Are There Extra Lands

Same shit, different day.

You claim over and over again that there's overwhelming evidence, when in fact there isn't. What there is an overwhelming amount of is paid shills and useful idiots who don't want to argue with experts because they think they might be embarrassed if they challenged those in the know. These useful idiots often try to talk people out of legitimate questions, fearing embarrassing confrontation. Meanwhile, the shills act like what is actually only a small handful of scientists exerting undue influence (let's see, Eratosthenes, Copernicus, Galileo, Einstein, Hawking...) because media gushes over them and calls them genius.

There are an overwhelming number of shills.

There is not overwhelming evidence, there never has been, and there never will be. We stand upright and do not stumble. On an actual sphere, even our ability to walk would be hindered by the curve, which btw is more than this supposed 8 inches because of basic rules of geometry.

Same shit, different day.

Thanks for summing up your post.

You claim over and over again that there's overwhelming evidence, when in fact there isn't.

Then why are you unable to deal with what has already been presented in this thread?
Why can you only lie and dodge trying to explain?

It sure seems like you know there is overwhelming evidence and just dodge at all costs.

We stand upright and do not stumble. On an actual sphere, even our ability to walk would be hindered by the curve, which btw is more than this supposed 8 inches because of basic rules of geometry.

You keep spouting this BS, even after that 8 inch BS has been refuted countless times, and you cannot explain what magic would hinder our ability to walk, etc.
You just act like a curve is magic and will destroy everything.

You haven't presented anything. You've spent most of the time here arguing with me about the existence or goodness of God, as though that wasn't the same question. Listen, your primary excuse for not believing in God is "But look at the evil in the world. If God were there, he should swoop in and save us." So look, within the next five years, I could die of diabetes or its inverse (low blood sugar). Or I could live to see both die, then drink myself to death/find a hill to throw myself off of/just otherwise kill myself. Or I could live long enough be homeless, as I don't really have a drive to speak of. Or I could live in an increasingly lonely, increasingly secular world that worsens all of its problems instead of solving them. I could keep alive just to keep alive in a world that doesn't want me.
The Buddhists call this the Desire Realm. If you're wondering why this is, it's because every evil and evil good in this world is the result of desire. We humans make things with our desires. Dogs used to be types of wolves. We made them docile, we bred them until they were funny looking and called them poodles. Watermelons used to be smal with huge seeds, oily, and not very sweet. God gave us perfect power to change our surroundings. Because of this and ownership rules of land, any idiot can call the police, and you can be arrested for sleeping on land. This means this Earth is 100% a prison. You are punished if you  are homeless, if you are too poor to manage to earn rent. Desperate to escape the crowded homeless shelters intended to help them, some people take on jobs at Amazon, earning enough to be caught in a vicious cycle of having enough to not be homeless, leaving the homeless shelter, and winding up back there.
If God were to be judged on the state of the world, it is completely horrible. ...Or is it? What we are actually seeing is a paving over. I challenge you to take a drive and look at the countryside. First, look at all the drones, electric lines, pavement, electrical towers. All these things are Big State infrastructure. When I tried to run away from home, I got from Virginia to about Kansas before traffic slowed to a crawl. It turned out I was a missing person, and it was a welfare check (this later came back to bite them when I almost got jailed for being in a near accident coming home, and they decided I stole the car, I avoided it only by calling my folks and getting them to help). If this much surveillance can be done for one person, then yes we have an awful tradeoff for your 5G.
But there is another way to look at this world. This time ignore all the tacked on stuff and look at the farms and forests and so on. This world ought to be a dead thing, but it's very much alive. There are rows and rows of trees, flowers, grasses, animals, all in a Sunday trip. Is our gift of life misused for enslavement of each other? Damn right it is! But God offers you perfect freedom, even to do that. God is no tyrant, you are. You call him a tyrannical POS, but it is our choices, our desires that led things to this. What is it that want? God will grant it to you. The desires are in fact the problem. We are under spiritual slavery to our own desires.  Jesus came not to save us from Caesar, the ruling power of state, but to save us from this "power of positive thinking." Earth is supposed to suck. We can try to make it better, but that's not what Jesus saved people from. It was from our distorted mindset. We cannot permanently change this world into paradise, nor totally into a hellhole. It's a mix of good and bad.

So you've argued with me about this simple fact, that God exists and that he is good (God is good, but this world isn't designed as good or bad). Then out of nowhere you declare that there's a mountain evidence that has never been addressed. Bullshit, I usually deal with your hill in one post.

You haven't presented anything.

Go back and read the thread. Preferably from before you decided it would be good to derail it with your imaginary fiend because you think you can defend that, and either way it would hide your inability to defend your fantasy of a flat Earth.

Also notice how I didn't say I presented it. I said it was presented in this thread.

Key things that have been presented in this thread are the angle of elevation of Polaris, the existence of the south celestial pole, and the behaviour of the sun.

Three things flat Earthers cannot explain.

Look at how even now, with complaining that I have allegedly not presented anything, you still deflect to your evil POS?

Listen, your primary excuse for not believing in God is "But look at the evil in the world. If God were there, he should swoop in and save us."

No, that is not my reasoning at all, and demonstrating a fundamental problem with people like you.

You treat believing in a fairy tale as the default.
The default is not believing something.
You shouldn't be asking why people don't believe, you should be asking why people do.

The primary reason I don't believe in your imaginary fiend is that there is absolutely no reason to.
The claimed evidence is pathetic.
Pascal's wager entirely fails.
And any omnipotent god which exists clearly doesn't care about us, or is actively trying to harm us.

God gave us perfect power to change our surroundings.

Pure BS.
There is no reason to think your god gave us anything.
And we don't have perfect power to change our surroundings.

We only developed fruits through a very long process of selective breeding.
And they still aren't perfect.

You are punished if you  are homeless, if you are too poor to manage to earn rent. Desperate to escape the crowded homeless shelters intended to help them, some people take on jobs at Amazon, earning enough to be caught in a vicious cycle of having enough to not be homeless, leaving the homeless shelter, and winding up back there.

If only a loving God actually gave a damn.

I challenge you to take a drive and look at the countryside.

Where we see the harsh reality of nature. Where animals kill each other to survive.
Where even plants try to kill each to survive.
Look at the bees, which kill themselves to defend the nest.
Yes, what a great world your "loving" god made.

This time ignore all the tacked on stuff and look at the farms and forests and so on.

Why look at farms? They are also man made.

This world ought to be a dead thing

Why? Because you say so?
Yet again you just assert pure BS to pretend your god is good.

And even when you do so, you cherry pick things you like while ignoring all the bad.

What is it that want? God will grant it to you.

Tell that to all the poor homeless people, see how they react.

So you've argued with me about this simple fact, that God exists and that he is good

That is not a fact.
That is your baseless claim, which you cannot justify at all.
Attempting to justify it requires you to blatantly lie, or just entirely ignore issues.

Then out of nowhere you declare that there's a mountain evidence that has never been addressed. Bullshit, I usually deal with your hill in one post.

