ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist

Like i said.

Sceppy has "responded" to your questions.
But "responding" doesnt equate to "answering".

Q:   Sceppy, why do things fall down?
R:  things fall down because that is the direction they fall.

Buoyancy bro

Buoyancy bro

Is an upwards force.  What is down?  Why that direction?  Buoyancy doesn't cut it... bro.

Buoyancy bro

Do you mean the upwards force caused by the pressure gradient which is itself caused by gravity?

Oh no all by my little self, aren't you so proud of me.

In a way, yes.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 08, 2021, 08:18:04 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on May 08, 2021, 08:09:06 AM

I think your pathetic dodging and continued dodging is starting to be noticbaly pathetic.

No
I did not telk him to anything.

The only one i am telling to do soemthing is you.

Prove your tilt.
In a hypotehtical globe, What would it be of the turbine at that 30km distance?
Draw the circle.

I've drew a circle and you said nothing.

Kepp playing games
I did say something.
The circle and the triangle together to match the reported massive tilt.
Show us the tilt.

Troll on, king of the trolls.
Jackson should star you in the hobbit prequels.

The way you're going on, it's you that's game playing.
Put some effort in, man.

No they weren't.

If you want answers then ask the right questions and stick to one question at a time and understand it before moving on.
I'm trying to save you wasting your own time saturating questions.

This is for your benefit and to save you getting frustrated.

Learn to understand what answers are, even if you do not accept them.

Quote from: BuoyantBear on May 08, 2021, 03:19:36 PM

Buoyancy bro

Do you mean the upwards force caused by the pressure gradient which is itself caused by gravity?

I thought you people said gravity was a downward force?

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 09, 2021, 03:09:45 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on May 08, 2021, 07:36:26 PM

Quote from: BuoyantBear on May 08, 2021, 03:19:36 PM

Buoyancy bro

Do you mean the upwards force caused by the pressure gradient which is itself caused by gravity?

I thought you people said gravity was a downward force?

Try reading the post before jumping into a frenzy.
And it is. Buoyancy is upwards force caused by the pressure gradient which is itself caused by gravity

Reading isn't the problem, indoctrination screws with your comprehension.  Scepti is fully indoctrinated in his FE cult. 
It's been explained thousands of times to him but he refuses to accept anything that doesn't make him feel like the rebel cult member fighting the "man". 

Hes a cult of one.
Circles are the enemy.
Triangles dont add up to 180.
People are incapable of looking down.
Horizontal atmosphere crops view meanwhile seeing airplanes is perfectly reasonable.

Hes a cult of one.
Circles are the enemy.
Triangles dont add up to 180.
People are incapable of looking down.
Horizontal atmosphere crops view meanwhile seeing airplanes is perfectly reasonable.

Don't forget, per "Scepti the fool", the volume of sphere does not depend on it's radius.  Yeah he admitted to that one too

Quote from: JackBlack on May 08, 2021, 02:07:27 PM

No they weren't.

If you want answers then ask the right questions and stick to one question at a time and understand it before moving on.
I'm trying to save you wasting your own time saturating questions.

This is for your benefit and to save you getting frustrated.

Learn to understand what answers are, even if you do not accept them.

What are the "right" questions?  Apparently explanation of claims isn't it for you.  Not only do you have your own definitions, now you have your own discussion rules.
Your claims are null and void then.  At least until you can actually use normal discussion rules and explain claims made.

If you want answers then ask the right questions and stick to one question at a time and understand it before moving on.

You mean just ask questions you can answer which don't show any problem with your model, rather than the questions which show the actual problems, which you will continue to refuse to answer as they clearly show you are wrong.
Do you want me to ask questions like how the air pushes down an object which is sitting on the ground? And then ignore the logical implications of what would then happen for an object on a wall or ceiling or in mid air?
No thanks.

