It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship

  • 4284 Replies
  • 529300 Views
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1110 on: June 17, 2015, 03:47:59 PM »
So: here's a simple experiment you can do at home to provide evidence for my model of rocket thrust (i.e. they push on an outside mass).

When you breath out, you exhale air; i.e. you exhaust a gas.

Hold a piece of paper 6 inches or so from your mouth. Paper has mass.

Exhale (i.e. exhaust a gas) upon the paper.

Watch it move away from the direction of the thrust of the exhausted gasses you exhaled upon it.

Understand that an action-reaction pairing, in accordance with Newton's 3rd Law, was created by the exhausted gasses you directed upon the mass of the paper.

End of experiment.

Now: can any of you NASA-huggers show me a similarly simple experiment to demonstrate your model of rocket propulsion?

Well, if you've even decided what your model actually is yet...

P.s. mainframes; before I waste any more time on you, please explain again how thrust vectoring does not actually involve the vectoring of thrust?

You have just demonstrated how conservation of momentum works. If you blow air onto a piece of paper the impact of the air molecules imparts momentum onto the paper and therefore it moves.

The same principle works inside the combustion chamber and nozzle of a rocket. Fuel and oxidiser are added to the chamber and are ignited. The ignition imparts a huge amount of energy and therefore velocity to the resultant exhaust gases. The resultant pressure pushes out in all directions. Pressure against the combustion chamber pushes the rocket forward, pressure against the exit nozzle allows exhaust gases to be ejected from the nozzle.

In the case of the v2 rocket, the gases that have been ejected then impact the control surfaces causing force to be imparted onto the control surface and resulting in a change in direction of the rocket. It is called thrust vectoring because it uses the thrust from the exhaust to impart force onto the control surfaces as opposed to using the media, through which the object is travelling. Thrust vectoring also includes systems whereby the actual nozzle itself is mounted on a gimbal.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42535
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1111 on: June 17, 2015, 04:11:35 PM »
As for the action/reaction pairing occurring within the combustion chamber & nozzle: PROVE IT.
Are you saying that the gasses produced by the burning of a fuel/oxidizer mix aren't under pressure and pressing against the walls of the combustion chamber (action) and the walls of the combustion chamber aren't pressing back to resist that pressure (reaction)?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Rayzor

  • 12111
  • Looking for Occam
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1112 on: June 17, 2015, 05:05:04 PM »
Do you know why they build pressure chambers with domed heads and bases? Now when I say pressure chambers, I mean chambers that can hold internal pressure or resist external pressure.
Yes.
Then you'll understand why Adam Savage's silly rigged up supposed vacuum chamber is anything but what we are led to believe.

How hard did he pull the vac down?   Or weren't you paying attention.
Which is why you can't comprehend stuff. If he didn't make a vacuum, or close to one, then his experiment is bullshit. Can't you get this into your head or are you just happy to play ignorant?
Seriously,  is that the best you've got?     Just call it bullshit,  and not offer any reason why, then follow it up with a clear demonstration that you've never built or used any vacuum equipment.   I was hoping for something a bit better than that,  you'll be wallowing in the gutter with Papa Legba and Legion before too long.

We seem to be doing quite well chumpy. Intellect beats indoctrination every time chumpy!

Edit: chumpy, please be consistent with your whitespace following punctuation. Do you really need four characters after a question mark? It makes you appear even more stupid.

Sorry,  I didn't realize primitive brains can't process white space.   You live and learn.

So,  your intellectual refutation of the mythbusters  proof that rockets do in fact work just fine in a vacuum,   is to call me chumpy.    I must admit that's a level higher than I thought you were capable of.   And puts you behind sceptimatic's  refutation,  which was to call it "bullshit"  and then go on to demonstrate he had no actual knowledge of what a vacuum was.   

The only one lagging so far behind that he isn't even in the field is Papa Legba,  who is blue in the face from blowing on pieces of paper,   he doesn't know what vacuum is either. 