No, not out of nowhere.
If anything, out of confusion of the same kind of BS being repeated in multiple different threads, where I confused this thread for the one where they were claiming Earth is flat because the Bible says so, to counter the mountains of evidence showing it isn't.

You also rarely deal with my post in any honest way.
Instead you ignore the facts you don't like and repeat the same refuted BS.

In other words, if you want the cause of evil, you as an atheist ought to blame God only after you have exhausted all human causes. That you aren't doing that tells me you are something other than an atheist.

In other words, if you want the cause of evil, you as an atheist ought to blame God only after you have exhausted all human causes. That you aren't doing that tells me you are something other than an atheist.

No, in other words, you as a theist in an abusive relationship with their imagination, will make any excuse possible to pretend God is good.
While anyone honestly looking at the world would see that it is fundamentally incompatible with a loving, omnipotent god.

I don't blame god.
I just recognise the fact that if a god did make the world, it is to blame for these things.
You on the other hand wish to overlook this and do anything you can to pretend it is humans for anything bad, and try your hardest to just ignore anything which you can't blame on humans.

And there is a very simple reason why.
The entire reason you have fled to this religion is because you cannot handle reality.
You cannot handle the universe being vast and you ultimately being inconsequential.
You are desperate for a higher being that loves you.
So accepting that any such higher being doesn't love you entirely defeats the point of you believing in one in the first place.
So in your desperation, of course you will believe it is good.

Also, I notice you still didn't deal with the mountains of evidence.

Is it because you know you stand no chance but hope you do stand a chance with your religious BS because it is more mainstream?

don't blame god.
I just recognise the fact that if a god did make the world, it is to blame for these things.

So, lemme clarify and/or revise something I said before.

There are five types of faith.

---

Good faith. You/someone else prays, and circumstances work out for the better.
Mixed faith. You pray and things work out okay. Not perfect, but alright. It is sufficiently open-ended, that you could theoretically complain about something if you wanted.
Bad faith. You think about the worst possible thing and it happens. Typically, this is not formally prayed for except occasionally, "Please God, my life has been so painful. Just let me die" or something petty like "Punish that man."
Contradictory faith. You pray for one thing and the oppose happens.
No faith. This is what would happen if there were no God, or if God ad no power. It is actually in some way worse than bad faith, as it invites entropy. Effectively, if you have no faith, everything falls apart. This is what happens to you if your doubts harden to unbelief.

---

If you are an atheist, the last three consciously happen, because you inherently believe in a godless uncaring world. If something different happens, it's because God is at work despite you. If you're a theist, the last two shouldn't happen, though of course sometimes they do.

In other words, because you blame God, you invite evil upon yourself.

God is not punishing you. The nature of this world is to invite good and evil. This is what Adam and Eve ate.

Whatever good you ask for, you attract. Whatever evil you ask for, you also attract. This is how prayer works.

Now, how I'd prefer prayer to work, is a lot more mixed prayers, and a great deal less even of the good prayers. If like attracts like, it is far too easy for some people to seem to get all the breaks, while others are stuck in a spiral of bad attitude and depression.

If you do not believe in God, you ought to at least read A Course In Miracles and/or The Secret. These are about the power of good/bad thoughts and how they shape our reality. Real life example. You apply to a job expecting not to be hired. You are surly to the interviewer. You are surly to the secretary and some of the employees you pass by. Your bad attitude (attitude, without any talk of faith) makes coworkers not want to hire you. In the same way, during a hurricane, you can either sink into despair after water leaks or you can think about what you can do (actions, without any talk of faith). One of these sits in a corner sulking while water sits around in a pool, the other moves items to another floor and manages to minimize the damage.

So, lemme clarify and/or revise something I said before.

You mean make up more nonsense?

It is actually in some way worse than bad faith

But not worse than contradictory faith, where God is actively out to harm you.

Effectively, if you have no faith, everything falls apart.

No it doesn't.

If you are an atheist, the last three consciously happen, because you inherently believe in a godless uncaring world. If something different happens, it's because God is at work despite you. If you're a theist, the last two shouldn't happen, though of course sometimes they do.

And more nonsense.
It doesn't matter if you believe in a god or not. It either exists or it doesn't.
So if a god doesn't exist, then the last one happens, regardless of if you are a theist or not.
If a god does exist, the last one cannot happen.

This also shows a massive problem with your fantasy.
You leave out the option of no faith with a god existing.
The only way in which that would be reasonable is if you claim god is just a figment of your imagination and only manifests in your imagination.

In other words, because you blame God, you invite evil upon yourself.

Again, I don't blame god.
Instead I recognise that the god of the Bible is an evil tyrant; and that a good, omnipotent god is fundamentally incompatible with this world.

These are about the power of good/bad thoughts and how they shape our reality.

Which in no way needs a god.

People who think they will fail are more likely to do so.
People who think they will succeed are more likely to be convincing and con people into going along with pure BS.

This has nothing to do with a god.

No faith means not even faith in your own actions. If you sit around doing nothing, nothing will happen. If I were to eat and sleep but never exercise, I could expect to probably develop diabetes and/or bed sores and/or some kind of fungal infection from the same dirty clothing and bedding. No faith means doing nothing. Faith is not simply our wishes but our attitudes and actions.

God is an evil tyrant

I have heard this before.

Islam basically asserts that Allah does whatever he wills, even if it's to cause harm. In the book Nomad, the author describes what this mentality is like.
She talks about how the apartment had had cracks in it, and puddles formed. She had malaria twice, and suggested they maybe dry these puddles so it wouldn't make mosquito breeding grounds. Instead, they kinda did nothing. Mosquitoes kinda swarmed around.

A fatalist or God-hating attitude keeps people from making practical steps to improve their life. "God is an evil tyrant," but if you expect the worst instead of doing your best, then you ought to expect what happens to you. God didn't give her family malaria. They relied on a worthless system that didn't practice common sense hygiene and instead called it God's will that they are sick. If you never water a garden, is it God's will that it turns into a desert? Or is it your lack of action?

Good things happen despite you doing nothing. They never happen because of you doing nothing.

No faith means not even faith in your own actions.

So entirely inconsistent with what you said; and nothing at all to do with a god.

If you want to play that game, then atheists can be at any point.
That includes believing in themselves and having good things happen.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144

God is an evil tyrant

I have heard this before.

And yet you cannot refute it.

A fatalist or God-hating attitude keeps people from making practical steps to improve their life.

Again, I don't hate your imaginary friend.
I recognise it is evil.
There is a big difference.

God didn't give her family malaria.

According to your fantasy, who created malaria? Your god.
Why?
Why would a loving god ever create malaria?
There is no excuse.

Yet again, you make up whatever excuse you can to blame man, never allowing any blame to fall onto the being you believe is responsible for everything.
Again, this is a classic sign of an abusive relationship.

If you want to play that game, then atheists can be at any point. That includes believing in themselves and having good things happen.

Faith is not belief. Faith comes from the word root for fidelity. That is, it's sticking to your guns. You are entirely okay with being an atheist, a theist, a pantheist, a polytheist, or even an anti-theist. God does care. He even says so through his prophets!

