When will RE Community Accept Defeat?

Plat Terra, what you're doing is called moving goalposts, and it is another act of fallacious logic. (please read up on it here: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/129/Moving-the-Goalposts )

When are you going to get it through that immensely thick skull of yours that this delusion is nothing more than a fantasy?

No, it all has to do with your sunset post but in detail. You did leave out some important issues and I am still working on a graph. So, it's all related.

In the videos I posted did the Sun exit from bottom up?

I still can't work out what you mean by "exit from bottom up". The real sun gets hidden by the horizon bottom first as does the moon.

But until you admit that the sun and moon do not change in angular over a day or night we're done here!
Sure, the sun can appear to shrink when you are looking at the glare but if you are relying on that you are only deceiving yourself!

How many times are you going to igmore this video (by a flat earther,  I might add!):
He takes good photos and videos showing that the sun and moon do not change in angular size from rising (or not long after) to setting (or not long before).
take a look at:

Flat Earth - The Size Of The Sun, Matrix Decode

Quote from: Gumwars on September 07, 2019, 09:32:33 PM

Plat Terra, what you're doing is called moving goalposts, and it is another act of fallacious logic. (please read up on it here: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/129/Moving-the-Goalposts )

When are you going to get it through that immensely thick skull of yours that this delusion is nothing more than a fantasy?

No, it all has to do with your sunset post but in detail. You did leave out some important issues and I am still working on a graph. So, it's all related.

A  graph can't prove anything!
Get outside and watch a real moonrise or moonset or get a suitable filter and see for yourself  what the real sun does.

Near sunset you can safely look at and photograph the sun. Go and look at and learn to use a good camera and photograph it yourself.

This sort of thing! A couple of stills of the sun setting over the ocean at Weipa in Queensland:

Sun near setting at Weipa

Sunset at Weipa

Quote from: Gumwars on September 07, 2019, 09:32:33 PM

Plat Terra, what you're doing is called moving goalposts, and it is another act of fallacious logic. (please read up on it here: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/129/Moving-the-Goalposts )

When are you going to get it through that immensely thick skull of yours that this delusion is nothing more than a fantasy?

No, it all has to do with your sunset post but in detail. You did leave out some important issues and I am still working on a graph. So, it's all related.

We're up to 60 pages of you moving goalposts, Plat.  You have yet to prove any point you've made.  The sunset deal is yet another goalpost.  It started with proving elevation on a curved surface.  Then we saw you go on a NASA tangent, then the Suez canal, objects obscured by the horizon, Sigma Octantis, and now sunrises/sunsets - Each and every time you are debunked and your response:

Toss out a meme and move to another topic. 

The greatest danger is not ignorance...it is being ignorant of your own ignorance.  That's you Plat.  You don't know that you're missing huge chunks of information; worse yet, you think you actually know something.

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 07, 2019, 08:58:19 PM

In the videos I posted did the Sun exit from bottom up?

I still can't work out what you mean by "exit from bottom up". The real sun gets hidden by the horizon bottom first as does the moon.

But until you admit that the sun and moon do not change in angular over a day or night we're done here!
Sure, the sun can appear to shrink when you are looking at the glare but if you are relying on that you are only deceiving yourself!

How many times are you going to igmore this video (by a flat earther,  I might add!):
He takes good photos and videos showing that the sun and moon do not change in angular size from rising (or not long after) to setting (or not long before).
take a look at:

Flat Earth - The Size Of The Sun, Matrix Decode

You’re not stupid, you know exactly what I mean. “Does it appear to darken from bottom up like in your beloved videos and pictures.”  No it doesn’t.

This Earth has various types of sunsets and only one fits your theory and the others don’t. You know, the ones you cherry pick and reject and say this one proves Earth is a sphere.  We accept them all and study them and learn and don’t say your chosen one is fake and try to explain it away. We have no reason to do so.  We know the Earth is a Plane without the issue of sunsets. I know why it appears to go over a curve and hope to articulate it soon.

What really ticks me off,  is most of what your guys claim as actually proof of a sphere is really inconclusive and you know it, but you push it anyway as absolute truth. This is so deceitful, shameful, unethical and intellectually dishonest.  And it goes on with NASA’s lies you guys defend. You can tell they fake videos but can’t admit it because you can’t stand to be wrong on this issue and don’t want to lose. And so on…………………………       
                     
Oh, no, I have not ignored the video you posted. It has been very helpful as you will see. Thank you!

