Observations strongly disagree with FE model

Why argue abstarct cincepts kike frimamnet and gravity?


Circles!
Whats the angle between segments of a 250,000sided polygon?


Helloooo??

Why argue abstarct cincepts kike frimamnet and gravity?

Circles!
Whats the angle between segments of a 250,000sided polygon?

Helloooo??

'turbonium2' has always been good at one thing, avoiding ever answering a direct question.

Oh yeah, and making claims without backing them up but saying they did.  Always the same old one trick pony here.

Quote from: Stash on June 04, 2022, 01:43:23 AM

Quote from: turbonium2 on June 04, 2022, 12:47:05 AM

We all know what level flight is, by throwing around paper airplanes. They fly best when thrown out level, which is a flat, straight path in air. Level is the path of least air resistance, in normal conditions.

Actually, you are wrong yet again. The world record for a paper airplane distance was just broken 2 weeks ago. As you can see from the record breaking toss, the fellow threw in an upwards motion at quite an angle. By no means level to the gym floor. Do try and make accurate statements instead of false one.

That's from more force acting on the paper plane, not because an upward path in air has less resistance than a level path does. Real planes don't fly upward through their flights, do they? No, they fly level paths in air, because it's the most efficient path to fly in air.

But if want to argue that planes should fly in upward paths, instead of level paths, then please go right ahead.... I can't wait to hear about it....

You said, "They fly best when thrown out level"

As evidenced, the best (world record holder) was NOT "thrown out level". So yes, you are wrong yet again.

Do try and make accurate statements instead of false ones.

Sooomeone didnt take grd 9 physics basic motion.

Or play baseball
Or football




Or thrown a paper airplane....

Quote from: Stash on June 03, 2022, 04:18:05 PM

Quote from: turbonium2 on June 03, 2022, 03:04:03 PM

I prefer actual evidence, and if there isn't any, I don't believe it. There's the difference between you and I, in a nutshell.

Where's your "actual evidence" for a dome? I see you don't have any. Therefore, according to your statement, you don't believe there is a dome because there isn't any evidence. Got it.

 There's the difference between you and I, in a nutshell.

It's the same as David Copperfield when he made the Statue of Liberty appear to vanish out of existence, except you didn't know he was an illusionist doing a trick.

And if I asked to see what is behind him, see it from other angles, and places, you'd say I don't have any evidence it's a fake, because I'm not allowed to see behind the curtain, from all viewpoints, same as your 'rockets' aren't allowed to be seen anywhere else, when they vanish from all sight, after the first 3-4 minutes!

Worst of all, your only excuse is that rockets veer off like that, to gain enough 'speed' for 'orbit' around Earth, to reach 'space', etc...

But other rockets have flown straight up the whole flight, and it's been filmed from the ground, just like all the others have been filmed from ground, when veering off out of all view, and they ALWAYS show these videos, until the rockets fly out of view.

They've never shown us the videos from ground of rockets going straight up until out of view, for some reason. Any idea?

The GoFast rocket was filmed from the ground, and from the rocket. They cut off the video from the ground, while it was in full view. So why don't you explain why they would cut the video off?

It’s already been explained that the restricted zones are for safety reasons.

You have been shown videos from the other side of the restricted zone. Why aren’t they good enough?

The cut it off when it was already a tiny spec.

Why don't you explain why they should just show the rocket continuing to go up showing basically nothing?
Again, no one is required to provide you with the exact evidence you demand, especially as you would almost certainly dismiss it as fake.
Go film it yourself.

Nobody has ever told us where to SEE them launch up, so please explain why you think I just need to go out and "film it" myself, when nobody has ever TOLD US WHERE TO SEE THEM LAUNCH?   

Oh, I'm sorry, they've told us where to see them launch nearly ALL THE TIME....whenever the rocket VEERS OFF OVER THE OCEAN, out of all view! Of course, they've never let us see them BEYOND THAT POINT, since an area 100 miles wide and 300 miles long beyond the coast will always be off limits to all of us, since they say it's 'too dangerous', within those vast areas of the ocean! If you simply use your own common sense, about their claim it's done for our 'safety', or the other excuse, that it would interfere with their 'recovery of debris', although they already KNOW where the debris will drop, within a specific distance, so claiming they must restrict such vast regions like that, for rockets they ALWAYS HAVE CLAIMED to be tracked, knowing the EXACT POINTS over Earth, where they eject booster engines, etc., and they account for external factors like winds, to adjust where it drops down, and so forth.

