The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: Pongo on June 01, 2010, 01:22:10 AM

Title: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Pongo on June 01, 2010, 01:22:10 AM
Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every flat-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved.  

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: WardoggKC130FE on June 01, 2010, 04:17:53 AM
This is all true. 
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: spanner34.5 on June 01, 2010, 06:07:00 AM
Both Wardogg and myself have looked out of an open aircraft window/door at varying altitudes.

To my knowledge neither of us has seen any evidence of a round Earth.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: markjo on June 01, 2010, 06:09:48 AM
Both Wardogg and myself have looked out of an open aircraft window/door at varying altitudes.

To my knowledge neither of us has admitted to seeing any evidence of a round Earth.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: General Disarray on June 01, 2010, 06:35:33 AM
Another troll for FET!

Airplanes don't just suddenly start being pressurized at high altitudes, they are pressurized from ground level.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: markjo on June 01, 2010, 06:51:00 AM
Another troll for FET!

Airplanes don't just suddenly start being pressurized at high altitudes, they are pressurized from ground level.

Not true.  Airliner cabins are typically pressurized to an altitude of about 6000 - 8000 feet at cruising altitude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: General Disarray on June 01, 2010, 07:05:29 AM
Another troll for FET!

Airplanes don't just suddenly start being pressurized at high altitudes, they are pressurized from ground level.

Not true.  Airliner cabins are typically pressurized to an altitude of about 6000 - 8000 feet at cruising altitude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization

I stand corrected, but according to the article "Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth" by David K. Lynch,

Quote
In view of the agreement between the visual observations,
measurements of the photographs, and the
theoretical curvatures, it seems well established that
the curvature of the Earth is reasonably well understood
and can be measured from photographs. The
threshold elevation for detecting curvature would
seem to be somewhat less than 35; 000 ft but not
as low as 14; 000 ft. Photographically, curvature may
be measurable as low as 20; 000 ft.

Curvature cannot be measured as low as 6-8000 feet anyway. So my point that airplane cabins are pressurized well below the altitude that curvature can be measured stands.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: WardoggKC130FE on June 01, 2010, 07:58:44 AM
Both Wardogg and myself have looked out of an open aircraft window/door at varying altitudes.

To my knowledge neither of us has admitted to seeing any evidence of a round Earth.

Fixed.

I swear on all that is holy, I have never seen a curvature in all my flight hours.


Curvature cannot be measured as low as 6-8000 feet anyway. So my point that airplane cabins are pressurized well below the altitude that curvature can be measured stands.

You are missing the point.  When an airplane pressurizes the pressure inside the airplane is greater than that outside the airplane.  In a Herk its about 7.5 psi at altitude.  An airliner probably runs about 9 psi ( At least the GIVs did)  Anyways that pressure pushes out on the hull of the airplane causing it to bow a little.  That is his point.  Not that the cabin is actually at 6-8K.  So if you have a 40 foot long by 8 fot wide by 12 foot tall cargo compartment.  How much total pressure is pushing out against the skin of that airplane?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Thermal Detonator on June 01, 2010, 08:07:26 AM
The original post is a massive failbag of trollness. If Wardogg thinks it's true it either means he's not really a pilot or if he is, he understands the machines he flies so poorly that he should be immediately grounded. Of course, he might be a troll too...  ::)
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Parsifal on June 01, 2010, 08:09:15 AM
The original post is a massive failbag of trollness. If Wardogg thinks it's true it either means he's not really a pilot or if he is, he understands the machines he flies so poorly that he should be immediately grounded. Of course, he might be a troll too...  ::)

I wasn't aware that understanding the physical properties of windows was a requirement for competent handling of an aircraft.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: WardoggKC130FE on June 01, 2010, 08:11:20 AM
The original post is a massive failbag of trollness. If Wardogg thinks it's true it either means he's not really a pilot or if he is, he understands the machines he flies so poorly that he should be immediately grounded. Of course, he might be a troll too...  ::)

Hmmmm i feel an experiment is in order.  I will report back the results tomorrow.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Thermal Detonator on June 01, 2010, 08:15:15 AM
The original post is a massive failbag of trollness. If Wardogg thinks it's true it either means he's not really a pilot or if he is, he understands the machines he flies so poorly that he should be immediately grounded. Of course, he might be a troll too...  ::)

I wasn't aware that understanding the physical proprties of windows was a requirement for competent handling of an aircraft.
Have you forgotten your ban on participating in discussions involving aviation?
You clearly don't understand my grounds for concern, so stop trying to join in.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: markjo on June 01, 2010, 08:19:20 AM
Both Wardogg and myself have looked out of an open aircraft window/door at varying altitudes.

To my knowledge neither of us has admitted to seeing any evidence of a round Earth.

Fixed.

I swear on all that is holy, I have never seen a curvature in all my flight hours.

Says the man that works for a known agency of the conspiracy.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: WardoggKC130FE on June 01, 2010, 08:26:36 AM
Both Wardogg and myself have looked out of an open aircraft window/door at varying altitudes.

To my knowledge neither of us has admitted to seeing any evidence of a round Earth.

Fixed.

I swear on all that is holy, I have never seen a curvature in all my flight hours.

Says the man that works for a known agency of the conspiracy.

Shhhh...dont tell them that.  They will never believe me now.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Parsifal on June 01, 2010, 08:28:28 AM
Have you forgotten your ban on participating in discussions involving aviation?
You clearly don't understand my grounds for concern, so stop trying to join in.

Your grounds for concern constitute Wardogg agreeing with the OP, which makes no claims regarding aviation, only a fairly obvious effect on the windows of aircraft.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Thermal Detonator on June 01, 2010, 09:04:35 AM
Have you forgotten your ban on participating in discussions involving aviation?
You clearly don't understand my grounds for concern, so stop trying to join in.

Your grounds for concern constitute Wardogg agreeing with the OP, which makes no claims regarding aviation, only a fairly obvious effect on the windows of aircraft.

You understand nothing, as revealed by this post.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: d00gz on June 01, 2010, 09:12:36 AM
The pressure differential between an aircraft and the outside atmosphere is not nearly enough to cause a noticeable elastic deformation of the sort of glass used in aircraft windows.

I thought you guys were up on your physics?

Really feeble attempt, you should be ashamed
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: WardoggKC130FE on June 01, 2010, 09:31:23 AM
Well an average window is about 9"x12.5" so that give us an area of  112.5 inches.  Now lets use the known psi of a Herk, 7 psi, that would give us 787.5 pounds of force on each of the windows in a cabin.  Obviouly being the weak point of the fuselage.  Do you not think that the fuselage bows out in flight because of it?  AIrliners are probably running about 9 psi...and many more windows.  It makes you wonder, even an inch would effect the view somewhat.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: General Disarray on June 01, 2010, 09:37:20 AM
 ??? Why has no one bothered to cite an analysis of what material airline windows are made of and their thickness or tolerance to pressure? Without any data to show what level of deformations would be caused by the pressures in an aircraft, this all seems pretty unfounded.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: d00gz on June 01, 2010, 09:50:07 AM
Well an average window is about 9"x12.5" so that give us an area of  112.5 inches.  Now lets use the known psi of a Herk, 7 psi, that would give us 787.5 pounds of force on each of the windows in a cabin.  Obviouly being the weak point of the fuselage.  Do you not think that the fuselage bows out in flight because of it?  AIrliners are probably running about 9 psi...and many more windows.  It makes you wonder, even an inch would effect the view somewhat.

A 9*12.5 glass window deflecting an inch in the middle? You're hilarious.

I'm crunching some numbers. Back shortly
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: d00gz on June 01, 2010, 09:55:24 AM
Right, assuming your window is 12.5 inch by 9 inch, and a very pessimistic quarter inch thick.

With 7 psi acting, and a Youngs modulus of 9*10^6 lbf/in^2 (bog standard borosilicate glass) you'll get a deflection in the middle of your plate of....

0.025 inches.

0.6mm

Essentially f*ck all.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: markjo on June 01, 2010, 10:00:35 AM
Right, assuming your window is 12.5 inch by 9 inch, and a very pessimistic quarter inch thick.

With 7 psi acting, and a Youngs modulus of 9*10^6 lbf/in^2 (bog standard borosilicate glass) you'll get a deflection in the middle of your plate of....

0.025 inches.

0.6mm

Essentially f*ck all.

Actually, most aircraft windows would most likely made out of some sort of acrylic in order to save weight and provide some flexibility (borosilicate glass would likely be too brittle).
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: General Disarray on June 01, 2010, 10:17:17 AM
Jet airliner cabin windows are usually acrylic, and consist of three layers of material for redundancy and safety.

Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Thermal Detonator on June 01, 2010, 10:19:11 AM
??? Why has no one bothered to cite an analysis of what material airline windows are made of and their thickness or tolerance to pressure? Without any data to show what level of deformations would be caused by the pressures in an aircraft, this all seems pretty unfounded.

If you know what they're made of, Mr Smartypants, why didn't you?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: General Disarray on June 01, 2010, 10:20:08 AM
??? Why has no one bothered to cite an analysis of what material airline windows are made of and their thickness or tolerance to pressure? Without any data to show what level of deformations would be caused by the pressures in an aircraft, this all seems pretty unfounded.

If you know what they're made of, Mr Smartypants, why didn't you?

Because I'm not the one making the claim that deformations in airplane windows cause apparent curvature on the horizon.

Anyone making such a claim should provide evidence to back it up, which would include what the windows are made of, their thickness, and the degree of deformation under standard cabin pressures.

An optical ray diagram would also be helpful because it could show exactly how rays of light would appear to show a curved horizon if the OP's assertions were true.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Thermal Detonator on June 01, 2010, 10:30:30 AM
??? Why has no one bothered to cite an analysis of what material airline windows are made of and their thickness or tolerance to pressure? Without any data to show what level of deformations would be caused by the pressures in an aircraft, this all seems pretty unfounded.

If you know what they're made of, Mr Smartypants, why didn't you?

Because I'm not the one making the claim that deformations in airplane windows cause apparent curvature on the horizon.

Yes, so by default if you take the sceptical stance to that claim you are making the counterclaim that this deformation does not happen.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: General Disarray on June 01, 2010, 10:34:03 AM
??? Why has no one bothered to cite an analysis of what material airline windows are made of and their thickness or tolerance to pressure? Without any data to show what level of deformations would be caused by the pressures in an aircraft, this all seems pretty unfounded.

If you know what they're made of, Mr Smartypants, why didn't you?

Because I'm not the one making the claim that deformations in airplane windows cause apparent curvature on the horizon.

Yes, so by default if you take the sceptical stance to that claim you are making the counterclaim that this deformation does not happen.

I never said that I claimed such deformations did not happen, and I should not be required to prove a negative in any case.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Superstring on June 01, 2010, 12:08:03 PM
And how do you account for such pictures taken outside of an aircraft, i.e skydivers?

(http://www.christianpf.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/sky-dive.jpg)
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Parsifal on June 01, 2010, 01:23:00 PM
The horizon only appears curved relative to the skydiver, whose body is curved in the opposite direction due to wind resistance.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Superstring on June 01, 2010, 01:36:56 PM
The horizon only appears curved relative to the skydiver, whose body is curved in the opposite direction due to wind resistance.

1. Wind resistance does not curve light.
2. What about someone in a windowless helicopter?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Parsifal on June 01, 2010, 01:39:02 PM
1. Wind resistance does not curve light.
2. What about someone in a windowless helicopter?

1. I didn't say it did.
2. What about them?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Thermal Detonator on June 01, 2010, 01:40:10 PM
??? Why has no one bothered to cite an analysis of what material airline windows are made of and their thickness or tolerance to pressure? Without any data to show what level of deformations would be caused by the pressures in an aircraft, this all seems pretty unfounded.

If you know what they're made of, Mr Smartypants, why didn't you?

Because I'm not the one making the claim that deformations in airplane windows cause apparent curvature on the horizon.

Yes, so by default if you take the sceptical stance to that claim you are making the counterclaim that this deformation does not happen.

I never said that I claimed such deformations did not happen, and I should not be required to prove a negative in any case.

While I generally agree with you, the phrase about not having to prove a negative crops up way too often on this forum as an excuse on all sides. It's meaningless, as ANYTHING can be turned from a "negative" to a "positive" and vice versa. For example, proving a window does not deform under pressure is the negative version: however, proving a window remains straight under pressure is the positive, and proving it does not remain straight (i.e. deforms) becomes the negative. The "proving a negative" clause should be put in the same trash bin as Burden Of Proof.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: WardoggKC130FE on June 01, 2010, 01:58:46 PM
Right, assuming your window is 12.5 inch by 9 inch, and a very pessimistic quarter inch thick.

With 7 psi acting, and a Youngs modulus of 9*10^6 lbf/in^2 (bog standard borosilicate glass) you'll get a deflection in the middle of your plate of....

0.025 inches.

0.6mm

Essentially f*ck all.

Now times that by the 80 or so windows and tell me how far the fuselage bows out....
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Superstring on June 01, 2010, 02:47:09 PM
1. Wind resistance does not curve light.
2. What about someone in a windowless helicopter?

1. I didn't say it did.
2. What about them?
1. A curved body does not create the perception of a negative curve for other objects, ie earth. If you claim it does, prove it.
2. (http://sites.google.com/site/peterbseelsite/_/rsrc/1248654724078/home/family-history-and-reunions/vietnam-portfolio-1970-1971/vnaf_huey_door_gunner_hosing_hot_lz_1971_rsz.jpg)
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: General Disarray on June 01, 2010, 02:47:17 PM
Right, assuming your window is 12.5 inch by 9 inch, and a very pessimistic quarter inch thick.

With 7 psi acting, and a Youngs modulus of 9*10^6 lbf/in^2 (bog standard borosilicate glass) you'll get a deflection in the middle of your plate of....

0.025 inches.

0.6mm

Essentially f*ck all.

Now times that by the 80 or so windows and tell me how far the fuselage bows out....

Ummm, 0.6mm in each window? The fuselage does not bow out at all, just the windows.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: markjo on June 01, 2010, 03:13:50 PM
Now times that by the 80 or so windows and tell me how far the fuselage bows out....
Why would the windows make the fuselage bow out?  ???
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 01, 2010, 04:16:11 PM
I swear on all that is holy, I have never seen a curvature in all my flight hours.

This is strange, since according to Pongo you can see a curvature.

A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.

See?

So which is it? No curve or optical illusion curve?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: vhu9644 on June 01, 2010, 06:14:04 PM
Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

the window acting as lense may be true, but how about from space, where you see (if earth was flat) the whole earth, and you see it as a shpere

and also the horizon is a line, not a point
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Parsifal on June 01, 2010, 11:01:08 PM
1. A curved body does not create the perception of a negative curve for other objects, ie earth. If you claim it does, prove it.
2. (http://sites.google.com/site/peterbseelsite/_/rsrc/1248654724078/home/family-history-and-reunions/vietnam-portfolio-1970-1971/vnaf_huey_door_gunner_hosing_hot_lz_1971_rsz.jpg)

1. The apparent curvature of the horizon in your image is sufficient evidence.
2. The edge of the helicopter also appears curved. Is the helicopter round?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: d00gz on June 01, 2010, 11:57:51 PM
Right, assuming your window is 12.5 inch by 9 inch, and a very pessimistic quarter inch thick.

With 7 psi acting, and a Youngs modulus of 9*10^6 lbf/in^2 (bog standard borosilicate glass) you'll get a deflection in the middle of your plate of....

0.025 inches.

0.6mm

Essentially f*ck all.

Now times that by the 80 or so windows and tell me how far the fuselage bows out....

Em, why? You think the pressure on each window causes the fuselage to expand? I thought you knew a thing or two about aircraft. Clearly not.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Ellipsis on June 02, 2010, 12:48:45 AM
This causes the windows to bow and give objects in the distance a curved look.

Wouldn't that cause the horizon to slope up at the edges instead of down?  For further experimentation: look at your reflection on either side of that cereal spoon, Mr. Wizard.  The lens you're pretending it would form would only curve the edges down if the horizon were above the vanishing point when viewed straight out.  Even if I try to help you and we presume that's the case and the plane is tilted, it still doesn't account for the people looking from the other side who would view just the opposite curvature.  Good day, sir.

Now times that by the 80 or so windows and tell me how far the fuselage bows out....

Multiplying the windows affected doesn't change anything if the pressure is constant.  If we DO account for the slight change in pressure, there's actually less force acting over each area, as the total volume has increased.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: d00gz on June 02, 2010, 12:59:25 AM
1. A curved body does not create the perception of a negative curve for other objects, ie earth. If you claim it does, prove it.
2. (http://sites.google.com/site/peterbseelsite/_/rsrc/1248654724078/home/family-history-and-reunions/vietnam-portfolio-1970-1971/vnaf_huey_door_gunner_hosing_hot_lz_1971_rsz.jpg)

1. The apparent curvature of the horizon in your image is sufficient evidence.
2. The edge of the helicopter also appears curved. Is the helicopter round?

Yes. Do you think it's a flying cuboid?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Pongo on June 02, 2010, 01:28:27 AM
This causes the windows to bow and give objects in the distance a curved look.
Wouldn't that cause the horizon to slope up at the edges instead of down?  For further experimentation: look at your reflection on either side of that cereal spoon, Mr. Wizard.  The lens you're pretending it would form would only curve the edges down if the horizon were above the vanishing point when viewed straight out.  Even if I try to help you and we presume that's the case and the plane is tilted, it still doesn't account for the people looking from the other side who would view just the opposite curvature.  Good day, sir.

Are you seriously making this argument?  I'm not even sure where to begin on how wrong you are... I guess I should start with the easiest flaw.  A spoon is opaque and reflective, a window is translucent.

(http://sites.google.com/site/peterbseelsite/_/rsrc/1248654724078/home/family-history-and-reunions/vietnam-portfolio-1970-1971/vnaf_huey_door_gunner_hosing_hot_lz_1971_rsz.jpg)

What the hell is this a picture of?  An ice wall guard?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Ellipsis on June 02, 2010, 02:39:56 AM
I figured the reflection of spoons would be a more readily available demonstration of different kinds of visual warping due to light reflecting off (or traveling through) bent materials.

Now that I think about it: what kind of lensing is this even supposed to be?  Unless the thickness of the window somehow seriously changes between the middle and edges, you're not going to get much of a warped image at all.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: jackofhearts on June 02, 2010, 02:57:11 AM
Remember that picture I showed you from a balloon?