Wow, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Just in case you missed it.

Quote from: rabinoz on September 07, 2019, 05:57:03 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 07, 2019, 04:56:43 PM

What's the distance to the sun from the viewer at Sunset, sunset?

You're supposed to be the flat earth expert!
You tell us the distance to the sun from the viewer at sunrise, when overhead  and at sunset?

I'm not a Flat Earth expert. But I am proof that someone with a high school education can school you guys with degrees of education because your belief is a fallacy. That doesn't really look good for you and your theory, does it?

Quote from: rabinoz on September 07, 2019, 09:44:34 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 07, 2019, 08:58:19 PM

In the videos I posted did the Sun exit from bottom up?

I still can't work out what you mean by "exit from bottom up". The real sun gets hidden by the horizon bottom first as does the moon.

But until you admit that the sun and moon do not change in angular over a day or night we're done here!
Sure, the sun can appear to shrink when you are looking at the glare but if you are relying on that you are only deceiving yourself!

How many times are you going to igmore this video (by a flat earther,  I might add!):
He takes good photos and videos showing that the sun and moon do not change in angular size from rising (or not long after) to setting (or not long before).
take a look at:

Flat Earth - The Size Of The Sun, Matrix Decode

You’re not stupid, you know exactly what I mean. “Does the appear to darken from bottom up like in your beloved videos and pictures.”  No it doesn’t.

This Earth has various types of sunsets and only one fits your theory and the others don’t. You know, the ones you cherry pick and reject and say this one proves Earth is a sphere. 

No, this Earth does not have various types of sunsets.
They might appear different because of different atmospheric condition such as clouds, heat haze, and mirages but that is simply their appearance.

We accept them all and study them and learn and don’t say your chosen one is fake and try to explain it away.

I never said any were fake and I gave simple reasons why they appeared as they did. I could show you some weird ones, like this:


A Strange Sunrise Over Argentina
Image Credit & Copyright: Luis Argerich

We have no reason to do so.  We know the Earth is a Plane without the issue of sunsets. I know why it appears to go over a curve and hope to articulate it soon.

You cannot claim to "know the Earth is a Plane".
You don't even know the a "continental layout" that works, you don't have an accurate map, you can't explain the southern star rotation,  etc, etc!

What really ticks me off,  is most of what your guys claim as actually proof of a sphere is really inconclusive and you know it,

Sorry, but there's nothing inconclusive about it!

No other shape fits all we know about the earth, including, but not limited to:
     It's measurements cannot fit a flat plane. I've mentioned this but you ignore it.
     The real earth can have no edges that cannot be crossed. I've mentioned this but you ignore it.
     The paths of the Sun, Moon, planets and stars cannot be reconciled with a flat earth.
     The Sun, Moon, planets and stars cannot be close, as a few thousand kilometres above the earth. I've raised this but you ignore it.
Etc, etc.

but you push it anyway as absolute truth.

Not so! THE TRUTH is a flat earther's claim as you proved with your "We know the Earth is a Plane".

ALL we claim is that there is far more evidence than needed to claim that the Earth is a Globe beyond any reasonable doubt.

This is so deceitful, shameful, unethical and intellectually dishonest.

Stop pretending that you have the high ground when you've done little more than post deceptive memes that prove your own ignorance of the Globe and how it work.

In this very thread you've proven noting more that your own stubborn ignorance!

And it goes on with NASA’s lies you guys defend. You can tell they fake videos but can’t admit it because you can’t stand to be wrong on this issue and don’t want to lose. And so on…………………………       

       
See, you simply have to claim that not only NASA lies but so must millions more because a great many jobs would be far different were the earth flat!

These include all international Airline Crew, all ocean going ships' navigators, all geodetic surveyors all involved in the now massive Space industry and all profession and amateur astronomers. 

And you've never proven that NASA lies! All you post is an attempt at ridicule that falls flat because of your own ignorance of the issues involved!

Come down off your high horse and face reality!
.

Oh, no, I have not ignored the video you posted. It has been very helpful as you will see. Thank you!

I see more deception coming up in the form of stupid meaningless meme's.

But, whatever fiction you dream up, the answer to "When will RE Community Accept Defeat?" will be NEVER because you are not addressing your pathetic complaints to the "RE Community"!

Sorry about that !

Sweet dreams !

Just in case you missed it.