But if you refuse to serve the LORD, then choose today whom you will serve. Would you prefer the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates? Or will it be the gods of the Amorites in whose land you now live?

Faith is about your words, your actions, everything you are being committed. You can even be agnostic. What doesn't work is saying one thing where you are basically lying about your own position. That is...
What you cannot do, and have your faith work, is tell me you don't believe in God (atheism) and then tell me God is a tyrannical POS (anti-theism) and then tell me that despite you not having faith, things work out for you.

Make up your mind!

And yet you cannot refute it.

Sure I can. Despite being out of profitable work for about two or three years, God has given me food and shelter this whole time, through numerous funnel systems (my parents, helping in food bank charity, helping out with growing a garden, etc). I who if I worked on my own quickly found it extremely difficult to make ends meet, have managed not only not to starve but do extremely well.
If good things happening to you are a sign of God's favor, I have plenty happening me. But lest you think that prosperity gospel is my thing, hardship is also a blessing. Because God is not a tyrant, he allows pain and suffering. You see, boredom is actually closely linked with severe depression, and I have things to worry about and do to keep me from killing myself off (the balance is tilted more toward boredom tho).

I don't hate your imaginary friend. I recognize it as evil.

Once again, contradiction plagues your intellectual faith.

If you accept something is evil, you regard it with either hate or fear. That is, If I were to say "climate change is evil", I am calling it anathema to me. It is something I either want to avoid (fear) or want to rid the world of (hatred). Only if you want to be left to your own beliefs would I say you can say God is evil without hating him. If you want to rid the world of believers in God by talking them out of their beliefs, then you hate God.
Then you contradict yourself again (on a roll here ) by claiming God is evil imaginary. For purposes of argument, I hold an imaginary ball in my hand. I has no traits other than being imaginary. I can't hate it, I can't love it, I can't call it good or evil. Something imaginary doesn't exist, and thus cannot be a target of any morals you could assign to it. I isn't there for you to be angry at, to fear, or even to ignore.

Malaria incubates because of mosquitoes ability to take blood. That is, the mosquito is actually sick from a parasite, and it spreads this to humans. It also takes this parasite from sick humans. Do you see the problem? Where does this disease come from? If you don't believe in God, then you have a tautology paradox where the thing is there because it's there.

Faith is not belief.

Yes it is.
Especially with how you have described it.
And especially regarding belief in things of which there is insufficient evidence to draw that conclusion.

Again, with the BS you have provided, you don't need a god for faith.

Your position is so pathetic you need to keep contradicting yourself because you can't mount a rational defence.

How about you stop just spouting whatever BS comes to your mind, take a break to think, write down what you think, make sure it is consistent, and then come back.

Faith comes from the word root for fidelity.

To present this honestly, you would say they both come from the same root.
Looking it up, it appears fidelity was derived from faith, not the other way around.
And they basically both come from meaning trust.

God does care.

As if it is an evil POS.
A loving god wouldn't care if you believed in it or not.

What doesn't work is saying one thing where you are basically lying about your own position.

So nothing like what I am doing.
Again, I don't need to believe your evil POS exists, to be able to describe the fictional character of the bible as an evil tyrant; nor do I need to believe it exists to point out the fact that a loving, all powerful god is incompatible with this universe.

God has given me food and shelter this whole time, through numerous funnel systems

i.e. God didn't give it to you, other people did.

If good things happening to you are a sign of God's favor

And more of the standard abusive relationship BS.
You see anything good as the work of God, while place all the blame for anything bad on humanity.
Why can't humanity be the source of that good?
How could humanity be the source of so many things that would be pure evil if created by a god, like countless diseases and natural disasters?

Because God is not a tyrant

If he cares about you believing in him and worshipping him and will make or allow you to suffer if you don't, while protecting those who do, then it is an evil tyrant.
If it threatens you with eternal torment if you don't obey, then it is a tyrant.

Once again, contradiction plagues your intellectual faith.

Once again, you fail to understand simple English and blatantly lie about me.
Once again, there is no contradiction.

If you accept something is evil, you regard it with either hate or fear.

No, you don't, not always.
Recognising something is evil does not require you to hate it or fear it.
It doesn't require you to want to avoid it or rid the world of it.
Why would I fear something I don't believe exists?
Why would I try to rid the world of something that doesn't exist?

Do you want to rid the world of Hitler? If so, you are too late and can't.
Do you want to avoid Hitler? If so, what is there to avoid given he is already dead?
So I will assume no for both of those.
Does that mean you don't think Hitler was evil?

The only way you could even attempt to justify your position is if you have hate basically just mean you don't like it. At which point there is nothing wrong with not liking an imaginary thing. There is no contradiction.

Again, I don't need to believe your evil POS exists, to recognise that it is an evil POS.
I don't need to think Voldemort exists to recognise Voldemort is evil.
I don't need to think Palpatine exists to recognise Palpatine is evil.
I don't need to think Hitler is still alive to recognise Hitler is evil.

You are inventing a contradiction where none exists; and focusing so heavily on it, because you can't defend your evil POS.

on a roll here

A roll of lies from you most certainly.

Do you see the problem? Where does this disease come from?

According to your fantasy, your god.
That makes your god evil, and malaria an act of evil.
This is one of the many reasons why the universe is incompatible with a loving, all powerful god.

you have a tautology paradox where the thing is there because it's there.

As opposed to your god, which you believe is there because it's there.

Yes it is.
Especially with how you have described it.
And especially regarding belief in things of which there is insufficient evidence to draw that conclusion.

Consider these passages.

Hope is as hollow as fear.

What does it mean that hope is as hollow as fear?
Hope and fear are both phantoms
that arise from thinking of the self.

When we don’t see the self as self,
what do we have to fear?

Stop thinking, and end all your problems.

It's not from the Bible. It's from the Tao te Ching. No, the latter, doesn't mean become stupid. It means, taken with the other passage, that at all times we use faith, not simply when we kneel down and clasp out hands. Every stray expectation we have affects how events play out. Because how we react to things and people (the world) determines end result. Again, if you walk into a room expecting to be beaten up, and you are rude to everyone in the room, you can expect to be beaten up. If you expectations  are unrealistic, good or bad, you wind up with a skewed version of reality.
Now let's compare.

See the world as your self. Have faith in the way things are.
Love the world as your self; then you can care for all things.

Love your neighbor as yourself

Same difference.

To present this honestly, you would say they both come from the same root.
Looking it up, it appears fidelity was derived from faith, not the other way around.
And they basically both come from meaning trust.

To trust, yes. To be able to accept things and remain firm in your ideals, come what may. Being stuck in a rainstorm, still believing God intends good for you? That's faith. Having miracle after miracle happen all around you, and still not believing in God? Also faith. Saying God isn't real, then saying he's evil? That's contradiction, not faith.
You can believe is you will, but being logically inconsistent is a way to make yourself nuts. Trust me. 

A loving god wouldn't care if you believed in it or not.