When you keep claiming they track rockets from start to finish, and when they 'predict' a rocket, or the ISS, or whatever, will 'appear' to us, when flying an 'orbit', around the ball Earth, it shall be seen over parts of Michigan, and Illinois, next Tuesday night, at these specific local limes, if weather permits.

And sure enough, there's always a light which appears in the dark skies, at the exact time, exact place, they SAY it will!   

But of course, you see it as 'proof' of being true, right?

Why would you ever consider that they hadn't ONCE told us where any rocket or satellite will 'appear' above, say, above a certain area of Arizona, at 10:14 pm local time, and will move over northern Nevada around 11:06 pm local time, and then a LIGHT appears in the dark skies, at the exact time and location they said a 'rocket' or 'ISS' would appear whilst in 'orbit'?

When you're already so convinced of it being true, you'd surely see this as CONFIRMATION of your claims being true. It's one of them, your side holds up as 'proof', as 'confirmation of it as true', that's why I brought it up, here.

What they DIDN'T say, for the first 40-50 years, WOULD HAVE BEEN SAID, to even CONSIDER it might be genuine, to START with.

After claiming rockets have always been tracked, to the moon, and back, everything known about them, you must realize that they'd have told us where they'd 'appear' in the sky, all along, don't you?

Not over 40-50 years later, it looks, and is, completely ridiculous.

Consistency is an important factor in being authentic, and genuine, or being fake, and trickery.


These 'lights' never 'appeared' until recently, a few years ago. Before that, they came up with a few so-called 'images', and that was about it.

Use common sense, that's all it takes to see it's just more BS.

Use common sense, that's all it takes to see it's just more BS.

Remember, you stated, "I prefer actual evidence, and if there isn't any, I don't believe it."

There's no actual evidence for a dome. Therefore, according to your own words, without actual evidence, you don't believe there is a dome. Unless you were lying when you made that statement.

Use common sense, that's all it takes to see your dome is BS. As well as all your other contrivances - You have no actual evidence - So according to you, no actual evidence = BS, right? (See your statement above)

Quote from: JackBlack on June 04, 2022, 03:21:50 AM

The cut it off when it was already a tiny spec.

Why don't you explain why they should just show the rocket continuing to go up showing basically nothing?
Again, no one is required to provide you with the exact evidence you demand, especially as you would almost certainly dismiss it as fake.
Go film it yourself.

Nobody has ever told us where to SEE them launch up, so please explain why you think I just need to go out and "film it" myself, when nobody has ever TOLD US WHERE TO SEE THEM LAUNCH?   

Oh, I'm sorry, they've told us where to see them launch nearly ALL THE TIME....whenever the rocket VEERS OFF OVER THE OCEAN, out of all view! Of course, they've never let us see them BEYOND THAT POINT, since an area 100 miles wide and 300 miles long beyond the coast will always be off limits to all of us, since they say it's 'too dangerous', within those vast areas of the ocean! If you simply use your own common sense, about their claim it's done for our 'safety', or the other excuse, that it would interfere with their 'recovery of debris', although they already KNOW where the debris will drop, within a specific distance, so claiming they must restrict such vast regions like that, for rockets they ALWAYS HAVE CLAIMED to be tracked, knowing the EXACT POINTS over Earth, where they eject booster engines, etc., and they account for external factors like winds, to adjust where it drops down, and so forth.

When you keep claiming they track rockets from start to finish, and when they 'predict' a rocket, or the ISS, or whatever, will 'appear' to us, when flying an 'orbit', around the ball Earth, it shall be seen over parts of Michigan, and Illinois, next Tuesday night, at these specific local limes, if weather permits.

And sure enough, there's always a light which appears in the dark skies, at the exact time, exact place, they SAY it will!   

But of course, you see it as 'proof' of being true, right?