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 07, 2019, 07:11:00 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on September 07, 2019, 05:57:03 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 07, 2019, 04:56:43 PM

What's the distance to the sun from the viewer at Sunset, sunset?

You're supposed to be the flat earth expert!
You tell us the distance to the sun from the viewer at sunrise, when overhead  and at sunset?

I'm not a Flat Earth expert.

Well you pretend to be, so I repeat, "You tell us the distance to the sun from the viewer at sunrise, when overhead  and at sunset?"
Because you can hardly discuss sunrises, sunsets or the change in the angular size of the sun (or moon) without knowing those.

But I am proof that someone with a high school education can school you guys with degrees of education because your belief is a fallacy. That doesn't really look good for you and your theory, does it?

I assume you failed high school physics, maths, logic and have never learnt anything about photography - it shows!

You seem to know nothing of "our theory" so you would hardly know.

You've either been dreaming or smoking weed if you think that you've "school us guys with degrees of education because our belief is a fallacy".

You've never shown, other than in dreamland, that "our belief is a fallacy" - mind you we have had to brush up on a few things so thanks for that!

Sweet dreams, again!

This Earth has various types of sunsets and only one fits your theory and the others don’t. You know, the ones you cherry pick and reject and say this one proves Earth is a sphere.  We accept them all and study them and learn and don’t say your chosen one is fake and try to explain it away. We have no reason to do so.  We know the Earth is a Plane without the issue of sunsets. I know why it appears to go over a curve and hope to articulate it soon.

See Plat, you've got it in reverse again, you need to flip the script. It's as simple as this:

Globe Earth can quite handily explain this observation, Rab and others already did:



However, FE cannot explain this observation to save its life:



FE has no adequate explanation for how a 3000 mile high, 32 mile wide sun does not shrink down to a pinpoint as it recedes from the viewer. FE cannot explain how the non-shrinking sun slips down smoothly below the horizon only to pop up behind you in reverse fashion some 12 or so hours later, like clockwork, literally, every day for every person on earth.

- Globe Earth can explain any and all sunset observations
- Flat earth cannot

Simple as that.

You don't like responding to my posts, do you, plat? Do my posts terrorise you?

Nobody here is interested in your sunset photos  or videos where there is heavy cloud, fog, dust, or other atmospheric phenomenon between the viewer and the sun. We are are talking about clear sky sunsets and sunrises. Clear sky sunsets and sunrises particularly over the ocean, that clearly show what is occurring at the horizon and with the sun.

Rabinoz can corroborate me on this. I look up in the sky this afternoon, and the sun is at 10 O'clock and the crescent moon at 2 o'clock. How can the sun and moon co-exist together in the daytime sky at such close proximity on your flat earth model?

I agree you've schooled us all with the fantastical mindset and educational level of the average flat earther, plat, and how radicalisation works. In that regards it has been educational, and I'm grateful. But, don't for a second think you've schooled anyone here on what is real in regards to this planet. You have racked up 60 forum pages of debate loss, one after the next.

Earth being a sphere isn't just a theory, champ.

Knowledge, my own observation and common sense. Don't you and I live in and breathe the same layer of atmosphere? Isn’t the atmosphere dense with water vapor, rain, fog, and smog?  I live in the USA, how far away do you live?

No, it isn't. Not after you get to any significant height.
The FE sun is only meant to be 5000 km high. Even with it setting 10 000 km away, it will only pass through a very insignificant amount of atmosphere.

And again, we know that isn't the issue, because we can still see it clearly on the horizon.
But yes, it should be a massive issue for FE, with the horizon not existing and instead just having a blur as the atmosphere scatters all the light.

So another nail in the coffin of FE.

I'm not a Flat Earth expert. But I am proof that someone with a high school education can school you guys with degrees of education because your belief is a fallacy. That doesn't really look good for you and your theory, does it?

You mean you are proof that any idiot can come along and spout a load of garbage and repeatedly have their ass handed to them, yet still ignore it all and pretend they have defeated the RE.

You are yet to show a single problem with the reality of a RE and you are yet to defend the idea of a FE from the many problems with it.
But you keep sticking to your delusions of grandeur.

That doesn't really look good for you and your nonsense does it?

Just in case you missed it.

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 07, 2019, 07:11:00 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on September 07, 2019, 05:57:03 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 07, 2019, 04:56:43 PM

What's the distance to the sun from the viewer at Sunset, sunset?

