War

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wise

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Re: War
« Reply #3840 on: December 08, 2024, 10:52:16 PM »
I want to summarize the events in Syria from a Turkish perspective and from a closer distance than others.

The decision to overthrow Assad was made years ago, during the time when Israel attacked Lebanon, and when it supported Lebanon. Before taking action against Assad; Russia, Iran, and Turkey tried to persuade him to negotiate, but Assad used Turkey’s withdrawal from Syria as a precondition. This is unacceptable because the number of Syrians living in Turkey is comparable to the number of Syrians living in Syria, and Turkey’s influence over Syria was greater than Assad’s.

It seems certain that Russia has sold Assad in exchange for Ukraine. Moreover, due to the negative developments regarding Iran and Hezbollah, they also thought it wouldn't be worth fighting for..

The terrorist organization known as HTS (Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham) is a continuation of Al-Nusra and ISIS, and is listed as a terrorist organization by both the United States and Turkey. The leader of the terrorist group, named Golani, is on the U.S. list of most-wanted terrorists, with a $10 million reward on his head. CNN, a major American channel, conducted an interview with him, and this was generally accepted worldwide as normal.

The U.S. stated that it must maintain its military presence in eastern Syria due to the ISIS threat, but the reality is that the U.S. is the very one that created and supported ISIS. (Recall Trump’s statements). Currently, Trump’s foreign policy views are being applied, and according to them, the U.S. stays in the region to support another terrorist group in order to eliminate the threat posed by the terrorist group they themselves created.

Turkey does not want a Kurdish state in eastern Syria, but it doesn’t seem to strongly oppose Trump’s stance. The Syrian Free Army (supported by Turkey and considered moderate compared to HTS/Al-Qaeda) tried to enter the Kurdish region from the north and made some progress, but they cannot advance further due to the American presence. The initiative supporting the Kurdish groups comes from the U.S. Pentagon, while the CIA supports the formation known as the Syrian Free Army (ÖSO) along with Turkey.

The U.S. wanted to fight against the U.S., but the U.S. prevented this. I am very curious about what American taxpayers think about this situation. The number of Kurds in Turkey is comparable to the number of Syrians in Turkey, and Turkey belongs to the Turkish people.

The events have turned in favor of Israel, and we can see progress in the Golan Heights. Strangely, Erdogan and his media are wildly applauding these developments. I believe this is an attempt to smooth things over with Trump, as you may recall, Trump had previously sent a letter to Erdogan during his previous term, saying “don’t be a fool.”

I think the next target will be Turkey. The general expectation is that the next target will be Iran or Lebanon. I do not count Lebanon as a real country. Turkey will be targeted before Iran because if Iran is targeted and divided, the 20 million Turks in northern Iran will cause this region to be annexed by Turkey. This would make Turkey so strong that globalists would be unable to destroy it. Therefore, they will target Turkey first.

Currently, almost all commentators say that Iran is the target. I am one of the rare commentators who say the first target is Turkey. A development that supports my view is Trump’s strange comments about “we might leave NATO.” These were perceived as strange remarks that Trump sometimes makes, but in fact, they make a lot of sense. If the next target is Turkey, the U.S. cannot do this while being in the same alliance with Turkey.

Recently, Erdogan’s government has been trying to get closer to the PKK terrorist organization. They probably see what is about to happen. I do not think Trump and the globalists will care about this situation. If one of the targets is to divide Turkey as they did with Syria and Iraq, they will do it, and if necessary, Erdogan will be forcibly removed from power by these forces. I don’t think his politeness will help him in this regard.
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Rayzor

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Re: War
« Reply #3841 on: December 11, 2024, 12:15:19 AM »
Turkey should stop persecuting the Kurds.  But I can't imagine Turkey would be happy with an independant Kurdish state next door.


Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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wise

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Re: War
« Reply #3842 on: December 12, 2024, 05:29:24 AM »
Turkey should stop persecuting the Kurds.  But I can't imagine Turkey would be happy with an independant Kurdish state next door.

Turkey is not oppressing the Kurds. Kurds have equal rights with Turks throughout Turkey. In fact, in the past, even a Prime Minister had emerged from among them.

The issue is that the US is conducting provocative activities in this region to use the Kurds as a tool against Turkey.

If we look at the issue from a completely realistic perspective, Kurds live all over Turkey, and for them, living in cities like Izmir, Antalya, and Istanbul, which are inhabited by Turks, is like living in Norway or Canada for Turks. In cities like Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir, and Antalya, where Turks live in large numbers, the average income is five times higher than the average income of people living in the cities where Kurds reside. Their own cities are both in poverty and significantly behind in terms of social and cultural development. By settling in the western cities I mentioned, they get wealthier, marry Western girls, and live much more comfortably. Kurds living in the West never want to return. If you had told them that they would be granted autonomy and live in a different region, they would have migrated to the western cities to avoid staying in their underdeveloped regions before such a thing could even happen.

The terrorist organization and its political extension, the political party, were completely created and are supported by the US. Kurds and Turks have never been separate or hostile communities. Nevertheless, if the Kurds in Syria were to establish a state, the US would use its forces to support the separatist activities of terrorist organizations against Turkey. Therefore, Turkey will never allow such an entity to emerge. This opposition might require Turkey to occupy half of Syria. However, considering that the global powers did not react to Israel’s occupation of Syrian land up to 15 kilometers from Damascus, we can assume that they will not react to Turkey’s actions either.