I'm interested in questions which actually try to determine if your claims can explain reality, if it can explain why things fall and so on.
If anyone is actually honestly interested in if your model is a viable alternative for gravity, they are the right questions.
You only think they aren't the right questions because they show you are wrong and you hate that.

Again, you have played the game of demanding 1 issue or 1 question at a time before, you do it so you can continually run off on a tangent and run through all the different issues never actually dealing with any of them.

You have had your chance at it plenty of times, and you ruined it each time.
You have already had far too many chances.
I'm not going to play your pathetic run around game again.

Answer the simple questions which show your model is pure BS, or stop pretending your model is a viable alternative for gravity.
And stop blatantly lying to everyone by claiming they have already been answered when you cannot answer them.

Again, by what magic does your magical air magically maintain a magical pressure gradient?
By what magic does this magical air of yours magically make the pressure gradient proportional to weight of the fluid?
By what magic does this magical air magically stop the magical high pressure region from decompressing and pushing up the low pressure region above?
By what magic does the magical low pressure air above magically push down an object into a much greater force/resistance of the magical high pressure below?
By what magic does this magical air then magically decide to magically push up some objects instead of magically pushing them down?
By what magic does the air push things down and then resist that downwards motion so differently?

Quote from: JackBlack on May 08, 2021, 07:36:26 PM

Quote from: BuoyantBear on May 08, 2021, 03:19:36 PM

Buoyancy bro

Do you mean the upwards force caused by the pressure gradient which is itself caused by gravity?

I thought you people said gravity was a downward force?

Try reading and understanding what you are responding to, and then actually respond to it rather than just spouting more irrational garbage in your quest to attack the globe at all costs.

Yes, gravity is a downwards force.
It is the very force you need to explain the pressure gradient.
You know, that thing you have been failing to explain with your delusional magic air?
Remember this image:

Notice how the weight of the air increases the pressure as you get further down as the lower layers of air need to hold up the weight of the middle layer in addition to the top?
So like I said, and you clearly ignored, the pressure gradient is caused by gravity.
The DOWNWARDS force of gravity makes the pressure greater the lower down you are.

Then, as all logical thought and experiment shows, this pressure gradient then causes an UPWARDS force on all objects.

If you would like a simpler example, consider a see-saw.
Putting something heavy on one side results in gravity moving it down and as a result it moves the other side up.
That doesn't mean gravity is no longer a downwards force.

So nice and simple for you:
Gravity is downwards force.
Buoyancy, which is caused by the downwards force of gravity, is an upwards force.

So nice and simple for you:
Gravity is downwards force.
Buoyancy, which is caused by the downwards force of gravity, is an upwards force.

Ok then, very simply explain what the downward pressure is that you call, gravity.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 09, 2021, 11:42:06 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on May 09, 2021, 04:17:35 PM

So nice and simple for you:
Gravity is downwards force.
Buoyancy, which is caused by the downwards force of gravity, is an upwards force.

Ok then, very simply explain what the downward pressure is that you call, gravity.

You're not yet ready to learn about gravity.
You fail at maths.
You fail at geometry.
You barely pass in English.
Because you do not understand it, you are not in a position to refute it.

You cannot even grasp the simple concept that everything falls toward the centre of the earth.

Ok then here's a question for you.

If you could dig a hole right through to the centre of your Earth from your north pole and your south pole, to meet. Would you fall down the hole and how far would you fall because you couldn't fall all the way through your Earth because the other side of it would be the same falls.


Soooooo, how far do you fall and what happens after you fall?
I'm sure you can help me understand it....right?

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 10, 2021, 12:12:06 AM

Quote from: Bored on May 10, 2021, 12:06:35 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 09, 2021, 11:42:06 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on May 09, 2021, 04:17:35 PM

So nice and simple for you:
Gravity is downwards force.
Buoyancy, which is caused by the downwards force of gravity, is an upwards force.

Ok then, very simply explain what the downward pressure is that you call, gravity.

You're not yet ready to learn about gravity.
You fail at maths.
You fail at geometry.
You barely pass in English.
Because you do not understand it, you are not in a position to refute it.

