It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship

Bijane: you are comedy gold.

No answer then? Ok.

Now go to bed.

Apparently even time zones are outside yoru understanding.

We have proved space exists and none of us have been there.

Your name says it all.

Bijane: I couldn't answer your post because it was gibberish; reading it was like looking at a semantic car-crash.

You really are unable to tell the difference between Words & Reality, aren't you?

& why the hell should I care enough about you to find out what time-zone you inhabit?

Or believe you about anything for that matter?

But then, extreme self-absorption is a symptom of aspergers isn't it?

Now get back in your hugbox (I googled it - & LOL!!) until your next hilarious self-trolling session.

I gotta go to work now, but while I'm here I may as well ask if any of you mob of dunces have been to space yet?

Cos if you ain't then you've no direct, unambiguous empirical evidence for what it's like.

Just hearsay, assumption, supposition & opinion... None of which are worth a damn.

Bijane: I couldn't answer your post because it was gibberish; reading it was like looking at a semantic car-crash.

You really are unable to tell the difference between Words & Reality, aren't you?

& why the hell should I care enough about you to find out what time-zone you inhabit?

Or believe you about anything for that matter?

But then, extreme self-absorption is a symptom of aspergers isn't it?

Now get back in your hugbox (I googled it - & LOL!!) until your next hilarious self-trolling session.

I gotta go to work now, but while I'm here I may as well ask if any of you mob of dunces have been to space yet?

Cos if you ain't then you've no direct, unambiguous empirical evidence for what it's like.

Just hearsay, assumption, supposition & opinion... None of which are worth a damn.

Have fun scrubbing toilets!

Quote from: FakeWorlder on May 04, 2015, 01:25:09 PM

We have proved space exists and none of us have been there.

Your name says it all.

I'm not sure if you're arguing against me, my point was that we have conclusive proof that space exists which did not involve is going there

Papa legba, you still haven't answered my evidence. I will take it that you are admitting space exists.
Also, 1 shred of evidence that space doesn't exist? Such as provably false pictures or a law of physics space would break?

I may as well ask if any of you mob of dunces have been to space yet?

Cos if you ain't then you've no direct, unambiguous empirical evidence for what it's like.

Just hearsay, assumption, supposition & opinion... None of which are worth a damn.

So if that's the only question that's required to determine whether or not we can tell anything about a place, my question about Australia is still looking pretty relevant.
Any reason why it's not? Still waiting...

I apologise in advance for posting this comment again, but it needs repeating.

It has become apparent now that PAPA LEGBA is nothing more than a very persistent TROLL with far too much time on his hands.  If we all simply ignore his childish posts and abject irrationality, then hopefully he will just go away to avoid further making a fool of himself.

And why haven't the moderators banned this kiddy, who has nothing relevant to contribute to the thread, and whose sole purpose is to insult everybody else and disrupt the forum?  Am I correct in saying that the moderators do not care?

I apologise in advance for posting this comment again, but it needs repeating.

It has become apparent now that PAPA LEGBA ausGeoff is nothing more than a very persistent TROLL with far too much time on his hands.  If we all simply ignore his childish posts and abject irrationality, then hopefully he will just go away to avoid further making a fool of himself.

And why haven't the moderators banned this kiddy, who has nothing relevant to contribute to the thread, and whose sole purpose is to insult everybody else and disrupt the forum?  Am I correct in saying that the moderators do not care?

Fixed.

I apologise in advance for posting this comment again, but it needs repeating.

It has become apparent now that PAPA LEGBA is nothing more than a very persistent TROLL with far too much time on his hands.  If we all simply ignore his childish posts and abject irrationality, then hopefully he will just go away to avoid further making a fool of himself.

And why haven't the moderators banned this kiddy, who has nothing relevant to contribute to the thread, and whose sole purpose is to insult everybody else and disrupt the forum?  Am I correct in saying that the moderators do not care?

Geoffrey, stop making it your life's goal to have everyone banned from a forum that you totally disagree with.
Papa asked a very pertinent question.
None of you have been to space apart from Rama and he doesn't want to talk about it.
Now because none of you , except for Rama, have been to space, it means that your reliance on pictures and text books, plus word of mouth, as all you have in terms of expertise.

Bringing up Australia is neither here nor there because if you haven't been to Australia then you have no expertise over that.

All you people are doing is living in a fantasy world that was created for you using words and pictures/video. No different to what Hollywood creates for the ever willing fantasy viewer.