Here it is again,   http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/its-rocket-science/
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

*

mikeman7918

  • 5431
  • Round Earther
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1113 on: June 17, 2015, 06:53:25 PM »
Fun fact: rockets are actually more efficient and powerful in lower pressures then in higher pressures because the air doesn't slow down the gas exiting the engine.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42535
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1114 on: June 17, 2015, 07:58:03 PM »
Fun fact: rockets are actually more efficient and powerful in lower pressures then in higher pressures because the air doesn't slow down the gas exiting the engine.
That and there is a higher pressure differential between the combustion chamber and the outside environment. 

Another fun fact: SpaceX has 2 different versions of their Merlin engine.  One for atmospheric operation and another for vacuum operation.  This is because exhaust nozzles are designed for optimal performance at certain altitudes. 
http://www.slideshare.net/sabirahmed796/nozzles-45206272
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1115 on: June 18, 2015, 12:48:07 AM »
Fun fact: rockets are actually more efficient and powerful in lower pressures then in higher pressures because the air doesn't slow down the gas exiting the engine.
Fun fact: rockets are about as useful as a chocolate fire guard in very low pressures at high altitude; never mind a so called space vacuum.

Fun facts: humans find it hard to swim in empty swimming pools.


*

mikeman7918

  • 5431
  • Round Earther
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1116 on: June 18, 2015, 01:19:12 AM »
Fun fact: rockets are about as useful as a chocolate fire guard in very low pressures at high altitude; never mind a so called space vacuum.

When a rocket fires it's engine it creates really high pressure behind it while there is no pressure in front of it.  When similar circumstances are created inside the barrel of a gun the bullet is rapidly pushed forward.  How would this not make the rocket be pushed forwards?

Fun facts: humans find it hard to swim in empty swimming pools.

Makes sense, because humans don't eject exaust to swim.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1117 on: June 18, 2015, 01:57:21 AM »
Fun fact: rockets are about as useful as a chocolate fire guard in very low pressures at high altitude; never mind a so called space vacuum.

When a rocket fires it's engine it creates really high pressure behind it while there is no pressure in front of it.  When similar circumstances are created inside the barrel of a gun the bullet is rapidly pushed forward.  How would this not make the rocket be pushed forwards?


I'd explain it all but you're not up to being explained to. You're far too busy being a 17 year old persona on a forum when it's as clear as day you aren't that age.
I don't know what your full game is and I don't really care. All I'll say is, it's a waste of time dealing with shit like you, just as it is dealing with shit people just like you.

*

Rayzor

  • 12111
  • Looking for Occam
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1118 on: June 18, 2015, 02:10:02 AM »
I'd explain it all but you're not up to being explained to. You're far too busy being a 17 year old persona on a forum when it's as clear as day you aren't that age.
I don't know what your full game is and I don't really care. All I'll say is, it's a waste of time dealing with shit like you, just as it is dealing with shit people just like you.

Translation.   sceptimatic doesn't have any idea about physics and even less about interpersonal relationships,  lives alone, thinks people are shit, and is bitter about life, because of his own personal failings.

More fun facts:  Just to help you join the human race,  the earth is round,  rockets do work in a vacuum,  the Apollo program was real and one of mankind's greatest achievements.

Plus you never adequately answered any questions about vacuum.


Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1119 on: June 18, 2015, 02:19:27 AM »
I'd explain it all but you're not up to being explained to. You're far too busy being a 17 year old persona on a forum when it's as clear as day you aren't that age.
I don't know what your full game is and I don't really care. All I'll say is, it's a waste of time dealing with shit like you, just as it is dealing with shit people just like you.

Translation.   sceptimatic doesn't have any idea about physics and even less about interpersonal relationships,  lives alone, thinks people are shit, and is bitter about life, because of his own personal failings.

More fun facts:  Just to help you join the human race,  the earth is round,  rockets do work in a vacuum,  the Apollo program was real and one of mankind's greatest achievements.

Plus you never adequately answered any questions about vacuum.
I remember ausGeoff used to do this with starman. Whenever I'd have a little dig at starman, you could bet your life that ausGeoff would jump right in to his rescue.
Starman was a sort of timid being like Mike and ausGeoff was a snappy little croc like you. Strange that, isn't it?  ;D

Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1120 on: June 18, 2015, 04:07:48 AM »
Fun fact: rockets are actually more efficient and powerful in lower pressures then in higher pressures because the air doesn't slow down the gas exiting the engine.
Fun fact: rockets are about as useful as a chocolate fire guard in very low pressures at high altitude; never mind a so called space vacuum.