That's an apathetic God. To some extent, God forgives you for not bowing and scraping. Because... God is not a tyrant. Because God loves you more than you love him. Not caring is something else entirely.
Tyrants demand adoration and attention, they thrive on control. When was the last time you personally witnessed a fire and brimstone event? Now, when was the last time you saw crops being helped out by rain? Did you care that the crops/grass etc are healthy? No, you're not the type. Is God gonna rain down hellfire on you for not praising him? No.

So nothing like what I am doing.

So totally what you are doing.
"God doesn't exist."
"God is an evil POS."
"I don't hate God."
One of these must be true. The other two are lies. Again, pick one, and stick with it.

God didn't give it to you, other people did.

Hold up, there buddy.
"God created those mosquitoes"
"God didn't give it to you, other people did."
Both of these must be true. Either God made neither and is to blame for neither, or God made both. Or God made both, but evil is from our choices and perceptions. Mosquitoes choose to bite humans (because we are tasty), and that's why we get malaria. They could stick to an all-beef diet instead. Instead of bemoaning it, o cold be flattered that you are so delicious.
I believe in choices, so that last one for me. God makes both, it's up to us to deal with things.
 

You see anything good as the work of God, while place all the blame for anything bad on humanity.

If you actually understood my position, you wouldn't dispute this.

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Hear, O Israel: God is our Lord, God is one

Good and evil are delusions. God creates events for our growth or amusement, but we defined them as good or evil.

Is this memory joyful? Or sad? It's both.
How we define these events affects our future reactions.

It means, taken with the other passage, that at all times we use faith, not simply when we kneel down and clasp out hands.

Which is just further refuting your previous BS.
This is further demonstrating how atheists can have have, that you don't need a god for it.

Saying God isn't real, then saying he's evil? That's contradiction, not faith.

No, it's neither.
Just like saying Voldemort is an evil fictional character.

You can believe is you will, but being logically inconsistent is a way to make yourself nuts.

So stop being inconsistent.
Stop contradicting yourself

Stop trying to have anything good be from god but anything bad be from man.

That's an apathetic God.

No, an apathetic god would also not care, but that doesn't mean a loving god would care if you loved it or not.
If you need a comparison, a loving parent isn't going to let their kid die just because their kid doesn't love them or worship them.

To some extent, God forgives you for not bowing and scraping.

The fact that it is only some extent shows that that god you are talking about is not loving.
The fact that you frame it for needing forgiveness shows it is an evil tyrant.

A loving god wouldn't hold it against you and would say you need forgiveness for it.

Tyrants demand adoration and attention, they thrive on control.

Just like the Biblical God.

when was the last time you saw crops being helped out by rain

Again, if you want to try giving your god credit for good things, then it is only fair to also blame it for every bad thing. Like every person who suffers from a disease.

So totally what you are doing.

No. Nothing like what I am doing.
You saying it, and repeatedly mischaracterising my position doesn't magically make your BS true.

Try actually addressing what I have said, rather than repeating the same pathetic, refuted BS.

Hold up, there buddy.

Yes, hold up there.
Stop fabricating quotes.
Again, this shows your hypocrisy. It demonstrates how you are in an abusive relationship with your imagination.
Anything bad, you make excuses, anything good, even when directly coming from other people, you say is God.
A loving god wouldn't have made malaria.

If you actually understood my position, you wouldn't dispute this.

I do understand your position.
You are in an abusive relationship with your imagination.

Good and evil are delusions.

Then stop saying God is good.
Stop talking about good things happening.

What I'm saying is th at you're not an atheist.
You waffle in your speech between assertions of atheism and anti-theism. An actual atheist says "I don't believe God exists" and nothing you can say makes them care about religion. You say, "God doesn't exist and he's evil/tyrannical POS."  That's an indefensible argument.

I am friends with someone closer to actually being an atheist, he doesn't take that position that I remember. Muslim background, so he may be pretending but personally I don't care so long as his internal logic is consistent. He's not keen on people telling him about religion, but that's different. Deciding that people are stupid or mean or whatever for believing in God is a defensible position. My online forum is not theologically monolithic. I don't need (or want) everyone to believe the same as me. But you don't even believe the same as yourself!

Atheists usually do run afoul of actually needing a God in their equation of how things work, but that's a minor point when compared to what you've said repeatedly.
If something is imaginary, you can't label it with any attributes, not just good and evil. "This nonexistent onion is so stinky", "This nonexistent dog is so cute", or "This imaginary God is evil." If you said any of these, I can rightly ask you, "Are you high? How can you say one moment that something exists and the next call this a tyrant?!?"


Mmmm, handlebar mustache.

The point being, as much as possible, having a consistent outlook means you have consistent expectations. Just ask me, and I will tell you that there are two places in my life where I am not at all consistent. One is that I have only a vague notion about afterlife, waffling between several concepts without a good resolution (that's to be expected, as this is a great unknown). The second is that I'm shaky about my happiness, because I don't know what I want out of life. I won't tell you that I know how to be happy but I do know how you can be hapy, by not repeating my mistakes!

Fictional and imaginary are two different things. A fictional character objectively exists within the pages of that universe. You don't doubt that Voldemort exists as part of that book, and you are apathetic to him outside it. That's not what's happening here. There's no sense of suspension of disbelief, but a much more active notion that I am wrong for believing as I do. Outside of a Potterverse forum, nobody would get strong bent out of shape about Voldemort. Everywhere "atheists" exist, they rant and rave about how bad it is that God does things.

So stop being inconsistent.
Stop contradicting yourself

Stop trying to have anything good be from god but anything bad be from man.

Says the guy who tells me that cancer and mosquitoes must be created by God, but when I attribute blessings that people bestowed on me to God (which is Biblical, as the people of the Church doing things for Jesus are called the Body of Christ), you say that's no God or that he's evil.

I'm not being contradictory. Both are made of God but I don't blame God for them, because I know it's a human failing (our knowledge of good and evil) that makes us see this as harmful.

You have never stopped being contradictory:
1. Hating on someone who is not only fictional but according to you nonexistent or imaginary.
2. Telling me you don't hate God when you actually use the words "evil"," tyrant ", and "POS." 
3. Telling me that I am contradicting myself for believing everything bad comes from humans and everything good comes from God, then all too obviously having the exact opposite position.
4. Yes that's right, you tell me "who created cancer or who created mosquitoes" despite your first position that God is supposed not to exist.
5. But you also don't allow for the belief that goodness can happen through humans. I never said humans weren't capable of goodness, only that God as I know him is a being where our definitions of good and evil don't even apply. Only humans do evil, because humans actively decide to react to good or evil.