I await Rama set to tell us all about his space exploits if he's up to it.

Bringing up Australia is neither here nor there because if you haven't been to Australia then you have no expertise over that.

The problem with that statement is that you still accept various things about Australia, that you refuse to accept about space. For example: it's possible to go there.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 05, 2015, 02:48:37 AM

Bringing up Australia is neither here nor there because if you haven't been to Australia then you have no expertise over that.

The problem with that statement is that you still accept various things about Australia, that you refuse to accept about space. For example: it's possible to go there.

But if I'd never been there I couldn't profess to be an expert on it or know anything about it physically. I'd be relying on seconds hand info.

The other thing is, you can go to a place called Australia right now and alnd on an area that states it. You won't know it's on a globe but at least you will see a portion of what is Australia.
Now get in a rocket and go to space. What's your chances?
If you are not naive, you will accept your chances are zero. You may believe space exists but you have no way of knowing for sure. You have never seen anything at all that proves beyond reasonable doubt that space exists.

But if I'd never been there I couldn't profess to be an expert on it or know anything about it physically. I'd be relying on seconds hand info.

Just as you are for most things. You're relying on second hand info that if you tie yourself to a weight and jump in a river, you'll die: you've never done that, you've never spoken to anyone after they've done that. For all you know it might give you superpowers: you're relying on second and maybe even third hand info of people who've studied that.

The other thing is, you can go to a place called Australia right now and alnd on an area that states it. You won't know it's on a globe but at least you will see a portion of what is Australia.
Now get in a rocket and go to space. What's your chances?

I could apparently do that (though maybe I'm just drugged with hallucinogens, or dropped off in a desert, or killed. We have only the second-hand info of people who claim to have gone to Australia to say that won't happen). I could also change degrees and study to become an astronaut: maybe emigrate. People aren't born to serve NASA, they seek employment there just like they do anywhere else.

You have never seen anything at all that proves beyond reasonable doubt that space exists.

What is your definition of 'reasonable doubt'?

I gotta go to work now, but while I'm here I may as well ask if any of you mob of dunces have been to space yet?

Cos if you ain't then you've no direct, unambiguous empirical evidence for what it's like.

Just hearsay, assumption, supposition & opinion... None of which are worth a damn.

Why do you think that personal experience is the best way of gathering evidence?  What's wrong with taking the word of people or probes who have been to space?  I've never been to Antarctica, but people who have say that it's th*rking cold there and I take their word for it. 

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 05, 2015, 04:47:41 AM

But if I'd never been there I couldn't profess to be an expert on it or know anything about it physically. I'd be relying on seconds hand info.

Just as you are for most things. You're relying on second hand info that if you tie yourself to a weight and jump in a river, you'll die: you've never done that, you've never spoken to anyone after they've done that. For all you know it might give you superpowers: you're relying on second and maybe even third hand info of people who've studied that.

Quote

The other thing is, you can go to a place called Australia right now and alnd on an area that states it. You won't know it's on a globe but at least you will see a portion of what is Australia.
Now get in a rocket and go to space. What's your chances?

I could apparently do that (though maybe I'm just drugged with hallucinogens, or dropped off in a desert, or killed. We have only the second-hand info of people who claim to have gone to Australia to say that won't happen). I could also change degrees and study to become an astronaut: maybe emigrate. People aren't born to serve NASA, they seek employment there just like they do anywhere else.

Quote

You have never seen anything at all that proves beyond reasonable doubt that space exists.

What is your definition of 'reasonable doubt'?

Reasonable doubt would be seeing something reasonable to do with space. Things like watching an astronaut get into a rocket and take off. Being in a waiting helicopter for the touchdown of a soyuz capsule, then opening it up to see astronauts in it. You know...stuff like that.

Quote from: Papa Legba on May 04, 2015, 09:55:18 PM

I gotta go to work now, but while I'm here I may as well ask if any of you mob of dunces have been to space yet?

Cos if you ain't then you've no direct, unambiguous empirical evidence for what it's like.

Just hearsay, assumption, supposition & opinion... None of which are worth a damn.

Why do you think that personal experience is the best way of gathering evidence?  What's wrong with taking the word of people or probes who have been to space?  I've never been to Antarctica, but people who have say that it's th*rking cold there and I take their word for it.

It's cold on many places on Earth but it doesn't mean it's Antarctica.