Fun facts: humans find it hard to swim in empty swimming pools.

So much fail.

Rockets do not push against a medium ie air/water, they create an explosive force from fuel and oxidiser that creates a net force in the nozzle of the rocket. The force is imparted on the rocket by the high velocity impact of the molecules accelerated in the explosive ignition process.

Straight question. If an object hits another object in a vacuum does it transfer some/all of its momentum to that object?
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

*

iWitness

  • 1173
  • If the earth is round then what is your problem?
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1121 on: June 18, 2015, 04:15:59 AM »
Fun fact: rockets are actually more efficient and powerful in lower pressures then in higher pressures because the air doesn't slow down the gas exiting the engine.
Fun fact: rockets are about as useful as a chocolate fire guard in very low pressures at high altitude; never mind a so called space vacuum.

Fun facts: humans find it hard to swim in empty swimming pools.

So much fail.

Rockets do not push against a medium ie air/water, they create an explosive force from fuel and oxidiser that creates a net force in the nozzle of the rocket. The force is imparted on the rocket by the high velocity impact of the molecules accelerated in the explosive ignition process.

Straight question. If an object hits another object in a vacuum does it transfer some/all of its momentum to that object?

Straight question. How is it even possible for objects to move in a vacuum?

The only reason we can move at all on earth is due to density, friction and pressure....
Disclaimer: I am confused. Everything I say is speculative and not admissible in a court of law; however, I am neither insane nor a threat to myself or others. I am simply curious about everything in life and enjoy talking about crazy shit. Oh, & btw I like turtles.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1122 on: June 18, 2015, 04:55:42 AM »
Fun fact: rockets are actually more efficient and powerful in lower pressures then in higher pressures because the air doesn't slow down the gas exiting the engine.
Fun fact: rockets are about as useful as a chocolate fire guard in very low pressures at high altitude; never mind a so called space vacuum.

Fun facts: humans find it hard to swim in empty swimming pools.

So much fail.

Rockets do not push against a medium ie air/water, they create an explosive force from fuel and oxidiser that creates a net force in the nozzle of the rocket. The force is imparted on the rocket by the high velocity impact of the molecules accelerated in the explosive ignition process.

Straight question. If an object hits another object in a vacuum does it transfer some/all of its momentum to that object?
iWitness has just basically answered your question.
Have a think about it. Just have a think about how anything can move when there is no matter/medium to actually move through.
To sand wood you need to apply friction. This is normally done by using a sanding sheet directly applied to the wood surface.
However, you could still smooth down that same wood if you were to subject it to enough speed against atmosphere.
What you cannot do is subject it to a vacuum and expect it to be smoothed down, even if you could somehow place the wood in a one (which you can't).
Why?
Because there is no matter to interact with the wood at any speed, so no friction. BUT...and this is a big BUT...as I said before: you need energy to create movement/friction to create an opposite equal force of friction and it just cannot ever happen in a true vacuum, nor can it happen in a fictional place called space that is supposed to be a near vacuum of so called SCATTERED particles.
Scattered particles in reality would consist of scattered matter through a MEDIUM and a medium is made up of matter, so space cannot have scattered particles in NO medium, just floating about, because that means there's no attachment or purpose to any movement or wave pattern.

No wave pattern or at least a purpose of travel, means no work done, meaning no energy expended which also means there is no reaction to any action in any measures, never mind equal.

Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1123 on: June 18, 2015, 05:00:24 AM »
Fun fact: rockets are actually more efficient and powerful in lower pressures then in higher pressures because the air doesn't slow down the gas exiting the engine.
Fun fact: rockets are about as useful as a chocolate fire guard in very low pressures at high altitude; never mind a so called space vacuum.

Fun facts: humans find it hard to swim in empty swimming pools.

So much fail.