You cannot even grasp the simple concept that everything falls toward the centre of the earth.

Ok then here's a question for you.

If you could dig a hole right through to the centre of your Earth from your north pole and your south pole, to meet. Would you fall down the hole and how far would you fall because you couldn't fall all the way through your Earth because the other side of it would be the same falls.


Soooooo, how far do you fall and what happens after you fall?
I'm sure you can help me understand it....right?

I really should make you rephrase this question a few times, while pretending to not know what you're asking.

I don't know what would happen if you jumped into a hole through the earth, I've never done it and am not aware of anyone who claims to have done this.
I could guess.
That would continue to accelerate until you get to the middle where you now be going 'up'. (My guess is that you're acceleration would become less as you get closer to the centre, so there is no abrupt change in acceleration.)
You will now be decelerating until you stop (somewhere below the ground on the opposite side of the earth from which you started, assuming there is some friction/air resistance).
You would then begin falling again and would bounce back and forth until any resistance stops you in the middle.

If there was no friction/air resistance you would fall all the way through and stop at the same height you jumped from on the opposite side. If you don't grab hold of something you will fall back to where you started.

I could of course look it up, I'm sure this question has been posed many times (probably even on this forum, possibly by you).

What do the so called experts say?

Quote from: JackBlack on May 09, 2021, 04:17:35 PM

So nice and simple for you:
Gravity is downwards force.
Buoyancy, which is caused by the downwards force of gravity, is an upwards force.

Ok then, very simply explain what the downward pressure is that you call, gravity.

No.
For starters you yet again completely misrepresent it.
Gravity is not pressure.
Pressure cannot explain what is observed.
Pressure applies a force based upon area.
Gravity applies a force based upon mass.

But more importantly, why should I bother answering any of your questions, when you just ignore any answers provided to you and you continually refuse to answer simple questions addressed to you.

Again, you claim to have a viable alternative for gravity, yet continually refuse to provide any answers to any of the questions which shows that your model defies basic logic.
Perhaps once you have actually answered these questions or admit that you have no answer, I will explain gravity to you yet again.
Can you even admit that you were completely wrong in your latest irrational attack on gravity where you pretended buoyancy meant that gravity was an upwards force?

Again, by what magic does your magical air magically maintain a magical pressure gradient?
By what magic does this magical air of yours magically make the pressure gradient proportional to weight of the fluid?
By what magic does this magical air magically stop the magical high pressure region from decompressing and pushing up the low pressure region above?
By what magic does the magical low pressure air above magically push down an object into a much greater force/resistance of the magical high pressure below?
By what magic does this magical air then magically decide to magically push up some objects instead of magically pushing them down?
By what magic does the air push things down and then resist that downwards motion so differently?

what 'so called experts', I doubt anyone is an expert on this, no one has ever done it.
You could look it up, yourself, if you want something to disagree with without any justification for doing so.

So you don't know and can' find any info on it....right?
There's a good reason for my asking and I think many know what it is which is why they're avoiding it.

Is this one of your simple experiments, that you've done? What was your result?
Which bit of my guess do you not understand? Which bit of my guess do you think is wrong? and why?

I'll let you give me an answer to my question before I tell you.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 09, 2021, 11:42:06 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on May 09, 2021, 04:17:35 PM

So nice and simple for you:
Gravity is downwards force.
Buoyancy, which is caused by the downwards force of gravity, is an upwards force.

Ok then, very simply explain what the downward pressure is that you call, gravity.

No.
For starters you yet again completely misrepresent it.
Gravity is not pressure.
Pressure cannot explain what is observed.
Pressure applies a force based upon area.
Gravity applies a force based upon mass.

Surely you can explain this.

If gravity applies a force upon mass then what is gravity as this force?

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 10, 2021, 08:32:21 AM

Quote from: Bored on May 10, 2021, 03:14:50 AM

what 'so called experts', I doubt anyone is an expert on this, no one has ever done it.
You could look it up, yourself, if you want something to disagree with without any justification for doing so.