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=39375.0

Ladies and gentlemen, please direct your attention to the FE fail above.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 02, 2010, 06:27:15 AM
2. The edge of the helicopter also appears curved. Is the helicopter round?

The edge of the helicopter is not the earth. You need to take a few days off to recover your troll powas.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: trig on June 02, 2010, 08:12:29 AM
I figured the reflection of spoons would be a more readily available demonstration of different kinds of visual warping due to light reflecting off (or traveling through) bent materials.

Now that I think about it: what kind of lensing is this even supposed to be?  Unless the thickness of the window somehow seriously changes between the middle and edges, you're not going to get much of a warped image at all.
This is exactly the point. Lenses have to have varying thickness to have any effect on images that pass through them. To have the effect of making the horizon seem curved (and always curved in the same direction), the windows should have a very special combination of thick and thin places, and very special shear characteristics so that it would change exactly as needed to create this "illusion" only when the plane is at high altitudes.

Nobody with even a passing knowledge of optics would even consider this hypothesis seriously. Even if someone decided to give this garbage some possibility of being true, he would look at a typical airplane window for a couple of minutes and see how they are pretty much flat and with constant thickness.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: f(x) on June 02, 2010, 07:25:57 PM
Remember that picture I showed you from a balloon?

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=39375.0

Ladies and gentlemen, please direct your attention to the FE fail above.

That might be sufficient evidence if the photo had not clearly been digitally altered.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Tech on June 02, 2010, 08:15:52 PM
Remember that picture I showed you from a balloon?

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=39375.0

Ladies and gentlemen, please direct your attention to the FE fail above.

That is sufficient evidence that the FEH is false until I can prove that it was digitally altered, because it is in no way "clearly digitally altered."
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: The Question1 on June 02, 2010, 08:17:36 PM
Remember that picture I showed you from a balloon?

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=39375.0

Ladies and gentlemen, please direct your attention to the FE fail above.

That might be sufficient evidence if the photo had not clearly been digitally altered.
Explain how it was "Clearly" digitally altered.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: f(x) on June 02, 2010, 08:37:22 PM
Remember that picture I showed you from a balloon?

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=39375.0

Ladies and gentlemen, please direct your attention to the FE fail above.

That might be sufficient evidence if the photo had not clearly been digitally altered.
Explain how it was "Clearly" digitally altered.

Well it's quite simple really; if it hadn't been altered it would show that the earth is flat.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: General Disarray on June 02, 2010, 09:42:16 PM
ITT (and every other created by Pongo): He poorly understands scientific principles, makes broad and incorrect assumptions, and ignores any posts which prove him wrong.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Tech on June 03, 2010, 02:53:34 AM
ITT (and every other created by Pongo): He poorly understands scientific principles, makes broad and incorrect assumptions, and ignores any posts which prove him wrong.

Yea, but he does it on purpose, he's trolling.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Pongo on June 03, 2010, 03:02:25 AM
ITT (and every other created by Pongo): He poorly understands scientific principles, makes broad and incorrect assumptions, and ignores any posts which prove him wrong.

Yea, but he does it on purpose, he's trolling.

I'm not trolling.  In general, I ignore posts that have been answered over and over again by other flat earthers.  I almost always ignore posts that I have already answered, especially if I've answered them in the same thread. 

Ignoring asinine questions does not mean I am trolling.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Tech on June 03, 2010, 03:07:03 AM
ITT (and every other created by Pongo): He poorly understands scientific principles, makes broad and incorrect assumptions, and ignores any posts which prove him wrong.

Yea, but he does it on purpose, he's trolling.

I'm not trolling.  In general, I ignore posts that have been answered over and over again by other flat earthers.  I almost always ignore posts that I have already answered, especially if I've answered them in the same thread. 

Ignoring asinine questions does not mean I am trolling.

You can't prove you aren't trolling...
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Pongo on June 03, 2010, 03:15:52 AM
You have a preconceived notion that I am trolling.  If I say I'm not trolling, then you say I'm just trolling and that's what a troll would say.  If I say I am trolling then you conciser your accusations vindicated.

It's not I that's can't prove I'm not trolling, it's you that cannot accept I'm not trolling.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: jackofhearts on June 03, 2010, 07:16:26 AM
You have a preconceived notion that I am trolling.  If I say I'm not trolling, then you say I'm just trolling and that's what a troll would say.  If I say I am trolling then you conciser your accusations vindicated.

It's not I that's can't prove I'm not trolling, it's you that cannot accept I'm not trolling.

If you'd stop making 'thickly sarcastic remarks', then maybe people would take you more seriously.

The problem is, nobody can tell the difference between your sacrcastic remarks and your real thoughts and opinions. 
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Tech on June 03, 2010, 08:13:50 PM
You have a preconceived notion that I am trolling.  If I say I'm not trolling, then you say I'm just trolling and that's what a troll would say.  If I say I am trolling then you conciser your accusations vindicated.

It's not I that's can't prove I'm not trolling, it's you that cannot accept I'm not trolling.
That reminds me of the beliefs of Flat Earthers.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: AClassicalArgument on June 04, 2010, 10:11:32 PM
I am a Round-Earth Believer. I have read your posts, and the "curved window" claim is very convincing. But, if you were to take this argument to the extremes, let's say space, pictures and videos taken specifically show that (A) the Earth is most definitely globe-shaped, and (B) that it isn't flat with rough pillar bottoms.

Take this picture as an example:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:hAaAtwkVKvYmUM:http://spiritualoasis.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/earth-from-space-western.jpg
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Pongo on June 05, 2010, 01:50:51 AM
I am a Round-Earth Believer. I have read your posts, and the "curved window" claim is very convincing. But, if you were to take this argument to the extremes, let's say space, pictures and videos taken specifically show that (A) the Earth is most definitely globe-shaped, and (B) that it isn't flat with rough pillar bottoms.

Take this picture as an example:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:hAaAtwkVKvYmUM:http://spiritualoasis.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/earth-from-space-western.jpg

It is widely accepted among the more prestigious members of these fora that pictures of the ilk that you have cited are nothing more than master forgeries.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Tech on June 05, 2010, 02:06:27 AM
For the record, the word "prestigious" doesn't really apply to anyone on these forums.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Pongo on June 05, 2010, 02:14:13 AM
For the record, the word "prestigious" doesn't really apply to anyone on these forums.


pres.tig.ious
-adjective

1. indicative of or conferring prestige: the most prestigious address in town.

2. having a high reputation; honored; esteemed: a prestigious author.


How does this not apply?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Thermal Detonator on June 05, 2010, 03:57:21 AM
For the record, the word "prestigious" doesn't really apply to anyone on these forums.


pres.tig.ious
-adjective

1. indicative of or conferring prestige: the most prestigious address in town.

2. having a high reputation; honored; esteemed: a prestigious author.


How does this not apply?

Because nobody on this forum has any of those things. Please list which members have which qualities so you can be gunned down more easily. If you say James or Levee I will start laughing and pointing immediately.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 05, 2010, 07:01:22 AM
Tom Bishop is highly presigious.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: The Question1 on June 05, 2010, 07:04:14 AM
For the record, the word "prestigious" doesn't really apply to anyone on these forums.


pres.tig.ious
-adjective

1. indicative of or conferring prestige: the most prestigious address in town.

2. having a high reputation; honored; esteemed: a prestigious author.


How does this not apply?

Because nobody on this forum has any of those things. Please list which members have which qualities so you can be gunned down more easily. If you say James or Levee I will start laughing and pointing immediately.
On a local level among Flat earth believers.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: John Davis on June 15, 2010, 04:44:52 AM
Stop this at once and review the forum rules.  If this continues you will both be banned.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Thevoiceofreason on June 15, 2010, 04:53:51 AM
Stop this at once and review the forum rules.  If this continues you will both be banned.

Thank you, that was extremely annoying, I bet the guy thinks he's clever for simultaneously trolling with an alt.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Americasoontobegone on June 23, 2010, 02:03:47 AM
Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

thank you pongo
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Pongo on June 23, 2010, 02:26:57 AM
Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

thank you pongo

You're welcome.  The window-bowing effect is a well documented "phenomenon" and one of the more difficult indicators of a flat earth to argue. 
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 23, 2010, 03:26:40 AM
thank you pongo

Obvious sock puppet is obvious.

Also you're confusing "lens" with "curved pane of glass". This is a shame.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Thevoiceofreason on June 23, 2010, 05:20:00 AM
Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

thank you pongo

You're welcome.  The window-bowing effect is a well documented "phenomenon" and one of the more difficult indicators of a flat earth to argue. 
no, you just stated that X exists, and Y does.
you haven't shown if x, then y. this seems to be a recurring theme with you guys. state a possible mechanism (hypothesis) based on apparent phenomena without actual proof. if indeed the glass distorts the view to any noticeable length (not proven) how do you know that it does this to the extent necessary enough to make a flat earth look like the one observed in the plane?
you guys carry on about how Zeteticism is better than Science, yet you guys essentially just take the first three bits of the scientific method, Question, Observation, Hypothesis. you talk about phenomena that explains things, but you don't show that it does it. you base it solely of the effect given. i.e. the plane distorts the light because the earth looks round.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: d00gz on June 23, 2010, 06:43:42 AM
Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

thank you pongo

You're welcome.  The window-bowing effect is a well documented "phenomenon" and one of the more difficult indicators of a flat earth to argue. 

Where is it "well documented" outside of your head?

If you honestly believe you have accurately described why we see curvature out of aircraft windows at suitable altitude, i'm surprised the more serious FE'ers, the ones that actually believe, haven't outed you as a troll, or banned you. but then, they're just as confused as you i suppose.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: guilt08 on June 23, 2010, 07:01:31 AM
Airplanes don't just suddenly start being pressurized at high altitudes, they are pressurized from ground level.

Fail.

No really, Fail.

Also, to address the topic at hand.

The Earth appears curved at a high altitude.... Because it is.

If the earth was indeed flat, given we are referring to air travel, how is it possible to fly in one direction, for an extended period of time, and rather then crash into Venus we end up doing a lap of the earth and landing in the same location...

Unless of course the earth is some kind of super advanced treadmill....
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Parsifal on June 23, 2010, 07:03:07 AM
If the earth was indeed flat, given we are referring to air travel, how is it possible to fly in one direction, for an extended period of time, and rather then crash into Venus we end up doing a lap of the earth and landing in the same location...

You can't fly in one direction and come back to where you started, even on a round Earth.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: guilt08 on June 23, 2010, 07:12:05 AM
If the earth was indeed flat, given we are referring to air travel, how is it possible to fly in one direction, for an extended period of time, and rather then crash into Venus we end up doing a lap of the earth and landing in the same location...

You can't fly in one direction and come back to where you started, even on a round Earth.

well, aside from the fact you can, then no
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 23, 2010, 07:12:49 AM
You can't fly in one direction and come back to where you started, even on a round Earth.

Is this the point where you argue that a "direction" means you end up flying into outer space? It was unfunny the first time Steve.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on June 23, 2010, 07:17:26 AM
(...)A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out(...)

Obvious troll is obvious.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Pongo on June 23, 2010, 12:18:09 PM
Where is it "well documented" outside of your head?

I would think that the countless pic's posted on these very forms by every other noob showing a curved earth from a high altitude would be enough to classify it as well documented.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 23, 2010, 02:13:07 PM
I would think that the countless pic's posted on these very forms by every other noob showing a curved earth from a high altitude would be enough to classify it as well documented.

This argument is incomplete. Please complete it before tomorrow.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on June 23, 2010, 07:13:50 PM
OK, two things.  First of all, did any of you actually look into the construction of aircraft windows before positing this?  The windows on aircraft are kept small, circular, and rigid for a reason.  Except for the windshields in light aircraft, they are generally made with a very stiff laminar construction. There is good reason for this.

The pressure differential of a pressurized aircraft at altitude is truly large, and this can be a problem. The De Haviland Comet had a history of crashes until the engineers realized that large windows with square corners were causing stress fractures and eventual failure of the windows themselves. Obviously, this has a detrimental effect on passenger comfort and aircraft stability, to say the least.

So, even under the large pressures, aircraft windows are designed not to flex, bow, or twist in their mountings.


Also, im certainly no expert in optics, but if the image out the window is exhibiting a "fish-eye effect", wouldnt the wing and other visible objects (say the straight furrows of farmers fields) also be distorted?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: General Disarray on June 23, 2010, 07:43:12 PM
OK, two things.  First of all, did any of you actually look into the construction of aircraft windows before positing this?  The windows on aircraft are kept small, circular, and rigid for a reason.  Except for the windshields in light aircraft, they are generally made with a very stiff laminar construction. There is good reason for this.

The pressure differential of a pressurized aircraft at altitude is truly large, and this can be a problem. The De Haviland Comet had a history of crashes until the engineers realized that large windows with square corners were causing stress fractures and eventual failure of the windows themselves. Obviously, this has a detrimental effect on passenger comfort and aircraft stability, to say the least.

So, even under the large pressures, aircraft windows are designed not to flex, bow, or twist in their mountings.


Also, im certainly no expert in optics, but if the image out the window is exhibiting a "fish-eye effect", wouldnt the wing and other visible objects (say the straight furrows of farmers fields) also be distorted?

That's the point we've been trying to make since the beginning of this thread, but they reject anything that disproves their theory.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Thevoiceofreason on June 23, 2010, 10:56:23 PM
OK, two things.  First of all, did any of you actually look into the construction of aircraft windows before positing this?  The windows on aircraft are kept small, circular, and rigid for a reason.  Except for the windshields in light aircraft, they are generally made with a very stiff laminar construction. There is good reason for this.

The pressure differential of a pressurized aircraft at altitude is truly large, and this can be a problem. The De Haviland Comet had a history of crashes until the engineers realized that large windows with square corners were causing stress fractures and eventual failure of the windows themselves. Obviously, this has a detrimental effect on passenger comfort and aircraft stability, to say the least.

So, even under the large pressures, aircraft windows are designed not to flex, bow, or twist in their mountings.


Also, im certainly no expert in optics, but if the image out the window is exhibiting a "fish-eye effect", wouldnt the wing and other visible objects (say the straight furrows of farmers fields) also be distorted?

That's the point we've been trying to make since the beginning of this thread, but they reject anything that disproves their theory.
ok so now we're up to 3+ people that have made this point, with not one single response.
I'm extremely tired of Zets claiming their hypotheses as proven theory. its really hypocritical for a group that don't consider themselves as making hypotheses, when in fact that's the only thing they make
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 24, 2010, 10:32:44 PM
The horizon is very large so it is easy to pick out the slight fish eye effects. It is quite hard to notice it on a small strip of farmland.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: trig on June 25, 2010, 02:19:47 AM
Also, im certainly no expert in optics, but if the image out the window is exhibiting a "fish-eye effect", wouldnt the wing and other visible objects (say the straight furrows of farmers fields) also be distorted?
The wing should definitely be big enough to be seen curved also.

And one of the many things they want us to forget is that, to have the "fish eye effect", or any other lensing effect, the center of the window would have to be stretched to the point where it is considerably thinner than the borders.

A piece of transparent material does not cause the images to appear smaller or bigger because it is curved, it is because its curve is different in the inner and outer surfaces.

So, imagine the strain that an airplane window would have to endure to become thin in the center so that the horizon would be distorted. No airplane would have survived a high altitude trip, ever.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 25, 2010, 12:13:35 PM
I am a Round-Earth Believer. I have read your posts, and the "curved window" claim is very convincing. But, if you were to take this argument to the extremes, let's say space, pictures and videos taken specifically show that (A) the Earth is most definitely globe-shaped, and (B) that it isn't flat with rough pillar bottoms.

Take this picture as an example:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:hAaAtwkVKvYmUM:http://spiritualoasis.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/earth-from-space-western.jpg

It's fake.  Read the FAQ.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: General Disarray on June 25, 2010, 12:19:35 PM
I am a Round-Earth Believer. I have read your posts, and the "curved window" claim is very convincing. But, if you were to take this argument to the extremes, let's say space, pictures and videos taken specifically show that (A) the Earth is most definitely globe-shaped, and (B) that it isn't flat with rough pillar bottoms.

Take this picture as an example:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:hAaAtwkVKvYmUM:http://spiritualoasis.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/earth-from-space-western.jpg

It's fake.  Read the FAQ.

^ This post is fake.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Pongo on June 25, 2010, 01:07:41 PM
I am a Round-Earth Believer. I have read your posts, and the "curved window" claim is very convincing. But, if you were to take this argument to the extremes, let's say space, pictures and videos taken specifically show that (A) the Earth is most definitely globe-shaped, and (B) that it isn't flat with rough pillar bottoms.

Take this picture as an example:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:hAaAtwkVKvYmUM:http://spiritualoasis.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/earth-from-space-western.jpg

It's fake.  Read the FAQ.

^ This post is fake.

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you post such trite?  The picture is clearly fake.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on June 25, 2010, 01:12:34 PM
I am a Round-Earth Believer. I have read your posts, and the "curved window" claim is very convincing. But, if you were to take this argument to the extremes, let's say space, pictures and videos taken specifically show that (A) the Earth is most definitely globe-shaped, and (B) that it isn't flat with rough pillar bottoms.

Take this picture as an example:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:hAaAtwkVKvYmUM:http://spiritualoasis.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/earth-from-space-western.jpg

It's fake.  Read the FAQ.

^ This post is fake.

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you post such trite?  The picture is clearly fake.

Just leave him be. He still thinks magic is real despite the amount of magicians that have explained allv their tricks work.

Let him mutter his insanities in peace.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: General Disarray on June 25, 2010, 01:13:28 PM
He still thinks magic is real despite the amount of magicians that have explained allv their tricks work.

Let him mutter his insanities in peace.

Did I ever say I think magic is real?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 25, 2010, 01:14:11 PM
Just leave him be. He still thinks magic is real despite the amount of magicians that have explained allv their tricks work.

Let him mutter his insanities in peace.

Yes, he's obviously a Criss Angel believer.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: PizzaPlanet on June 25, 2010, 01:16:37 PM
He still thinks magic is real despite the amount of magicians that have explained allv their tricks work.

Let him mutter his insanities in peace.

Did I ever say I think magic is real?
You do call yourself a magic specialist...  ::)
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: General Disarray on June 25, 2010, 01:18:10 PM
Specializing in something does not mean that I believe in it. Not that my beliefs are relevant to this thread anyway.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: PizzaPlanet on June 25, 2010, 01:30:03 PM
Doesn't that make you a DA?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on June 25, 2010, 01:33:14 PM
Doesn't that make you a DA?