Rockets do not push against a medium ie air/water, they create an explosive force from fuel and oxidiser that creates a net force in the nozzle of the rocket. The force is imparted on the rocket by the high velocity impact of the molecules accelerated in the explosive ignition process.

Straight question. If an object hits another object in a vacuum does it transfer some/all of its momentum to that object?
iWitness has just basically answered your question.
Have a think about it. Just have a think about how anything can move when there is no matter/medium to actually move through.
To sand wood you need to apply friction. This is normally done by using a sanding sheet directly applied to the wood surface.
However, you could still smooth down that same wood if you were to subject it to enough speed against atmosphere.
What you cannot do is subject it to a vacuum and expect it to be smoothed down, even if you could somehow place the wood in a one (which you can't).
Why?
Because there is no matter to interact with the wood at any speed, so no friction. BUT...and this is a big BUT...as I said before: you need energy to create movement/friction to create an opposite equal force of friction and it just cannot ever happen in a true vacuum, nor can it happen in a fictional place called space that is supposed to be a near vacuum of so called SCATTERED particles.
Scattered particles in reality would consist of scattered matter through a MEDIUM and a medium is made up of matter, so space cannot have scattered particles in NO medium, just floating about, because that means there's no attachment or purpose to any movement or wave pattern.

No wave pattern or at least a purpose of travel, means no work done, meaning no energy expended which also means there is no reaction to any action in any measures, never mind equal.

I'm sorry but my babelfish doesnt translate from bollocks to english.....
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1124 on: June 18, 2015, 05:03:51 AM »
Fun fact: rockets are actually more efficient and powerful in lower pressures then in higher pressures because the air doesn't slow down the gas exiting the engine.
Fun fact: rockets are about as useful as a chocolate fire guard in very low pressures at high altitude; never mind a so called space vacuum.

Fun facts: humans find it hard to swim in empty swimming pools.

So much fail.

Rockets do not push against a medium ie air/water, they create an explosive force from fuel and oxidiser that creates a net force in the nozzle of the rocket. The force is imparted on the rocket by the high velocity impact of the molecules accelerated in the explosive ignition process.

Straight question. If an object hits another object in a vacuum does it transfer some/all of its momentum to that object?
iWitness has just basically answered your question.
Have a think about it. Just have a think about how anything can move when there is no matter/medium to actually move through.
To sand wood you need to apply friction. This is normally done by using a sanding sheet directly applied to the wood surface.
However, you could still smooth down that same wood if you were to subject it to enough speed against atmosphere.
What you cannot do is subject it to a vacuum and expect it to be smoothed down, even if you could somehow place the wood in a one (which you can't).
Why?
Because there is no matter to interact with the wood at any speed, so no friction. BUT...and this is a big BUT...as I said before: you need energy to create movement/friction to create an opposite equal force of friction and it just cannot ever happen in a true vacuum, nor can it happen in a fictional place called space that is supposed to be a near vacuum of so called SCATTERED particles.
Scattered particles in reality would consist of scattered matter through a MEDIUM and a medium is made up of matter, so space cannot have scattered particles in NO medium, just floating about, because that means there's no attachment or purpose to any movement or wave pattern.

No wave pattern or at least a purpose of travel, means no work done, meaning no energy expended which also means there is no reaction to any action in any measures, never mind equal.

I'm sorry but my babelfish doesnt translate from bollocks to english.....
No problem. I didn't expect you to understand anything that goes against your indoctrinated upbringing so just carry on in your naive little world, kid.

Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1125 on: June 18, 2015, 05:07:02 AM »
Fun fact: rockets are actually more efficient and powerful in lower pressures then in higher pressures because the air doesn't slow down the gas exiting the engine.
Fun fact: rockets are about as useful as a chocolate fire guard in very low pressures at high altitude; never mind a so called space vacuum.

Fun facts: humans find it hard to swim in empty swimming pools.

So much fail.

Rockets do not push against a medium ie air/water, they create an explosive force from fuel and oxidiser that creates a net force in the nozzle of the rocket. The force is imparted on the rocket by the high velocity impact of the molecules accelerated in the explosive ignition process.