So you don't know and can' find any info on it....right?
There's a good reason for my asking and I think many know what it is which is why they're avoiding it.

Quote from: Bored

Is this one of your simple experiments, that you've done? What was your result?
Which bit of my guess do you not understand? Which bit of my guess do you think is wrong? and why?

I'll let you give me an answer to my question before I tell you.

I gave an answer. Most of what happens depends on whether you choose to include atmosphere or not, is this what you wanted to hear? So now you can link it to your denpressure nonsense? Or do you have yet another strawman?

I accept you don't know. I was just wondering what you think the so called experts think about it.

Quote from: Bored

Is this one of your simple experiments, that you've done? What was your result?
Which bit of my guess do you not understand? Which bit of my guess do you think is wrong? and why?

I'll let you give me an answer to my question before I tell you.

What experiment(s) have you done and what were the results?

Quick question regarding experiments. There's one that is commonly done that I can't figure out how denpressure would explain. It's where fluids ( in this case, air) are pumped into a membrane (in this case a soap bubble - Sometimes balloons are used). On one side the membrane is filled to a larger amount on one side of a tube connected to another membrane that is filled to a lesser extent. When the valve is opened between the two, the larger membrane of air gets larger whereas the smaller membrane of air gets smaller.

In denpressure, I would expect the opposite: The larger membrane, the larger stack, should push through to the smaller membrane, the smaller stack. Yet that does not occur. How does denpressure explain this?

Surely you can explain this.

Surely you can answer the trivial questions asked about your alleged alternative, that you have been continuing to avoid and are still trying to avoid by now trying to ask questions back.

Again, answer the questions or admit you have no answer and that your model defies reason, and then we can move on.
Again, by what magic does your magical air magically maintain a magical pressure gradient?
By what magic does this magical air of yours magically make the pressure gradient proportional to weight of the fluid?
By what magic does this magical air magically stop the magical high pressure region from decompressing and pushing up the low pressure region above?
By what magic does the magical low pressure air above magically push down an object into a much greater force/resistance of the magical high pressure below?
By what magic does this magical air then magically decide to magically push up some objects instead of magically pushing them down?
By what magic does the air push things down and then resist that downwards motion so differently?

There's a good reason for my asking and I think many know what it is which is why they're avoiding it.

No, there is an extremely dishonest reason for you asking, and many people likely know what it is.
You are deflecting from your complete inability to rationally defend your model, and dishonestly pretending there is a problem with gravity.
That is not a good reason.
If you had a good reason you would clearly express just what you think the problem is and ask a question.
You know like I have done with your nonsense repeatedly, like how I have explained that if it is just the air, there should be no pressure gradient, that a pressure gradient requires an extra force; and how the pressure gradient would cause the air to push everything upwards.

And because it is nothing more than a pathetic deflection and baseless attack on gravity, I am avoiding it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 10, 2021, 08:32:21 AM

Quote from: Bored

Is this one of your simple experiments, that you've done? What was your result?
Which bit of my guess do you not understand? Which bit of my guess do you think is wrong? and why?

I'll let you give me an answer to my question before I tell you.

What experiment(s) have you done and what were the results?

Quick question regarding experiments. There's one that is commonly done that I can't figure out how denpressure would explain. It's where fluids ( in this case, air) are pumped into a membrane (in this case a soap bubble - Sometimes balloons are used). On one side the membrane is filled to a larger amount on one side of a tube connected to another membrane that is filled to a lesser extent. When the valve is opened between the two, the larger membrane of air gets larger whereas the smaller membrane of air gets smaller.

In denpressure, I would expect the opposite: The larger membrane, the larger stack, should push through to the smaller membrane, the smaller stack. Yet that does not occur. How does denpressure explain this?

I'm not exactly sure what's happening in this set up.
Explain it fully and explain what it is you're puzzled with.


