Which way is up again?

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #120 on: August 06, 2008, 04:33:34 PM »
By definition.

Now that I've managed to confront, and correctly answer your question, feel free to answer mine.

So in an airplane, which is flying through the sky, which way is up?
RE'ers can't even figure out what they mean when they say 'up'.
So if I want to track that airplanes descent but I do not want to deal with negative numbers when looking at its displacement from its origin I am out of luck?
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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mxmm

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #121 on: August 06, 2008, 05:34:40 PM »
We do have an incredibly precise definition for up (RE'ers.) Given a polar coordinate system with the center of the earth as the origin, up is looking in a direction with increasing r. Of course, you are using Cartesian coordinates since you think the earth is flat, so I could use the same argument:

If up is up is up, then why do bubbles not always float up in a Flat Earth? With increasing r, we many times end up having up is up is left, or up is up is right. Therefore, since bubbles don't always float up in FET, it is very unscientific.

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narcberry

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #122 on: August 06, 2008, 05:52:36 PM »
3D polar coordinate system, origin'ed at the center of earth...  ::)
So this brings us back to Mars having a universal 'up' direction away from earth. This means that the universal 'up' is universal across the universe... except on earth, where it is in all directions simultaneously depending on your current position on or around earth.

Sounds like Occam definitely favors FET!

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dyno

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #123 on: August 06, 2008, 05:55:43 PM »
We know you understand us Narc and are aware you are being intentionally obtuse. Some of your previous comments allude to some kind of intellect behind that screen name.

My question, what are you really arguing about? You've gone from debating to trolling.


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mxmm

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #124 on: August 06, 2008, 06:22:46 PM »
3D polar coordinate system, origin'ed at the center of earth...  ::)
So this brings us back to Mars having a universal 'up' direction away from earth. This means that the universal 'up' is universal across the universe... except on earth, where it is in all directions simultaneously depending on your current position on or around earth.

Sounds like Occam definitely favors FET!

Ok, I tried to put it into a bite-size explanation for you, but you must realize that all Galilean Co-ordinate systems are equivalent (Galilean Co-ordinate systems are those that are in constant, non-rotational motion.) This is the main thing that Special Relativity is based on. Therefore there is no absolute up. If you are to take Special Relativity, you have to accept that too.

Go here if you want to learn about how physics works in these systems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilean_transformation

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narcberry

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #125 on: August 06, 2008, 07:32:40 PM »
So you're applying a "constant, non-rotational motion" coordinate system to a planet that is neither constant nor motionless.

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mxmm

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #126 on: August 06, 2008, 09:29:20 PM »
So you're applying a "constant, non-rotational motion" coordinate system to a planet that is neither constant nor motionless.

You are correct at that, I was just trying to describe that the laws of physics have no preference towards one direction. I admit that under a gravitational field or acceleration, they are described to be different, but we still have rules that describe those translations and they still don't care about direction. This non-Copernican view that our reference frame is THE reference frame is a naive and unscientific view, disproven hundreds of years ago, and that is my point. Up is up is no always up. It is relative.

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narcberry

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #127 on: August 06, 2008, 10:32:43 PM »
Translation:
RE defines things to be one thing under certain circumstances, and another thing in other circumstances. RE can wave it's magical wand and still be science regardless of these inconsistencies.

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mxmm

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #128 on: August 06, 2008, 10:48:19 PM »
Translation:
RE defines things to be one thing under certain circumstances, and another thing in other circumstances. RE can wave it's magical wand and still be science regardless of these inconsistencies.

No, the laws of physics do not favor one "magical" direction. It is the same thing in all circumstances, only with a different relative orientation in space. I don't know whether your original statement was serious or not, but it is certainly more than satisfactorily explained under the RE model.

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narcberry

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #129 on: August 06, 2008, 10:49:24 PM »
If it's so easily explained, why have RE'ers been avoiding my ever so simple questions?

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mxmm

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #130 on: August 06, 2008, 11:32:29 PM »
If it's so easily explained, why have RE'ers been avoiding my ever so simple questions?

I didn't avoid it, I answered it. "Up" is relative. Just like "Left" and "Right" are relative.

Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #131 on: August 06, 2008, 11:39:26 PM »
Translation:
RE defines things to be one thing under certain circumstances, and another thing in other circumstances. RE can wave it's magical wand and still be science regardless of these inconsistencies.
since when is up a scientific term anyways ???
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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narcberry

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #132 on: August 06, 2008, 11:52:51 PM »
If it's so easily explained, why have RE'ers been avoiding my ever so simple questions?

I didn't avoid it, I answered it. "Up" is relative. Just like "Left" and "Right" are relative.

So 'up' is meaningless in RE, much like every other term.

Don't worry, FE still has meaning and consistency.

Thanks for confirming this.

Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #133 on: August 06, 2008, 11:54:46 PM »
Translation:
RE defines things to be one thing under certain circumstances, and another thing in other circumstances. RE can wave it's magical wand and still be science regardless of these inconsistencies.
since when is up a scientific term anyways ???
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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dyno

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #134 on: August 07, 2008, 12:14:19 AM »
If it's so easily explained, why have RE'ers been avoiding my ever so simple questions?

I didn't avoid it, I answered it. "Up" is relative. Just like "Left" and "Right" are relative.

So 'up' is meaningless in RE, much like every other term.

Don't worry, FE still has meaning and consistency.

Thanks for confirming this.

Your question has been answered multiple times with the same response by many people. Contrast this to Fe responses which differ from post to post.

FE is consistently inconsistent. But we can't blame FE. Your failure to grasp a simple concept can't be attributed to FE theory.

Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #135 on: August 07, 2008, 01:10:00 AM »
Translation:
RE defines things to be one thing under certain circumstances, and another thing in other circumstances. RE can wave it's magical wand and still be science regardless of these inconsistencies.


Replace RE with FE and that statement still stands. Especially with UA Theory.

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markjo

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #136 on: August 07, 2008, 05:48:12 AM »
If it's so easily explained, why have RE'ers been avoiding my ever so simple questions?

I didn't avoid it, I answered it. "Up" is relative. Just like "Left" and "Right" are relative.

So 'up' is meaningless in RE, much like every other term.

Don't worry, FE still has meaning and consistency.

Thanks for confirming this.

So, which way is left in FE?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #137 on: August 07, 2008, 07:45:35 AM »
Regardless of whether we talk about FE or RE, left is still a relative position.

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markjo

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #138 on: August 07, 2008, 07:59:31 AM »
Regardless of whether we talk about FE or RE, left is still a relative position.

Actually, I was asking Narcberry (since he is the one confused about relative directions), but thanks for playing anyways.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #139 on: August 07, 2008, 08:02:07 AM »
Regardless of whether we talk about FE or RE, left is still a relative position.

Actually, I was asking Narcberry (since he is the one confused about relative directions), but thanks for playing anyways.

Ah, I see your point.  We can play semantics all day long.  I think I'll vacate this thread.

Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #140 on: August 07, 2008, 12:59:22 PM »
1: A bubble will go up in China
2: A bubble will go up in the United States
3: If the earth is round, bubbles will rise outwards from the earth
4: Since bubbles always rise up, the earth cannot be round



This has to be the single most retarded thing ive ever read. Congratulations.
What about an inside-out or banana shaped earth...
90-42 does not equal 48. You fail

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narcberry

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #141 on: August 07, 2008, 03:09:39 PM »
I know, RET is pretty ridiculous. I'm very happy someone else can recognize it for what it is.

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mxmm

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #142 on: August 07, 2008, 07:21:06 PM »
I know, RET is pretty ridiculous. I'm very happy someone else can recognize it for what it is.

I don't think you are serious, but in case you really didn't understand what he was saying, he was saying your argument (against RE) was retarded. Just clarifying...

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narcberry

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #143 on: August 07, 2008, 07:52:43 PM »
Actually he was saying that RET is retarded because it can't tell which way up is.
And I completely agree.

Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #144 on: August 07, 2008, 07:58:31 PM »
Actually he was saying that RET is retarded because it can't tell which way up is.
And I completely agree.
what are you talking about? Every time I solve a problem I know exactly which direction is "up"
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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dyno

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #145 on: August 07, 2008, 08:01:56 PM »
Actually he was saying that RET is retarded because it can't tell which way up is.
And I completely agree.

Do the rest of you think Narc is even aware of his statements and how incredibly alone he is with this topic?

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narcberry

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #146 on: August 07, 2008, 08:03:00 PM »
what are you talking about? Every time I solve a problem I know exactly which direction is "up"

How can you?

In RE up changes (taken from you RE'ers in this thread):
1) with your mood, as it can mean anything you want it to be
2) with your location on earth, and is different for every geographical point
3) with your altitude
4) with your heads position
5) with your company

I'd like you to show how you keep all 5 of those constant during your problem solving.

Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #147 on: August 07, 2008, 08:09:00 PM »
what are you talking about? Every time I solve a problem I know exactly which direction is "up"

How can you?

In RE up changes (taken from you RE'ers in this thread):
1) with your mood, as it can mean anything you want it to be
2) with your location on earth, and is different for every geographical point
3) with your altitude
4) with your heads position
5) with your company

I'd like you to show how you keep all 5 of those constant during your problem solving.
give me a problem in FE or RE and I will Show you "up"
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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dyno

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #148 on: August 07, 2008, 08:11:01 PM »
Cbarnett: he isn't looking for proof or problem solving. He is trolling.

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narcberry

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Re: Which way is up again?
« Reply #149 on: August 07, 2008, 08:13:18 PM »


Which direction is up based on RET? (That means explain why your answer is based on RET)