light is little more than a hypothesis -- one of many.

Have you ever received a speeding ticket?  If so, you and the police officer demonstrated the relativistic Doppler effect.  Radar guns use the effect to measure your speed.  Look it up.

This is a great demonstration of your clear lack of understanding of the principles you criticize.  You simply don't understand how spectroscopy works.  Or what makes a star appear blue, apparently.  Absorption and emission lines on a spectrum are relative only to the atoms that compose the star.  The lines don't vary with temperature (technically they widen but don't shift).  It doesn't matter much if it's a blue star, red star, whatever star.  It only matters where the lines appear on the spectrum.



Also, GR has been verified.  No astronomer pretends to know what dark matter is.  Oh, and you use a host of things like Dark Energy, UA, and bendy light to justify your 'physics,' none of which has ever been demonstrated or observed by anyone ever.

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No one knows what powers the sun, as no one has sampled it directly. Early Spectroscopy told us that the sun is composed of hydrogen and helium, and so the hypothesis of Stellar Fusion was made to fit the observations, not the other way around. There are literally thousands of hypothesis' in astronomy. Very little of anything has fundamental evidence behind it -- yet if we ask an Astronomer if Stellar Fusion is true he will answer with a resounding 'Yes', parroting the answer of the school system, despite that Stellar Fusion has not been achieved in a lab and exists as an hypothesis only.

You're just asserting things.  Your assertions are incorrect.  I can do the same thing.  No one knows what causes disease.  No one has ever sampled a germ.  Early biologists told us that disease is caused by microscopic organisms, and the germ hypothesis was made to fit the observations, not the other way around.  There are literally thousands of hypotheses in biology.  Very little of anything has fundamental evidence behind it - yet if we ask a biologist if the germ theory is true he will answer with a resounding 'Yes,' parroting the answer of the school system, despite that germs have not been created in the lab and exist as an hypothesis only.

I have yet to see you point to a specific error in any of the fundamental works of astronomy.  You make all kinds of really generic claims about what you think astronomy hasn't proved, but I see no error with the proofs it provides.
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --

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Pongo

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2012, 11:52:23 AM »
Pictures of your objectively beautiful girlfriend do not go here. Please stay on topic. 

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ThinkingMan

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2012, 12:56:37 PM »
Tom, Stellar Fusion has not been created in a laboratory because it requires amounts of gravity and magnetism that can only be produced by the mass of a star. If one were to manage to replicate that gravitational force on earth, the tidal forces of the gravity would rip the planet apart. Not to mention the star we just made would consume what was left of earth and the moon, and probably spiral into out own sun, and who knows what could happen. However, if you can explain another way that a giant ball of gas could stay together and give off enough energy to heat our planet without burning out in 15 minutes, please do.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Kendrick

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2012, 05:56:59 PM »
One - your ladyfriend resembles a daliance in Picardie that left me a dreadful encounter with, as the french would say, choude pisse.  It is my duty as a Gentlemen of the World to inform you, I hope this news is timely and is accepted in the spirit with which it was offered.

Forum user Garygreen - your grasp on globularist ideas is quite formidable.  If we are fortunate to grow to the point where it would make sense to have conferences I would be interested in hearing you lecture.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 05:59:54 PM by Kendrick »

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ThinkingMan

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2012, 07:57:04 AM »
There's a problem with lecturing one idea to a group of people with another idea. They usually say you're wrong. Even if you bring compelling evidence to the table. It's like a born-again christian trying to talk to a catholic about their views on Christianity. If you like starting fist fights, perhaps this is a good idea. Even grown, mature adults get into fist fights over their ideals.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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The Ice Wall Ninja

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2012, 08:33:42 AM »
The Doppler Effect is a hoax created by the government to create the illusion of a spherical sun and Earth.  Light does not change color as it approaches you or moves away from you.  There is evidence that says the Earth is round, but this is false and taught to us since childhood.  I know for a fact, simply by looking at my window, that light stays the same color regardless of which direction it it traveling.
You'll never get past me, Round-Earthers!!!

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ThinkingMan

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2012, 09:41:20 AM »
You have now done this in two threads. Read the damned thread, there are experiments you can do to test the Doppler Effect for yourself, with simple things that you probably have in your home. You are an ignorant individual if you just dismiss things without taking a look into them. You can't possibly know if it's real or not without attempting to see it for yourself.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Pyriew

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2012, 11:52:01 AM »
If you actually research the laws of optics, you'll see that the sunset is just an illusion. Many scientists have calculated that this is true, just ask anybody who actually knows what he is talking about.
Der Sun do move and the Earth am Square.

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ThinkingMan

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2012, 12:11:17 PM »
If you actually research the laws of optics, you'll see that the sunset is just an illusion. Many scientists have calculated that this is true, just ask anybody who actually knows what he is talking about.
Who are you? This isn't about optics. It's about the doppler effect, which happens independent of optics.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Pyriew

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2012, 12:18:40 PM »
If you actually research the laws of optics, you'll see that the sunset is just an illusion. Many scientists have calculated that this is true, just ask anybody who actually knows what he is talking about.
Who are you? This isn't about optics. It's about the doppler effect, which happens independent of optics.

Sorry, I was talking about the OP. Should have specified to whom I was replying.
Der Sun do move and the Earth am Square.

