Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.

For the record, the word "prestigious" doesn't really apply to anyone on these forums.

For the record, the word "prestigious" doesn't really apply to anyone on these forums.

pres.tig.ious
-adjective

1. indicative of or conferring prestige: the most prestigious address in town.

2. having a high reputation; honored; esteemed: a prestigious author.


How does this not apply?

Quote from: Tech on June 05, 2010, 02:06:27 AM

For the record, the word "prestigious" doesn't really apply to anyone on these forums.

pres.tig.ious
-adjective

1. indicative of or conferring prestige: the most prestigious address in town.

2. having a high reputation; honored; esteemed: a prestigious author.


How does this not apply?

Because nobody on this forum has any of those things. Please list which members have which qualities so you can be gunned down more easily. If you say James or Levee I will start laughing and pointing immediately.

Tom Bishop is highly presigious.

Quote from: Pongo on June 05, 2010, 02:14:13 AM

Quote from: Tech on June 05, 2010, 02:06:27 AM

For the record, the word "prestigious" doesn't really apply to anyone on these forums.

pres.tig.ious
-adjective

1. indicative of or conferring prestige: the most prestigious address in town.

2. having a high reputation; honored; esteemed: a prestigious author.


How does this not apply?

Because nobody on this forum has any of those things. Please list which members have which qualities so you can be gunned down more easily. If you say James or Levee I will start laughing and pointing immediately.

On a local level among Flat earth believers.

Stop this at once and review the forum rules.  If this continues you will both be banned.

Stop this at once and review the forum rules.  If this continues you will both be banned.

Thank you, that was extremely annoying, I bet the guy thinks he's clever for simultaneously trolling with an alt.

Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

thank you pongo

Quote from: Pongo on June 01, 2010, 01:22:10 AM

Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

thank you pongo

You're welcome.  The window-bowing effect is a well documented "phenomenon" and one of the more difficult indicators of a flat earth to argue. 

thank you pongo

Obvious sock puppet is obvious.

Also you're confusing "lens" with "curved pane of glass". This is a shame.

Quote from: Americasoontobegone on June 23, 2010, 02:03:47 AM

Quote from: Pongo on June 01, 2010, 01:22:10 AM

Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

thank you pongo

You're welcome.  The window-bowing effect is a well documented "phenomenon" and one of the more difficult indicators of a flat earth to argue. 

no, you just stated that X exists, and Y does.
you haven't shown if x, then y. this seems to be a recurring theme with you guys. state a possible mechanism (hypothesis) based on apparent phenomena without actual proof. if indeed the glass distorts the view to any noticeable length (not proven) how do you know that it does this to the extent necessary enough to make a flat earth look like the one observed in the plane?
you guys carry on about how Zeteticism is better than Science, yet you guys essentially just take the first three bits of the scientific method, Question, Observation, Hypothesis. you talk about phenomena that explains things, but you don't show that it does it. you base it solely of the effect given. i.e. the plane distorts the light because the earth looks round.

Quote from: Americasoontobegone on June 23, 2010, 02:03:47 AM

Quote from: Pongo on June 01, 2010, 01:22:10 AM

Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

thank you pongo

You're welcome.  The window-bowing effect is a well documented "phenomenon" and one of the more difficult indicators of a flat earth to argue. 

Where is it "well documented" outside of your head?

If you honestly believe you have accurately described why we see curvature out of aircraft windows at suitable altitude, i'm surprised the more serious FE'ers, the ones that actually believe, haven't outed you as a troll, or banned you. but then, they're just as confused as you i suppose.

Airplanes don't just suddenly start being pressurized at high altitudes, they are pressurized from ground level.

Fail.

No really, Fail.

Also, to address the topic at hand.

The Earth appears curved at a high altitude.... Because it is.

If the earth was indeed flat, given we are referring to air travel, how is it possible to fly in one direction, for an extended period of time, and rather then crash into Venus we end up doing a lap of the earth and landing in the same location...