Everything bad comes from humans because they have perceptions, reactions, and attitudes. They do evil (but they also do good, I'm not assigning blame here).
This position is logically defensible, because it is taking the stance that all things are created by God directly (through creation itself) or indirectly (by humans who are in turn created by God). Free will itself is neither good nor evil, but contains good and evil decisions. The reason the reverse isn't true is that God's creations are neutral. Think about mosquitoes. Now, you label them as evil, and proof that God is evil. But mosquitoes can be made to spread anything carried by the blood (including antibodies). There are actual benefits of mosquitoes.
https://endmosquitoes.com/10-benefits-of-mosquitoes-how-are-they-helpful-to-humans/
Even cancer cells have an important benefit to medicine in field of regeneration and stem cells (if we can use them safely). But I'm sure you tell me now that I said that, that it's only thanks to humans! Who made our minds? Didn't you yourself tell me that if we do evil, it has to be blamed on God? But medicine, oho, that's a different story huh?

Good exists, and God is Good. True Goodness is existence itself, whereas knowledge of good and evil judges things as "good" or "evil". But these are not actual things, they are labels. Goodness (capital) is something that isn't labeled, but something balanced.

If it seems like I change my position, it's because I'm trying to get you to understand. You've contradicted yourself about three to five times just in the last post.

What I'm saying is th at you're not an atheist.

And what I am saying is that you are a liar who is in an abusive relationship with their imagination, who cannot handle reality so clings to a fantasy.

An actual atheist says "I don't believe God exists" and nothing you can say makes them care about religion.

Wrong again.
An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in gods.
That is all.
No extra BS needs to be added on.
Atheists can care about religion, due to all the harm it is causing.
Atheists can rightly point out that the god of the Bible is an evil POS, a childish evil tyrant, that no decent human being would ever worship except out of stupidity, cowardice or brainwashing.
Atheists can rightly point out that this world is fundamentally incompatible with a loving, all powerful god.

None of that requires them to believe in a god, so none of that means they can't be an atheist.

This is an incredibly simple thing to understand; but because you can't mount a rational defence you just keep spouting the same refuted BS.

You are yet to show an actual contradiction between what I have said.
Instead, you just make up quotes, and repeatedly lie about me and repeatedly pretend there is a contradiction.

How about you forget your god for a second, and we discuss Voldemort.
Is Voldemort an evil tyrant?
i.e. in the fictional world of Harry Potter, is Voldemort an evil tyrant?

Can you answer that question without a bunch of convoluted BS?

Again, as I have repeatedly explained, fictional characters can be evil.
Calling those fictional characters evil does not mean you believe they exist in reality.

Atheists usually do run afoul of actually needing a God in their equation of how things work

No, they don't.
As explained, your god solves nothing.
It is not needed at all.

If something is imaginary, you can't label it with any attributes

Yes, you can.
Something does not need to exist in reality to be able to be described.
Fictional characters are given all sorts of attributes.

Why don't you go find every single author of a fictional work, including games, books, movies, artwork, and so on; and go off at them for giving attributes to these imaginary things?

This just demonstrates how pathetic and desperate your position is.

You know you cannot defend your imaginary abuser, so you try to claim that the only way anyone can criticise it is if they believe it exists.
Truly pathetic.

The point being, as much as possible, having a consistent outlook means you have consistent expectations.

And I do.
I am remaining consistent.
I am not repeatedly going back and forth like you are.

Just ask me, and I will tell you that there are two places in my life where I am not at all consistent.

Your abusive relationship with your imagination?
And your dishonest, delusional defence of a flat Earth?
Because they show massive inconsistencies with what you say.

Fictional and imaginary are two different things.

Are they though?
Are fictional beings imaginary?
Are imaginary beings fictional?

Here is a definition of fiction:
"literature in the form of prose that describes imaginary events and people."
If a being is fictional, it is imaginary.
Another option:
"something that is invented or untrue."

Fiction and imaginary are quite synonymous.
And they are literally synonyms.

You don't doubt that Voldemort exists as part of that book, and you are apathetic to him outside it. That's not what's happening here.

The distinction is that there are not a bunch of people going around telling people Voldemort is real and good and you will burn in hell if you don't worship him and beg for forgiveness for being human; with these people further using Voldemort to justify their own hatred of others and try to deprive them of their rights.
Again, your imaginary god existing isn't why people oppose religion, it is that religion existing and causing so much harm.

Everywhere "atheists" exist, they rant and rave about how bad it is that God does things.

Have you noticed that I have only done so in direct response to people like you spouting delusional BS about their imaginary fiend?

Says the guy who tells me that cancer and mosquitoes must be created by God

No, I don't.
I say that if your god exists and created this world, they were.
That according to your fantasy, they were.

I am not saying they must have been.

Conversely, you are saying people helping you, actual people, is really god helping you.
You do this as an attempt to prove God exists and prove God is good.

I'm not being contradictory.

You are being contradictory, you credit good things to God to pretend God is good, while trying to assign the blame for all bad things to man or something else other than god.
That is a contradiction.
If you want to be consistent you either credit/blame God for both, or credit/blame God for neither, or take that which is caused by a direct wilful action of a sentient being (such as a human helping you) as from them, while things not covered by that, such as natural disasters, and the general of a this allegedly all powerful all loving god allowing so much suffering get blamed on God.

Atheists don't credit or blame god for either.
But they can still point out the incredibly dishonesty of theists like you, being completely inconsistent.

You have never stopped being contradictory

Yet like always you just lie and can't justify your lie at all.
Instead, you just spout more lies.

1. Hating on someone who is not only fictional but according to you nonexistent or imaginary.

Objecting to your dishonest, delusional BS is not "hating on" your imaginary fiend.
There is nothing contradictory or inconsistent about that.

2. Telling me you don't hate God when you actually use the words "evil"," tyrant ", and "POS."

Just like I don't hate Voldemort, but can call it evil, tyrant, or describe it as a POS.
There is nothing contradictory or inconsistent about that.

3. Telling me that I am contradicting myself for believing everything bad comes from humans and everything good comes from God, then all too obviously having the exact opposite position.

Except I'm not having the exact opposite position.
I don't think your imaginary fiend is responsible for either, as it doesn't exist so can't be.
I am pointing your hypocrisy, your contradictions, and showing that this world is not compatible with the existence of a loving, all powerful god.

5. But you also don't allow for the belief that goodness can happen through humans.

No, I point out the dishonesty of pretending your god exists and is good, because other humans have done good things.

I never said humans weren't capable of goodness

No, you just falsely attribute it to your imaginary fiend, while refusing to attribute any evil humans do to it.

God as I know him is a being where our definitions of good and evil don't even apply.

Which is just a pathetic cop out to avoid admitting your god is evil.
But that doesn't stop you from pretending your god is good. Yet another contradiction from you.

Only humans do evil, because humans actively decide to react to good or evil.

And in your fantasy, does your god react to good or evil?
If so, that means your god can do evil.

Everything bad comes from humans because they have perceptions, reactions, and attitudes.

And if humans come from God, and you want to say good that humans do come from God, that means that evil comes from God.
And if you are saying that your god created this universe, with all the suffering, then because of that, there is plenty of evil that doesn't come from humans.
And even without a god, nature can still cause bad things, it just lacks the intent so can't be evil.

The only way in which all evil can be blamed on man, is if you take god out of the equation entirely, i.e. you stop pretending it exists, you stop pretending it created the universe and has control over it.
Instead, that is just mindless nature, so anything bad which happens as a result of nature, such as diseases or natural disasters, is just bad, without any evil intent.