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karkooshy

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2012, 01:33:24 PM »
Still waiting for a response to my original question.

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The Ice Wall Ninja

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2012, 03:24:34 PM »
If you actually research the laws of optics, you'll see that the sunset is just an illusion. Many scientists have calculated that this is true, just ask anybody who actually knows what he is talking about.

Those scientists are paid off by the government.  I'd accept the opposite of anything they say.  It's the only logical way to understand the flatness of the Earth.
You'll never get past me, Round-Earthers!!!

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BoatswainsMate

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2012, 06:59:15 PM »
If you actually research the laws of optics, you'll see that the sunset is just an illusion. Many scientists have calculated that this is true, just ask anybody who actually knows what he is talking about.

Please describe how the illusions associated with sunsets prove the sun is a spotlight? and the actual sunsetting is not an illusion, no scientist will tell you that watching the sun set is the illusion, but he will say that certain aspects of the sun are an illusions. So please enlighten me on how these illusions prove that the sun is a spotlight and not a giant ball of burning gasses.

I look forward to your reasoning.

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mathsman

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2012, 05:59:51 AM »
If you actually research the laws of optics, you'll see that the sunset is just an illusion. Many scientists have calculated that this is true, just ask anybody who actually knows what he is talking about.

About these many scientists, you wouldn't happen to know their names would you?

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Pyriew

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2012, 07:39:26 PM »
If you actually research the laws of optics, you'll see that the sunset is just an illusion. Many scientists have calculated that this is true, just ask anybody who actually knows what he is talking about.

Please describe how the illusions associated with sunsets prove the sun is a spotlight? and the actual sunsetting is not an illusion, no scientist will tell you that watching the sun set is the illusion, but he will say that certain aspects of the sun are an illusions. So please enlighten me on how these illusions prove that the sun is a spotlight and not a giant ball of burning gasses.

I look forward to your reasoning.

The sun is certainly not a spotlight.
Der Sun do move and the Earth am Square.

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BoatswainsMate

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2012, 04:22:56 PM »
If you actually research the laws of optics, you'll see that the sunset is just an illusion. Many scientists have calculated that this is true, just ask anybody who actually knows what he is talking about.

Please describe how the illusions associated with sunsets prove the sun is a spotlight? and the actual sunsetting is not an illusion, no scientist will tell you that watching the sun set is the illusion, but he will say that certain aspects of the sun are an illusions. So please enlighten me on how these illusions prove that the sun is a spotlight and not a giant ball of burning gasses.

I look forward to your reasoning.

The sun is certainly not a spotlight.

Ok well, I might have jumped the gun the. I still have a problem with the notion of the sun setting being an illusion. There are a few illusions that happen as it sets, but the sun setting is not the illusion.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2012, 05:21:13 PM »
If you actually research the laws of optics, you'll see that the sunset is just an illusion. Many scientists have calculated that this is true, just ask anybody who actually knows what he is talking about.

Please describe how the illusions associated with sunsets prove the sun is a spotlight? and the actual sunsetting is not an illusion, no scientist will tell you that watching the sun set is the illusion, but he will say that certain aspects of the sun are an illusions. So please enlighten me on how these illusions prove that the sun is a spotlight and not a giant ball of burning gasses.

I look forward to your reasoning.

The sun is certainly not a spotlight.

Ok well, I might have jumped the gun the. I still have a problem with the notion of the sun setting being an illusion. There are a few illusions that happen as it sets, but the sun setting is not the illusion.

The sunset is even an illusion in the RET model. In RET the sun does not actually intersect the horizon as it visually appears to do.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2012, 05:39:02 PM »
Intersect it?  It just looks like it's moving behind it.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Pyriew

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2012, 06:06:38 PM »
Intersect it?  It just looks like it's moving behind it.

Are you serious?
Der Sun do move and the Earth am Square.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2012, 06:28:27 PM »
Um yes, I'm serious that the sun does not appear to crash into the horizon, lol.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Pyriew

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2012, 06:29:53 PM »
Um yes, I'm serious that the sun does not appear to crash into the horizon, lol.

Would you like someone to explain the concept of intersection to you?
Der Sun do move and the Earth am Square.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2012, 06:31:01 PM »
Would you like someone to explain the concept of intersection to you?

Sure, go for it.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Pyriew

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2012, 06:44:01 PM »
Would you like someone to explain the concept of intersection to you?

Sure, go for it.

Intersect - to meet or cross at a common area.
Der Sun do move and the Earth am Square.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2012, 06:46:36 PM »
Would you like someone to explain the concept of intersection to you?

Sure, go for it.

Intersect - to meet or cross at a common area.

Well, the sun and earth at the horizon clearly don't appear to actually meet.  As for crossing, the sun does cross the horizon in RET, so I'm not seeing how that would be an illusion if Tom were using that definition.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2012, 08:02:32 PM »
The sun looks like it meets the surface of the earth when it sets. It doesn't. Hence, the sunset is an illusion.

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BoatswainsMate

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Re: I think your position is illogical
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2012, 10:01:35 PM »
The sun looks like it meets the surface of the earth when it sets. It doesn't. Hence, the sunset is an illusion.

That is an opinion, not fact. Many people, including me, do not see the sun meeting the horizon in the way you describe. I see the sun moving closer to the horizon and finally setting behind it. I never once thought the sun is  crashing into Earth. That would be silly.