Why would you ever consider that they hadn't ONCE told us where any rocket or satellite will 'appear' above, say, above a certain area of Arizona, at 10:14 pm local time, and will move over northern Nevada around 11:06 pm local time, and then a LIGHT appears in the dark skies, at the exact time and location they said a 'rocket' or 'ISS' would appear whilst in 'orbit'?

When you're already so convinced of it being true, you'd surely see this as CONFIRMATION of your claims being true. It's one of them, your side holds up as 'proof', as 'confirmation of it as true', that's why I brought it up, here.

What they DIDN'T say, for the first 40-50 years, WOULD HAVE BEEN SAID, to even CONSIDER it might be genuine, to START with.

After claiming rockets have always been tracked, to the moon, and back, everything known about them, you must realize that they'd have told us where they'd 'appear' in the sky, all along, don't you?

Not over 40-50 years later, it looks, and is, completely ridiculous.

Consistency is an important factor in being authentic, and genuine, or being fake, and trickery.


These 'lights' never 'appeared' until recently, a few years ago. Before that, they came up with a few so-called 'images', and that was about it.

Use common sense, that's all it takes to see it's just more BS.

Ok you don’t like anything tainted with the touch of NASA.

How about looking out for the Chinese space station? Ok it’s a bit smaller than the ISS for now but it too can be clearly seen whizzing overhead with the naked eye.

How do you explain that?
How do you explain without resorting to plain denial that it can be seen while your dome can’t?

Again, care to explain how your magic dome magically makes the sun appear where it is observed?

Nobody has ever told us where to SEE them launch up

And you have been told why.
These vertical (sub orbital) launches are typically done by small amateur groups.
Find one, join it, and observe the launch yourself.

Otherwise, there is plenty of footage which already shows you are wrong.

Of course, they've never let us see them BEYOND THAT POINT

You have already had this exposed as a lie. Why repeat it?

since an area 100 miles wide and 300 miles long beyond the coast will always be off limits

Prove it.
You say you care about evidence but you continually spout pure garbage with no evidence or rational thought to back it up.

If you simply use your own common sense

You will realise that you are just spouting whatever BS you can to dismiss the reality of space flight.
Those with common sense realise that orbits require significant tangential velocity, meaning rockets should go sideways, rather than straight up, if they want to go to orbit.
Those with common sense realise that a large rocket ditching its booster without guidance will present a significant hazard to a large area.
Those with common sense realise that if something goes wrong during the launch, there will be a significant hazard to a large area.

It is only those who do not wish to use common sense, and instead want to use paranoia and delusions to pretend rockets don't go to space, that want to claim the BS you are doing.

We get it, you don't' want to accept it, so you will use whatever dishonest BS you can to try and dismiss it.
But those with common sense can see through your BS.

But of course, you see it as 'proof' of being true, right?

No, I see it as evidence. But that is often conflated with proof.
The large amount of evidence forms proof beyond any sane doubt.
Also note that it isn't always simply a light. The ISS is large enough to resolve with a pair of binoculars.

After claiming rockets have always been tracked, to the moon, and back, everything known about them, you must realize that they'd have told us where they'd 'appear' in the sky, all along, don't you?

No, because I'm not a paranoid delusional idiot.
Why should they tell you exactly where a rocket/satellite will appear for every possible location on Earth?
In the past, it would take quite a considerable time for them to get those numbers, only to have the vast majority of them being useless.
Even today, they don't "tell you" where it appears.
Instead there are sites, which use orbital data to allow you enter a location and calculate where it will appear for you.

These 'lights' never 'appeared' until recently, a few years ago.

And more insane BS offered with no evidence at all.
Care to prove these lights never appeared?

For someone who falsely claims to care about evidence, you sure assert loads of BS with no evidence to support it.

Use common sense, that's all it takes to see it's just more BS.

That is all that is required to see through your pathetic BS.

Just like they should see that all your BS about rockets is just a pathetic attempt from you to deflect from your complete inability to explain the observed position of the sun, something which refutes a FE and works wonderfully for a RE.

Nobody has ever told us where to SEE them launch up, so please explain why you think I just need to go out and "film it" myself, when nobody has ever TOLD US WHERE TO SEE THEM LAUNCH?   

