Stop Begging the Question

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RESOCR

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Stop Begging the Question
« on: March 11, 2007, 12:42:38 PM »
Simple question. How do you know the conspiracy exists? And don't say 'It must, because that's the only way the earth could possibly be flat!' I would tell you to read the topic title faster than you could link to the FAQ. And in the ever-persistent way of FE denying everything without an enormous amount of proof, if you cant prove the conspiracy, it will have less validity than how FE holds pictures from the ISS.
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

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GeoGuy

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2007, 12:43:29 PM »
The Earth is flat, the world's governments say it isn't. Obviously they must be lying.

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2007, 12:46:08 PM »
Why would the world lie to us?
What do they get out of it....?
How does that help them get more money?
I under stand the part the government wants more money?
But why would they lie?
What do they really gain from lying about the shape of the world?

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GeoGuy

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2007, 12:47:56 PM »
Read the Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium. A link to which can be found in the FAQ.

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RESOCR

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Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2007, 12:50:27 PM »
The Earth is flat, the world's governments say it isn't. Obviously they must be lying.

Begging the question. The earth being flat is the question of the site, therefore unacceptable as proof.
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

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GeoGuy

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2007, 12:51:30 PM »
Fine, let me rephrase my answer. If the Earth is flat there is a conspiracy. It is simply a prediction made by the FE model.

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2007, 12:52:01 PM »
That article was really interesting it helped alot...

Although I still have trouble understanding....
If the world government already controls us...
What do they gain by the lie?

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GeoGuy

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2007, 12:52:50 PM »
Well that's the question, isn't it?

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RESOCR

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Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2007, 12:55:12 PM »
Fine, let me rephrase my answer. If the Earth is flat there is a conspiracy. It is simply a prediction made by the FE model.

And for the earth to be proven flat, there must be a conspiracy. Using claim A as evidence to prove B true, while B must be true to prove A is I believe the definition of begging the question. Make A the conspiracy and B FE theory, and you have this site. So if it is not definite fact, it cannot be proof. As the status of the conspiracy relies on the earth being flat (which is the thing in question) it should not be viable evidence.

And your post(s) even say you do not have concrete reasoning for why there would be conspiracy.
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

?

GeoGuy

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2007, 12:57:01 PM »
No, Earth can be flat and there be no conspiracy. It's just that if it is flat there is a conspiracy.

If a then b (If the Earth is flat there must be a conspiracy).

We have a, so it naturally follows that we must have b as well.

How is this not logical?

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RESOCR

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Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2007, 12:58:47 PM »
No, Earth can be flat and there be no conspiracy.

But don't you require the conspiracy to fabricate all pictures from space?

And if a then b is not logical, because half of the rebuttals on this site require b to be true, in trying to prove a.
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

?

GeoGuy

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2007, 12:59:33 PM »
No they don't. I have yet to see the conspiracy used to prove a single thing not directly related to the governments or government funded programs.

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RESOCR

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Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2007, 01:04:21 PM »
No they don't. I have yet to see the conspiracy used to prove a single thing not directly related to the governments or government funded programs.

You use it all the time to dismiss photographical evidence.
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

?

GeoGuy

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2007, 01:05:11 PM »
No we don't. We dismiss photographical evidence-for either side- on the grounds that it is too easily faked.

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RESOCR

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Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2007, 01:07:48 PM »
And that means NASA doesn't go into space and fabricates all the photographs. Sounds like a conspiracy to me!

And of course, for you to prove all the photographs are fake, requires the earth to be flat.
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

?

RESOCR

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Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2007, 01:11:08 PM »
C'mon geoguy, I just saw ya reading this thread! Not enough time to educate a dumb bastard like me?
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

?

GeoGuy

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2007, 01:59:50 PM »
None of this matters, RESOCR. If Earth is flat a conspiracy obviously exists. If Earth is not flat there is naturally no conspiracy. We FE's believe that Earth has been proven to be flat, this means a conspiracy exists. Why a conspiracy exists, or how said conspiracy exists is entirely irrelevant.

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RESOCR

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Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2007, 02:05:17 PM »
None of this matters, RESOCR. If Earth is flat a conspiracy obviously exists. If Earth is not flat there is naturally no conspiracy. We FE's believe that Earth has been proven to be flat, this means a conspiracy exists. Why a conspiracy exists, or how said conspiracy exists is entirely irrelevant.

but A CONSPIRACY must exist in order for photographical evidence to not be allowed. There needs to be a conspiracy to edit said photos, doesn't there? So if FE argued without any sort of conspiracy, the first picture from the Space Shuttle would shut this site down.
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

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Tom Bishop

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2007, 02:17:20 PM »
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but A CONSPIRACY must exist in order for photographical evidence to not be allowed. There needs to be a conspiracy to edit said photos, doesn't there? So if FE argued without any sort of conspiracy, the first picture from the Space Shuttle would shut this site down.