Unless of course the earth is some kind of super advanced treadmill....

If the earth was indeed flat, given we are referring to air travel, how is it possible to fly in one direction, for an extended period of time, and rather then crash into Venus we end up doing a lap of the earth and landing in the same location...

You can't fly in one direction and come back to where you started, even on a round Earth.

Quote from: guilt08 on June 23, 2010, 07:01:31 AM

If the earth was indeed flat, given we are referring to air travel, how is it possible to fly in one direction, for an extended period of time, and rather then crash into Venus we end up doing a lap of the earth and landing in the same location...

You can't fly in one direction and come back to where you started, even on a round Earth.

well, aside from the fact you can, then no

You can't fly in one direction and come back to where you started, even on a round Earth.

Is this the point where you argue that a "direction" means you end up flying into outer space? It was unfunny the first time Steve.

(...)A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out(...)

Obvious troll is obvious.

Where is it "well documented" outside of your head?

I would think that the countless pic's posted on these very forms by every other noob showing a curved earth from a high altitude would be enough to classify it as well documented.

I would think that the countless pic's posted on these very forms by every other noob showing a curved earth from a high altitude would be enough to classify it as well documented.

This argument is incomplete. Please complete it before tomorrow.

OK, two things.  First of all, did any of you actually look into the construction of aircraft windows before positing this?  The windows on aircraft are kept small, circular, and rigid for a reason.  Except for the windshields in light aircraft, they are generally made with a very stiff laminar construction. There is good reason for this.

The pressure differential of a pressurized aircraft at altitude is truly large, and this can be a problem. The De Haviland Comet had a history of crashes until the engineers realized that large windows with square corners were causing stress fractures and eventual failure of the windows themselves. Obviously, this has a detrimental effect on passenger comfort and aircraft stability, to say the least.

So, even under the large pressures, aircraft windows are designed not to flex, bow, or twist in their mountings.


Also, im certainly no expert in optics, but if the image out the window is exhibiting a "fish-eye effect", wouldnt the wing and other visible objects (say the straight furrows of farmers fields) also be distorted?

OK, two things.  First of all, did any of you actually look into the construction of aircraft windows before positing this?  The windows on aircraft are kept small, circular, and rigid for a reason.  Except for the windshields in light aircraft, they are generally made with a very stiff laminar construction. There is good reason for this.

The pressure differential of a pressurized aircraft at altitude is truly large, and this can be a problem. The De Haviland Comet had a history of crashes until the engineers realized that large windows with square corners were causing stress fractures and eventual failure of the windows themselves. Obviously, this has a detrimental effect on passenger comfort and aircraft stability, to say the least.

So, even under the large pressures, aircraft windows are designed not to flex, bow, or twist in their mountings.


Also, im certainly no expert in optics, but if the image out the window is exhibiting a "fish-eye effect", wouldnt the wing and other visible objects (say the straight furrows of farmers fields) also be distorted?

That's the point we've been trying to make since the beginning of this thread, but they reject anything that disproves their theory.

Quote from: EireEngineer on June 23, 2010, 07:13:50 PM

OK, two things.  First of all, did any of you actually look into the construction of aircraft windows before positing this?  The windows on aircraft are kept small, circular, and rigid for a reason.  Except for the windshields in light aircraft, they are generally made with a very stiff laminar construction. There is good reason for this.

The pressure differential of a pressurized aircraft at altitude is truly large, and this can be a problem. The De Haviland Comet had a history of crashes until the engineers realized that large windows with square corners were causing stress fractures and eventual failure of the windows themselves. Obviously, this has a detrimental effect on passenger comfort and aircraft stability, to say the least.

So, even under the large pressures, aircraft windows are designed not to flex, bow, or twist in their mountings.


Also, im certainly no expert in optics, but if the image out the window is exhibiting a "fish-eye effect", wouldnt the wing and other visible objects (say the straight furrows of farmers fields) also be distorted?