Oh, I'm sorry, they've told us where to see them launch nearly ALL THE TIME....whenever the rocket VEERS OFF OVER THE OCEAN, out of all view! Of course, they've never let us see them BEYOND THAT POINT, since an area 100 miles wide and 300 miles long beyond the coast will always be off limits to all of us, since they say it's 'too dangerous', within those vast areas of the ocean!

Good lord, how many times will you have to have it explained to you that to get into orbit rockets HAVE to go AROUND the planet.  You keep acting like this is some kind of weird excuse to hide rockets but how the hell do expect to circle an object and not go out of view?  Your ignorance on this (every) subject is mind boggling.

And yet more lies out of you. You have been shown plenty of footage from people all over, and it's not at all illegal to go out into the ocean and film the rocket from outside the exclusion zone.  If you wanted you could park boats all around the world to do your filming.

Only idiots would think it's not at all dangerous to have huge crows of boats parked where several tons of red hot metal moving at high speed might land. That's why they even have to have laws like that.

Care to prove these lights never appeared?

For someone who falsely claims to care about evidence, you sure assert loads of BS with no evidence to support it.

Then show me that NASA told us where some rocket will soon 'appear', over northern parts of Idaho, or wherever, at 9:21 pm local time, next Monday night, or something like this, back then.

Go ahead, show me proof of that being done, or admit they didn't say s^^( about it for 40 years or more.

Quote from: JackBlack on June 06, 2022, 01:38:02 AM

Care to prove these lights never appeared?

For someone who falsely claims to care about evidence, you sure assert loads of BS with no evidence to support it.

Then show me that NASA told us where some rocket will soon 'appear', over northern parts of Idaho, or wherever, at 9:21 pm local time, next Monday night, or something like this, back then.

Go ahead, show me proof of that being done, or admit they didn't say s^^( about it for 40 years or more.

Actually, better would be to show us proof that there is a dome as you claim. Rocket launches occur every now and again all over the globe. However, a dome is there 365, and has been there since time began. That being the case, since the dome is ever-present, rockets are not, why not show us evidence of a dome that obviously predates rockets?

Go ahead, show me proof of a dome, or admit they didn't say s^^( about it for 4,000,000,000 years or more.

So, I went back through the Library of Congress archives.  People have been watching and tracking satellites for as long as there have been satellites.  Here is an article about Sputnik being seen by people back in 1957.

https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn84020662/1957-10-09/ed-1/seq-1/#date1=1777&index=7&rows=20&words=satellite+schedule&searchType=basic&sequence=0&state=&date2=1963&proxtext=satellite+schedule&y=0&x=0&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1

Quote from: JackBlack on June 06, 2022, 01:38:02 AM

Care to prove these lights never appeared?

For someone who falsely claims to care about evidence, you sure assert loads of BS with no evidence to support it.

Then show me that NASA told us where some rocket will soon 'appear', over northern parts of Idaho, or wherever, at 9:21 pm local time, next Monday night, or something like this, back then.

Go ahead, show me proof of that being done, or admit they didn't say s^^( about it for 40 years or more.

Wow, it's pretty easy to find this stuff.  Just more absolute lies from you yet again.
There is an app on my phone that shows satellite locations, I used to use it when I worked part time during the summers in college.  Before I went to college all i had to align a dish was a compass, an inclinometer and a basic undersyanding of LOS signals.  There is also a phone app with live tracking and video feeds, when they are broadcasted, looking down on Earth from the ISS.  I've watched a storm cell from above and below using it for fun when it happened to line up with my location.  There are always reports of a planned trajectory of many launches to be found, with the more famous ones like some of the SpaceX stuff being some I have personally seen.  You claiming things, sorry, lying about things, is just pathetic.

Quote from: JackBlack on June 06, 2022, 01:38:02 AM

Care to prove these lights never appeared?

For someone who falsely claims to care about evidence, you sure assert loads of BS with no evidence to support it.

Then show me that NASA told us where some rocket will soon 'appear', over northern parts of Idaho, or wherever, at 9:21 pm local time, next Monday night, or something like this, back then.