Check his sig, he is a magic troll.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: BtheB on June 25, 2010, 01:42:24 PM
Check his sig, he is a magic troll.

Sweet! Does he grant wishes?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on June 25, 2010, 08:49:26 PM
Check his sig, he is a magic troll.

Sweet! Does he grant wishes?

I don't recall....
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 26, 2010, 09:26:05 AM
The horizon is very large so it is easy to pick out the slight fish eye effects. It is quite hard to notice it on a small strip of farmland.

I've read this three times now. All I can say is "wut".
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on June 26, 2010, 01:47:52 PM
Apparently Joannes has never played with magnifiers and distorting optics like fish-eye lenses.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 26, 2010, 10:07:09 PM
(http://www.asiaphotohub.com/Jason/Images/2007pix/FishEye001xs.jpg)
(http://www.jasonhollister.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/polish2.jpg)

Notice how when you approach the edge of the fish eye lens the distortion increases, giving the illusion of a curved earth. That is what you are seeing. Also notice how for most of the center of the image, the fish eye effect is imperceptible.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: trig on June 27, 2010, 03:29:19 AM
http://www.asiaphotohub.com/Jason/Images/2007pix/FishEye001xs.jpg
http://www.jasonhollister.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/polish2.jpg

Notice how when you approach the edge of the fish eye lens the distortion increases, giving the illusion of a curved earth. That is what you are seeing. Also notice how for most of the center of the image, the fish eye effect is imperceptible.
Now, notice how the lens used to make this picture is made of very curved lenses, each one of which is a lot thinner or a lot thicker in the middle than in its border.

Then look at an airplane window and tell me if the glass or plastic is thinner in the middle. There is a field of science called Optics. You are redefining it completely to give some possibility to your hypothesis.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 27, 2010, 05:24:36 AM
Also notice that the lens produces curves in both directions, and is easily detectable as a fish eye photo.

Johannes fails so that all of TFES might fail. Is he not glorious?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on June 27, 2010, 08:33:23 AM
(http://www.asiaphotohub.com/Jason/Images/2007pix/FishEye001xs.jpg)
(http://www.jasonhollister.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/polish2.jpg)

Notice how when you approach the edge of the fish eye lens the distortion increases, giving the illusion of a curved earth. That is what you are seeing. Also notice how for most of the center of the image, the fish eye effect is imperceptible.
And notice also that both the building and the dock, both objects in the near field, are visibly distorted as well. For your hypothesis to work, near objects near the edges of the window frame would also be visibly distorted.  Since they are not, massive fail.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 27, 2010, 10:56:12 AM
In my second picture, everything above the horizon is distorted as well. Not sure what your point is. RE'ers just rely on pseudo-scientific assertions to prove bizzare points...
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 27, 2010, 11:01:08 AM
(http://www.asiaphotohub.com/Jason/Images/2007pix/FishEye001xs.jpg)
(http://www.jasonhollister.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/polish2.jpg)

Notice how when you approach the edge of the fish eye lens the distortion increases, giving the illusion of a curved earth. That is what you are seeing. Also notice how for most of the center of the image, the fish eye effect is imperceptible.

I would even suggest that in the second picture there's a noticeable flattening effect in the center.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Thevoiceofreason on June 27, 2010, 12:06:59 PM
In my second picture, everything above the horizon is distorted as well. Not sure what your point is. RE'ers just rely on pseudo-scientific assertions to prove bizzare points...
You must be trolling.
bizzare points? so i guess anti-moon, burnt wood genetic engineering, thinking that an object in orbit will gain kinetic energy ad infinitum, the black hole in front of the moon, the harmful moonlight, and all the other BS that's been spouted is not bizzare. Wow even Gene Ray would think this is crazy
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: PizzaPlanet on June 27, 2010, 02:04:04 PM
Gene Ray
You bring the time cube up way too often.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Ellipsis on June 27, 2010, 03:41:44 PM
(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2958/part1z.png)

(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9696/part2m.png)

(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7322/part3u.png)

(http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/9090/part4b.png)

(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1548/part5x.png)
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: PizzaPlanet on June 27, 2010, 03:49:57 PM
The shape of the lens you assumed makes no sense to begin with.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Ellipsis on June 27, 2010, 03:52:24 PM
Which you'll read is one of my points.  A bulge (which Levee claims from the differing air pressures) wouldn't create such an effect at all, but even if it did we wouldn't observe what we do.  He's doubly wrong.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: PizzaPlanet on June 27, 2010, 03:58:03 PM
I'm not exactly a supporter of this idea, but if you placed the bulge below the line of sight and left the half of the window above it flat, it could work.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Ellipsis on June 27, 2010, 04:03:37 PM
True, though that wouldn't explain why people with upward-facing windows never report any strangely upward-curving horizon, and still leaves the problem of why there isn't any distortion (which would be plainly evident) when the plane leans into turns.
(http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/12065/12065,1155745351,3/stock-photo-airplane-windows-1693217.jpg)
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 27, 2010, 04:50:29 PM
I'm not exactly a supporter of this idea, but if you placed the bulge below the line of sight and left the half of the window above it flat, it could work.
Glass and the materials used in making airplane windows are viscous liquids, and over time the slight bulge below the line of sight you described occurs in windows. If you had a brand new airplane window, chances are the earth would appear flat. This effect is easily observable when you look at old glass windows.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Lorddave on June 27, 2010, 04:54:20 PM
I can attest:
There is no visible distortions from airplane windows.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Ellipsis on June 27, 2010, 05:03:28 PM
Unfortunately, the flowing rate of glass is so slow you'd need 10 million years for any perceptible change at all.  ::)
Also, the fact that the Earth still demonstrates that curve in new airplanes is detrimental to the FE argument here.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 27, 2010, 05:08:01 PM
Unfortunately, the flowing rate of glass is so slow you'd need 10 million years for any perceptible change at all.  ::)
Also, the fact that the Earth still demonstrates that curve in new airplanes is detrimental to the FE argument here.
This is not correct information. Old vertical glass sheets are visibly thicker at the base than they are at the top.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Ellipsis on June 27, 2010, 05:13:21 PM
This is not correct information. Old vertical glass sheets are visibly thicker at the base than they are at the top.

No, those imperfections are due to old glassblowing techniques of the time.  In a Science News Magazine, June 1999, the time estimation was made by Yvonne Stokes of the University of Adelaide, who reported it in the Proceedings of the Royal Society the following month.  It's also not very relevant anyway, considering passenger airplane windows aren't glass in the first place.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 27, 2010, 05:28:36 PM
I can attest:
There is no visible distortions from airplane windows.
Proof or go home.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 27, 2010, 05:31:55 PM
This is not correct information. Old vertical glass sheets are visibly thicker at the base than they are at the top.

No, those imperfections are due to old glassblowing techniques of the time.  In a Science News Magazine, June 1999, the time estimation was made by Yvonne Stokes of the University of Adelaide, who reported it in the Proceedings of the Royal Society the following month.  It's also not very relevant anyway, considering passenger airplane windows aren't glass in the first place.
Glass is part of window.

Yvonne Spokes is part of the conspiracy, the Royal Society is a propaganda machine.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Thevoiceofreason on June 27, 2010, 05:40:24 PM
This is not correct information. Old vertical glass sheets are visibly thicker at the base than they are at the top.

No, those imperfections are due to old glassblowing techniques of the time.  In a Science News Magazine, June 1999, the time estimation was made by Yvonne Stokes of the University of Adelaide, who reported it in the Proceedings of the Royal Society the following month.  It's also not very relevant anyway, considering passenger airplane windows aren't glass in the first place.
Glass is part of window.

Yvonne Spokes is part of the conspiracy, the Royal Society is a propaganda machine.

Step one: Deny everything.
check
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Ellipsis on June 27, 2010, 05:50:55 PM
Sadly, that's the best they can do.   :-\

"Here's some evidence to back up my claims.  What do you have to refute it?"
"It's all propaganda and conspiracy!  My tin foil hat itches!"

Also:

Yvonne Spokes is part of the conspiracy, the Royal Society is a propaganda machine.

In your own words:

Proof or go home.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Lorddave on June 27, 2010, 06:41:46 PM
I can attest:
There is no visible distortions from airplane windows.
Proof or go home.

Ok.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v303/Lord_dave/?action=view&current=IMG_0204.jpg

Picture of Norway's landscape, taken from about 35,000 feet early in the Morning, local time.  In fact, that shot was taken about an hour after sunrise.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on June 27, 2010, 07:37:30 PM
Johannes, prove to me that the windows even bend.  Fly in to KBJC and we will take the Citation up for you to have a look see.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Ellipsis on June 27, 2010, 08:02:59 PM
I'm still a little disappointed with the "it's all a conspiracy" thing Jo pulled after he was shown to be wrong.
Boy, this conspiracy sure covered all its bases!  They even manipulated data on the properties of glass.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 27, 2010, 08:11:44 PM
I'm still a little disappointed with the "it's all a conspiracy" thing Jo pulled after he was shown to be wrong.
Boy, this conspiracy sure covered all its bases!  They even manipulated data on the properties of glass.
There are other materials in the glass that could flow to great a bulge. There could be inherent window manufacturing flaws that create imperfections in the windows that lead to the bulge.

It is also possible that the atmolayer is convex, creating the illusion of a curved horizon.

The major air travel sites do not recognize KBJC, or BJC, so it is unlikely I will be able to meet you there EireEngineer.

What needs to be done is someone to inspect a commercial airliner, unfortunately, not many companies will let a FE'er inspect a multi-million dollar investment to prove the earth is flat.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Ellipsis on June 27, 2010, 08:31:35 PM
There are other materials in the glass that could flow to great a bulge.

Straw 1.  Have any evidence?

There could be inherent window manufacturing flaws that create imperfections in the windows that lead to the bulge.

Straw 2.  In every single window of every single passenger plane?  Evidence?

It is also possible that the atmolayer is convex, creating the illusion of a curved horizon.

Straw 3.  Evidence?

Well, since you've grasped at all of them with sheer conjecture and have pretty much given up on actually demonstrating or proposing anything substantial, I have one more question; could you please explain to me why I felt no bend in the window whatsoever in either time I've flown across the Atlantic?  Your "convex atmolayer" thing seems to be all that's left, but you've yet to back it up or even explain the principle behind how it could be functional.  I already destroyed the trolling OP.  The least an FEer could do here is come up with an alternative.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 27, 2010, 09:16:10 PM
You "felt" no bending?

Highly viscous liquids still flow... I am not making this up...

It is quite common for manufacturing processes to have error tolerances of a few millimeters. Ask an industrial engineer.

Some flat earthers here say that the atomolayer is a dome. This would certainly account for above cloud level pictures of the horizon showing a curve horizon.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Ellipsis on June 27, 2010, 09:30:41 PM
You "felt" no bending?

That's right.  I put my hand against the window and felt no bend.  I didn't see one either.

Highly viscous liquids still flow... I am not making this up...

I'm not arguing against that.  What I argued against was Levee's idea that plane windows bending due to air pressure was the cause for an apparently curved horizon, which failed on multiple levels.

Some flat earthers here say that the atomolayer is a dome. This would certainly account for above cloud level pictures of the horizon showing a curve horizon.

Some flat earthers say the moon is alive.  It's a fun story, but until there's something to back it up, that's all it is.  If someone can show how a dome-shaped atmosphere would affect the path of light from numerous directions, they're in business, though still with most of their work still ahead of them.  Until they can make consistent accurate predictions that stand to scrutiny, a story is all it will be.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: markjo on June 27, 2010, 10:29:21 PM
It is quite common for manufacturing processes to have error tolerances of a few millimeters.

Not in the aerospace industry. 

Ask an industrial engineer.

Better yet, ask an aerospace engineer.  Unless you suspect that they may be in on the conspiracy.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 27, 2010, 10:38:00 PM
It is quite common for manufacturing processes to have error tolerances of a few millimeters.

Not in the aerospace industry. 

Ask an industrial engineer.

Better yet, ask an aerospace engineer.  Unless you suspect that they may be in on the conspiracy.
Are you an aerospace engineer?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on June 27, 2010, 10:44:09 PM


It is quite common for manufacturing processes to have error tolerances of a few millimeters. Ask an industrial engineer.



A few milimeters....no. Not these days. This is why my QC people have micrometers and calipers....because we look for errors measured in tenths and hundredths of millimeters, and all we are making are electronics.  Aviation grade machining is far more accurate than almost any other industry, because it has to be.

Oh, and if you cant figure out how to take a cab from DIA to Jeffco airport, you really cant be taken seriously.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 28, 2010, 04:41:18 AM
Glass is part of window.

Plane window is not glass.
Plane window is not lens.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on June 28, 2010, 04:49:52 AM
Let's examine the "bowing hypothesis".

Bowing Hypothesis (BH): The bowing of the vehicle due to atmospheric pressure effects causes the curvation of the horizon seen at high altitudes.

Alternative Earth-as-Sphere Hypothesis (EaSH): The spherical nature of the Earth causes the curvature.

Consider these three points:
1) The curvature is constistent in direction, with edges down and central area up. The BH fails to predict this. The EaSH does.
2) The curvature increases in a calculable and consistent way with altitude. The bowing hypothesis fails to predict this as well. The EaSH does.
3) Cameras not in a pressurized vessel consistently record on private and government ballons, various nation's space projects, and even private space launches. The BH in no way predicts these observations. The EaSH does.

Hence, I for parsimony and predictive results accept EaS hypothesis over the bowing hypothesis.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: markjo on June 28, 2010, 06:40:29 AM
It is quite common for manufacturing processes to have error tolerances of a few millimeters.

Not in the aerospace industry. 

Ask an industrial engineer.

Better yet, ask an aerospace engineer.  Unless you suspect that they may be in on the conspiracy.
Are you an aerospace engineer?
Are you?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: d00gz on June 28, 2010, 06:50:48 AM
It is quite common for manufacturing processes to have error tolerances of a few millimeters.

Not in the aerospace industry. 

Ask an industrial engineer.

Better yet, ask an aerospace engineer.  Unless you suspect that they may be in on the conspiracy.
Are you an aerospace engineer?
Are you?

A good friend of mine is. But he's not an idiot, therefore he thinks FE is nonsense.

So he'll tell you the truth, but being FE'ers, you won't like it, and will therefore proclaim him to be a liar.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: The Question1 on June 28, 2010, 10:32:24 AM
I'm still a little disappointed with the "it's all a conspiracy" thing Jo pulled after he was shown to be wrong.
Boy, this conspiracy sure covered all its bases!  They even manipulated data on the properties of glass.
I take it this is your first encounter with Johannes?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: General Disarray on June 28, 2010, 10:36:46 AM
I'm still a little disappointed with the "it's all a conspiracy" thing Jo pulled after he was shown to be wrong.
Boy, this conspiracy sure covered all its bases!  They even manipulated data on the properties of glass.
I take it this is your first encounter with Johannes?

Johannes is terrible.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: The Question1 on June 28, 2010, 10:43:49 AM
I'm still a little disappointed with the "it's all a conspiracy" thing Jo pulled after he was shown to be wrong.
Boy, this conspiracy sure covered all its bases!  They even manipulated data on the properties of glass.
I take it this is your first encounter with Johannes?

Johannes is terrible.
Just terrible.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: three-dimensional-world on June 28, 2010, 10:48:54 AM
just a guess but it could be something to do with the curvature of space?  >:(
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: markjo on June 28, 2010, 11:06:43 AM
Johannes is terrible.
Just terrible.
He really is.  But that's beside the point, irrelevant and off topic.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 28, 2010, 12:56:42 PM
Glass is part of window.

Plane window is not glass.
Plane window is not lens.
Source?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on June 28, 2010, 01:10:46 PM
Glass is part of window.

Plane window is not glass.
Plane window is not lens.
Source?
Did you mean for us to provide the source for your claim that "Glass is part of window."? I'll assume that you can back up your claim. To speed things up though, here's a reference with citation that opposes your claim: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_materials_are_used_to_make_airplane_windows (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_materials_are_used_to_make_airplane_windows)


Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 28, 2010, 01:55:23 PM
Glass is part of window.

Plane window is not glass.
Plane window is not lens.
Source?
Did you mean for us to provide the source for your claim that "Glass is part of window."? I'll assume that you can back up your claim. To speed things up though, here's a reference with citation that opposes your claim: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_materials_are_used_to_make_airplane_windows (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_materials_are_used_to_make_airplane_windows)



Use google, you will see glass is part of most airplane window deployments.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on June 28, 2010, 02:58:01 PM
Glass is part of window.

Plane window is not glass.
Plane window is not lens.
Source?
Did you mean for us to provide the source for your claim that "Glass is part of window."? I'll assume that you can back up your claim. To speed things up though, here's a reference with citation that opposes your claim: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_materials_are_used_to_make_airplane_windows (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_materials_are_used_to_make_airplane_windows)
Use google, you will see glass is part of most airplane window deployments.
I use Google regularly. I don’t see anything to substantiate your claim. Do you have a source or not?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 28, 2010, 03:16:33 PM
Glass is part of window.

Plane window is not glass.
Plane window is not lens.
Source?
Did you mean for us to provide the source for your claim that "Glass is part of window."? I'll assume that you can back up your claim. To speed things up though, here's a reference with citation that opposes your claim: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_materials_are_used_to_make_airplane_windows (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_materials_are_used_to_make_airplane_windows)
Use google, you will see glass is part of most airplane window deployments.
I use Google regularly. I don’t see anything to substantiate your claim. Do you have a source or not?

Yeah, http://tinyurl.com/2e729ph
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on June 28, 2010, 03:39:19 PM
Glass is part of window.

Plane window is not glass.
Plane window is not lens.
Source?
Did you mean for us to provide the source for your claim that "Glass is part of window."? I'll assume that you can back up your claim. To speed things up though, here's a reference with citation that opposes your claim: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_materials_are_used_to_make_airplane_windows (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_materials_are_used_to_make_airplane_windows)
Use google, you will see glass is part of most airplane window deployments.
I use Google regularly. I don’t see anything to substantiate your claim. Do you have a source or not?

Yeah, http://tinyurl.com/2e729ph
That was so funny!  :D The first hit was the source I gave that disproves your point. Maybe you should try reading what you find with Google—Just an idea!
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: PizzaPlanet on June 28, 2010, 03:58:02 PM
Glass is part of window.