That's the point we've been trying to make since the beginning of this thread, but they reject anything that disproves their theory.

ok so now we're up to 3+ people that have made this point, with not one single response.
I'm extremely tired of Zets claiming their hypotheses as proven theory. its really hypocritical for a group that don't consider themselves as making hypotheses, when in fact that's the only thing they make

The horizon is very large so it is easy to pick out the slight fish eye effects. It is quite hard to notice it on a small strip of farmland.

Also, im certainly no expert in optics, but if the image out the window is exhibiting a "fish-eye effect", wouldnt the wing and other visible objects (say the straight furrows of farmers fields) also be distorted?

The wing should definitely be big enough to be seen curved also.

And one of the many things they want us to forget is that, to have the "fish eye effect", or any other lensing effect, the center of the window would have to be stretched to the point where it is considerably thinner than the borders.

A piece of transparent material does not cause the images to appear smaller or bigger because it is curved, it is because its curve is different in the inner and outer surfaces.

So, imagine the strain that an airplane window would have to endure to become thin in the center so that the horizon would be distorted. No airplane would have survived a high altitude trip, ever.

I am a Round-Earth Believer. I have read your posts, and the "curved window" claim is very convincing. But, if you were to take this argument to the extremes, let's say space, pictures and videos taken specifically show that (A) the Earth is most definitely globe-shaped, and (B) that it isn't flat with rough pillar bottoms.

Take this picture as an example:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:hAaAtwkVKvYmUM:http://spiritualoasis.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/earth-from-space-western.jpg

It's fake.  Read the FAQ.

Quote from: AClassicalArgument on June 04, 2010, 10:11:32 PM

I am a Round-Earth Believer. I have read your posts, and the "curved window" claim is very convincing. But, if you were to take this argument to the extremes, let's say space, pictures and videos taken specifically show that (A) the Earth is most definitely globe-shaped, and (B) that it isn't flat with rough pillar bottoms.

Take this picture as an example:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:hAaAtwkVKvYmUM:http://spiritualoasis.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/earth-from-space-western.jpg

It's fake.  Read the FAQ.

^ This post is fake.

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 25, 2010, 12:13:35 PM

Quote from: AClassicalArgument on June 04, 2010, 10:11:32 PM

I am a Round-Earth Believer. I have read your posts, and the "curved window" claim is very convincing. But, if you were to take this argument to the extremes, let's say space, pictures and videos taken specifically show that (A) the Earth is most definitely globe-shaped, and (B) that it isn't flat with rough pillar bottoms.

Take this picture as an example:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:hAaAtwkVKvYmUM:http://spiritualoasis.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/earth-from-space-western.jpg

It's fake.  Read the FAQ.

^ This post is fake.

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you post such trite?  The picture is clearly fake.

Quote from: General Disarray on June 25, 2010, 12:19:35 PM

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 25, 2010, 12:13:35 PM

Quote from: AClassicalArgument on June 04, 2010, 10:11:32 PM

I am a Round-Earth Believer. I have read your posts, and the "curved window" claim is very convincing. But, if you were to take this argument to the extremes, let's say space, pictures and videos taken specifically show that (A) the Earth is most definitely globe-shaped, and (B) that it isn't flat with rough pillar bottoms.

Take this picture as an example:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:hAaAtwkVKvYmUM:http://spiritualoasis.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/earth-from-space-western.jpg

It's fake.  Read the FAQ.

^ This post is fake.

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you post such trite?  The picture is clearly fake.

Just leave him be. He still thinks magic is real despite the amount of magicians that have explained allv their tricks work.

Let him mutter his insanities in peace.

He still thinks magic is real despite the amount of magicians that have explained allv their tricks work.

Let him mutter his insanities in peace.

Did I ever say I think magic is real?

Just leave him be. He still thinks magic is real despite the amount of magicians that have explained allv their tricks work.

Let him mutter his insanities in peace.

Yes, he's obviously a Criss Angel believer.