No, as that has nothing to do with your claim.
It was your claim that the lights didn't appear, you prove it.

Do you understand the difference between NASA saying the lights will appear, and the lights actually appearing?
NASA doesn't need to say they will appear for them to be visible.
I don't need to prove that NASA said they will appear in particular locations to dismiss your claim as insane paranoid BS.

Do you even bother reading where I said that it normally isn't NASA telling people where to look? Instead it is a website where you can put in your location to find out where to look?

If you want to claim that the lights magically only started appearing after NASA said they should appear in a location, then YOU PROVE IT!

Otherwise, you just asserting pure BS with no evidence at all.
Just like everything else you say.

Or, even better, quit with this childish, paranoid, delusional tangent and instead explain how your magic, invisible, undetectable dome of which there is absolutely no evidence to support its existence, magically causes the sun to appear in a location on a FE which matches with what one would expect for a RE without a magic dome?

Quote from: JackBlack on June 06, 2022, 01:38:02 AM

Care to prove these lights never appeared?

For someone who falsely claims to care about evidence, you sure assert loads of BS with no evidence to support it.

Then show me that NASA told us where some rocket will soon 'appear', over northern parts of Idaho, or wherever, at 9:21 pm local time, next Monday night, or something like this, back then.

Go ahead, show me proof of that being done, or admit they didn't say s^^( about it for 40 years or more.

Here https://in-the-sky.org/satpasses.php?year=2022&month=6&day=7
Also https://spotthestation.nasa.gov

Turbo, you've been shown multiple examples of videos filmed from beyond they exclusion zone.

No, as that has nothing to do with your claim.
It was your claim that the lights didn't appear, you prove it.

Do you understand the difference between NASA saying the lights will appear, and the lights actually appearing?
NASA doesn't need to say they will appear for them to be visible.
I don't need to prove that NASA said they will appear in particular locations to dismiss your claim as insane paranoid BS.

You HAVE no proof that NASA ever mentioned it, for over 40 years, because they DIDN'T say it.

They clearly would have said where rockets will appear from Earth, over a specific area, at a specific time, all along, NOT over 40-50 years later, if it WERE genuine, as you believe.

What possible reason would they say nothing for over 40 years, is that they couldn't FAKE it until now, obviously.

What possible reason would they say nothing for over 40 years, is that they couldn't FAKE it until now, obviously.

You ignoring evidence presented to you doesn't mean that evidence doesn't exist.  It just means you are remaining willfully ignorant at best, and at worst are deliberately ignoring what you are told and lying about not having been shown any.

Quote from: JackBlack on June 06, 2022, 02:50:54 PM

No, as that has nothing to do with your claim.
It was your claim that the lights didn't appear, you prove it.

Do you understand the difference between NASA saying the lights will appear, and the lights actually appearing?
NASA doesn't need to say they will appear for them to be visible.
I don't need to prove that NASA said they will appear in particular locations to dismiss your claim as insane paranoid BS.

You HAVE no proof that NASA ever mentioned it, for over 40 years, because they DIDN'T say it.

They clearly would have said where rockets will appear from Earth, over a specific area, at a specific time, all along, NOT over 40-50 years later, if it WERE genuine, as you believe.

What possible reason would they say nothing for over 40 years, is that they couldn't FAKE it until now, obviously.

WTF are you talking about? 

You HAVE no proof that NASA ever mentioned it

Stop with your pathetic attempts to shift the burden of proof.
I never claimed they mentioned it.
But you baselessly asserted that before NASA mentioned it no lights appeared.
So YOU PROVE that the lights didn't appear before NASA said.
Or admit your claim is baseless BS.

They clearly would have said where rockets will appear from Earth, over a specific area, at a specific time, all along, NOT over 40-50 years later

You have had it explained why that claim of yours is childish, ignorant, refuted BS.
Repeating the same ignorant BS wont magically make it true.
Instead it just further shows that you either have no idea what reality is, or you are willing to repeatedly lie to everyone.
Which is it?

