The tides

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: The tides
« Reply #60 on: March 25, 2007, 09:20:38 AM »
The gravitation from the moon causes the tides in FE.

Could you define gravitation? Is it an illusion, force, or simply a way of getting rid of gravity where you need to and keeping it where it helps?
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TheEngineer

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Re: The tides
« Reply #61 on: March 25, 2007, 09:40:32 AM »
Gravity is a pseudo force invented to deal with a non inertial frame of reference.  Gravitation is what keeps you on the ground.


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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: The tides
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2007, 09:56:27 AM »
Yes, that is what you have said previously. Am I to understand that gravitation is in fact the sensation of gravity but instead of being caused by gravity it is caused by the uniform acceleration of the planet?

If so, what is this?
"Gravitation is the influence that all objects have on each other"
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TheEngineer

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Re: The tides
« Reply #63 on: March 25, 2007, 10:17:45 AM »
Gravity is not a force - attractive or otherwise.  Gravitation is the acceleration of objects.  In FE, the acceleration of the earth causes objects to experience gravitation, and in the RE, the acceleration of the objects causes the gravitation, meaning, they are one in the same.




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Re: The tides
« Reply #64 on: March 25, 2007, 10:19:54 AM »
Except in FE theory it is uniform, in real life it is not.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: The tides
« Reply #65 on: March 25, 2007, 11:33:09 AM »
Gravity is not a force - attractive or otherwise.  Gravitation is the acceleration of objects.  In FE, the acceleration of the earth causes objects to experience gravitation, and in the RE, the acceleration of the objects causes the gravitation, meaning, they are one in the same.

Did you not previously say gravity was a fictitious force?
If gravitation is the acceleration of objects, how is the moon affecting Earth with it?
How does the RE model use gravitation? (what objects?) RE model uses gravity because it is not believed to be fictitious.

Perhaps I am miscommunicating. Sorry, but please be patient with me. :P
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

Re: The tides
« Reply #66 on: March 25, 2007, 12:29:52 PM »
how can gravity be a 'fictitious' force????  It's obviously not, as the earth (whether round or flat) has a gravitational field.  This has been proved since the 17th century.  Hmm...it's kinda ironic, but I would think that disproving the flat earth hypothesis (not a theory) is much easier/feasible/logical than trying to prove that gravity in fact does not exist.  But, then again, i'm a RE believer, so what do i know...

Re: The tides
« Reply #67 on: March 25, 2007, 12:31:10 PM »
Uh oh.

Re: The tides
« Reply #68 on: March 25, 2007, 12:32:13 PM »
also, to TheEngineer, who invented gravity?  surely you won't bring the government into that......will you?

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: The tides
« Reply #69 on: March 25, 2007, 12:56:47 PM »
I am not arrogant. I am quite aware that there are plenty of things I am ignorant about, and that's why I hang out with other smart people, many of which are smarter than I am (not on this board, on Skype and on my own board). My wife is smarter than I am. She keeps me humble.

Whats your board? Can I join it? ;D


(sorry for taking off topic folks, ignore me)
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Franc T., Planar

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Re: The tides
« Reply #70 on: March 25, 2007, 05:36:12 PM »
I am not arrogant. I am quite aware that there are plenty of things I am ignorant about, and that's why I hang out with other smart people, many of which are smarter than I am (not on this board, on Skype and on my own board). My wife is smarter than I am. She keeps me humble.

Whats your board? Can I join it? ;D

http://www.graveyardofthegods.com/forum/

And yes. Everyone can JOIN. Whether you'll want to stay or not, however, depends on the kind of board experience you're looking for.

We have NO censorship. None whatsoever. Very few rules. Pretty much anything is allowed. And we don't try to be polite to people.

But if you are an atheist or anarchist, then you'll be welcome- as long as you can stand criticism.
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: The tides
« Reply #71 on: March 25, 2007, 05:39:46 PM »
Woohoo! I love no censorship!!! I'm joining ;D
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Franc T., Planar

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Re: The tides
« Reply #72 on: March 25, 2007, 05:47:22 PM »
Also, when PhpBB finally upgrades to a two-tier system, our board will become the first board run like a Market Anarchy. All sub-forums will be user-ran and administrated.
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: The tides
« Reply #73 on: March 25, 2007, 05:48:46 PM »
Cool. Well I've joined....
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If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
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there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

Re: The tides
« Reply #74 on: March 25, 2007, 06:02:41 PM »
I will have fun with the nutters

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Franc T., Planar

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Re: The tides
« Reply #75 on: March 25, 2007, 06:04:52 PM »
What nutters?
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: The tides
« Reply #76 on: March 25, 2007, 06:11:41 PM »
Well.......
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If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
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there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

Re: The tides
« Reply #77 on: March 25, 2007, 06:16:12 PM »
What nutters?

Well you for starters Frenchy me old mucker!

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Franc T., Planar

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Re: The tides
« Reply #78 on: March 25, 2007, 06:20:34 PM »
I am not a nutter.
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: The tides
« Reply #79 on: March 25, 2007, 06:22:19 PM »
I am not a nutter.

Oh dear..he's in denial
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If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
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Re: The tides
« Reply #80 on: March 25, 2007, 06:28:41 PM »
It's not just a river in Egypt you know Frenchy.