Think about mosquitoes. Now, you label them as evil, and proof that God is evil. But mosquitoes can be made to spread anything carried by the blood (including antibodies). There are actual benefits of mosquitoes.

I didn't.
That was your mischaracterisation of my position.
Instead, I pointed to malaria (not mosquitos), to show that this world is incompatible with a loving, all powerful god.

Instead of honestly focusing on malaria, you dishonestly chose to focus on the mosquitos.
Even now you are doing this to claim mosquitos can have benefits.
But you claimed a benefit that your reference doesn't even have.
You claim it transports antibodies, but what are they for? Fighting off diseases, things a loving god wouldn't have made or allow to exist.
The reference you cite is quite poor for actual benefits of these blood suckers.
2 of the points are the same, as food. Of which there are plenty of other sources, not just mosquitoes.
Likewise, one is about making compost, of which they aren't needed at all.
One is about the industry trying to eradicate them, which is not a benefit.
2 then appeal to species of mosquitoes that aren't blood suckers, which in no demonstrates a benefit of mosquitos themselves.

The only actual benefit listed is one which only makes sense if you don't believe in a loving, all powerful god, that of studying their anatomy for the purpose of desigining a painless needle and anti-clotting medication. These wouldn't be needed if a loving god existed.

But now that I have dealt with your dishonest deflection how about focusing on what I actually said?
What are the benefits of malaria?

While we are at it, what about other diseases?
What are the benefits of HIV?
What are the benefits of cancer?
What are the benefits of COVID?
What are the benefits or herpes?

Even cancer cells have an important benefit to medicine in field of regeneration and stem cells

You mean another thing we wouldn't need if a loving, all powerful god existed?

Good exists, and God is Good.

Firstly, pure BS.
As already shown, the god of the Bible is evil. There is no doubt about that.
And as also already shown, this world is fundamentally incompatible with all powerful, loving God.
So you can't have all three.
Either your god doesn't exist, it isn't good, or it isn't all powerful, i.e. it doesn't control this universe.

But more importantly, there you go contradicting yourself yet again.

Again, if you want to say good and evil only apply to us, and not your evil POS, then stop calling your evil POS good.
It is not good. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

Goodness (capital)

Is a pathetic deflection.

If it seems like I change my position, it's because I'm trying to get you to understand.

No, it isn't.
It is because you are desperate for your delusional BS to be true, so you will happily spout any BS you think could help with that, even if it directly contradicts your previous BS.
This is because you don't give a damn about the truth at all.
Just like in your pathetic lies about the RE model, where you happily contradict yourself to say whatever BS you can think of to pretend the model must be wrong, without any concern for what you have previously said.
All you care about is pretending your BS is true.

You've contradicted yourself about three to five times just in the last post.

Yet you cannot demonstrate a single instance where I have and instead just need to repeatedly lie and ignore the refutation of those lies.

I have been entirely consistent.
1 - There is absolutely no honest reason to think a god exists. There is no evidence for the existence of a god, especially considering all the problems dishonest theists claim it solves, it suffers from. i.e. a god solves nothing, it just pushes the problem back.
2 - The fictional character known as "God" in the Bible is evil. Its actions demonstrate that it is a childish evil tyrant. It is not a good being. It is not a loving being. It is an evil tyrant, and evil POS.
3 - This universe, with all the unneeded suffering is fundamentally incompatible with a loving, all powerful god. So either gods don't exist, they are not all powerful, or they are not loving. In this sense, the god of the deist makes far more sense, as this god is apathetic. It doesn't care about us, it leaves the universe to itself. It would be akin to scientists creating a virtual universe to see how it progresses, without interfering. Likewise, the religions which have pantheons, of multiple gods which will sometimes fight with each other makes much more sense than a monotheistic religion of a loving god. With these pantheons, the gods are not all powerful. If Hades wants to screw around with the world, Zeus can't just magically stop him. Likewise, if Loki wants to play a game, Odin can't just magically stop him.
4 - If this universe was created and controlled by an all powerful being, then it is responsible for all suffering in this universe. This makes it evil, and no amount of good will undo that. Notice how I don't need to focus on good actions being done? The suffering is what makes it evil. Appealing to acts of good to ignore all this suffering is like saying "Well Hitler helped an old lady cross the street, so Hitler must be good". The minor good acts do not stop the massive amounts of suffering, suffering it could easily stop yet does nothing about or actively causes.
5 - You are in an abusive relationship with your imagination, giving it credit for every good thing which happens to try to prove it exists and prove it is good; while assigning the blame to anything bad to something else.

Again, there is no contradiction here.
I do not need to believe your god exists to say those things.

You are a walking mass of contradictions.

Maybe one day you'll realize that more you pretend to be perfect, the more silly you look.
Being honest about one's failings is the only way not to contradict yourself.

But then, I don't expect to see it. People like you like to swarm public fields, people too fixated on image, who see others admitting their faults (usually Christians, but some Taoists and Jews do this too) as some sort of weakness. No, it's self-awareness. Narcissism is not a trait that does anything for me.

There is not one of us perfect, not one. So why pretend so much?

No, there are plenty of contradictions. I've already addressed them, and you've probably made more with your latest post. Which I haven't bothered reading most of, because it looks like excuses that Columbo suspects would use.

You are a walking mass of contradictions.

Maybe one day you'll realize that more you pretend to be perfect, the more silly you look.
Being honest about one's failings is the only way not to contradict yourself.

Yet here you are, still lying to everyone and refusing to be honest about your failings.
When you are repeatedly refuted, you just flee and bring up the same refuted BS again later.
Even now you cling to the BS idea that I have contradicted myself, merely for recognising a fictional character is evil when I don't believe that fiction character exists.

There is not one of us perfect, not one. So why pretend so much?

I'm not.
Yet again, you can't refute what I said, so you just lie.

No, there are plenty of contradictions.

Yet you can't demonstrate a single one on my part.
Instead you just keep repeating the same pathetic BS.

I have explained why your claims are BS, why I'm not contradicting myself.
I have also explained why you are.

I'm not.

Oh, I almost was gonna praise you for being honest for once.

But you were saying "I'm not" to the accusation of pretending.

12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? 13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man. 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

19And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.”

You have only to say one honest thing, that you aren't perfect, to admit that your life has contradictions. This is part of being human. My life has contradictions, so does my dad, so does the Pope, or the president, or the head of the UN. People out of touch with this simple fact aren't able to be honest about anything. You have to be honest about yourself with yourself, even if nothing else you say is right.

But you can't bring yourself to do something as simple as this.

And so, just as Jesus said, you are already condemned. I shall now hand out your epithet. You are a poser. You are so worried what other people might think of you that you cannot be bothered to tell one true thing about yourself.

Yet again, you can't refute what I said, so you just lie.

I named five things wrong with your ideas.