Plane window is not glass.
Plane window is not lens.
Source?
Did you mean for us to provide the source for your claim that "Glass is part of window."? I'll assume that you can back up your claim. To speed things up though, here's a reference with citation that opposes your claim: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_materials_are_used_to_make_airplane_windows (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_materials_are_used_to_make_airplane_windows)
Use google, you will see glass is part of most airplane window deployments.
I use Google regularly. I don’t see anything to substantiate your claim. Do you have a source or not?

Yeah, http://tinyurl.com/2e729ph
That was so funny!  :D The first hit was the source I gave that disproves your point. Maybe you should try reading what you find with Google—Just an idea!

Quote
Jet airliner cabin windows are usually acrylic, and consist of three layers of material for redundancy and safety. Cockpit windows (which run the risk of bird strikes, hail, etc.) are made of multiple layers of glass and plastic, bonded together and with a heating element inside them to prevent ice from obscuring the view. Usually they are also coated on the outside with a material to help shed rain in flight (as the substance that used to be sprayed on them was banned about 15 years ago as an ozone-depleting substance).
Hmh.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on June 28, 2010, 04:13:27 PM
Glass is part of window.

Plane window is not glass.
Plane window is not lens.
Source?
Did you mean for us to provide the source for your claim that "Glass is part of window."? I'll assume that you can back up your claim. To speed things up though, here's a reference with citation that opposes your claim: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_materials_are_used_to_make_airplane_windows (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_materials_are_used_to_make_airplane_windows)
Use google, you will see glass is part of most airplane window deployments.
I use Google regularly. I don’t see anything to substantiate your claim. Do you have a source or not?

Yeah, http://tinyurl.com/2e729ph
That was so funny!  :D The first hit was the source I gave that disproves your point. Maybe you should try reading what you find with Google—Just an idea!

Quote
Jet airliner cabin windows are usually acrylic, and consist of three layers of material for redundancy and safety. Cockpit windows (which run the risk of bird strikes, hail, etc.) are made of multiple layers of glass and plastic, bonded together and with a heating element inside them to prevent ice from obscuring the view. Usually they are also coated on the outside with a material to help shed rain in flight (as the substance that used to be sprayed on them was banned about 15 years ago as an ozone-depleting substance).
Hmh.
You are not paying attention, sigh. How does anything in your quote above lead you to J’s claim: “glass is part of most airplane window deployments.”?
Your quote says the opposite: “Jet airliner cabin windows are usually acrylic.”


Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 28, 2010, 06:20:26 PM
You are not paying attention, sigh. How does anything in your quote above lead you to J’s claim: “glass is part of most airplane window deployments.”?
Your quote says the opposite: “Jet airliner cabin windows are usually acrylic.”

It was such a short reply, did you really have to copypaste it and turn it into such a headache-inducing eyesore?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on June 28, 2010, 06:26:27 PM
You are not paying attention, sigh. How does anything in your quote above lead you to J’s claim: “glass is part of most airplane window deployments.”?
Your quote says the opposite: “Jet airliner cabin windows are usually acrylic.”

It was such a short reply, did you really have to copypaste it and turn it into such a headache-inducing eyesore?
If you're not going to contribute to the debate, did you really have to post at all? What's next? Grammar? What octave you whine best at?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: PizzaPlanet on June 28, 2010, 06:27:58 PM
You are not paying attention, sigh. How does anything in your quote above lead you to J’s claim: “glass is part of most airplane window deployments.”?
Your quote says the opposite: “Jet airliner cabin windows are usually acrylic.”

It was such a short reply, did you really have to copypaste it and turn it into such a headache-inducing eyesore?
If you're not going to contribute to the debate, did you really have to post at all? What's next? Grammar? What octave you whine best at?
Ugh, you really messed the tenses up there.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on June 28, 2010, 06:31:32 PM
You are not paying attention, sigh. How does anything in your quote above lead you to J’s claim: “glass is part of most airplane window deployments.”?
Your quote says the opposite: “Jet airliner cabin windows are usually acrylic.”

It was such a short reply, did you really have to copypaste it and turn it into such a headache-inducing eyesore?
If you're not going to contribute to the debate, did you really have to post at all? What's next? Grammar? What octave you whine best at?
Ugh, you really messed the tenses up there.
Thanks for proving my point. It's so good to have a wingman like you!
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: PizzaPlanet on June 28, 2010, 06:35:25 PM
You are not paying attention, sigh. How does anything in your quote above lead you to J’s claim: “glass is part of most airplane window deployments.”?
Your quote says the opposite: “Jet airliner cabin windows are usually acrylic.”

It was such a short reply, did you really have to copypaste it and turn it into such a headache-inducing eyesore?
If you're not going to contribute to the debate, did you really have to post at all? What's next? Grammar? What octave you whine best at?
Ugh, you really messed the tenses up there.
Thanks for proving my point. It's so good to have a wingman like you!
Hmh. I guess you didn't get it. Oh well.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on June 28, 2010, 09:01:20 PM
Not to point out the obvious to all you in the "too dense and opinionated to do research", but this thread has turned quite patheti-sad.  I did a quick check in the POH on my plane, and the windows are Lexan. Checked into a few airliners....Lexan and  polycarbonate, with reinforced housings seems to be the norm.  They sooooo do not use "glass" as the term is traditionally used.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 28, 2010, 11:19:16 PM
Not to point out the obvious to all you in the "too dense and opinionated to do research", but this thread has turned quite patheti-sad.  I did a quick check in the POH on my plane, and the windows are Lexan. Checked into a few airliners....Lexan and  polycarbonate, with reinforced housings seems to be the norm.  They sooooo do not use "glass" as the term is traditionally used.
Thank you EireEngineer for confirming what brother Pongo has been saying.

The windows are less rigid than glass, thus bend out, creating the curvature illusion.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on June 29, 2010, 12:02:19 AM
Not to point out the obvious to all you in the "too dense and opinionated to do research", but this thread has turned quite patheti-sad.  I did a quick check in the POH on my plane, and the windows are Lexan. Checked into a few airliners....Lexan and  polycarbonate, with reinforced housings seems to be the norm.  They sooooo do not use "glass" as the term is traditionally used.
Thank you EireEngineer for confirming what brother Pongo has been saying.

The windows are less rigid than glass, thus bend out, creating the curvature illusion.
Evidence or source? How is it that bending out creates the curvature illusion? Perhaps we can avoid your lack of research sooner this time?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: d00gz on June 29, 2010, 01:56:41 AM
Not to point out the obvious to all you in the "too dense and opinionated to do research", but this thread has turned quite patheti-sad.  I did a quick check in the POH on my plane, and the windows are Lexan. Checked into a few airliners....Lexan and  polycarbonate, with reinforced housings seems to be the norm.  They sooooo do not use "glass" as the term is traditionally used.
Thank you EireEngineer for confirming what brother Pongo has been saying.

The windows are less rigid than glass, thus bend out, creating the curvature illusion.

He didn't say that, it's not true, and you can't prove that it is.

You lose.

Try harder next time.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on June 29, 2010, 08:33:11 AM
You are not paying attention, sigh. How does anything in your quote above lead you to J’s claim: “glass is part of most airplane window deployments.”?
Your quote says the opposite: “Jet airliner cabin windows are usually acrylic.”

It was such a short reply, did you really have to copypaste it and turn it into such a headache-inducing eyesore?

What, like what you do in your (over) 16000 posts?

How was his reply a "headache-inducing eyesore"? Is your level of reading comprehension really so low? Three sentences with two clearly marked qoutes and you have trouble reading it without getting your eyes all sore?

Then you most likely have a problem that can be resolved with one of the links below:

http://www.rif.org/
or
http://www.specsavers.co.uk/
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on June 29, 2010, 09:33:50 AM
Not to point out the obvious to all you in the "too dense and opinionated to do research", but this thread has turned quite patheti-sad.  I did a quick check in the POH on my plane, and the windows are Lexan. Checked into a few airliners....Lexan and  polycarbonate, with reinforced housings seems to be the norm.  They sooooo do not use "glass" as the term is traditionally used.
Thank you EireEngineer for confirming what brother Pongo has been saying.

The windows are less rigid than glass, thus bend out, creating the curvature illusion.
Wow, way to mis-interpret to try to prop up your weak position? Layered lexan and polycarbonate are far more rigid and stronger than glass is.  They dont bow with pressure. If they did, even a little, you would have the Comet window problem all over again. Flexing and bowing cause micro cracks which would degrade the integrity of the window surface.  Face it, you lost and your idea is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 29, 2010, 10:13:06 AM
The windows are less rigid than glass, thus bend out, creating the curvature illusion.

You still don't get it do you? I'm amazed that you can keep up this amount of retardation.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 29, 2010, 12:44:31 PM
Not to point out the obvious to all you in the "too dense and opinionated to do research", but this thread has turned quite patheti-sad.  I did a quick check in the POH on my plane, and the windows are Lexan. Checked into a few airliners....Lexan and  polycarbonate, with reinforced housings seems to be the norm.  They sooooo do not use "glass" as the term is traditionally used.
Thank you EireEngineer for confirming what brother Pongo has been saying.

The windows are less rigid than glass, thus bend out, creating the curvature illusion.
Wow, way to mis-interpret to try to prop up your weak position? Layered lexan and polycarbonate are far more rigid and stronger than glass is.  They dont bow with pressure. If they did, even a little, you would have the Comet window problem all over again. Flexing and bowing cause micro cracks which would degrade the integrity of the window surface.  Face it, you lost and your idea is ridiculous.
Sorry, I meant laminated glass-polycarbonate windows. I am aware that airplanes do not use pure glass for windows, as I have never been aboard an airliner that has pure glass windows.... I need to do more research before I continue this debate.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: markjo on June 29, 2010, 12:49:17 PM
Not to point out the obvious to all you in the "too dense and opinionated to do research", but this thread has turned quite patheti-sad.  I did a quick check in the POH on my plane, and the windows are Lexan. Checked into a few airliners....Lexan and  polycarbonate, with reinforced housings seems to be the norm.  They sooooo do not use "glass" as the term is traditionally used.
Thank you EireEngineer for confirming what brother Pongo has been saying.

The windows are less rigid than glass, thus bend out, creating the curvature illusion.
Wow, way to mis-interpret to try to prop up your weak position? Layered lexan and polycarbonate are far more rigid and stronger than glass is.  They dont bow with pressure. If they did, even a little, you would have the Comet window problem all over again. Flexing and bowing cause micro cracks which would degrade the integrity of the window surface.  Face it, you lost and your idea is ridiculous.
Sorry, I meant laminated glass-polycarbonate windows. I am aware that airplanes do not use pure glass for windows, as I have never been aboard an airliner that has pure glass windows.... I need to do more research before I continue this debate.
You may also want to ponder the notion that since much flying is still done visually, optical distortion from windows is something that you generally want to avoid.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 29, 2010, 01:28:17 PM
Not to point out the obvious to all you in the "too dense and opinionated to do research", but this thread has turned quite patheti-sad.  I did a quick check in the POH on my plane, and the windows are Lexan. Checked into a few airliners....Lexan and  polycarbonate, with reinforced housings seems to be the norm.  They sooooo do not use "glass" as the term is traditionally used.
Thank you EireEngineer for confirming what brother Pongo has been saying.

The windows are less rigid than glass, thus bend out, creating the curvature illusion.
Wow, way to mis-interpret to try to prop up your weak position? Layered lexan and polycarbonate are far more rigid and stronger than glass is.  They dont bow with pressure. If they did, even a little, you would have the Comet window problem all over again. Flexing and bowing cause micro cracks which would degrade the integrity of the window surface.  Face it, you lost and your idea is ridiculous.
Sorry, I meant laminated glass-polycarbonate windows. I am aware that airplanes do not use pure glass for windows, as I have never been aboard an airliner that has pure glass windows.... I need to do more research before I continue this debate.
You may also want to ponder the notion that since much flying is still done visually, optical distortion from windows is something that you generally want to avoid.
Pilots are members of the conspiracy, so it doesn't matter if the cockpit window isn't distorted.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on June 29, 2010, 01:31:01 PM
Not to point out the obvious to all you in the "too dense and opinionated to do research", but this thread has turned quite patheti-sad.  I did a quick check in the POH on my plane, and the windows are Lexan. Checked into a few airliners....Lexan and  polycarbonate, with reinforced housings seems to be the norm.  They sooooo do not use "glass" as the term is traditionally used.
Thank you EireEngineer for confirming what brother Pongo has been saying.

The windows are less rigid than glass, thus bend out, creating the curvature illusion.
Wow, way to mis-interpret to try to prop up your weak position? Layered lexan and polycarbonate are far more rigid and stronger than glass is.  They dont bow with pressure. If they did, even a little, you would have the Comet window problem all over again. Flexing and bowing cause micro cracks which would degrade the integrity of the window surface.  Face it, you lost and your idea is ridiculous.
Sorry, I meant laminated glass-polycarbonate windows. I am aware that airplanes do not use pure glass for windows, as I have never been aboard an airliner that has pure glass windows.... I need to do more research before I continue this debate.
You may also want to ponder the notion that since much flying is still done visually, optical distortion from windows is something that you generally want to avoid.
Pilots are members of the conspiracy, so it doesn't matter if the cockpit window isn't distorted.
Soon the conspiracy will have so many people involved it will need its own conspiracy to fund it.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 29, 2010, 01:33:58 PM
Pilots are members of the conspiracy, so it doesn't matter if the cockpit window isn't distorted.

Conspiracy or not, they still need to be able to see properly.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on June 29, 2010, 02:08:54 PM
Pilots are members of the conspiracy, so it doesn't matter if the cockpit window isn't distorted.

Conspiracy or not, they still need to be able to see properly.

They can see properly. They are already using genetically modified birds to pull their planes, so they would obviously use genetically enhanced humans to pilot them. These "humans" would have no issue seeing through the distortion.


Another Flat Earth Victory!!!
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on June 29, 2010, 02:12:32 PM
Pilots are members of the conspiracy, so it doesn't matter if the cockpit window isn't distorted.

Conspiracy or not, they still need to be able to see properly.

They can see properly. They are already using genetically modified birds to pull their planes, so they would obviously use genetically enhanced humans to pilot them. These "humans" would have no issue seeing through the distortion.


Another Flat Earth troll Victory!!!

Fix'd
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 29, 2010, 02:13:05 PM
These "humans" would have no issue seeing through the distortion.

They probably have their eye's lenses removed, and a glass. plastic mix inserted instead. Effectively the planes windows become the eyes lens, focusing light onto the retina.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on June 29, 2010, 02:21:50 PM
These "humans" would have no issue seeing through the distortion.

They probably have their eye's lenses removed, and a glass. plastic mix inserted instead. Effectively the planes windows become the eyes lens, focusing light onto the retina.

Good call. This would would be the reason why none of the pilots have ever seen the birds before. They can only see when they are flying the plane, they are blind while they are not. It would also explain why the companies do not allow the pilots fly during rainstorms as the water could change the magnification in spots and impair their ability to fly.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on June 29, 2010, 02:24:37 PM
Pilots are members of the conspiracy, so it doesn't matter if the cockpit window isn't distorted.

Conspiracy or not, they still need to be able to see properly.
Actually, today autopilot is (allegedly) so good that it is often safer to have the computer do the flying. Of course, this makes it much easier for the conspiracy to control things.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on June 29, 2010, 02:27:01 PM
Pilots are members of the conspiracy, so it doesn't matter if the cockpit window isn't distorted.

Conspiracy or not, they still need to be able to see properly.

They can see properly. They are already using genetically modified birds to pull their planes, so they would obviously use genetically enhanced humans to pilot them. These "humans" would have no issue seeing through the distortion.


Another Flat Earth troll Victory!!!

Fix'd

Does that imply that I am trolling AND correct in my claim? If so, I accept.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 29, 2010, 02:30:45 PM
Good call. This would would be the reason why none of the pilots have ever seen the birds before.

It would make them easier to control too. This is why when I stayed at an expensive hotel I saw an Italian pilot getting escorted back to his room by a woman in a short tight skirt and revealing top. She was probably his minder from the Conspuracy.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on June 29, 2010, 02:32:12 PM
What about fighter-jets? :(
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 29, 2010, 02:35:40 PM
What about fighter-jets? :(

They have different prostitutes for the air force.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 29, 2010, 02:45:52 PM
You are not paying attention, sigh. How does anything in your quote above lead you to J?s claim: ?glass is part of most airplane window deployments.??
Your quote says the opposite: ?Jet airliner cabin windows are usually acrylic.?

It was such a short reply, did you really have to copypaste it and turn it into such a headache-inducing eyesore?

What, like what you do in your (over) 16000 posts?

I never copypaste.  I consider it rude to do so because it looks like shit, like that post I quoted.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on June 29, 2010, 02:48:07 PM
Good call. This would would be the reason why none of the pilots have ever seen the birds before.

It would make them easier to control too. This is why when I stayed at an expensive hotel I saw an Italian pilot getting escorted back to his room by a woman in a short tight skirt and revealing top. She was probably his minder from the Conspuracy.

What about fighter-jets? :(

They have different prostitutes for the air force.

Maybe that woman was a jet fighter pilot?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Crustinator on June 29, 2010, 02:49:24 PM
Maybe that woman was a jet fighter?

She was fighting something in that room.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: markjo on June 29, 2010, 02:50:30 PM
Pilots are members of the conspiracy, so it doesn't matter if the cockpit window isn't distorted.

Conspiracy or not, they still need to be able to see properly.
Actually, today autopilot is (allegedly) so good that it is often safer to have the computer do the flying. Of course, this makes it much easier for the conspiracy to control things.
And what about the 50 or so years of commercial aviation before that?  Didn't pilots need to see the runway to land in the 1970s?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on June 29, 2010, 02:51:27 PM
Pilots are members of the conspiracy, so it doesn't matter if the cockpit window isn't distorted.

Conspiracy or not, they still need to be able to see properly.
Actually, today autopilot is (allegedly) so good that it is often safer to have the computer do the flying. Of course, this makes it much easier for the conspiracy to control things.
And what about the 50 or so years of commercial aviation before that?  Didn't pilots need to see the runway to land in the 1970s?

See my post about genetic modification.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on June 29, 2010, 09:22:50 PM
Pilots are members of the conspiracy, so it doesn't matter if the cockpit window isn't distorted.