Seriously people, if I was a loyal space fan and Nasa supporter through the years I would seriously be pissed off at the lack of progress in 50 years of operation.

They so EASILY did these amazing things 50 years ago, but the common person you and me, can't even hop in our space ship and travel to the moon. Where the heck is a Moon base dammit?

Why the heck aren't there private space industries shipping things in space and building space stations and restaurants like the freakin Jetsons? This is ridiculous.....

Sure they can travel 220,000 miles to the moon in the 60s in 72 hours using a calculator... sure they can... but you can't travel 100,000 feet in 2015.

Where the hell is my lunar lander? Why can't I just take off and float around so easily in space?

Give me a break...

Look guys they're living in SPACE! 

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Seriously people, if I was a loyal space fan and Nasa supporter through the years I would seriously be pissed off at the lack of progress in 50 years of operation.

They so EASILY did these amazing things 50 years ago, but the common person you and me, can't even hop in our space ship and travel to the moon. Where the heck is a Moon base dammit?

Why the heck aren't there private space industries shipping things in space and building space stations and restaurants like the freakin Jetsons? This is ridiculous.....

Sure they can travel 220,000 miles to the moon in the 60s in 72 hours using a calculator... sure they can... but you can't travel 100,000 feet in 2015.

Where the hell is my lunar lander? Why can't I just take off and float around so easily in space?

Give me a break...

Look guys they're living in SPACE! 

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

No progress?  What do you call the asteroid redirect mission and the manned Mars mission that are planned to happen in the next 29 years?

There actually are space tourism industries and there are even some that do things like build and sell small space stations.  Space tourism is a new industry and it's growing fast.

You talk about the Apollo missions as if they were easy, but it took a world power in a Cold War many years to make it happen.  Just look at a Saturn V, the things are bigger then most sky scrapers.  Do you honestly think that civilians can afford to buy something like that?

Reasonable doubt would be seeing something reasonable to do with space. Things like watching an astronaut get into a rocket and take off. Being in a waiting helicopter for the touchdown of a soyuz capsule, then opening it up to see astronauts in it. You know...stuff like that.

I've never watched anyone get into a plane bound for Australia, or watched a plane from Australia land and see people come out. Should I then conclude that it would be reasonable for me to doubt that people can go to Australia?

Also, an individual example is not a definition. What criteria does 'reasonable doubt' meet?

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 05, 2015, 07:19:03 AM

Reasonable doubt would be seeing something reasonable to do with space. Things like watching an astronaut get into a rocket and take off. Being in a waiting helicopter for the touchdown of a soyuz capsule, then opening it up to see astronauts in it. You know...stuff like that.

I've never watched anyone get into a plane bound for Australia, or watched a plane from Australia land and see people come out. Should I then conclude that it would be reasonable for me to doubt that people can go to Australia?

Also, an individual example is not a definition. What criteria does 'reasonable doubt' meet?

You know what common sense is. You know what reasonable doubt is or even reasonable acceptance. It's all there for you to ponder but for some strange reason you decide to accept stuff that over the years, makes less and less logical sense, as in space travel.

It's gone backwards. Now let me put this to you in a me to you basis as if we were sat face to face in a chair, alone over a drink, logically putting the world to rights.

You think it's sensible and logical to shut down a shuttle after all this time that takes 7 people into space (allegedly) and has suffered very little in terms of disaster compared to success that can comfotably carry 7 astronot's as well as dock and supply a space station than glide back to Earth...in favour of  going back to the old Apollo type landing of a cone...not into the sea this time but to smash into the land somewhere barren using a parachute and a supposed detonator underneath a discarded heat shield that arrests the parachute fall for only 3 cramped to death astronot's.


You think this is going forwards? you think this is sensible and makes sense? you have no mind to question it all and say, " hang on a minute here...something's wrong."
You just blindly accept it all being above board.

You don't really need to answer this, I know what's coming and I can't be arsed to argue it. All I'll say is, if that's your attitude, then carry on but it's all there in your face as to how frigging stupid those people at the top think the gullible public are.

They are just taking the piss out of you and you smile and ask for more nonsense.

You know what common sense is. You know what reasonable doubt is or even reasonable acceptance. It's all there for you to ponder but for some strange reason you decide to accept stuff that over the years, makes less and less logical sense, as in space travel.