Re: The tides
« Reply #81 on: March 25, 2007, 07:58:21 PM »
The thing about the tides is, because the moon orbits the earth, the tides follow the moon in one direction. For example, tidal levels would move from East to West, like a gigantic rolling wave. This is because that's the path the moon traces overhead, and both sides of the camp agree to that. So, in a round earth, the tides follow the path of the moon.

Rowbotham's sloshing analogy is a fallacy because that would mean that the tides would go from East to West, then West to East, reversing direction each day, which they do not. Therefore, the evidence of the tides does not add up to the predictions of the Flat Earth model.

I've seen other Flat Earther's admit that the moon does in fact cause the tides due to gravitation. However, Francerty and the Engineer like to point out that there is no force of gravity, and the acceleration of the earth through space is what causes the sense of gravitation, as inertia and gravity are indistinguishable in some cases.

This is impossible for several reasons. First, that would mean that the other stellar objects cannot exhibit gravitational forces either, meaning that the moon is not responsible for tidal action. The earth and the moon are both matter (moon rocks have been carried back to earth, and for the more die-hard conspiracy theorists, we have found them falling Earth as well) so one can safely conjecture that they both have the same physical properties. A blueberry pie and a strawberry pie are different, but they are both pies with crust and sweet, sweet filling.

Next, the constant acceleration theory is directly at odds with several well-established mathematical principles, such as General Relativity and the laws of thermodynamics. In relativity terms, a constant acceleration means that velocity will eventually surpass that of C (300 000 km/s), which is impossible and would make all sorts of weird things happen like infinite linear compression and mass. This has been proven in particle accelerators where subatomic particles which weigh trillionths of a pound have been pushed to 97% the speed of light, where they then have a mass of several kilograms!

Also, in order to have a constant acceleration, you need to have a proportionally increasing energy source to cause the acceleration. All the energy in the universe cannot push something past the speed of light, so the earth cannot be experiencing constant acceleration.
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TheEngineer

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Re: The tides
« Reply #82 on: March 25, 2007, 08:47:45 PM »
In relativity terms, a constant acceleration means that velocity will eventually surpass that of C (300 000 km/s), which is impossible and would make all sorts of weird things happen like infinite linear compression and mass.
Nice to see you have no idea what relativity states.


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TheEngineer

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Re: The tides
« Reply #83 on: March 25, 2007, 08:51:12 PM »
Did you not previously say gravity was a fictitious force?
Yes, I did.  Gravity is not a force, it is a made up 'force' to deal with being in a non inertial frame of reference.

Quote
If gravitation is the acceleration of objects, how is the moon affecting Earth with it?
How does the RE model use gravitation? (what objects?) RE model uses gravity because it is not believed to be fictitious.
The RE model currently used EXPLICITLY states that gravity is not a force.  Gravitation is due to the deformation of space.


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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: The tides
« Reply #84 on: March 26, 2007, 01:53:51 AM »
Why dont you retort to what RAmenbrother said Engineer or has he got you there?
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TheEngineer

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Re: The tides
« Reply #85 on: March 26, 2007, 02:06:43 AM »
I've responded to his post in another thread, as he chose to post the same thing in multiple threads.


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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: The tides
« Reply #86 on: March 26, 2007, 02:08:13 AM »
Oh right, what thread is that?
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TheEngineer

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Re: The tides
« Reply #87 on: March 26, 2007, 02:10:10 AM »
FE gravity and how it relates to the speed of light.


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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: The tides
« Reply #88 on: March 26, 2007, 02:18:45 AM »
You do you like trying to patronise people when you answer them...reading through that thread and the way you were replying to him doesn't paint you in a good light
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If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
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there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

Re: The tides
« Reply #89 on: March 26, 2007, 05:30:46 AM »
Patronising people is his defence tactic; makes him feel like he's more in the right.

Also, in a universe of Einsteinian gravity, where any given shape will try and compress into a sphere over time (guess what: like a planet!). Give anything billions of years, and it'll take the most uniform shape: a sphere. That's why the planets are round, why the sun is round (and constantly undergoing fusion: something that no 32-mile diameter object can naturally do), and why every other stellar body that is larger than an asteroid is mostly round. An easy way to prove this is suspending a water droplet in zero gravity. It'll automatically assume a spherical shape. Granted, that's more due to water's "sticky" nature, but stellar bodies will exhibit those properties given enough time.

I mean, patronising is all these people have. They need to convince themselves that they are the saints of this underdog theory in a world of deceit and corruption. However, there's a reason the round earth theory is very, very much the majority: because there's an overwhelming amount of evidence of it. Oh, wait: it's all been made up by the countries that are currently at war, fighting over nuclear rights, or just bugged by different systems of government. Some pretty good international cooperation there.

Speaking of different systems of government, did you know that ancient Chinese cartographers (and other Asian countries as well) used the South Pole as the top of their maps? Well that wouldn't work at all, now would it? Given that the earth is flat and there IS no south pole. Yeah, the Chinese must have been total idiots, even though they were the first to invent the compass and other quite important devices.

Seriously, come on FE'ers. Just admit that, even by your definition of proof, you have far less to build your point on, and all your hypotheses are simply extensions of known physics that you choose to feed into a flat world model. Never mind that a magnetic field would not occur the way it actually does in your FE model. The vatican took the exact same stance against the scientific method during the struggle against the Heliocentric universe: they came up with very elaborate models to explain away the very-much-in-Copernicus-and-Galileo's-favour motion of the stars and sun, but ultimately failed because... well, the earth is round, man.
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