Conspiracy or not, they still need to be able to see properly.
Actually, today autopilot is (allegedly) so good that it is often safer to have the computer do the flying. Of course, this makes it much easier for the conspiracy to control things.
You certainly have the laymans opinion of the Autopilot.  Autopilots really do make flying far safer. When you fly, there are dozens of things that divide the pilots attention, and the autopilot removes several of them. Namely, holding a course and altitude. However, dont delude yourself into thinking that the pilot is not ultimately in control of the aircraft.  It wasnt the autopilots fault that that SW airplane overshot Minneapolis after all.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 01, 2010, 07:58:02 AM
I was on a plane yesterday, and I made sure to look at the windows. I wanted to post this while on the plane but you get no service up there.  :(

They seemed to have some of distortion at the edges and minimal at the middle.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: zork on July 01, 2010, 11:43:31 AM
Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

  They can also read paper Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth (http://thulescientific.com/Lynch Curvature 2008.pdf) before going on the plane and educate their kids basing on that.
educate their kids and read before
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on July 03, 2010, 06:15:03 PM
Went for a flight this morning, and I can see the curvature just fine. Angie had a good idea. We can depressurize the cabin, and take a look out the passenger way. Of course it will be breaking a few FAA rules, but what they dont see wont hurt us.  Gotta replace the emergency oxy once in awhile anyway, so this will be a cheap test.  So, the next time one of you FETs is in Denver, you will have to stop by and go for a flight.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 03, 2010, 07:45:31 PM
Went for a flight this morning, and I can see the curvature just fine. Angie had a good idea. We can depressurize the cabin, and take a look out the passenger way. Of course it will be breaking a few FAA rules, but what they dont see wont hurt us.  Gotta replace the emergency oxy once in awhile anyway, so this will be a cheap test.  So, the next time one of you FETs is in Denver, you will have to stop by and go for a flight.
What altitude were you at when you saw the curvature?

Did you take a picture?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on July 03, 2010, 07:53:16 PM
Went for a flight this morning, and I can see the curvature just fine. Angie had a good idea. We can depressurize the cabin, and take a look out the passenger way. Of course it will be breaking a few FAA rules, but what they dont see wont hurt us.  Gotta replace the emergency oxy once in awhile anyway, so this will be a cheap test.  So, the next time one of you FETs is in Denver, you will have to stop by and go for a flight.
What altitude were you at when you saw the curvature?

Did you take a picture?
Like you would accept a picture as evidence. That is why you need to hang your head out with nothing but goggles to distort your view.

And winds were favorable aloft today at 460, so that was where we stayed.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 03, 2010, 08:38:59 PM
Went for a flight this morning, and I can see the curvature just fine. Angie had a good idea. We can depressurize the cabin, and take a look out the passenger way. Of course it will be breaking a few FAA rules, but what they dont see wont hurt us.  Gotta replace the emergency oxy once in awhile anyway, so this will be a cheap test.  So, the next time one of you FETs is in Denver, you will have to stop by and go for a flight.
What altitude were you at when you saw the curvature?

Did you take a picture?
Like you would accept a picture as evidence. That is why you need to hang your head out with nothing but goggles to distort your view.

And winds were favorable aloft today at 460, so that was where we stayed.
460? Units please.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on July 04, 2010, 02:15:39 AM
Went for a flight this morning, and I can see the curvature just fine. Angie had a good idea. We can depressurize the cabin, and take a look out the passenger way. Of course it will be breaking a few FAA rules, but what they dont see wont hurt us.  Gotta replace the emergency oxy once in awhile anyway, so this will be a cheap test.  So, the next time one of you FETs is in Denver, you will have to stop by and go for a flight.
What altitude were you at when you saw the curvature?

Did you take a picture?
Like you would accept a picture as evidence. That is why you need to hang your head out with nothing but goggles to distort your view.

And winds were favorable aloft today at 460, so that was where we stayed.
460? Units please.

Lightyears, obviously..... -.-
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on July 04, 2010, 02:17:32 AM
Sorry if that seemed rude, but people need to read before posting (google is cool you know)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_level
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: markjo on July 04, 2010, 07:14:19 AM
Sorry if that seemed rude, but people need to read before posting (google is cool you know)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_level

Then he should have said FL460.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on July 04, 2010, 07:19:06 AM
You are correct.  Sorry, when I type fast the technical jargon doesnt get filtered out.  46,000 Ft Above Mean Sea Level.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: markjo on July 04, 2010, 07:21:48 AM
You are correct.  Sorry, when I type fast the technical jargon doesnt get filtered out.  46,000 Ft Above Mean Sea Level.

Actually, Flight Level refers to pressure altitude, not true altitude:
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_level
A Flight Level (FL) is a standard nominal altitude  of an aircraft, in hundreds of feet. This altitude is calculated from the International standard pressure datum of 1013.25 hPa (29.92 inHg), the average sea-level pressure, and therefore is not necessarily the same as the aircraft's true altitude either above mean sea level or above ground level.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on July 04, 2010, 07:25:26 AM
You are correct.  Sorry, when I type fast the technical jargon doesnt get filtered out.  46,000 Ft Above Mean Sea Level.

Actually, Flight Level refers to pressure altitude, not true altitude:
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_level
A Flight Level (FL) is a standard nominal altitude  of an aircraft, in hundreds of feet. This altitude is calculated from the International standard pressure datum of 1013.25 hPa (29.92 inHg), the average sea-level pressure, and therefore is not necessarily the same as the aircraft's true altitude either above mean sea level or above ground level.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on July 04, 2010, 08:45:56 AM
True, but if it is off, its not off by much.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: markjo on July 05, 2010, 10:28:43 AM
Barometric altitude can vary from true altitude by quite a bit depending on the weather.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on July 05, 2010, 05:11:19 PM
Which is why there is a knob for correcting for changes, based on data from the nearest weather station.   The system isnt perfect, but given the cost of effective radio altimeters, its about the best that we can get.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: WardoggKC130FE on July 07, 2010, 05:11:45 PM
Went for a flight this morning, and I can see the curvature just fine. Angie had a good idea. We can depressurize the cabin, and take a look out the passenger way. Of course it will be breaking a few FAA rules, but what they dont see wont hurt us.  Gotta replace the emergency oxy once in awhile anyway, so this will be a cheap test.  So, the next time one of you FETs is in Denver, you will have to stop by and go for a flight.
What altitude were you at when you saw the curvature?

Did you take a picture?
Like you would accept a picture as evidence. That is why you need to hang your head out with nothing but goggles to distort your view.

And winds were favorable aloft today at 460, so that was where we stayed.

You depresserized at 46k?   What aircraft?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on July 09, 2010, 07:30:03 AM
If you read at all closely, you would have seen that I never claimed we had done it yet, only that it was a possibility.  We checked the POH for the Citation X Wardog, and it certainly is possible, though there needs to be a bit of a mod made to the door to be able to open and close it again at that speed and altitude.  A citation has manually depressurized before with no ill effects to the aircraft, that time due to a faulty sensor. But its nothing that cant absolutely be done.  However, I think I may have found an even simpler and less risky way. I can just take a window of a flat earther's choosing, and attach a couple of these solid state flex sensors  I have to the inside and the outside of the window.  These can measure variations down to about .5mm, though I am sure there are more sensitive (and more expensive) options out there.  The microcontroller code and supporting electronics would be at the skill level of a hobbiest, so I will post a schematic once I test it out.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: dell on July 09, 2010, 11:41:21 AM
Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

Ok then, maybe explain how when i go down to my beach hut i can sea the curvature of the earth? or have you never been to the beach? because i'm pretty sure there's no glass to be bent by the seaside...

Ooooh unless the government has some theory where they have surrounded every coastline in flexi glass :O
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on July 09, 2010, 11:46:05 AM
Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

Ok then, maybe explain how when i go down to my beach hut i can sea the curvature of the earth? or have you never been to the beach? because i'm pretty sure there's no glass to be bent by the seaside...

Ooooh unless the government has some theory where they have surrounded every coastline in flexi glass :O

You can't see the curvature of the Earth from ground level.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EireEngineer on July 09, 2010, 12:12:31 PM
Well, you can, but they try to use bendy light to explain it, and say telescopes resolve the rest of the ship lol.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: dell on July 09, 2010, 12:18:51 PM
Here is something that everyone has seen many times.  A round-earth believer, or shape denier as I will call them from here on out, posts a pic from high altitude or makes the statement that in a plane you can see the curvature of the earth.  And indeed, the pictures of the shape deniers do look compelling.  However, it's all an optical illusion.

At ground level, if you look out the window of a plane every round-earth believer and every shape denier can agree that the earth looks flat.  However, at extreme altitudes, it appears that there is a curvature.  This is well documented and understood.  Now, a shape denier will point to this and ignorantly proclaim, "Ah hah!  We've got you!  Another win for RET!!!"  Seems like a solid claim on the surface, lets look deeper.

The traditional response to this is that they are seeing the outline of the sun's spotlight, and at very very high altitudes or close to dawn/dusk this is true.  However, some pictures are taken at noon, or at the center of the spotlight at altitudes that shouldn't show curvature.  So what's going on?

The real reason that the earth looks curved is due to air pressure.  In order to keep passengers and personnel comfortable, and alive, a plain must maintain a certain atmospheric pressure.  Once a plain gets so high, the pressure outside the fuselage is lower than it is on the inside.  This causes the windows to bow outwards and give objects in the distance a curved look.  As the horizon is the only thing viewable that spans the length of a window, and at a sufficiently far distance, it appears to be curved. 

This optical illusion has fooled many people the world over, but it will no longer deceive you!  The next time you are on an airliner and a kid points out the window claiming to see the curvature of the earth, you can educate him or her on what is really going on and hopefully open their eyes to truth of the shape of this flat earth.

Ok then, maybe explain how when i go down to my beach hut i can sea the curvature of the earth? or have you never been to the beach? because i'm pretty sure there's no glass to be bent by the seaside...

Ooooh unless the government has some theory where they have surrounded every coastline in flexi glass :O

You can't see the curvature of the Earth from ground level.

Im sorry... but come to my beachut and say that to me again.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on July 09, 2010, 12:36:56 PM
Im sorry... but come to my beachut and say that to me again.

No thanks, I've been to the beach before and verified it for myself.

Well, you can

No you can't.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: dell on July 09, 2010, 01:06:25 PM
Right here goes...

I will draw a sraight line on this photo so you can see the curvature for yourself :D

(http://images.travelpod.com/users/johnclaire/oz-07.1195222260.notice-the-curvature-of-the-earth.jpg)
EDIT I decided it was too obvious to need a straight line, this must have been a very clear day, on top of a very high cliff, it's not normally this noticable :)
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on July 09, 2010, 01:22:27 PM
Right here goes...

I will draw a sraight line on this photo so you can see the curvature for yourself :D

(http://images.travelpod.com/users/johnclaire/oz-07.1195222260.notice-the-curvature-of-the-earth.jpg)
EDIT I decided it was too obvious to need a straight line, this must have been a very clear day, on top of a very high cliff, it's not normally this noticable :)


No, I see no curvature at all.  You'd better draw that straight line.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: dell on July 09, 2010, 02:19:38 PM
Right here goes...

I will draw a sraight line on this photo so you can see the curvature for yourself :D

(http://images.travelpod.com/users/johnclaire/oz-07.1195222260.notice-the-curvature-of-the-earth.jpg)
EDIT I decided it was too obvious to need a straight line, this must have been a very clear day, on top of a very high cliff, it's not normally this noticable :)


Ruler maybe?? if you place it so it is level with the horizon on both ends, the dark blue rises over the ruler edge in the middle :)
No, I see no curvature at all.  You'd better draw that straight line.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on July 09, 2010, 02:23:38 PM
Right here goes...

I will draw a sraight line on this photo so you can see the curvature for yourself :D

(http://images.travelpod.com/users/johnclaire/oz-07.1195222260.notice-the-curvature-of-the-earth.jpg)
EDIT I decided it was too obvious to need a straight line, this must have been a very clear day, on top of a very high cliff, it's not normally this noticable :)


Ruler maybe?? if you place it so it is level with the horizon on both ends, the dark blue rises over the ruler edge in the middle :)
No, I see no curvature at all.  You'd better draw that straight line.

I tried that.  The horizon seemed to stay level with the ruler to me.  Are you incapable of using graphics software to draw a straight line?  ???
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: bowler on July 09, 2010, 02:27:17 PM
Dude. I don't think you can see the Earths curvature from ground level by eye. There are a few papers on this. I think above about 60,000 it can be seen. commerical airliners are hard, you can I think you a lens that removes barrel distortion and a stright line to aid the eye. Its also a bit dependent on humitidy and what not. Although I grant you I just 'GIMPed' a line onto that and there is a curve but I suspect it may be the cameras lens. That said you do have a very clear day there, but still, ground level.....
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on July 09, 2010, 02:34:15 PM
Dude. I don't think you can see the Earths curvature from ground level by eye. There are a few papers on this. I think above about 60,000 it can be seen. commerical airliners are hard, you can I think you a lens that removes barrel distortion and a stright line to aid the eye. Its also a bit dependent on humitidy and what not. Although I grant you I just 'GIMPed' a line onto that and there is a curve but I suspect it may be the cameras lens. That said you do have a very clear day there, but still, ground level.....

I don't mean to be a bother, but can you post your 'GIMPed' picture since dell doesn't seem willing (or able) to do this himself?  Although I suspect you're right if there is some minute curvature visible that the picture was simply taken with a wide angle lens.  It looks like there's some perspective distortion in the foreground as well, though it's a bit hard to tell for sure.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: dell on July 09, 2010, 02:34:34 PM
Right here goes...

I will draw a sraight line on this photo so you can see the curvature for yourself :D

(http://images.travelpod.com/users/johnclaire/oz-07.1195222260.notice-the-curvature-of-the-earth.jpg)
EDIT I decided it was too obvious to need a straight line, this must have been a very clear day, on top of a very high cliff, it's not normally this noticable :)


Ruler maybe?? if you place it so it is level with the horizon on both ends, the dark blue rises over the ruler edge in the middle :)
No, I see no curvature at all.  You'd better draw that straight line.

I tried that.  The horizon seemed to stay level with the ruler to me.  Are you incapable of using graphics software to draw a straight line?  ???

Im sorry, im new to posting on forums, so i could (and have) put a straight line on it, however i am clueless as how to re-upload the edited picture.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on July 09, 2010, 02:35:28 PM
Im sorry, im new to posting on forums, so i could (and have) put a straight line on it, however i am clueless as how to re-upload the edited picture.

You have to host it with tinypic or a similar site.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: dell on July 09, 2010, 02:38:27 PM
Im sorry, im new to posting on forums, so i could (and have) put a straight line on it, however i am clueless as how to re-upload the edited picture.

You have to host it with tinypic or a similar site.

Ok ta, well i will look into that, as i plan to become a more frequent poster on this site :D

And thank you for respecting my lack of knowledge rather than ripping me for it as Pizzaplanet seems to have done :/
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=40620.0 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=40620.0)
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: bowler on July 09, 2010, 02:48:53 PM
Its not really subtle zoom in and you can see it with a ruler. I suspect what you may have there is barrel distortion.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: dell on July 09, 2010, 02:51:54 PM
Its not really subtle zoom in and you can see it with a ruler. I suspect what you may have there is barrel distortion.

Kk, well i guess i stand corrected, however could it not also just as easily be the curvature?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 09, 2010, 02:56:07 PM
Its not really subtle zoom in and you can see it with a ruler. I suspect what you may have there is barrel distortion.
Why does this distortion always have the edges down and the center up? That's like no optical distortion that I've ever heard of.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: bowler on July 09, 2010, 03:03:47 PM
Sorry? Maybe im missing something. I though barrel distortion caused the centre of an image to bulge away from the centre line. So I think that if that horizon was below the midline it would make the Earth look concave. Maybe ive got it the wrong way round in which case I think its called pincushion. It could be a real effect I guess but i'd be suprised.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Lorddave on July 09, 2010, 03:05:10 PM
Im sorry, im new to posting on forums, so i could (and have) put a straight line on it, however i am clueless as how to re-upload the edited picture.

You have to host it with tinypic or a similar site.

I prefer photobucket.

Anyway there is a curve.  However, because the horizon is fuzzy, the curve is only about 5 pixels from center to end.  It's visible but difficult to define.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 09, 2010, 03:06:25 PM
Its not really subtle zoom in and you can see it with a ruler. I suspect what you may have there is barrel distortion.
Why does this distortion always have the edges down and the center up? That's like no optical distortion that I've ever heard of.

Look up barrel distortion.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: zork on July 09, 2010, 03:15:25 PM
Its not really subtle zoom in and you can see it with a ruler. I suspect what you may have there is barrel distortion.

Kk, well i guess i stand corrected, however could it not also just as easily be the curvature?
You really can't see the curvature of the earth at ground level. There is quite good paper about that - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth (http://thulescientific.com/Lynch Curvature 2008.pdf)
 And if you want more reading about determining round earth then Turbulent ship wakes: further evidence that the Earth is round (http://www.thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf)
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 09, 2010, 03:18:10 PM
Its not really subtle zoom in and you can see it with a ruler. I suspect what you may have there is barrel distortion.
Why does this distortion always have the edges down and the center up? That's like no optical distortion that I've ever heard of.

Look up barrel distortion.
I looked it up. There's nothing about it causing the edges down and the center up.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on July 09, 2010, 03:21:58 PM
Its not really subtle zoom in and you can see it with a ruler. I suspect what you may have there is barrel distortion.
Why does this distortion always have the edges down and the center up? That's like no optical distortion that I've ever heard of.

Look up barrel distortion.
I looked it up. There's nothing about it causing the edges down and the center up.

Well, here's a diagram from the wikipedia page on distortion that may illuminate things for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barrel_distortion.svg

Note that toward the top of the image, where the supposed curvature in the photograph is taking place, the edges are level and the arc peaks in the middle of the diagram.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 09, 2010, 03:25:04 PM
Its not really subtle zoom in and you can see it with a ruler. I suspect what you may have there is barrel distortion.
Why does this distortion always have the edges down and the center up? That's like no optical distortion that I've ever heard of.

Look up barrel distortion.
I looked it up. There's nothing about it causing the edges down and the center up.