Straight question. If an object hits another object in a vacuum does it transfer some/all of its momentum to that object?
iWitness has just basically answered your question.
Have a think about it. Just have a think about how anything can move when there is no matter/medium to actually move through.
To sand wood you need to apply friction. This is normally done by using a sanding sheet directly applied to the wood surface.
However, you could still smooth down that same wood if you were to subject it to enough speed against atmosphere.
What you cannot do is subject it to a vacuum and expect it to be smoothed down, even if you could somehow place the wood in a one (which you can't).
Why?
Because there is no matter to interact with the wood at any speed, so no friction. BUT...and this is a big BUT...as I said before: you need energy to create movement/friction to create an opposite equal force of friction and it just cannot ever happen in a true vacuum, nor can it happen in a fictional place called space that is supposed to be a near vacuum of so called SCATTERED particles.
Scattered particles in reality would consist of scattered matter through a MEDIUM and a medium is made up of matter, so space cannot have scattered particles in NO medium, just floating about, because that means there's no attachment or purpose to any movement or wave pattern.

No wave pattern or at least a purpose of travel, means no work done, meaning no energy expended which also means there is no reaction to any action in any measures, never mind equal.

I'm sorry but my babelfish doesnt translate from bollocks to english.....
No problem. I didn't expect you to understand anything that goes against your indoctrinated upbringing so just carry on in your naive little world, kid.

I'm sorry, i know such bizarre concepts such as evidence are alien to you....
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1126 on: June 18, 2015, 05:18:12 AM »
I'm sorry, i know such bizarre concepts such as evidence are alien to you....
Real evidence would be great. Even logical theories are welcome. You and your like-minded cronies provide nothing logical.
Merely reading books that give you all the answers you crave but can never verify, is not a true reflection of what's happening in life if you cannot physically back it up.
The closest you can come to verification or at the very least, potential truth, is by applying a logical mindset to what you are part of.

Merely telling me that you know how all the crimes were solved in Enid Blyton's famous five books, does not mean that the people mentioned in those books, were real and actually did solve those crimes.

A lot of your science books are basically similar to this, so it's no wonder you're so smitten with the fantasy they offer you.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42535
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1127 on: June 18, 2015, 05:28:00 AM »
Straight question. How is it even possible for objects to move in a vacuum?
Why shouldn't things move in a vacuum? ???

The only reason we can move at all on earth is due to density, friction and pressure....
Umm...  You do realize that friction is the resistance to movement, don't you?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1128 on: June 18, 2015, 05:37:06 AM »
Umm...  You do realize that friction is the resistance to movement, don't you?
Yes and you also understand that for it to be a resistance to movement, it also has to be an energy to start movement, which equates to what everything always equates to. Every action (energy/friction) creates an EQUAL and OPPOSITE reaction (resistance/friction).

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42535
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1129 on: June 18, 2015, 06:35:05 AM »
Umm...  You do realize that friction is the resistance to movement, don't you?
Yes and you also understand that for it to be a resistance to movement, it also has to be an energy to start movement, which equates to what everything always equates to. Every action (energy/friction) creates an EQUAL and OPPOSITE reaction (resistance/friction).
Do you mean like when hot gasses push against the combustion chamber wall in a rocket engine?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1130 on: June 18, 2015, 06:52:55 AM »
Umm...  You do realize that friction is the resistance to movement, don't you?
Yes and you also understand that for it to be a resistance to movement, it also has to be an energy to start movement, which equates to what everything always equates to. Every action (energy/friction) creates an EQUAL and OPPOSITE reaction (resistance/friction).
Do you mean like when hot gasses push against the combustion chamber wall in a rocket engine?
That and every other happening in a medium.
Try not to use my answer as a means of proving rocket propulsion without an external atmospheric resistance, please, otherwise I'll have to come back and explain what's going on and it could extend to many pages of back and forth tit for tat.

Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1131 on: June 18, 2015, 07:11:50 AM »
Umm...  You do realize that friction is the resistance to movement, don't you?
Yes and you also understand that for it to be a resistance to movement, it also has to be an energy to start movement, which equates to what everything always equates to. Every action (energy/friction) creates an EQUAL and OPPOSITE reaction (resistance/friction).
Do you mean like when hot gasses push against the combustion chamber wall in a rocket engine?
That and every other happening in a medium.
Try not to use my answer as a means of proving rocket propulsion without an external atmospheric resistance, please, otherwise I'll have to come back and explain what's going on and it could extend to many pages of back and forth tit for tat.

Please do, and we can then point out how badly wrong you are.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1132 on: June 18, 2015, 08:12:25 AM »
Umm...  You do realize that friction is the resistance to movement, don't you?
Yes and you also understand that for it to be a resistance to movement, it also has to be an energy to start movement, which equates to what everything always equates to. Every action (energy/friction) creates an EQUAL and OPPOSITE reaction (resistance/friction).
Do you mean like when hot gasses push against the combustion chamber wall in a rocket engine?
That and every other happening in a medium.
Try not to use my answer as a means of proving rocket propulsion without an external atmospheric resistance, please, otherwise I'll have to come back and explain what's going on and it could extend to many pages of back and forth tit for tat.

Please do, and we can then point out how badly wrong you are.
Your problem is that you cannot point out how badly wrong I am. You can spend all your time telling me I'm wrong and following a pattern given to you by mainstream science books that tell you to accept that rockets work in a way that sounds logical when told in it's raw term, but is soon found out when common sense and logic come  to the fore about atmosphere.

One thing I will give those in mainstream indoctrinated science circles is, they pushed a clever ruse out to cater for rockets in vacuums and knew that most people would never be able to test out whether it was true or not, due to nobody having a sufficient testing area for a rocket.

They use second rate actors to calm those people down who do not buy into the trash by the pretence of testing out so called issues with objects in supposed vacuum chambers and declaring them BUSTED as per normal, each time, making sure they twist up their faces and shout, " in your face, conspiracy theorists", or " get over it, conspiracy theorists."
Any other query that has nothing to do with the major ruses, they simply say, "myth busted" or " myth confirmed" or " plausible."

Mention any conspiracy and they go into a frenzy. It's comical to watch them do this because it tells me just how far people will go to play a part in acting, in the full knowledge that they are acting out something that is deliberately doctored to fit a criteria.

I remember watching Brian Cox and the little supposed crew who man the so called huge vacuum chamber at NASA and they done the bowling ball and feather trick. Something which has apparently been done so many times before so as to become the norm and no big deal at the outcome.
Not Brian Cox and his little vacuum chamber team. they were looking at each other all excited as if a frigging clanger has materialised out of thin air and whistled to them. They were literally pretending to look shocked as if they'd never seen a bowling ball and feather, fall in a vacuum.
Maybe it's because they haven't, eh? but they'd like good old naive Joe public to believe it, as well as the super naive budding scientists who will literally piss their own pants at the sight before them.


Let's make something clear. If people can use their minds to see the world for the simplicity it actually is and can push aside the mind numbing bullshit space science clap trap and all what goes with it...including a frigging warped ball  for an Earth, then they will literally start to feel their brains actually switch on into logical mode.
From that point on, as long as peer pressure doesn't infest the workings of that brain, then people are going to start seeing things in a totally different light, seriously.

Hanging onto equations and complete utter un-provable bullshit that answers nothing realistic will literally warp any persons brain to the point of meltdown, rendering that person about as much use as a legless mute, scrapyard guard dog.

Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1133 on: June 18, 2015, 09:46:10 AM »
I'm sorry, I thought you were going to explain how rockets work....
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

?

Papa Legba

  • Ranters
  • 9566
  • Welcome to the CIA Troll/Shill Society.
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1134 on: June 18, 2015, 11:31:39 AM »
So; unlike myself, none of you have any easily-repeatable experiments or evidence whatsoever to demonstrate how your model of rocketry works.

& mainframes; your post re. conservation of momentum was a bald-faced LIE, as was your previous 'thrust-vectoring does not involve the vectoring of thrust' post.

You will be ignored from now on.

You are all an embarrassment; you have no respect for the laws of physics specifically or science generally.

You offer no evidence for any of your claims, no experiments, nothing.