The origins of the Conspiracy have been well documented by Samuel Birley Robotham, Samuel Shenton, et all.

See this thread on the subject: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=11233.0

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2007, 02:24:05 PM »
RESOCR, you have no clue what you're talking about. The flat Earth conspiracy is nothing more than simple logic. If the pictures are of a round Earth, then they must be fake. If the pictures are fake, then SOMEBODY must be faking them. I don't see what problems you have with that?


~D-Draw

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RESOCR

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Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2007, 02:32:00 PM »
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but A CONSPIRACY must exist in order for photographical evidence to not be allowed. There needs to be a conspiracy to edit said photos, doesn't there? So if FE argued without any sort of conspiracy, the first picture from the Space Shuttle would shut this site down.

The origins of the Conspiracy have been well documented by Samuel Birley Robotham, Samuel Shenton, et all.

See this thread on the subject: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=11233.0

But the conspiracy started well before 1670 (when the first accurate radius of the earth was calculated). In fact, it stretched well back into BC. With no apparent purpose, and more importantly, no proof whatsoever for the hundreds of years it's supposedly been around.

That is, excepting the fact that the proof you have is that the world is flat. Which I'm saying isn't proof at all.


Diego, what if the pictures of a round earth were just that- actual pictures of a round earth? You are saying they are fake because they are pictures of a round earth, as proof of a flat earth, when the earth must be flat to begin with for them to be fake. It's all begging the question.

"The pictures aren't of a flat earth! So they have to be fake! Since the pictures are fake, that proves a conspiracy that (...) proves the earth is round!"

Thats like saying pictures of China are fake, because China cant exist, then saying that china cant exist because there are no pictures of it. ALMOST EXACTLY what you're trying to say!
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

?

Tom Bishop

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2007, 02:53:53 PM »
Quote
But the conspiracy started well before 1670 (when the first accurate radius of the earth was calculated). In fact, it stretched well back into BC. With no apparent purpose, and more importantly, no proof whatsoever for the hundreds of years it's supposedly been around.

The exact date of the Conspiracy's birth is unknown. It was presumed to have started sometime during the early 1800's to combat the skeptical Flat Earth Societies forming in England. Early conspirators were known to have close ties with William IV. By promoting the uneducated ideas of a Round Earth, the Conspiracy has profited to the order of trillions of dollars.

We do know that the Conspiracy did not come up with the idea for a Round Earth themselves. It's true that the idea for a Round Earth had been floating around for millennia beforehand. The Conspiracy simply latched onto an an existing theory and prostituted around for its own dubious purposes.

Quote
That is, excepting the fact that the proof you have is that the world is flat. Which I'm saying isn't proof at all.

All of the proof you need is in the Flat Earth Literature. Open your eyes for a second and remove your head out of the gutter. Do a little thinking for once in your life and come to your own conclusions independent of the propaganda NASA has fed you since the age of three.

The Flat Earth has been proven time and time again. The proof is overwhelming. In its literature the proof for a Flat Earth is demonstrated through mathematics, geology, chemistry, physics, logic, anthropology, astronomy, and geography.

James Clark Ross saw the Ice Wall for himself. His journals are preserved under glass by the University of Livermore. Nothing you say can take away from his nautical accounts. Flat Earth Proponents have been in direct conflict with the Conspiracy for hundreds of years. The evidence is out on the table. It's up to you to decide whether or not you want to break away from the herd and realize the truth.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2007, 03:38:07 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2007, 02:59:10 PM »
Tom you lose at debate.

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RESOCR

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Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2007, 05:11:34 PM »
All of the proof you need is in the Flat Earth Literature. Open your eyes for a second and remove your head out of the gutter. Do a little thinking for once in your life and come to your own conclusions independent of the propaganda NASA has fed you since the age of three.

I have, a couple days after I joined this site. I asked many questions here, read flat earth information, and left unsatisfied. None of the explanations are as complete as those for RE. My entire with FE so far has been scientifically sub-par. My own independent conclusion are that the earth is round, but not even RE model is as complete as anyone says. Neither model is, and I doubt neither will be for awhile.
Quote from: ice wall gard 469320
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2007, 05:57:28 AM »
None of this matters, RESOCR. If Earth is flat a conspiracy obviously exists. If Earth is not flat there is naturally no conspiracy. We FE's believe that Earth has been proven to be flat, this means a conspiracy exists. Why a conspiracy exists, or how said conspiracy exists is entirely irrelevant.

Not true.  If Earth is not flat, a conspiracy can still exist albeit with possibly different motives.
Quote from: Raist
One thing we have learned is don't fuck around in Africa. It leads to bad.

Re: Stop Begging the Question
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2007, 06:04:22 AM »
Anyone else think the old Tom was better?