1. Hating on someone who is not only fictional but according to you nonexistent or imaginary.
2. Telling me you don't hate God when you actually use the words "evil"," tyrant ", and "POS."
3. Telling me that I am contradicting myself for believing everything bad comes from humans and everything good comes from God, then all too obviously having the exact opposite position.
4. Yes that's right, you tell me "who created cancer or who created mosquitoes" despite your first position that God is supposed not to exist.
5. But you also don't allow for the belief that goodness can happen through humans. I never said humans weren't capable of goodness, only that God as I know him is a being where our definitions of good and evil don't even apply. Only humans do evil, because humans actively decide to react to good or evil.

Everything you just said here was self-contradictory. The fact that it is, is the refutation, in the same way that a witness on court saying the victim dodged left when the door is on the opposite side of the room calls into question their argument. When there isn't any internal consistency about what you say, and you can't even say "my bad, I guess I was just mixed up" when caught in a contradiction means nothing you say can be taken seriously.

I found not one, not two, but ten good points about mosquitoes. If we are to blame God (who you say doesn't exist, between calling him a POS) for mosquitoes killing people for malaria, but when I say they have good points, I'm sure you're all like "Oh no, God can't be responsible for that, he doesn't exist."

Even a tiny bit of honesty not only makes me respect your more, but increases your credibility.

Oh, I almost was gonna praise you for being honest for once.

Why would you do that when that would require you to admit to be dishonest this whole time?

Are you going to try being honest for once?
Who am I kidding. Of course you wont, you are far too attached to your fantasy.

But you were saying "I'm not" to the accusation of pretending.

Your FALSE accusations. That shouldn't be surprising.

You have only to say one honest thing, that you aren't perfect

I have never claimed to be perfect.
Yet that doesn't stop you being incredibly dishonest and implying I have.

What I have said is that your lies about these alleged contradictions are just that, lies.

And so, just as Jesus said, you are already condemned.

Condemned for not worshipping your evil POS?
Hitler said the Jews were condemned. Does that mean the Jews should have begged for forgiveness and everyone should have let him kill them all?

I shall now hand out your epithet.

You mean you will continue to flee from the refutation of your BS and throw out more pathetic insults.

I named five things wrong with your ideas.

No, you have listed 5 lies.
I have explained the fault with each of them.
You then proceeded to ignore that.
Repeating them here will not help you.
Go to the previous post where I refuted each one and defend your lies.

I pointed out the fault with each of your lies, and what was your response:

No, there are plenty of contradictions. I've already addressed them, and you've probably made more with your latest post. Which I haven't bothered reading most of, because it looks like excuses that Columbo suspects would use.

Just more lies and pathetic dismissal.

You can happily lie making your pathetic claims repeatedly, but you can't defend them. Once they are refuted, you either just repeat the same lies or you flee.
Because that is the kind of dishonest person you are.

Everything you just said here was self-contradictory.

YOU said those things, not me.
As already explained, I have refuted each of those lies.
You ignored that refutation.
So you are still yet to point out any contradiction.

When there isn't any internal consistency

Yet what I have said remains consistent.
Conversely, what you say is not consistent.

you can't even say "my bad, I guess I was just mixed up" when caught in a contradiction means nothing you say can be taken seriously.

But that is not the case.
You are trying to get me to lie to say I contradicted myself when I didn't.

I found not one, not two, but ten good points about mosquitoes.

And I explained why for the most part they are BS, and the only actual advantages for blood sucking mosquitoes are ones which wouldn't be needed if a loving god existed.
I also pointed out how you dishonestly ignored what I actually said about malaria and instead chose to focus on the mosquitoes.

If we are to blame God (who you say doesn't exist, between calling him a POS) for mosquitoes killing people for malaria, but when I say they have good points, I'm sure you're all like "Oh no, God can't be responsible for that, he doesn't exist."

Again, I'm not blaming god for this.
I am pointing the contradiction in your fantasy.
If you want to give God credit for the good which happens in this world, even when you cannot show any action from God causing it; then that means it is also responsible for all the bad. And all that bad far outweighs the good, making your god evil; making any omnipotent god that exists evil at worst, apathetic at best.

Again, appealing to that good is like saying Hitler helped an old lady cross the street so he is good, even with all the evil he committed or caused.

You are trying to ignore all that bad, or place the blame for it on humans or things other than your god, and then using those same humans you say are responsible for evil, or that same nature you wont blame god for to pretend God is good.

That is a massive contradiction on your part.

And yet you even contradict that by saying your god causes evil/suffering.
You try to avoid that by saying good and evil only apply to humans, not God; yet the reason you give would allow it to apply to a god; and then still try claiming God is good.

Even a tiny bit of honesty not only makes me respect your more, but increases your credibility.

Which is why you have no credibility at all, and no one should respect you. Because you continue to lie with every post you make.

5 lies? No, these are five things you told on yourself.

I could probably even tell you my failings. It doesn't bother in the least.

 But you yourself created these contradictions. They were based on your own statements.

You tell me my God is nonexistent. Then you tell me he's a POS, tyrannical, and evil. I can find exact quotes of these statements peppered throughout your posts. Then I say that you hate God, as this is the truth of anyone who calls God stuff like this. You can't even be honest about that. You claim you don't hate God while you continue simultaneously telling me God doesn't exist and he's awful. Then you tell me that I'm contradicting myself by saying God is good (even though I also said he is responsible for evil, citing Isaiah 45:7 and other passages) but humans are evil. Okay but when I turn that statement around, you are guilty of the exact same thing! And more egregiously, while I'll admit this is a way that I think (I clarify it as evil being the result of turning from God, but yes), you just called what amounts to your own statements five lies.

And I explained why for the most part they are BS, and the only actual advantages for blood sucking mosquitoes are ones which wouldn't be needed if a loving god existed.

Except that this is isn't some fundie website trying to defend God's creation of insects. It's one of those scientific journal things that you love so much until what it says is inconvenient. Because that would admit that you are trying hard to do the opposite (hate God and say things created by God have to be evil), you have to rule this out as bullshit.

Are you capable of any honesty?

5 lies? No, these are five things you told on yourself.

No, they are 5 lies you constructed for yourself.
5 lies that were refuted.
With you unable to deal with the refutation.

I could probably even tell you my failings. It doesn't bother in the least.

You mean you will say some to avoid the bigger ones.

But you yourself created these contradictions.

No, I didn't.
You created them in your mind. You cannot show an actual contradiction.

Again, all have been refuted.

You tell me my God is nonexistent. Then you tell me he's a POS, tyrannical, and evil.

In the exact same way I can say Voldemort doesn't exist, yet still tell you it is a tyrannical evil POS.
Just like I can say those things about Voldemort without hating it.
Again, THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION HERE!!!

But because you can't refute what I have actually said, you just resort to these pathetic lies.

Then you tell me that I'm contradicting myself by saying God is good (even though I also said he is responsible for evil

And there you go contradicting yourself yet again.
If your god was good, it wouldn't be creating evil, it wouldn't be responsible for evil.
Notice how this is a direct contradiction?

Okay but when I turn that statement around, you are guilty of the exact same thing!