What possible reason would they say nothing for over 40 years

Already explained:

In the past, it would take quite a considerable time for them to get those numbers, only to have the vast majority of them being useless.
Even today, they don't "tell you" where it appears.
Instead there are sites, which use orbital data to allow you enter a location and calculate where it will appear for you.

Now care to actually try responding to what has been said instead of repeating the same refuted claims?

Better yet, care to provide any evidence for your dome, or actually address the OP and explain how your magic dome makes the sun appear where it does?

In the past, it would take quite a considerable time for them to get those numbers, only to have the vast majority of them being useless.
Even today, they don't "tell you" where it appears.
Instead there are sites, which use orbital data to allow you enter a location and calculate where it will appear for you.

You've said they've tracked them precisely, start to finish, since day one, and now you're claiming they didn't track them everywhere, back then!!

You're trying to change your claims, to suit your argument..... no dice.

You've said they've tracked them precisely, start to finish, since day one, and now you're claiming they didn't track them everywhere, back then!!

No, yet again, you dishonestly misrepresent reality.

There is a significant difference between tracking where rockets are, so NASA knows where they are, and being able to tell you where you have to look from a particular patch of Earth to be able to see it.

So no, I'm not changing argument.
Instead, as you can't defend your BS, you are deflecting away from that inability of yours, and again trying to shift the burden of proof.

So far we have no evidence at all for your magical dome, and plenty of evidence to show your dome is garbage, with you offering nothing other than wilful rejection of the evidence simply because it doesn't agree with you.

Meanwhile, you are continuing to flee from the OP, the fact that the direction to the sun from locations on Earth match what is expected for a RE, not a FE.
You have baselessly asserted your magic dome magically fixes it, but provided no explanation as to HOW it magically fixes it, nor any evidence that it even exists.

Care to address that yet?

I've told you how this CAN be proven without any doubt, how proof was already shown on video, and soon removed from public view, how they have taken video from the ground, and cut if off soon afterwards, for no reason BUT what it would show us...

Just show rockets flying straight up, and let's see who's right, and who's full of BS, once and for all.

You're just making excuses for not doing it, and cutting off clips of it....so why would that be?

You aren't afraid of what it would SHOW, are you?

I've told you how this CAN be proven without any doubt, how proof was already shown on video, and soon removed from public view, how they have taken video from the ground, and cut if off soon afterwards, for no reason BUT what it would show us...

Apparently, you CAN'T prove anything without a doubt. Where's this video? What was in the video? Where's the proof of a dome?

I've told you how this CAN be proven without any doubt

Do you mean proof of your dome?
Because plenty of rockets have flown straight through, destroying any hope of it being real.

how proof was already shown on video, and soon removed from public view

You mean how you baselessly claimed proof was shown, but have been unable to provide it at all.
Guess what? The same kind of BS has been done before.
The very video I provided (well a cut of it) was dishonestly used by FEers to claim the rocket hit the dome.

Why should I expect your claimed footage to be any different?

how they have taken video from the ground, and cut if off soon afterwards, for no reason BUT what it would show us...

That it shows you basically nothing.

If you want it, get it yourself.
And there is absolutely no reason to think you would accept such footage.
You have already baselessly dismissed footage as fake simply because it shows you are wrong.

Just show rockets flying straight up, and let's see who's right, and who's full of BS, once and for all.

We already know who is full of BS. YOU!

You have repeatedly dismissed video footage which clearly shows you are wrong. Including uncut video footage.
But now you come and claim that video footage would prove you wrong, when it is clear that anything that shows you are wrong you will simply dismiss as fake.
Why should footage from the ground showing a rocket going straight up be any different?
You will dismiss it as fake or find some other pathetic excuse to ignore it.

But the real give away is how you still refuse to engage with the OP and explain how your magical dome magically makes the sun appear in a location for observers around Earth to match what is expected for a RE.

I've told you how this CAN be proven without any doubt, how proof was already shown on video, and soon removed from public view, how they have taken video from the ground, and cut if off soon afterwards, for no reason BUT what it would show us...

Considering you think stars are weird blobs of light because you saw a YouTube video about it, your testimony here is completely worthless as you will believe any garbage video you see.

But sure, expect people to throw out the entirety of reality based on your claiming you saw great proof which conveniently is gone now.