I know what it is, I'm wondering if you do, as your definition seems to clearly be different to mine. Personally I think it is reasonable to trust what people say if a) what they say is corroborated, b) if they have no proven reason to lie, and c) if they are experts unlikely to be mistaken. As you don't seem to agree, this is why I asked.

You think this is going forwards? you think this is sensible and makes sense? you have no mind to question it all and say, " hang on a minute here...something's wrong."
You just blindly accept it all being above board.

Well, I think things meant for different purposes will need to be very different.

You don't really need to answer this, I know what's coming and I can't be arsed to argue it. All I'll say is, if that's your attitude, then carry on but it's all there in your face as to how frigging stupid those people at the top think the gullible public are.

Or maybe you're the one who's being stupid here. If there s a conspiracy, I'm pretty sure the people at the top would actually put some thought into it rather than have it so simple that unqualified randoms can see through it.

It's 2015 and you haven't even been to Australia

To: tappet, sceptimatic & Iwitness.
Thank you for showing that there are sensible people on this forum.

To: everyone else.
I was going to write a long post answering your various responses.

But then I thought: 'Nah; why waste your time on a bunch of autistic robot meat-puppets?'

Like I've said, any sane adult who thinks that repeatedly shouting 'AUSTRALIA!' will prove space travel is real is too far gone to help.

So I'll just say instead: 'STFU & get back in your hugboxes!'

Cos you ain't been to space so you got no DIRECT, UNAMBIGUOUS EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE for anything you claim about the silly damn place.

You THINK you do; but you DON'T.

& no amount of lies, diversion & bed-wetting denial will change that.

Once again I ask; in the half-day since I last posted, have any of you been to space?

Time is passing inexorably & your lives are dribbling away whilst you make lame, indignant posts on a forum you claim to despise; yet you just can't seem to make that final leap to SPACE can you?

Ever get the feeling you've been had?

Seriously people, if I was a loyal space fan and Nasa supporter through the years I would seriously be pissed off at the lack of progress in 50 years of operation.

This is exactly why newcomers like SpaceX are trying to change the game by making a recoverable first stage booster.

They so EASILY did these amazing things 50 years ago, but the common person you and me, can't even hop in our space ship and travel to the moon. Where the heck is a Moon base dammit?

Who said that space travel is easy?  Seriously, who in the aerospace industry ever claimed that getting to space, let alone the moon, is easy?

Why the heck aren't there private space industries shipping things in space and building space stations and restaurants like the freakin Jetsons? This is ridiculous.....

Well, at least one company is working towards that end:
http://bigelowaerospace.com/

Sure they can travel 220,000 miles to the moon in the 60s in 72 hours using a calculator... sure they can... but you can't travel 100,000 feet in 2015.

That depends on which "they" you're referring to.

Where the hell is my lunar lander? Why can't I just take off and float around so easily in space?

Where is your private jet?  How's the view from your personal submarine?  I bet you don't even own a tank.

Give me a break...

Look guys they're living in SPACE! 

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

I'm sorry, but were you trying to make a point?

Markjo: I bet your hugbox looks like a Victorian sewage pipe... But hey, we all got our foibles, ain't we?

You been to space yet then?

75 years after the primitive V2 supposedly first reached the edge of it?

Nah, course not; keep dreaming, sucker.

Like I've said, any sane adult who thinks that repeatedly shouting 'AUSTRALIA!' will prove space travel is real is too far gone to help.

That might be true if that's what the Australia argument was about.  It isn't and you're refuse to see it.

Cos you ain't been to space so you got no DIRECT, UNAMBIGUOUS EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE for anything you claim about the silly damn place.

Why does someone need to personally go to space in order to gain unambiguous empirical evidence?  Why are unmanned probes not good enough?  Why isn't a professional astronaut's word good enough?

Ever get the feeling you've been had?

Ever get the feeling that you might be the one who's wrong?

Markjo: I bet your hugbox looks like a Victorian sewer.. But hey, we all got our foibles, ain't we?

You been to space yet then?

&5 years after the primitive V2 supposedly first reached the edge of it?

Nah, course not; keep dreaming, sucker.

I never claimed to have gone to space.  I don't need to in order to know what's out there.  That's why we have a space program.

Now. would you care to answer some of my questions?

Like I've said, any sane adult who thinks that repeatedly shouting 'AUSTRALIA!' will prove space travel is real is too far gone to help.