Just semantic & rhetorical acrobatics, all to defend your Great God NASA.

I can only conclude that you ARE the brain-washed Cultists that I have been implying you were all along.

None of you have been to space & none of you ever will. Because the laws of physics simply do not allow it.

So enjoy your sci-fi fantasies & special-effects extravaganzas; because that's the closest you will ever get.

Oh, & Rayzor; yes, you are ausGeoff. & you are a stain on Occam's good name.

Pathetic, the lot of you...
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1135 on: June 18, 2015, 12:11:34 PM »
Papa - how is my comment on conservation of momentum a lie?

Please explain in detail.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42535
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1136 on: June 18, 2015, 01:08:59 PM »
Umm...  You do realize that friction is the resistance to movement, don't you?
Yes and you also understand that for it to be a resistance to movement, it also has to be an energy to start movement, which equates to what everything always equates to. Every action (energy/friction) creates an EQUAL and OPPOSITE reaction (resistance/friction).
Do you mean like when hot gasses push against the combustion chamber wall in a rocket engine?
That and every other happening in a medium.
Other than exhaust gasses, what medium is inside a rocket engine combustion chamber?

Try not to use my answer as a means of proving rocket propulsion without an external atmospheric resistance, please, otherwise I'll have to come back and explain what's going on and it could extend to many pages of back and forth tit for tat.
I'm not sure of what you're trying to get at.  Right now I'm just trying to get an idea of what you think is going on inside a rocket engine combustion chamber.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

legion

  • 1593
  • You are in my VR
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1137 on: June 18, 2015, 01:52:36 PM »
Umm...  You do realize that friction is the resistance to movement, don't you?
Yes and you also understand that for it to be a resistance to movement, it also has to be an energy to start movement, which equates to what everything always equates to. Every action (energy/friction) creates an EQUAL and OPPOSITE reaction (resistance/friction).
Do you mean like when hot gasses push against the combustion chamber wall in a rocket engine?

The force from the hot gasses is balanced with the force from the internal walls of the combustion chamber (due to the interaction between the two masses). If they weren't balanced, the hot gasses would blow a hole in the chamber.

Look:




"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

?

Papa Legba

  • Ranters
  • 9566
  • Welcome to the CIA Troll/Shill Society.
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1138 on: June 18, 2015, 01:56:30 PM »
Markjo: until you have looked down the back end of a SMAW as it is fired to prove your ridiculous claim that that action of the mass of it's exhaust will not create a reaction with the mass of your cranium, then please butt out.

Same for you, mainframes; we all know that conservation of momentum cannot work without action-reaction pairings, so your word no longer carries weight here.

Goodbye!

I have provided simple, verifiable experiments & evidence for my model of rocket propulsion; if you all have none to show in return to support YOUR model, then please do not post.

But you will, won't you?
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42535
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #1139 on: June 18, 2015, 04:21:53 PM »
Umm...  You do realize that friction is the resistance to movement, don't you?
Yes and you also understand that for it to be a resistance to movement, it also has to be an energy to start movement, which equates to what everything always equates to. Every action (energy/friction) creates an EQUAL and OPPOSITE reaction (resistance/friction).
Do you mean like when hot gasses push against the combustion chamber wall in a rocket engine?

The force from the hot gasses is balanced with the force from the internal walls of the combustion chamber (due to the interaction between the two masses). If they weren't balanced, the hot gasses would blow a hole in the chamber.
True, but the combustion chamber already has a hole in it, so the forces will not be balanced.  These unbalanced forces within the combustion chamber is what causes thrust and pushes the rocket forwards.

Markjo: until you have looked down the back end of a SMAW as it is fired to prove your ridiculous claim that that action of the mass of it's exhaust will not create a reaction with the mass of your cranium, then please butt out.
I never said that exhaust gasses couldn't react with anything after they leave the rocket engine nozzle.  I said that reactions after those gasses leave the nozzle (give or take any steering vanes) won't affect the rocket.  I'm sorry if you can't understand the difference, but I'm not sure how to make it any more plain.

If I throw a baseball and it hits you in the head, how will that affect me?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 04:26:23 PM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.