I see syringes, so what's happening?

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 10, 2021, 08:33:55 AM

Surely you can explain this.

Surely you can answer the trivial questions asked about your alleged alternative, that you have been continuing to avoid and are still trying to avoid by now trying to ask questions back.

Course I can and I have and this is your go to retort, that I haven't answered.
You know I have answered but you have decided my answers don't suit you so you make out I haven't answered.
That's your issue.

Quote from: Stash on May 10, 2021, 10:04:34 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 10, 2021, 08:32:21 AM

Quote from: Bored

Is this one of your simple experiments, that you've done? What was your result?
Which bit of my guess do you not understand? Which bit of my guess do you think is wrong? and why?

I'll let you give me an answer to my question before I tell you.

What experiment(s) have you done and what were the results?

Quick question regarding experiments. There's one that is commonly done that I can't figure out how denpressure would explain. It's where fluids ( in this case, air) are pumped into a membrane (in this case a soap bubble - Sometimes balloons are used). On one side the membrane is filled to a larger amount on one side of a tube connected to another membrane that is filled to a lesser extent. When the valve is opened between the two, the larger membrane of air gets larger whereas the smaller membrane of air gets smaller.

In denpressure, I would expect the opposite: The larger membrane, the larger stack, should push through to the smaller membrane, the smaller stack. Yet that does not occur. How does denpressure explain this?

I'm not exactly sure what's happening in this set up.
Explain it fully and explain what it is you're puzzled with.


I see syringes, so what's happening?

At least read what I wrote. The gif is just a visual of the experiment that I wrote out.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 10, 2021, 09:07:23 PM

Quote from: Stash on May 10, 2021, 10:04:34 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 10, 2021, 08:32:21 AM

Quote from: Bored

Is this one of your simple experiments, that you've done? What was your result?
Which bit of my guess do you not understand? Which bit of my guess do you think is wrong? and why?

I'll let you give me an answer to my question before I tell you.

What experiment(s) have you done and what were the results?

Quick question regarding experiments. There's one that is commonly done that I can't figure out how denpressure would explain. It's where fluids ( in this case, air) are pumped into a membrane (in this case a soap bubble - Sometimes balloons are used). On one side the membrane is filled to a larger amount on one side of a tube connected to another membrane that is filled to a lesser extent. When the valve is opened between the two, the larger membrane of air gets larger whereas the smaller membrane of air gets smaller.

In denpressure, I would expect the opposite: The larger membrane, the larger stack, should push through to the smaller membrane, the smaller stack. Yet that does not occur. How does denpressure explain this?

I'm not exactly sure what's happening in this set up.
Explain it fully and explain what it is you're puzzled with.


I see syringes, so what's happening?

At least read what I wrote. The gif is just a visual of the experiment that I wrote out.

What is it you're not getting?

Explain it with gravity first so I know what you're trying to say and then explain what you think should be happening in denpressure, just so I get a full understanding of what you're trying to put forward.

I have to be careful with you people because you twist stuff so I'm just wanting to be clear on what's what.

I managed to find it.

What is happening is, a low pressure is created along the horizontal tube because the left syringe has more pressure applied to fill the bubble which sits in a lower set of stacked layers and is adding slight displacement of the air by the actual bubble itself which transfers to the other smaller bubble which cannot resist that extra pressure, as small as it seems to you.
Basically it causes the air to squeeze the smaller bubble, up.

I managed to find it.

What is happening is, a low pressure is created along the horizontal tube because the left syringe has more pressure applied to fill the bubble which sits in a lower set of stacked layers and is adding slight displacement of the air by the actual bubble itself which transfers to the other smaller bubble which cannot resist that extra pressure, as small as it seems to you.
Basically it causes the air to squeeze the smaller bubble, up.

Sorry, I should have included a link to the original video for clarity. I thought the description and gif for visual brevity would be enough.