Hasn't happened once.
Still waiting for why your argument doesn't apply to Australia as much as it does to space.

markjo:

1: Wrong.

2: Wronger.

3: REALLY Wrong.

Is it your job to be my own personal coprophagic 'shadow idiot', Markjo?

Trying to drown out my posts in a sea of 'fesces' & get the last word in, no matter how droolingly inane?

Is that how you think you'll win this 'debate'?

Rather than by, say, ACTUALLY GOING TO SPACE YOURSELF?

Pathetic... just STFU & get back in your faeces-encrusted hugbox ok?

Oh, & have you been to space yet?

Bijane: stop spamming your failed analogy; the autism is strong in you.

So STFU & get back in your theoretical Australian hugbox, ok?

& have you been to space yet either? Tick, tick, tick... Time flies but no space for you!

Seriously people, if I was a loyal space fan and Nasa supporter through the years I would seriously be pissed off at the lack of progress in 50 years of operation.

I am pissed off.

Progress requires talent, hard work, money, and, not least of all, daring; talented hard workers we got plenty of, but, unfortunately, not the money and daring to carry out really expensive (because it's really difficult) and dangerous (because there are lots of things that can go fatally wrong) manned interplanetary travel[nb]Consider travel to the Moon "interplanetary" in this context.[/nb]. Unless there's short-term profit to be made, money requires popular support, and the popular support for expensive and daring interplanetary manned space missions is lacking because there's not an immediate economic (or military) payoff and we've become, IMO, way too risk-averse.

They so EASILY^{[citation needed]} did these amazing things 50 years ago, but the common person you and me, can't even hop in our space ship and travel to the moon. Where the heck is a Moon base dammit?

If you have or can raise the money needed for the hardware and manpower, go for it! Have you even investigated how much it would cost? If you're waiting for someone else to pay for it, then quit complaining. Have you checked to see if someone would stop you? If not, then quit complaining.

Why the heck aren't there private space industries shipping things in space and building space stations and restaurants like the freakin Jetsons? This is ridiculous.....

When there's a profit potential worth the risk there will be private industries operating in space. Until then, not so much. If you see an opportunity and can put together a convincing[nb]Learning to write coherently would be a start, or hire someone who can.[/nb] business plan, go for it!

You may not know it, but the Jetsons were a cartoon that was set in the 2060s (100 years after the series was made), not a freakin' documentary. It was intended for entertainment.

Comments like this are ridiculous.

Sure they can travel 220,000 miles to the moon in the 60s in 72 hours using a calculator... sure they can... but you can't travel 100,000 feet in 2015.

I just got back from a trip where I traveled 1,800 miles (9,504,000 feet). That's 95 times farther than you claim is not possible.

I know, I know... that's not what you meant[nb]You will want to avoid mistakes like this if you write a business plan, though. Sloppy writing as well as sloppy thinking scares off investors.[/nb]. But what's with the 100,000-ft height limit you seem to imagine exists now?

What's with the continual remarks about taking a calculator along to the Moon? You may be too young to realize it, but lightweight electronic calculators became available only after planning and equipment design for the Apollo moon missions was settled, and weight and space were at a premium aboard those craft. There may have been a slide rule or two, though. Is this what you were referring to? Back in the days of Apollo people used them to make the sort of calculations we do on calculators and inexpensive computers now.

Where the hell is my lunar lander? Why can't I just take off and float around so easily in space?

Because it's not easy. Whining and carrying on doesn't change that; talent, money, and hard work can. So stop whining and carrying on and start doing something useful.

Give me a break...

Your own actions are the only ones you can control. Why don't you give us one? Thanks!

Look guys they're living in SPACE! 

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Nice hair. I watched that until the inane editorial interruptions got too annoying (3 or 4 of them by the third minute was enough). Spaceflight is pretty cool, but we could be doing so much more if we had pursued it more diligently.
 

Alpha2omega: You are a pompous ass. You ain't been to space & have no right whatsoever to speak so authoritatively on a subject you only know from books & google.

Bad alpha2omega! Hugbox - now!

Of course, I'm only writing this to amuse myself & to see exactly how long it takes for another spam-post to appear in order to drown my own out...

But while I'm here I'll ask again: have any of you space-cranks actually been to space yet?

Do any of you have 1st-hand experience of the subject which alpha2omega oh-so-neatly just demonstrated you DO all claim to be such great experts on?

Well, space AND Australia...

God, you're gullible aren't you?