Good thing we never said anything about the center being distorted. Where the "curvature" is, is not the center.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 09, 2010, 03:34:20 PM
Its not really subtle zoom in and you can see it with a ruler. I suspect what you may have there is barrel distortion.
Why does this distortion always have the edges down and the center up? That's like no optical distortion that I've ever heard of.

Look up barrel distortion.
I looked it up. There's nothing about it causing the edges down and the center up.

Well, here's a diagram from the wikipedia page on distortion that may illuminate things for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barrel_distortion.svg
I understand the point. So the hypothesis is not just that there's a barrel distortion, but also that the horizon is very near the top of the original photo.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 09, 2010, 03:42:29 PM
Its not really subtle zoom in and you can see it with a ruler. I suspect what you may have there is barrel distortion.
Why does this distortion always have the edges down and the center up? That's like no optical distortion that I've ever heard of.

Look up barrel distortion.
I looked it up. There's nothing about it causing the edges down and the center up.

Well, here's a diagram from the wikipedia page on distortion that may illuminate things for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barrel_distortion.svg
I understand the point. So the hypothesis is not just that there's a barrel distortion, but only that it horizon is very near the top of the original photo.

Could you reitterate this? I'm not sure what you are saying...
At first you say that there is barrel distortion,
Quote
So the hypothesis is not just that there's a barrel distortion
and then you say that there isn't any?
Quote
but only that it horizon is very near the top of the original photo.

I'm confused.  :P
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on July 09, 2010, 03:53:48 PM
Its not really subtle zoom in and you can see it with a ruler. I suspect what you may have there is barrel distortion.
Why does this distortion always have the edges down and the center up? That's like no optical distortion that I've ever heard of.

Look up barrel distortion.
I looked it up. There's nothing about it causing the edges down and the center up.

Well, here's a diagram from the wikipedia page on distortion that may illuminate things for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barrel_distortion.svg
I understand the point. So the hypothesis is not just that there's a barrel distortion, but only that it horizon is very near the top of the original photo.

If you could express that intelligibly I might be able to answer it.  ???
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: PizzaPlanet on July 09, 2010, 03:54:46 PM
And thank you for respecting my lack of knowledge rather than ripping me for it as Pizzaplanet seems to have done :/
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=40620.0 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=40620.0)
Aww, RM is just shits and giggles, bro. Don't get offended :(. Feel free to make a topic in RM about me being a pretzel, and you'll see me confirming this fact. Promise.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 09, 2010, 04:05:55 PM
Its not really subtle zoom in and you can see it with a ruler. I suspect what you may have there is barrel distortion.
Why does this distortion always have the edges down and the center up? That's like no optical distortion that I've ever heard of.

Look up barrel distortion.
I looked it up. There's nothing about it causing the edges down and the center up.

Well, here's a diagram from the wikipedia page on distortion that may illuminate things for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barrel_distortion.svg
I understand the point. So the hypothesis is not just that there's a barrel distortion, but also that the horizon is very near the top of the original photo.
Sorry. Fixed
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 09, 2010, 04:28:37 PM
Its not really subtle zoom in and you can see it with a ruler. I suspect what you may have there is barrel distortion.
Why does this distortion always have the edges down and the center up? That's like no optical distortion that I've ever heard of.

Look up barrel distortion.
I looked it up. There's nothing about it causing the edges down and the center up.

Well, here's a diagram from the wikipedia page on distortion that may illuminate things for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barrel_distortion.svg
I understand the point. So the hypothesis is not just that there's a barrel distortion, but also that the horizon is very near the top of the original photo.
Sorry. Fixed
Thank you. :)

Yes and no. There is barrel distortion, but that doesn't mean something has to be near the edge for it to be distorted. Anything that is not the center is going to have distortion.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Barrel_distortion.svg/200px-Barrel_distortion.svg.png)
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Lorddave on July 09, 2010, 04:36:34 PM
Best way to see that the curvature is to actually look at the waves.
According to FE, you should see the waves in the far off distance get smaller and smaller (blurrier and blurrier)until they vanish.  The reality, however, is that they don't.  You see waves up to a point with a fair bit of clarity then they abruptly stop.  You know, in your mind, there are more waves across the Ocean but you can't see them even though you should be able to.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: dell on July 09, 2010, 04:48:46 PM
And thank you for respecting my lack of knowledge rather than ripping me for it as Pizzaplanet seems to have done :/
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=40620.0 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=40620.0)
Aww, RM is just shits and giggles, bro. Don't get offended :(. Feel free to make a topic in RM about me being a pretzel, and you'll see me confirming this fact. Promise.

That's ok, im just not used to this kind of stuff really :D it's all cool know :)
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: PizzaPlanet on July 09, 2010, 06:41:12 PM
And thank you for respecting my lack of knowledge rather than ripping me for it as Pizzaplanet seems to have done :/
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=40620.0 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=40620.0)
Aww, RM is just shits and giggles, bro. Don't get offended :(. Feel free to make a topic in RM about me being a pretzel, and you'll see me confirming this fact. Promise.

That's ok, im just not used to this kind of stuff really :D it's all cool know :)
Yay <3
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Ellipsis on July 11, 2010, 05:21:21 PM
With the barrel distortion argument, if the picture were taken facing even slightly above the horizon, it would curve in the opposite direction, which is precisely why pongo's window lensing fails (though it is only one reason of many).  I guess people somehow missed this post:
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 11, 2010, 05:25:47 PM
With the barrel distortion argument, if the picture were taken facing even slightly above the horizon, it would curve in the opposite direction


Good thing where the "horizon" is, is in the top portion of the picture, so it's bending agrees with barrel distortion.

Btw, you should fix that picture, you can barely even understand what you are talking about the writing is so sloppy.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Ellipsis on July 12, 2010, 09:59:19 PM
Good thing where the "horizon" is, is in the top portion of the picture, so it's bending agrees with barrel distortion.

What?  You should fix that post.  I can't understand what you're talking about when you make no sense.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 13, 2010, 09:55:57 AM
Good thing where the "horizon" is, is in the top portion of the picture, so it's bending agrees with barrel distortion.

What?  You should fix that post.  I can't understand what you're talking about when you make no sense.

With the barrel distortion argument, if the picture were taken facing even slightly above the horizon, it would curve in the opposite direction, which is precisely why pongo's window lensing fails (though it is only one reason of many).

The picture wasn't taken slightly above the "horizon". The "horizon" is easily above the center of the picture, so the way it bends is true to barrel distortion.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on July 13, 2010, 11:27:12 AM
Good thing where the "horizon" is, is in the top portion of the picture, so it's bending agrees with barrel distortion.

What?  You should fix that post.  I can't understand what you're talking about when you make no sense.

With the barrel distortion argument, if the picture were taken facing even slightly above the horizon, it would curve in the opposite direction, which is precisely why pongo's window lensing fails (though it is only one reason of many).

The picture wasn't taken slightly above the "horizon". The "horizon" is easily above the center of the picture, so the way it bends is true to barrel distortion.

Keep in mind, pictures can be cropped.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 13, 2010, 11:48:53 AM
Good thing where the "horizon" is, is in the top portion of the picture, so it's bending agrees with barrel distortion.

What?  You should fix that post.  I can't understand what you're talking about when you make no sense.

With the barrel distortion argument, if the picture were taken facing even slightly above the horizon, it would curve in the opposite direction, which is precisely why pongo's window lensing fails (though it is only one reason of many).

The picture wasn't taken slightly above the "horizon". The "horizon" is easily above the center of the picture, so the way it bends is true to barrel distortion.

Keep in mind, pictures can be cropped.

So you are saying the picture has been doctored?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ThatGuyWhoLikesScience on July 16, 2010, 01:52:09 AM
i believe earth is round, but if you go far enough there is a point where the circumcision is present, and there is where you will find the point of contact of the water.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Pongo on July 16, 2010, 02:10:11 AM
i believe earth is round, but if you go far enough there is a point where the circumcision is present, and there is where you will find the point of contact of the water.

I think that your circumcision should have gone further.  For the sake of the gene pool that is.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 16, 2010, 09:47:41 AM
Good thing where the "horizon" is, is in the top portion of the picture, so it's bending agrees with barrel distortion.

What?  You should fix that post.  I can't understand what you're talking about when you make no sense.

With the barrel distortion argument, if the picture were taken facing even slightly above the horizon, it would curve in the opposite direction, which is precisely why pongo's window lensing fails (though it is only one reason of many).

The picture wasn't taken slightly above the "horizon". The "horizon" is easily above the center of the picture, so the way it bends is true to barrel distortion.

Keep in mind, pictures can be cropped.

So you are saying the picture has been doctored?

It seems to me the options here are either barrel distortion or that the picture has been doctored.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: lawlage on July 16, 2010, 07:25:11 PM
Good argument. However, the reason the Earth looks curved from a high altitude is actually because it is spherical.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 16, 2010, 11:10:17 PM
Good argument. However, the reason the Earth looks curved from a high altitude is actually because it is spherical.

Awesome argument. You made so many great points there.

This single post gave more insight to the world as we know it than everything else in this thread combined.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: zork on July 17, 2010, 02:23:58 AM
Good argument. However, the reason the Earth looks curved from a high altitude is actually because it is spherical.

Awesome argument. You made so many great points there.

This single post gave more insight to the world as we know it than everything else in this thread combined.
Of course it's awesome. It's exactly in same level as FE only "evidence". Look out the window and what you see? Earth is flat so it must be flat.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Pongo on July 17, 2010, 03:08:58 AM
Good argument. However, the reason the Earth looks curved from a high altitude is actually because it is spherical.

Do you have any proof to support these outlandish claims?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: markjo on July 17, 2010, 09:26:08 AM
Good argument. However, the reason the Earth looks curved from a high altitude is actually because it is spherical.

Do you have any proof to support these outlandish claims?

Is there any proof that you would accept?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on July 17, 2010, 09:39:00 AM
Good argument. However, the reason the Earth looks curved from a high altitude is actually because it is spherical.

Do you have any proof to support these outlandish claims?

lurk moar
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 17, 2010, 09:47:51 PM
Good argument. However, the reason the Earth looks curved from a high altitude is actually because it is spherical.

Awesome argument. You made so many great points there.

This single post gave more insight to the world as we know it than everything else in this thread combined.
Of course it's awesome. It's exactly in same level as FE only "evidence". Look out the window and what you see? Earth is flat so it must be flat.

How is even close? Granted, the look out your window argument is a horrible argument to prove FE, but this is even below that. If you look out and see it is flat, than assume it is flat correct? If you see it is round, why assume it is a sphere? There are plenty of round shapes that aren't spheres. In fact, according to this definition, spheres and balls come after disks and cylinders.

(Dictionary.com)
Quote
round
1.
having a flat, circular surface, as a disk.
2.
ring-shaped, as a hoop.
3.
curved like part of a circle, as an outline.
4.
having a circular cross section, as a cylinder; cylindrical.
5.
spherical or globular, as a ball.
6.
shaped more or less like a part of a sphere; hemispherical.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: PizzaPlanet on July 17, 2010, 10:33:15 PM
(Dictionary.com)

I'm not saying the definition is wrong, but please don't use shitty sources when it comes to words' definitions. Dictionary.com is known to contain words that don't exist.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 17, 2010, 10:42:28 PM
(Dictionary.com)

I'm not saying the definition is wrong, but please don't use shitty sources when it comes to words' definitions. Dictionary.com is known to contain words that don't exist.

I was actually using the same definition that a certain RE'er used to say that round = sphere. I know there are better sources, but I figured, hey, if RE'ers will use it, why not I?

Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: AdmiralAckbar on July 17, 2010, 10:57:09 PM
(Dictionary.com)

I'm not saying the definition is wrong, but please don't use shitty sources when it comes to words' definitions. Dictionary.com is known to contain words that don't exist.

I was actually using the same definition that a certain RE'er used to say that round = sphere. I know there are better sources, but I figured, hey, if RE'ers will use it, why not I?



Aww its cute, he mentioned me :D. We were talking semantics, such as if the literal of FLAT EARTH were to be taken in context, then mountain ranges, hills, possible the entirety of what we know as the 3-D world would not exist, such is the same for calling it a ROUND EARTH as you have been so kind as to outline the inaccuracy of such a label, so if you want we can change everything from RE to SE (spherical Earth) and FE to.... PE (Plane Earth?). Please try not to derail the thread. :)
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on July 18, 2010, 02:40:26 AM
http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0720170#m_en_gb0720170

There you go, a reliable source. Oh wait, I am not sure, maybe it has affiliations with NASA, the goverment or the outside world in general! :O
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: zork on July 18, 2010, 09:00:20 PM
Of course it's awesome. It's exactly in same level as FE only "evidence". Look out the window and what you see? Earth is flat so it must be flat.

How is even close?
It has quite same wording and has same amount on great points. Shortly:
1)Earth looks curved so it is spherical.
2)Earth looks flat so it is flat.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 19, 2010, 12:00:52 AM
Of course it's awesome. It's exactly in same level as FE only "evidence". Look out the window and what you see? Earth is flat so it must be flat.

How is even close?
It has quite same wording and has same amount on great points. Shortly:
1)Earth looks curved so it is spherical.
2)Earth looks flat so it is flat.

You even read the rest of my post, you'd notice how I pointed out that curved != spherical until the sixth definition.
And in fact, curved pointed towards disks and cylinders first.

Wait, aren't those FE things?
It seems to me that either way, whether you think it is flat, or you think it is curved, it suggests FE before it does SE.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: AdmiralAckbar on July 19, 2010, 12:03:06 AM
Of course it's awesome. It's exactly in same level as FE only "evidence". Look out the window and what you see? Earth is flat so it must be flat.

How is even close?
It has quite same wording and has same amount on great points. Shortly:
1)Earth looks curved so it is spherical.
2)Earth looks flat so it is flat.

You you even read the rest of my post, you'd notice how I pointed out that curved != spherical until the sixth definition.
And in fact, curved pointed towards disks and cylinders first.

Wait, aren't those FE things?
It seems to me that either way, whether you think it is flat, or you think it is curved, it suggests FE before it does SE.

Cool a website picked a random order to address things. How about the more pressing matter that FE was the original belief in the world until it was dis-proven. FE came first, but SE came back and kicked its ass.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 19, 2010, 12:03:34 AM
Of course it's awesome. It's exactly in same level as FE only "evidence". Look out the window and what you see? Earth is flat so it must be flat.

How is even close?
It has quite same wording and has same amount on great points. Shortly:
1)Earth looks curved so it is spherical.
2)Earth looks flat so it is flat.

You you even read the rest of my post, you'd notice how I pointed out that curved != spherical until the sixth definition.
And in fact, curved pointed towards disks and cylinders first.

Wait, aren't those FE things?
It seems to me that either way, whether you think it is flat, or you think it is curved, it suggests FE before it does SE.
Let's clear up the confusion. The challenge to FET is that the horizon appears 1) lower than eye-level and 2) curved downward (left and right down and center up) in various photographs and eye-witness accounts. RET has an answer, consistent and predictive (RET predicts sunrise time, for example). We've heard that EA solves the problem, but no one can describe EA. Even the FAQ doesn't answer that question. We've heard about magic waves. We've heard that it's just the terminator, a really lame proposal. We've heard that is the conspiracy doctoring all the photographs and forcing Neil Armstrong and his colleagues to lie.

FET fails so miserably in so many ways, but this problem is inherently fatal to FET.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 19, 2010, 12:12:26 AM
Of course it's awesome. It's exactly in same level as FE only "evidence". Look out the window and what you see? Earth is flat so it must be flat.

How is even close?
It has quite same wording and has same amount on great points. Shortly:
1)Earth looks curved so it is spherical.
2)Earth looks flat so it is flat.

You you even read the rest of my post, you'd notice how I pointed out that curved != spherical until the sixth definition.
And in fact, curved pointed towards disks and cylinders first.

Wait, aren't those FE things?
It seems to me that either way, whether you think it is flat, or you think it is curved, it suggests FE before it does SE.

Cool a website picked a random order to address things.

Dictionaries don't but definitions in random order, they put them in order of most common use or relevance.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: d00gz on July 19, 2010, 05:01:42 AM
Of course it's awesome. It's exactly in same level as FE only "evidence". Look out the window and what you see? Earth is flat so it must be flat.

How is even close?
It has quite same wording and has same amount on great points. Shortly:
1)Earth looks curved so it is spherical.
2)Earth looks flat so it is flat.

You even read the rest of my post, you'd notice how I pointed out that curved != spherical until the sixth definition.
And in fact, curved pointed towards disks and cylinders first.

Wait, aren't those FE things?
It seems to me that either way, whether you think it is flat, or you think it is curved, it suggests FE before it does SE.

If you are on an aircraft at 50,000 feet, you can look out the window and see the earth's curvature. You can then turn 90 degree's, and look out another window, and see the same curvature. Explain how the earth could be a cylinder, having made these observations?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: zork on July 19, 2010, 08:01:21 AM
You even read the rest of my post, you'd notice how I pointed out that curved != spherical until the sixth definition.
And in fact, curved pointed towards disks and cylinders first.
  Curved also can mean spherical, so it doesn't matter what else it may point out. Sitting on a VERY BIG whatever shape and looking out of window and seeing flat doesn't mean that the object is flat. So, flat can point out anything. And for me they are arguments of same level. Say whatever you want.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 19, 2010, 10:15:52 AM
Of course it's awesome. It's exactly in same level as FE only "evidence". Look out the window and what you see? Earth is flat so it must be flat.

How is even close?
It has quite same wording and has same amount on great points. Shortly:
1)Earth looks curved so it is spherical.
2)Earth looks flat so it is flat.

You you even read the rest of my post, you'd notice how I pointed out that curved != spherical until the sixth definition.
And in fact, curved pointed towards disks and cylinders first.

Wait, aren't those FE things?
It seems to me that either way, whether you think it is flat, or you think it is curved, it suggests FE before it does SE.
We've heard that EA solves the problem, but no one can describe EA. Even the FAQ doesn't answer that question.

Lurk moar than. Parsec and Parsifal have made countless posts and threads describing and going into the detail the mathematics and physics of EA.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: AdmiralAckbar on July 19, 2010, 10:32:50 AM
Of course it's awesome. It's exactly in same level as FE only "evidence". Look out the window and what you see? Earth is flat so it must be flat.

How is even close?
It has quite same wording and has same amount on great points. Shortly:
1)Earth looks curved so it is spherical.
2)Earth looks flat so it is flat.