I'm not quite following. The syringes are not really in the equation anymore. They were just used to blow up the soap bobbles. The "System" is closed in the sense that each bubble is filled with air, one more than the other with that tube in-between the two which has air in it as well. in other words, any pressure is in the bubbles, the syringes don't matter at this point.

See in this experiment, it's just two balloons and a tube between the two. That's what I mean by a closed system:



When he opens the valve on the tube connected to the small bubble, as we see, the small bubble evacuates it's air and sends it through the tube making the larger bubble on the left even larger.

Laplace's law states that the pressure inside an inflated elastic container with a curved surface, e.g., a soap bubble or a balloon, is inversely proportional to the radius as long as the surface tension is presumed to change little. In essence, the smaller the radius of the curved container the greater the pressure.

So the smaller bubble with greater pressure pushes its air into the larger bubble with the lower pressure. Bubble-to-bubble. No atmospheric displacement outside the bubble is required.

Does Laplace's Law agree with how denpressure works?

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 10, 2021, 11:21:37 PM

I managed to find it.

What is happening is, a low pressure is created along the horizontal tube because the left syringe has more pressure applied to fill the bubble which sits in a lower set of stacked layers and is adding slight displacement of the air by the actual bubble itself which transfers to the other smaller bubble which cannot resist that extra pressure, as small as it seems to you.
Basically it causes the air to squeeze the smaller bubble, up.

Sorry, I should have included a link to the original video for clarity. I thought the description and gif for visual brevity would be enough.

I'm not quite following. The syringes are not really in the equation anymore. They were just used to blow up the soap bobbles. The "System" is closed in the sense that each bubble is filled with air, one more than the other with that tube in-between the two which has air in it as well. in other words, any pressure is in the bubbles, the syringes don't matter at this point.

See in this experiment, it's just two balloons and a tube between the two. That's what I mean by a closed system:



When he opens the valve on the tube connected to the small bubble, as we see, the small bubble evacuates it's air and sends it through the tube making the larger bubble on the left even larger.

Laplace's law states that the pressure inside an inflated elastic container with a curved surface, e.g., a soap bubble or a balloon, is inversely proportional to the radius as long as the surface tension is presumed to change little. In essence, the smaller the radius of the curved container the greater the pressure.

So the smaller bubble with greater pressure pushes its air into the larger bubble with the lower pressure. Bubble-to-bubble. No atmospheric displacement outside the bubble is required.

Does Laplace's Law agree with how denpressure works?

Density beats volume in terms of overcoming it.

The bigger balloon is holding much much more volume than the smaller balloon. This stretches the balloon and makes it less dense over area than the smaller balloon.
This means the air inside the smaller balloon is more compressed by the air around it which pushes that air into the weaker skinned (larger) balloon.

Quote from: JackBlack on May 10, 2021, 01:40:12 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 10, 2021, 08:33:55 AM

Surely you can explain this.

Surely you can answer the trivial questions asked about your alleged alternative, that you have been continuing to avoid and are still trying to avoid by now trying to ask questions back.

Course I can and I have

Then stop claiming you can and actually do it.
The reason I keep saying you haven't answered, is because you haven't.
Instead you use whatever dishonest BS you can to avoid answering, because you know you don't have an answer.
I will stop "making out" that you haven't answered when you actually provide an answer.
Your inability to provide answers is entirely your issue, not mine.
Me pointing out your non-answers do not answer the issue is entirely your issue, not mine.

Again, if you actually had answers you would have provided them.
Again, by what magic does your magical air magically maintain a magical pressure gradient?
By what magic does this magical air of yours magically make the pressure gradient proportional to weight of the fluid?
By what magic does this magical air magically stop the magical high pressure region from decompressing and pushing up the low pressure region above?
By what magic does the magical low pressure air above magically push down an object into a much greater force/resistance of the magical high pressure below?
By what magic does this magical air then magically decide to magically push up some objects instead of magically pushing them down?
By what magic does the air push things down and then resist that downwards motion so differently?