You're supposed to be the flat earth expert!
You tell us the distance to the sun from the viewer at sunrise, when overhead  and at sunset?

I'm not a Flat Earth expert. But I am proof that someone with a high school education can school you guys with degrees of education because your belief is a fallacy. That doesn't really look good for you and your theory, does it?

You haven't schooled anyone. You've been shot down multiple times and shown that you don't understand the subject.

Wow, the light gets darker at the end of the tunnel, yet they're the same wattage.  Imagine that. How can that be? I bet if that tunnel was just 400 feet long it would be dark at the end with the lights on all the way to the end.  We might see a bit of twilight, don't you think?

How can this be related to a Sunset looking through thousands of miles of atmosphere? 

Wow so much i missed.
But i ll pick on this one as i see it was overlooked (unless i missed that too).

Wattage is a power.
You need to learn your units.
Power from the source will leave the source and expand out.
That power is then divided by the surface area of the spread pattern.
The light at the tunnel entrance is coming in at all angles.
You standing there gets the brunt.
You standing waaaay back only see the few rays that flew straight to your eye.
All other rays were at funny angles that ended up hitting the walls.
Keep failing.
Id question the value of your so called HS diploma.

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 07, 2019, 05:58:32 PM

Quote from: Gumwars on September 07, 2019, 02:39:28 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 07, 2019, 09:06:09 AM

A Sunrise and Sunset would look the same on FE and RE Earth. Neither one would prove Earth's shape. For FE, you just have to understand the science involved with perspective.  Will post a graph later.

Except, and this is becoming a trend, you're wrong:



There is no "science involved with perspective" when it comes to these fundamental problems with FE.  To give you an idea of how batshit crazy this notion is, a fairly talented programmer and blogger created an interactive model of the snow-globe variety flat Earth and demonstrates how absolutely bonkers light must behave in order for this lunacy to be true.  Take a look for yourself:

http://walter.bislins.ch/bloge/index.asp?page=flat+earth+dome+model


 

Your model only has one point of science, an object gets smaller as distance increases. List what else should be included.

And then please explain why we can also see the Sun get smaller and fade away above the horizon.

We can see your Sunset and we see our sunset. Conditions have to be right for both occurrences.  But it does not prove Earth is flat or a sphere.
We don’t ignore your evidence of a Sun exiting from bottom up, but you ignore our evidence of a Sun getting smaller and fading away, why? 

The heavy clouds on the horizon, are the cause of the illusion. 1
The replay does not help your case

Quote

The heavy clouds on the horizon, are the cause of the illusion.2
the zooming in and out gives a false view of what is happening, and you don't let it set.

Quote

The heavy clouds on the horizon, are the cause of the illusion.3
You see what you want to see here, but not a clear sky once again.

Quote

The heavy clouds on the horizon, are the cause of the illusion.4
i don't need to say anymore

Quote

The heavy clouds on the horizon, are the cause of the illusion.5
Once again the hazel on the horizon,

Quote

The heavy clouds on the horizon, are the cause of the illusion.6
Once again the hazel on the horizon,

Quote

Will you now admit that sometimes the Sun appears to get smaller and fades away?

yes it is an  illusion.

Woweee, plata.

Remeber back in pg10 or so i said to try the mirage theory on different days, not just the shttty cloudy ones?

Then latter on on pg50 or so you told US we had to provide YOU with "horizon eye level" tests over a period with varying weather conditions because, as you arrogantly said, "its science".

Now we re back full circle once again with a barrage of shtty photos/ vids om shitty weaher days.
How does that sun look on a clear day?

Come on man.

Quote from: MouseWalker on September 07, 2019, 08:33:33 PM

yes it is an  illusion.

Woweee, plata.

Remeber back in pg10 or so i said to try the mirage theory on different days, not just the shttty cloudy ones?

Then latter on on pg50 or so you told US we had to provide YOU with "horizon eye level" tests over a period with varying weather conditions because, as you arrogantly said, "its science".

Now we re back full circle once again with a barrage of shtty photos/ vids om shitty weaher days.
How does that sun look on a clear day?

Come on man.

Don't expect a sensible answer from the Flat Terrorist. He's just a troll trying to stir the pot with more Bubble, bubble, toil and Trouble.

All this does make me wonder whether or not Plat ever thought if he or she were the first or the smartest to have a go at RE. And if there have been people before try it, why did they not succeed, what went wrong?

Why does the radius of Earth keep changing as viewed for the alleged ISS?