You you even read the rest of my post, you'd notice how I pointed out that curved != spherical until the sixth definition.
And in fact, curved pointed towards disks and cylinders first.

Wait, aren't those FE things?
It seems to me that either way, whether you think it is flat, or you think it is curved, it suggests FE before it does SE.

Cool a website picked a random order to address things.

Dictionaries don't but definitions in random order, they put them in order of most common use or relevance.

put*

and according to you that dictionary isn't exactly reliable. :)
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: zork on July 19, 2010, 12:54:56 PM
Lurk moar than. Parsec and Parsifal have made countless posts and threads describing and going into the detail the mathematics and physics of EA.
Which unfortunately does not fit anywhere. There isn't practical way to make light bend or observe it bend as their math and physics supposedly show.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on July 19, 2010, 01:30:02 PM
Of course it's awesome. It's exactly in same level as FE only "evidence". Look out the window and what you see? Earth is flat so it must be flat.

How is even close?
It has quite same wording and has same amount on great points. Shortly:
1)Earth looks curved so it is spherical.
2)Earth looks flat so it is flat.

You you even read the rest of my post, you'd notice how I pointed out that curved != spherical until the sixth definition.
And in fact, curved pointed towards disks and cylinders first.

Wait, aren't those FE things?
It seems to me that either way, whether you think it is flat, or you think it is curved, it suggests FE before it does SE.
We've heard that EA solves the problem, but no one can describe EA. Even the FAQ doesn't answer that question.

Lurk moar than. Parsec and Parsifal have made countless posts and threads describing and going into the detail the mathematics and physics of EA.

Lurk moar and you will find that Parsifal admitted to not having any evidence for bendy light and can not explain how the mechanism would work if it did exsist.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Thevoiceofreason on July 19, 2010, 03:46:19 PM
Of course it's awesome. It's exactly in same level as FE only "evidence". Look out the window and what you see? Earth is flat so it must be flat.

How is even close?
It has quite same wording and has same amount on great points. Shortly:
1)Earth looks curved so it is spherical.
2)Earth looks flat so it is flat.

You you even read the rest of my post, you'd notice how I pointed out that curved != spherical until the sixth definition.
And in fact, curved pointed towards disks and cylinders first.

Wait, aren't those FE things?
It seems to me that either way, whether you think it is flat, or you think it is curved, it suggests FE before it does SE.
We've heard that EA solves the problem, but no one can describe EA. Even the FAQ doesn't answer that question.

Lurk moar than. Parsec and Parsifal have made countless posts and threads describing and going into the detail the mathematics and physics of EA.

No they haven't. Parsifal just gave us one BS equation that basically said, derp light moves here. what he failed to do was describe the actual forces behind it, i.e. the location and nature of the force. Also, he never verified that the light path would allow for sunset and sunrise. Finally, he never explained how the force acted upon the light not only mattered for the position, but the velocity of the photon as well.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 19, 2010, 04:49:43 PM
Of course it's awesome. It's exactly in same level as FE only "evidence". Look out the window and what you see? Earth is flat so it must be flat.

How is even close?
It has quite same wording and has same amount on great points. Shortly:
1)Earth looks curved so it is spherical.
2)Earth looks flat so it is flat.

You you even read the rest of my post, you'd notice how I pointed out that curved != spherical until the sixth definition.
And in fact, curved pointed towards disks and cylinders first.

Wait, aren't those FE things?
It seems to me that either way, whether you think it is flat, or you think it is curved, it suggests FE before it does SE.
We've heard that EA solves the problem, but no one can describe EA. Even the FAQ doesn't answer that question.

Lurk moar than. Parsec and Parsifal have made countless posts and threads describing and going into the detail the mathematics and physics of EA.

No they haven't. Parsifal just gave us one BS equation that basically said, derp light moves here. what he failed to do was describe the actual forces behind it, i.e. the location and nature of the force. Finally, he never explained how the force acted upon the light not only mattered for the position, but the velocity of the photon as well.

So what? Just because he can't prove the mechanism behind it, doesn't mean he can't understand how it functions. I'm pretty sure RE'ers do the exact same thing for gravity.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 19, 2010, 04:53:50 PM


No they haven't. Parsifal just gave us one BS equation that basically said, derp light moves here. what he failed to do was describe the actual forces behind it, i.e. the location and nature of the force. Finally, he never explained how the force acted upon the light not only mattered for the position, but the velocity of the photon as well.

So what? Just because he can't prove the mechanism behind it, doesn't mean he can't understand how it functions. I'm pretty sure RE'ers do the exact same thing for gravity.

No. Wrong Again. First, no one requires a proof of the mechanism. Second, Newton did describe the force of gravity universally. Third, you'll have to demonstrate to us that he does understand how it functions.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 19, 2010, 06:53:04 PM


No they haven't. Parsifal just gave us one BS equation that basically said, derp light moves here. what he failed to do was describe the actual forces behind it, i.e. the location and nature of the force. Finally, he never explained how the force acted upon the light not only mattered for the position, but the velocity of the photon as well.

So what? Just because he can't prove the mechanism behind it, doesn't mean he can't understand how it functions. I'm pretty sure RE'ers do the exact same thing for gravity.

No. Wrong Again. First, no one requires a proof of the mechanism. Second, Newton did describe the force of gravity universally. Third, you'll have to demonstrate to us that he does understand how it functions.
Newton did not understand gravity. Newton was 100% wrong.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 19, 2010, 07:00:34 PM


No they haven't. Parsifal just gave us one BS equation that basically said, derp light moves here. what he failed to do was describe the actual forces behind it, i.e. the location and nature of the force. Finally, he never explained how the force acted upon the light not only mattered for the position, but the velocity of the photon as well.

So what? Just because he can't prove the mechanism behind it, doesn't mean he can't understand how it functions. I'm pretty sure RE'ers do the exact same thing for gravity.

No. Wrong Again. First, no one requires a proof of the mechanism. Second, Newton did describe the force of gravity universally. Third, you'll have to demonstrate to us that he does understand how it functions.
Newton did not understand gravity. Newton was 100% wrong.
1) Did anyone claim that Newton understood gravity? 2) Based on your FET, do tell us how you know that Newton was 100% wrong.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 19, 2010, 07:30:36 PM


No they haven't. Parsifal just gave us one BS equation that basically said, derp light moves here. what he failed to do was describe the actual forces behind it, i.e. the location and nature of the force. Finally, he never explained how the force acted upon the light not only mattered for the position, but the velocity of the photon as well.

So what? Just because he can't prove the mechanism behind it, doesn't mean he can't understand how it functions. I'm pretty sure RE'ers do the exact same thing for gravity.

No. Wrong Again. First, no one requires a proof of the mechanism. Second, Newton did describe the force of gravity universally. Third, you'll have to demonstrate to us that he does understand how it functions.
Newton did not understand gravity. Newton was 100% wrong.
1) Did anyone claim that Newton understood gravity? 2) Based on your FET, do tell us how you know that Newton was 100% wrong.
You implied Newton understood gravity.

2. Newton was wrong because objects are not attracted to eachother.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 19, 2010, 07:37:33 PM


No they haven't. Parsifal just gave us one BS equation that basically said, derp light moves here. what he failed to do was describe the actual forces behind it, i.e. the location and nature of the force. Finally, he never explained how the force acted upon the light not only mattered for the position, but the velocity of the photon as well.

So what? Just because he can't prove the mechanism behind it, doesn't mean he can't understand how it functions. I'm pretty sure RE'ers do the exact same thing for gravity.

No. Wrong Again. First, no one requires a proof of the mechanism. Second, Newton did describe the force of gravity universally. Third, you'll have to demonstrate to us that he does understand
us
how it functions.
Newton did not understand gravity. Newton was 100% wrong.
1) Did anyone claim that Newton understood gravity? 2) Based on your FET, do tell us how you know that Newton was 100% wrong.
You implied Newton understood gravity.

2. Newton was wrong because objects are not attracted to eachother.
Where did I imply that?

2. You're obviously wrong. Objects are attracted to each other.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 19, 2010, 10:02:09 PM


No they haven't. Parsifal just gave us one BS equation that basically said, derp light moves here. what he failed to do was describe the actual forces behind it, i.e. the location and nature of the force. Finally, he never explained how the force acted upon the light not only mattered for the position, but the velocity of the photon as well.

So what? Just because he can't prove the mechanism behind it, doesn't mean he can't understand how it functions. I'm pretty sure RE'ers do the exact same thing for gravity.

No. Wrong Again. First, no one requires a proof of the mechanism. Second, Newton did describe the force of gravity universally. Third, you'll have to demonstrate to us that he does understand
us
how it functions.
Newton did not understand gravity. Newton was 100% wrong.
1) Did anyone claim that Newton understood gravity? 2) Based on your FET, do tell us how you know that Newton was 100% wrong.
You implied Newton understood gravity.

2. Newton was wrong because objects are not attracted to eachother.
Where did I imply that?

2. You're obviously wrong. Objects are attracted to each other.
Provide proof of electrically neutral objects being attracted to each other.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: AdmiralAckbar on July 19, 2010, 10:11:27 PM


No they haven't. Parsifal just gave us one BS equation that basically said, derp light moves here. what he failed to do was describe the actual forces behind it, i.e. the location and nature of the force. Finally, he never explained how the force acted upon the light not only mattered for the position, but the velocity of the photon as well.

So what? Just because he can't prove the mechanism behind it, doesn't mean he can't understand how it functions. I'm pretty sure RE'ers do the exact same thing for gravity.

No. Wrong Again. First, no one requires a proof of the mechanism. Second, Newton did describe the force of gravity universally. Third, you'll have to demonstrate to us that he does understand
us
how it functions.
Newton did not understand gravity. Newton was 100% wrong.
1) Did anyone claim that Newton understood gravity? 2) Based on your FET, do tell us how you know that Newton was 100% wrong.
You implied Newton understood gravity.

2. Newton was wrong because objects are not attracted to eachother.
Where did I imply that?

2. You're obviously wrong. Objects are attracted to each other.
Provide proof of electrically neutral objects being attracted to each other.

My high school physics teacher did an experiment that proved they are 0.o.


^ this explains the idea
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: EnglshGentleman on July 19, 2010, 10:51:55 PM


No they haven't. Parsifal just gave us one BS equation that basically said, derp light moves here. what he failed to do was describe the actual forces behind it, i.e. the location and nature of the force. Finally, he never explained how the force acted upon the light not only mattered for the position, but the velocity of the photon as well.

So what? Just because he can't prove the mechanism behind it, doesn't mean he can't understand how it functions. I'm pretty sure RE'ers do the exact same thing for gravity.

No. Wrong Again. First, no one requires a proof of the mechanism. Second, Newton did describe the force of gravity universally. Third, you'll have to demonstrate to us that he does understand
us
how it functions.
Newton did not understand gravity. Newton was 100% wrong.
1) Did anyone claim that Newton understood gravity? 2) Based on your FET, do tell us how you know that Newton was 100% wrong.
You implied Newton understood gravity.

2. Newton was wrong because objects are not attracted to eachother.
Where did I imply that?

2. You're obviously wrong. Objects are attracted to each other.
Provide proof of electrically neutral objects being attracted to each other.

My high school physics teacher did an experiment that proved they are 0.o.


^ this explains the idea

Your high school physics teacher was teaching entanglement!?  :o

I thought there was only a dozen or so people in the world that fully understand how it works.
That's incredible!
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: AdmiralAckbar on July 19, 2010, 11:05:49 PM


No they haven't. Parsifal just gave us one BS equation that basically said, derp light moves here. what he failed to do was describe the actual forces behind it, i.e. the location and nature of the force. Finally, he never explained how the force acted upon the light not only mattered for the position, but the velocity of the photon as well.

So what? Just because he can't prove the mechanism behind it, doesn't mean he can't understand how it functions. I'm pretty sure RE'ers do the exact same thing for gravity.

No. Wrong Again. First, no one requires a proof of the mechanism. Second, Newton did describe the force of gravity universally. Third, you'll have to demonstrate to us that he does understand
us
how it functions.
Newton did not understand gravity. Newton was 100% wrong.
1) Did anyone claim that Newton understood gravity? 2) Based on your FET, do tell us how you know that Newton was 100% wrong.
You implied Newton understood gravity.

2. Newton was wrong because objects are not attracted to eachother.
Where did I imply that?

2. You're obviously wrong. Objects are attracted to each other.
Provide proof of electrically neutral objects being attracted to each other.

My high school physics teacher did an experiment that proved they are 0.o.


^ this explains the idea

Your high school physics teacher was teaching entanglement!?  :o

I thought there was only a dozen or so people in the world that fully understand how it works.
That's incredible!

He touched upon the basic idea, and he did an experiment inolving.... 2 masses on a stick on a string hanging from the cieling
with a laser pointing toward the board. you mark where it was originally keep the distances of the masses constant(?) and the laser moves in the direction of the object after an hour or so showing that the two masses moved closer toward on another. This is just me explaining the experiment off the top of my head, it was awhile ago.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 20, 2010, 08:41:40 AM

Provide proof of electrically neutral objects being attracted to each other.
Please read the FAQ.

Quote
Q: "What about tides?"

A: The gravitational pull of the celestial bodies provides tidal effects. Others believe that there is an object called the Sub-moon that sits underneath the Earth. The moon causes the tides, and the Sub-moon balances out the effect.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: jimftr on July 20, 2010, 11:11:46 AM
The earth is not flat, stop talking absolute bullshit.  It's been proved that the earth is a sphere and all your theories can not be backed up by any REAL proof or evidence.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 20, 2010, 11:19:35 AM

Provide proof of electrically neutral objects being attracted to each other.
Please read the FAQ.

Quote
Q: "What about tides?"

A: The gravitational pull of the celestial bodies provides tidal effects. Others believe that there is an object called the Sub-moon that sits underneath the Earth. The moon causes the tides, and the Sub-moon balances out the effect.
I didn't write the faq, and I have yet to see any proof of that claim.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 20, 2010, 11:21:42 AM
The earth is not flat, stop talking absolute bullshit.  It's been proved that the earth is a sphere and all your theories can not be backed up by any REAL proof or evidence.
No one thinks the earth is a sphere.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 20, 2010, 11:25:42 AM

Provide proof of electrically neutral objects being attracted to each other.
Please read the FAQ.

Quote
Q: "What about tides?"

A: The gravitational pull of the celestial bodies provides tidal effects. Others believe that there is an object called the Sub-moon that sits underneath the Earth. The moon causes the tides, and the Sub-moon balances out the effect.
I didn't write the faq, and I have yet to see any proof of that claim.
If you don't believe your own FAQ, then I suggest you take up the issue with FES. I have yet to see any evidence of your claim that Newton was 100% wrong. Since your claim came before mine, I'll let you go first in providing proof.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 20, 2010, 11:34:23 AM

Provide proof of electrically neutral objects being attracted to each other.
Please read the FAQ.

Quote
Q: "What about tides?"

A: The gravitational pull of the celestial bodies provides tidal effects. Others believe that there is an object called the Sub-moon that sits underneath the Earth. The moon causes the tides, and the Sub-moon balances out the effect.
I didn't write the faq, and I have yet to see any proof of that claim.
If you don't believe your own FAQ, then I suggest you take up the issue with FES. I have yet to see any evidence of your claim that Newton was 100% wrong. Since your claim came before mine, I'll let you go first in providing proof.
Newton's law of gravitation fails to predict the orbit of mercury. There is only one correct answer in science, so Newton was wrong.

You might not be aware of this, but I am barred from using the Flat Earth Believers for some reason.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 20, 2010, 11:52:37 AM

Provide proof of electrically neutral objects being attracted to each other.
Please read the FAQ.

Quote
Q: "What about tides?"

A: The gravitational pull of the celestial bodies provides tidal effects. Others believe that there is an object called the Sub-moon that sits underneath the Earth. The moon causes the tides, and the Sub-moon balances out the effect.
I didn't write the faq, and I have yet to see any proof of that claim.
If you don't believe your own FAQ, then I suggest you take up the issue with FES. I have yet to see any evidence of your claim that Newton was 100% wrong. Since your claim came before mine, I'll let you go first in providing proof.
Newton's law of gravitation fails to predict the orbit of mercury. There is only one correct answer in science, so Newton was wrong.

You might not be aware of this, but I am barred from using the Flat Earth Believers for some reason.
Are you saying that Mercury orbits the Sun? Please tell us how Newton is wrong? What is the mass of the Sun? What is the mass of Mercury? What is distance (minimum, maximum, and mean) between the center of Mercury and the center of the Sun? Without those answers, how can you know that Newton was wrong about the orbit of Mercury. (And BTW, Newton's Law is probably still correct. History shortened his Law moving the mass of the Sun out from under the integral. Once you use his original form, his Law agrees with reality still.)

I have no control over your use of a section. You'll just have to make suggestions in whatever section FES will permit. Sorry about your luck.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 20, 2010, 02:02:50 PM

Provide proof of electrically neutral objects being attracted to each other.
Please read the FAQ.

Quote
Q: "What about tides?"

A: The gravitational pull of the celestial bodies provides tidal effects. Others believe that there is an object called the Sub-moon that sits underneath the Earth. The moon causes the tides, and the Sub-moon balances out the effect.
I didn't write the faq, and I have yet to see any proof of that claim.
If you don't believe your own FAQ, then I suggest you take up the issue with FES. I have yet to see any evidence of your claim that Newton was 100% wrong. Since your claim came before mine, I'll let you go first in providing proof.
Newton's law of gravitation fails to predict the orbit of mercury. There is only one correct answer in science, so Newton was wrong.

You might not be aware of this, but I am barred from using the Flat Earth Believers for some reason.
Are you saying that Mercury orbits the Sun? Please tell us how Newton is wrong? What is the mass of the Sun? What is the mass of Mercury? What is distance (minimum, maximum, and mean) between the center of Mercury and the center of the Sun? Without those answers, how can you know that Newton was wrong about the orbit of Mercury. (And BTW, Newton's Law is probably still correct. History shortened his Law moving the mass of the Sun out from under the integral. Once you use his original form, his Law agrees with reality still.)

I have no control over your use of a section. You'll just have to make suggestions in whatever section FES will permit. Sorry about your luck.
I have already answered your question. Newtons's law is wrong because objects are not attracted to each-other.

Mercury travels along its own nexus ring. Read about it in FE wiki.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on July 20, 2010, 02:12:13 PM

Provide proof of electrically neutral objects being attracted to each other.
Please read the FAQ.