No, I'm not.
There are 2 fundamental distinctions.
First, I'm not using actions of reality to say your god is evil. I'm using it to show your hypocrisy and that this universe is incompatible with a loving, all powerful god.
But more importantly, a good being wouldn't do evil unless that was a necessary evil to achieve a greater good, which does not apply to an omnipotent being; but an evil being can still do good.
Again, what you are doing is like saying Hitler helped an old lady cross the street so he must be good.

And more egregiously, while I'll admit this is a way that I think

Yet you don't admit you directly contradict yourself, nor that you are in an abusive relationship with your imagination, nor that your god is evil.

you just called what amounts to your own statements five lies.

No, they are not my own statements. They are your lies about what I said.
Big difference.

Except that this is isn't some fundie website trying to defend God's creation of insects.

And there is the big difference.
It doesn't say they were made by a god.
They are not saying they are benefits for why a god created it.
Instead, they are appealing to benefits for a godless universe, where we don't have a loving, all powerful creator that cares about us.

That just further shows it is entirely useless to your argument.
Again, the only benefit of the blood sucking mosquitoes are in fields like medicine which wouldn't be needed if a loving, all powerful god existed.
And that still isn't providing a benefit for MALARIA, which I actually brought up.

Are you capable of any honesty?

Yes. I have been honest throughout.
Are you capable of any honesty?
Are you going to honestly respond to what I said, or will you continue to ignore it to repeat the same pathetic lies?

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on February 08, 2024, 03:14:08 PM

Quote from: Apple Scruff on February 08, 2024, 02:16:53 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on February 08, 2024, 01:26:54 PM

Quote from: Apple Scruff on February 08, 2024, 04:00:23 AM

I don't but this guy does.

There is absolutely no evidence of any dome, nor any water above it.

And rockets have been able to launch just fine into space without hitting any dome.

So there's no evidence of a dome/firmament ? Well in God's world there's plenty.

And as for your rocket launches, take a look at this;



Not exactly going up straight is it ?

What?  Something debated and explained by several people?

One.  The rocket didn’t hit any physical object.

Two.  The arc to place something or itself into orbit in space around the earth.  Care to provide the launch date and the mission?  What is the vehicle and context of the image?

Three.  This was provided by stash for a poster that wanted a rocket that went straight up into space.  This fulfills that requirement

Quote

UNCUT: Loading, launching and landing of Blue Origin space flight

Four.  Why is the firmament being brought up in this thread.  I can demonstrate spherical earth and space.  But why can’t there be a spherical earth with a “dome”?  If you want to think outside the “box”?  A dome doesn’t prove FE.

Sorry - But your video proves nothing but this does.

GoFast - Rocket hits the sky firmament

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo-yo_de-spin

you can see it falling off moments after supposed impact. People messaged person who launched rocked and he confirmed it.

AWESOME EXPOSE MARTIN & SANTOS....EXCELLENCE AT ITS FINEST

In response to BB's faith post;

 
Faith is the abdication of responsibility to a higher force that, other than some dusty books, there is no evidence for.

Some years ago, I worked for an environmental group in Leicester, a very multi-cultural city.
We ran an initiative called “Faith in Nature.” An attempt to further environmental issues through whatever deity/s people had faith in, they/it being the originators of the beauty of nature.

We had a very mixed response, the Catholics and Muslim leaders we met were of the opinion that yes god had put beauty in our hands but there was little to do as it was all in the plan, the Buddhists too thought we were going about this in the wrong way, become a Buddhist, learn the way and all would be okay.

The Jains, that predate Christianity by about a 1,000 years and are a trans-theistic religion and believe to harm any life is a sin, agreed that a nature area for the contemplation of beauty in a city was a good idea, so did the Sikhs who when we turned up to transform a waste area behind one of their gurdwaras  provided us with one of the best vegetarian buffets I have ever tasted.

The Church of England gave us a wild area of an old church to transform, but obviously didn’t tell the grounds keeper as I checked it a month later and it had been mown down to the roots.
I didn’t have anything to do with the Hindu’s so I can’t comment.

But the overriding vibe was that (insert divine being) would sort this out, all we needed to do was have faith, well after 1,000’s of years of faith the Earth is dying and none of these myths have turned up, when is blind faith indistinguishable from burying ones head in the sand?

Faith is the abdication of responsibility to a higher force that,

Being called to love your neighbor as yourself, being called to be a good steward, being called to care for the poor, sick, and hungry is abdicating responsibility?

20The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” 21Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

https://biblehub.com/esv/matthew/19.htm

I dint think Jesus wants people to be destitute.  But Jesus called out the young man for putting all his eggs and care into riches and following the law with no compassion.  No concern for his neighbors. 

It’s a strange thought I’ve had at four way stops of late.  Even serial killers for the most part take their turn at four way stops like the rest of us. 

Anyway.

Example. If the world economy crashes, I still have my God and my Church Family.  Those that trust in only themselves, wealth, and have friendships based on their wealth will have what? 




Faith isn’t about getting out of work or getting out of serving.  It’s about having more faith in spiritual maters than wealth.




This is directed at capable individuals.

Warning Against Idleness

6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching[a] you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. 13 And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Thessalonians%203&version=NIV

How much of our society is sick from idleness and wanting to live like rockstars off the dole? 

My ex didn’t want to work.  We got divorced.  They got their disability/social security.  Now they make and sale crafts at craft fairs and hide the income. 

I’ve been in bars where people bragged about getting their EBT cards.

The new American dream.  Sit and drink all day while on the dole and bragging about it.

I’ve made a few people mad when they state there is more to life than work.  My reply is you need to provide for yourself and your family.

I’m blessed and thankful that I strive for spiritual happiness over wealth happiness.  Doesn’t mean I don’t struggle with issues.  And I still need to provide for my kid and myself.  And need to help out the community with actual sweat.  But faith gives me strength, endurance, and focus. 


But.  Ultimately it’s to each individual and their freewill.  But remember, even serial killer obey traffic laws like the rest of us.  Whatever that means. 

But the overriding vibe was that (insert divine being) would sort this out, all we needed to do was have faith, well after 1,000’s of years of faith the Earth is dying and none of these myths have turned up, when is blind faith indistinguishable from burying ones head in the sand?

King James Bible
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water,…

Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II on June 24, 2024, 03:38:40 AM

But the overriding vibe was that (insert divine being) would sort this out, all we needed to do was have faith, well after 1,000’s of years of faith the Earth is dying and none of these myths have turned up, when is blind faith indistinguishable from burying ones head in the sand?

King James Bible
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water,…

The Bible used poetry and figurative speech throughout its entirety.

I think it’s just an over simplification of the “ocean” of spinning material in the void of space that formed our solar system.

I don’t care if you believe in God, Nature, or creation.  All evidence points to the heliocentric model and there is no physical dome around earth.  Just atmosphere giving way to the expanse of space.

  All evidence points to the heliocentric model and there is no physical dome around earth.  Just atmosphere giving way to the expanse of space.

So what separates us from the vacuum of space ?