Can anyone here post a picture of what Earth’s horizon actually looks like as viewed for the alleged ISS?

https://imgur.com/gallery/XBIOEvZ

Do you understand focal length, Plat?

All this does make me wonder whether or not Plat ever thought if he or she were the first or the smartest to have a go at RE. And if there have been people before try it, why did they not succeed, what went wrong?

Nah, Plat is a troll, simple as that.  I don't believe Plat is a real flat-earther.  He's just amused by the drama he causes by posting flagrant lies and ignoring rebuttals.

https://imgur.com/gallery/XBIOEvZ

Do you understand focal length, Plat?

Yes, I do.  So which one is more realistic?

Quote from: rvlvr on September 09, 2019, 12:12:23 PM

https://imgur.com/gallery/XBIOEvZ

Do you understand focal length, Plat?

Yes, I do.  So which one is more realistic?

Since they are all real, wouldn't they all be realistic?

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 09, 2019, 12:32:10 PM

Quote from: rvlvr on September 09, 2019, 12:12:23 PM

https://imgur.com/gallery/XBIOEvZ

Do you understand focal length, Plat?

Yes, I do.  So which one is more realistic?

Since they are all real, wouldn't they all be realistic?

No. As viewed in normal optics and distance.

What do you mean "realistic"? The focal length of the eye is said to be around 22mm, but not sure if it can be measured quite like that.

But if it is that 22mm, then I guess a full frame (35mm) body with a similar lens would draw what the eye sees. At least aboutish.

So you can go thru the pics to look for such a photo.

EDIT: I was off:

"Our central angle of view — around 40-60° — is what most impacts our perception. Subjectively, this would correspond with the angle over which you could recall objects without moving your eyes. Incidentally, this is close to a 50 mm "normal" focal length lens on a full frame camera (43 mm to be precise), or a 27 mm focal length on a camera with a 1.6X crop factor."

https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/cameras-vs-human-eye.htm

Quote from: EvolvedMantisShrimp on September 09, 2019, 12:38:46 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 09, 2019, 12:32:10 PM

Quote from: rvlvr on September 09, 2019, 12:12:23 PM

https://imgur.com/gallery/XBIOEvZ

Do you understand focal length, Plat?

Yes, I do.  So which one is more realistic?

Since they are all real, wouldn't they all be realistic?

No. As viewed in normal optics and distance.

What are the parameters of 'normal' for optics and distance?

And I see that yet again you have fled from a failed argument and a failed FE model which cannot explain a very common phenomenon which the RE explains with ease.

You aren't doing a very good job of showing problems with a RE as you are yet to show a single problem; nor are you doing a good job at defending a FE as you have left so many problems unresolved.

With FE defenders like you, is it really surprising we aren't all admitting defeat and switching sides?

Why does the radius of Earth keep changing as viewed for the alleged ISS?

We have been over this before. You go your ass handed to you and then ran away remember?

It looks different due to different lighting and different cameras.

No. As viewed in normal optics and distance.

Define "normal", for both optics and distance. Especially as "Normal distance" for Earth would only be a few m above it, not 400 km.

We have been over this before. You go your ass handed to you and then ran away remember?

I dont remember it quite like that. Are you trying to gaslight him?

Go back and read the thread from the start. It is you and your baller friends that repeatedly get your arse handed to you.

I dont remember it quite like that.

Which isn't surprising considering how delusional you are.

No where in this thread has he been able to expose any problem with the RE. So there is absolutely no reason for us "ballers" to admit defeat.
Meanwhile, he has repeatedly dodged the numerous issues with FE, so there is plenty of reason for FEers to admit defeat.

Quote from: Shifter on September 09, 2019, 02:50:29 PM

I dont remember it quite like that.

Which isn't surprising considering how delusional you are.

No where in this thread has he been able to expose any problem with the RE. So there is absolutely no reason for us "ballers" to admit defeat.
Meanwhile, he has repeatedly dodged the numerous issues with FE, so there is plenty of reason for FEers to admit defeat.

In the context of defending and being able to make a compelling case against his arguments, you have clearly failed. nearly 1800 posts later and you are still here regurgitating the same crap that clearly has not resonated or gotten through. If the Round Earth case you present is so compelling, why are we still here?

I'm just wanting to know how much curvature (arc) should be visible when viewed from the ISS with a human eye. And where is the picture? What wrong with that?  NASA has no consistency with their pictures.