Quote
Q: "What about tides?"

A: The gravitational pull of the celestial bodies provides tidal effects. Others believe that there is an object called the Sub-moon that sits underneath the Earth. The moon causes the tides, and the Sub-moon balances out the effect.
I didn't write the faq, and I have yet to see any proof of that claim.
If you don't believe your own FAQ, then I suggest you take up the issue with FES. I have yet to see any evidence of your claim that Newton was 100% wrong. Since your claim came before mine, I'll let you go first in providing proof.
Newton's law of gravitation fails to predict the orbit of mercury. There is only one correct answer in science, so Newton was wrong.

You might not be aware of this, but I am barred from using the Flat Earth Believers for some reason.
Are you saying that Mercury orbits the Sun? Please tell us how Newton is wrong? What is the mass of the Sun? What is the mass of Mercury? What is distance (minimum, maximum, and mean) between the center of Mercury and the center of the Sun? Without those answers, how can you know that Newton was wrong about the orbit of Mercury. (And BTW, Newton's Law is probably still correct. History shortened his Law moving the mass of the Sun out from under the integral. Once you use his original form, his Law agrees with reality still.)

I have no control over your use of a section. You'll just have to make suggestions in whatever section FES will permit. Sorry about your luck.
I have already answered your question. Newtons's law is wrong because objects are not attracted to each-other.

Mercury travels along its own nexus ring. Read about it in FE wiki.

The moon is in fact made of chocolate. Read about it in my diary.

That is about as usefull and true as a FE wiki. (biased much mebbe?)
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 20, 2010, 02:39:29 PM

Provide proof of electrically neutral objects being attracted to each other.
Please read the FAQ.

Quote
Q: "What about tides?"

A: The gravitational pull of the celestial bodies provides tidal effects. Others believe that there is an object called the Sub-moon that sits underneath the Earth. The moon causes the tides, and the Sub-moon balances out the effect.
I didn't write the faq, and I have yet to see any proof of that claim.
If you don't believe your own FAQ, then I suggest you take up the issue with FES. I have yet to see any evidence of your claim that Newton was 100% wrong. Since your claim came before mine, I'll let you go first in providing proof.
Newton's law of gravitation fails to predict the orbit of mercury. There is only one correct answer in science, so Newton was wrong.

You might not be aware of this, but I am barred from using the Flat Earth Believers for some reason.
Are you saying that Mercury orbits the Sun? Please tell us how Newton is wrong? What is the mass of the Sun? What is the mass of Mercury? What is distance (minimum, maximum, and mean) between the center of Mercury and the center of the Sun? Without those answers, how can you know that Newton was wrong about the orbit of Mercury. (And BTW, Newton's Law is probably still correct. History shortened his Law moving the mass of the Sun out from under the integral. Once you use his original form, his Law agrees with reality still.)

I have no control over your use of a section. You'll just have to make suggestions in whatever section FES will permit. Sorry about your luck.
I have already answered your question. Newtons's law is wrong because objects are not attracted to each-other.

Mercury travels along its own nexus ring. Read about it in FE wiki.
So now we're right back where you were a few posts ago. You claim Newton is 100%. You provide one example that you can't explain. You claim objects are not attracted to each other. You provide no evidence of that. You claim the Mercury travels along its own nexus ring, only after claiming the Mercury orbits the Sun. You don't accept the FAQ when it disagrees with your claim, and then point us to FE Wiki. Over all, you've failed epically.

There are many cases of objects being attracted to each other: Raindrops coalesce. Magnets pick up iron filings. The moons of Jupiter revolve around Jupiter. Comets and asteroids are attracted to crash on Jupiter. Don't forget I need only one counter-example to invalidate your claim that "objects are not attracted to each-other[sic]."
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 20, 2010, 04:02:42 PM

Provide proof of electrically neutral objects being attracted to each other.
Please read the FAQ.

Quote
Q: "What about tides?"

A: The gravitational pull of the celestial bodies provides tidal effects. Others believe that there is an object called the Sub-moon that sits underneath the Earth. The moon causes the tides, and the Sub-moon balances out the effect.
I didn't write the faq, and I have yet to see any proof of that claim.
If you don't believe your own FAQ, then I suggest you take up the issue with FES. I have yet to see any evidence of your claim that Newton was 100% wrong. Since your claim came before mine, I'll let you go first in providing proof.
Newton's law of gravitation fails to predict the orbit of mercury. There is only one correct answer in science, so Newton was wrong.

You might not be aware of this, but I am barred from using the Flat Earth Believers for some reason.
Are you saying that Mercury orbits the Sun? Please tell us how Newton is wrong? What is the mass of the Sun? What is the mass of Mercury? What is distance (minimum, maximum, and mean) between the center of Mercury and the center of the Sun? Without those answers, how can you know that Newton was wrong about the orbit of Mercury. (And BTW, Newton's Law is probably still correct. History shortened his Law moving the mass of the Sun out from under the integral. Once you use his original form, his Law agrees with reality still.)

I have no control over your use of a section. You'll just have to make suggestions in whatever section FES will permit. Sorry about your luck.
I have already answered your question. Newtons's law is wrong because objects are not attracted to each-other.

Mercury travels along its own nexus ring. Read about it in FE wiki.
So now we're right back where you were a few posts ago. You claim Newton is 100%. You provide one example that you can't explain. You claim objects are not attracted to each other. You provide no evidence of that. You claim the Mercury travels along its own nexus ring, only after claiming the Mercury orbits the Sun. You don't accept the FAQ when it disagrees with your claim, and then point us to FE Wiki. Over all, you've failed epically.

There are many cases of objects being attracted to each other: Raindrops coalesce. Magnets pick up iron filings. The moons of Jupiter revolve around Jupiter. Comets and asteroids are attracted to crash on Jupiter. Don't forget I need only one counter-example to invalidate your claim that "objects are not attracted to each-other[sic]."
I don't have to provide proof that something DOESN'T happen. The burden of proof is on you to prove gravity exists. Iron fillings being picked up by a magnet is not due to gravity, and you know this too. All of your examples have nothing to do with gravity.

or?bit 
?noun
1.
the curved path, usually elliptical, described by a planet, satellite, spaceship, etc., around a celestial body, as the sun.

It just so happens that nexus rings usually are observed around planets.

Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on July 20, 2010, 04:06:17 PM
Arguing with "the burden of proof" is fail.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 20, 2010, 04:11:10 PM
Arguing with "the burden of proof" is fail.
Telling people to prove something doesn't exist is fail.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 20, 2010, 04:18:29 PM
I don't have to provide proof that something DOESN'T happen. The burden of proof is on you to prove gravity exists. Iron fillings being picked up by a magnet is not due to gravity, and you know this too. All of your examples have nothing to do with gravity.

or?bit?
?noun
1.
the curved path, usually elliptical, described by a planet, satellite, spaceship, etc., around a celestial body, as the sun.

It just so happens that nexus rings usually are observed around planets.


You must support your claims. If you claim something doesn't happen than you get to face the challenge.

Do tell us where anyone has observed these alleged nexus rings around planets, preferably in a peer-reviewed astronomy journal, please.

I love your definition BTW, especially the spaceship in orbit. When did you see a spaceship in orbit? A second citation by parsec in one thread that disproves FET is really appreciated!
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Raver on July 20, 2010, 04:45:18 PM
Arguing with "the burden of proof" is fail.
Telling people to prove something doesn't exist is fail.
Still doesn't change my statement.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 20, 2010, 05:16:11 PM
I don't have to provide proof that something DOESN'T happen. The burden of proof is on you to prove gravity exists. Iron fillings being picked up by a magnet is not due to gravity, and you know this too. All of your examples have nothing to do with gravity.

or?bit?
?noun
1.
the curved path, usually elliptical, described by a planet, satellite, spaceship, etc., around a celestial body, as the sun.

It just so happens that nexus rings usually are observed around planets.


You must support your claims. If you claim something doesn't happen than you get to face the challenge.

Do tell us where anyone has observed these alleged nexus rings around planets, preferably in a peer-reviewed astronomy journal, please.

I love your definition BTW, especially the spaceship in orbit. When did you see a spaceship in orbit? A second citation by parsec in one thread that disproves FET is really appreciated!
You are telling me gravity exists. You need to prove it. Don't they teach children anything in elementary school anymore?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 20, 2010, 05:22:28 PM
I don't have to provide proof that something DOESN'T happen. The burden of proof is on you to prove gravity exists. Iron fillings being picked up by a magnet is not due to gravity, and you know this too. All of your examples have nothing to do with gravity.

or?bit?
?noun
1.
the curved path, usually elliptical, described by a planet, satellite, spaceship, etc., around a celestial body, as the sun.

It just so happens that nexus rings usually are observed around planets.


You must support your claims. If you claim something doesn't happen than you get to face the challenge.

Do tell us where anyone has observed these alleged nexus rings around planets, preferably in a peer-reviewed astronomy journal, please.

I love your definition BTW, especially the spaceship in orbit. When did you see a spaceship in orbit? A second citation by parsec in one thread that disproves FET is really appreciated!
You are telling me gravity exists. You need to prove it. Don't they teach children anything in elementary school anymore?
Where did I tell you that gravity exists? Why would I need to prove something I didn't claim? Why don't you post another reference that disproves FET? You're really quite good at it.

Perhaps you'd like to tell us about these nexus rings that you claim exist. You need to prove it. No, they don't teach children in elementary school that there are nexus rings. They do teach that the Earth orbits the Sun though. Maybe you missed that lesson.

What is great about nexus rings is that they aren't even stable. moving about, springing up here and there, guiding comet fragments into Jupiter, and so many astonishing feats. And parsec claims they exist!
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 20, 2010, 06:26:29 PM
I don't have to provide proof that something DOESN'T happen. The burden of proof is on you to prove gravity exists. Iron fillings being picked up by a magnet is not due to gravity, and you know this too. All of your examples have nothing to do with gravity.

or?bit?
?noun
1.
the curved path, usually elliptical, described by a planet, satellite, spaceship, etc., around a celestial body, as the sun.

It just so happens that nexus rings usually are observed around planets.


You must support your claims. If you claim something doesn't happen than you get to face the challenge.

Do tell us where anyone has observed these alleged nexus rings around planets, preferably in a peer-reviewed astronomy journal, please.

I love your definition BTW, especially the spaceship in orbit. When did you see a spaceship in orbit? A second citation by parsec in one thread that disproves FET is really appreciated!
You are telling me gravity exists. You need to prove it. Don't they teach children anything in elementary school anymore?
Where did I tell you that gravity exists? Why would I need to prove something I didn't claim? Why don't you post another reference that disproves FET? You're really quite good at it.

Perhaps you'd like to tell us about these nexus rings that you claim exist. You need to prove it. No, they don't teach children in elementary school that there are nexus rings. They do teach that the Earth orbits the Sun though. Maybe you missed that lesson.

What is great about nexus rings is that they aren't even stable. moving about, springing up here and there, guiding comet fragments into Jupiter, and so many astonishing feats. And parsec claims they exist!
What reference have I posted that disproves FET? I said newton's law doesn't predict the orbit of mercury. Even if it did predict the orbit of mercury it might be false, but because it doesn't even predict the orbit of mercury it is certainly false.

No scientist has ever posted credible evidence electrically neutral objects are magically attracted to each other.

Where did you read that nexus rings are unstable ???  ???
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 20, 2010, 06:56:02 PM
What reference have I posted that disproves FET? I said newton's law doesn't predict the orbit of mercury. Even if it did predict the orbit of mercury it might be false, but because it doesn't even predict the orbit of mercury it is certainly false.

No scientist has ever posted credible evidence electrically neutral objects are magically attracted to each other.

Where did you read that nexus rings are unstable ???  ???
The definition of orbit and the RADAR citation are two of your great posting. Thanks again.

You have to face the claims you make. You said the Mercury orbited. You said that it didn't even match Newton's ULoG and yet you claim that no scientist ever posted credible evidence that electrically neutral objects are attached to each other. You seem to cite plenty of evidence that the Moon orbits the Earth.

I didn't read that nexus rings are unstable.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 20, 2010, 11:33:41 PM
What reference have I posted that disproves FET? I said newton's law doesn't predict the orbit of mercury. Even if it did predict the orbit of mercury it might be false, but because it doesn't even predict the orbit of mercury it is certainly false.

No scientist has ever posted credible evidence electrically neutral objects are magically attracted to each other.

Where did you read that nexus rings are unstable ???  ???
The definition of orbit and the RADAR citation are two of your great posting. Thanks again.

You have to face the claims you make. You said the Mercury orbited. You said that it didn't even match Newton's ULoG and yet you claim that no scientist ever posted credible evidence that electrically neutral objects are attached to each other. You seem to cite plenty of evidence that the Moon orbits the Earth.

I didn't read that nexus rings are unstable.
What made you claim "What is great about nexus rings is that they aren't even stable" then?

When have I ever claimed the moon orbits the earth  ???
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: oscpaz00 on July 20, 2010, 11:51:06 PM
Johannes, you're incredible. So Newton's laws are wrong because they didn't predict the exact movement of Mercury around the sun... But, then Mercury orbits the sun? How is this? I thought that the Sun were 3000 miles over Earth... To disprove Newton's theory you are using data provided by telescopes, astronomers and other scientists that believe the sun is larger than Earth and that that Earth is a globe! All your information comes from the sources of REs, is based in our observations and theories. You have no observations, no proofs of anything! Your map, for example... where have you take the data to make it? From the data of OUR SATELLITES, that things that, according to you, don't exist!! Do you want to prove gravity? Go to an observatory, look for yourselt at Jupiter, or Saturn... See their satellites orbiting them. What makes then orbit? If you do not do so, if you never look at the sky with anything more than your eyes, it's your problem. You tell us to prove gravity... well, I have evidence. What evidence do you have on the existence of UA? Tell me, answer me with more than "it isn't", "that's illogic" or things like that. For once, only for once, prove something!

If your theories are so good, predict me something with them. Tell me: when will happen the next solar eclipse in Spain? And please, show me your method, don't search the internet about the information that provides General Relativity or Newton's laws. If your theories don't explain anything, don't predict anything, and ours do, then our theories are better and more correct (not perfect).
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: ClockTower on July 21, 2010, 12:05:22 AM
What reference have I posted that disproves FET? I said newton's law doesn't predict the orbit of mercury. Even if it did predict the orbit of mercury it might be false, but because it doesn't even predict the orbit of mercury it is certainly false.

No scientist has ever posted credible evidence electrically neutral objects are magically attracted to each other.

Where did you read that nexus rings are unstable ???  ???
The definition of orbit and the RADAR citation are two of your great posting. Thanks again.

You have to face the claims you make. You said the Mercury orbited. You said that it didn't even match Newton's ULoG and yet you claim that no scientist ever posted credible evidence that electrically neutral objects are attached to each other. You seem to cite plenty of evidence that the Moon orbits the Earth.

I didn't read that nexus rings are unstable.
What made you claim "What is great about nexus rings is that they aren't even stable" then?

When have I ever claimed the moon orbits the earth  ???
Simple logic given my observations of the planets and their moons provide the basis for my claim that the nexus rings cannot be stable. They must move independent of the Sun, Moon and planets and recast themselves with each retrograde motion of the outer planets.

I never said that you made such a claim, did I? You have presented an excellent, peer-reviewed journal article that provides very convincing evidence that the Moon orbits the Earth and at the distance that RET says it does. Oh, and again, we thank you for the excellent effort.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: Johannes on July 21, 2010, 12:11:59 AM
What reference have I posted that disproves FET? I said newton's law doesn't predict the orbit of mercury. Even if it did predict the orbit of mercury it might be false, but because it doesn't even predict the orbit of mercury it is certainly false.

No scientist has ever posted credible evidence electrically neutral objects are magically attracted to each other.

Where did you read that nexus rings are unstable ???  ???
The definition of orbit and the RADAR citation are two of your great posting. Thanks again.

You have to face the claims you make. You said the Mercury orbited. You said that it didn't even match Newton's ULoG and yet you claim that no scientist ever posted credible evidence that electrically neutral objects are attached to each other. You seem to cite plenty of evidence that the Moon orbits the Earth.

I didn't read that nexus rings are unstable.
What made you claim "What is great about nexus rings is that they aren't even stable" then?

When have I ever claimed the moon orbits the earth  ???
Simple logic given my observations of the planets and their moons provide the basis for my claim that the nexus rings cannot be stable. They must move independent of the Sun, Moon and planets and recast themselves with each retrograde motion of the outer planets.

I never said that you made such a claim, did I? You have presented an excellent, peer-reviewed journal article that provides very convincing evidence that the Moon orbits the Earth and at the distance that RET says it does. Oh, and again, we thank you for the excellent effort.
Are you high?
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: AdmiralAckbar on July 21, 2010, 12:17:51 AM
What reference have I posted that disproves FET? I said newton's law doesn't predict the orbit of mercury. Even if it did predict the orbit of mercury it might be false, but because it doesn't even predict the orbit of mercury it is certainly false.

No scientist has ever posted credible evidence electrically neutral objects are magically attracted to each other.

Where did you read that nexus rings are unstable ???  ???
The definition of orbit and the RADAR citation are two of your great posting. Thanks again.

You have to face the claims you make. You said the Mercury orbited. You said that it didn't even match Newton's ULoG and yet you claim that no scientist ever posted credible evidence that electrically neutral objects are attached to each other. You seem to cite plenty of evidence that the Moon orbits the Earth.

I didn't read that nexus rings are unstable.
What made you claim "What is great about nexus rings is that they aren't even stable" then?

When have I ever claimed the moon orbits the earth  ???
Simple logic given my observations of the planets and their moons provide the basis for my claim that the nexus rings cannot be stable. They must move independent of the Sun, Moon and planets and recast themselves with each retrograde motion of the outer planets.

I never said that you made such a claim, did I? You have presented an excellent, peer-reviewed journal article that provides very convincing evidence that the Moon orbits the Earth and at the distance that RET says it does. Oh, and again, we thank you for the excellent effort.
Are you high?

Thanks for the low-content and unnecessary post, please be frank about your opinion and respond in an acceptable manner.
Title: Re: Why The Earth Appears Curved at a High Altitude.
Post by: vhu9644 on November 03, 2010, 08:09:30 PM
newton was not right, and einstein was only right about large objects.  newton was close however.  there are different mechanics in quantum worlds for gravity i believe

note, i am a RE believer, but im stating facts