I hope the US will not stay here any longer. I hope Trump will pull out of Syria as he promised, just like he withdrew from Afghanistan earlier. What kind of cruelty is it to want millions of people to die by sowing discord among them and benefiting slightly from their fighting? The US must stop doing this. Trump promised this, but we will all watch to see what he will do. Ah, I guess we won't be watching exactly.
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Lorddave

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Re: War
« Reply #3843 on: December 12, 2024, 05:49:20 AM »
So...Kurds are free and equal but they must not be allowed to have their own state?
You sound like Israel.
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wise

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Re: War
« Reply #3844 on: December 12, 2024, 06:54:48 AM »
Kurds are part of this society. Unlike in Israel, they have similar culture and religious beliefs to Turks. To compare this, the idea of ​​Mexicans, Africans, Germans and French living in America having separate states doesn't sound sincere to you, does it?
The Kurds did not have an agenda of having an independent state until they were encouraged by the Americans. Essentially, this has nothing to gain for them. If an independent Kurdish state were established, the Kurds would leave it first. Could you please stop these provocative American statements?

What is your problem with Israel, are you anti semitist?
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Lorddave

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Re: War
« Reply #3845 on: December 12, 2024, 08:00:52 AM »
Kurds are part of this society. Unlike in Israel, they have similar culture and religious beliefs to Turks. To compare this, the idea of ​​Mexicans, Africans, Germans and French living in America having separate states doesn't sound sincere to you, does it?
The Kurds did not have an agenda of having an independent state until they were encouraged by the Americans. Essentially, this has nothing to gain for them. If an independent Kurdish state were established, the Kurds would leave it first. Could you please stop these provocative American statements?

What is your problem with Israel, are you anti semitist?

They have separate countries so your analogy doesn't make sense.  Is there a Kurdish country? (I do not know if this exist or not)

Or are you saying the Kurds want a Kurdish state inside of Turkey?

As for my issue:
The Israelie government is run by people who are violently oppressive and agressive to everyone around them, mainly because they exist as a result of Europe and America forcing its existence instead of working with the Middle Eastern nations on a peaceful coexistence.  And Israel doesn't care about that.
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wise

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Re: War
« Reply #3846 on: December 13, 2024, 03:41:20 AM »
Kurds are part of this society. Unlike in Israel, they have similar culture and religious beliefs to Turks. To compare this, the idea of ​​Mexicans, Africans, Germans and French living in America having separate states doesn't sound sincere to you, does it?
The Kurds did not have an agenda of having an independent state until they were encouraged by the Americans. Essentially, this has nothing to gain for them. If an independent Kurdish state were established, the Kurds would leave it first. Could you please stop these provocative American statements?

What is your problem with Israel, are you anti semitist?

They have separate countries so your analogy doesn't make sense.  Is there a Kurdish country? (I do not know if this exist or not)

Or are you saying the Kurds want a Kurdish state inside of Turkey?

As for my issue:
The Israelie government is run by people who are violently oppressive and agressive to everyone around them, mainly because they exist as a result of Europe and America forcing its existence instead of working with the Middle Eastern nations on a peaceful coexistence.  And Israel doesn't care about that.
We can also give examples of groups like Native Americans who do not have a country. If the goal is to provide examples of stateless groups, we can mention more than 10 such groups in the United States. However, you are not using this as an example in good faith. Even if the Kurds do not want to have their own country, even if they do not need it, you are trying to provoke them into wanting this simply because you want to see us divided, and you want them to fall into this unnecessary fantasy.

Just because dogs want it doesn’t mean horses will die.

Kurdish people are one of the components of this region, and their separation is not in anyone's interest, especially themselves. This is also practically not so possible. They are neither accustomed to nor eager for such a thing. It’s just that the US is paying certain individuals among them to encourage separatism. Once this stops, when Trump decides to pull out of this region, everything will return to normal and you will all see that the Kurds do not have any thoughts of forming a separate state.
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Lorddave

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Re: War
« Reply #3847 on: December 13, 2024, 03:51:30 AM »
Kurds are part of this society. Unlike in Israel, they have similar culture and religious beliefs to Turks. To compare this, the idea of ​​Mexicans, Africans, Germans and French living in America having separate states doesn't sound sincere to you, does it?
The Kurds did not have an agenda of having an independent state until they were encouraged by the Americans. Essentially, this has nothing to gain for them. If an independent Kurdish state were established, the Kurds would leave it first. Could you please stop these provocative American statements?

What is your problem with Israel, are you anti semitist?

They have separate countries so your analogy doesn't make sense.  Is there a Kurdish country? (I do not know if this exist or not)

Or are you saying the Kurds want a Kurdish state inside of Turkey?

As for my issue:
The Israelie government is run by people who are violently oppressive and agressive to everyone around them, mainly because they exist as a result of Europe and America forcing its existence instead of working with the Middle Eastern nations on a peaceful coexistence.  And Israel doesn't care about that.
We can also give examples of groups like Native Americans who do not have a country. If the goal is to provide examples of stateless groups, we can mention more than 10 such groups in the United States. However, you are not using this as an example in good faith. Even if the Kurds do not want to have their own country, even if they do not need it, you are trying to provoke them into wanting this simply because you want to see us divided, and you want them to fall into this unnecessary fantasy.

Just because dogs want it doesn’t mean horses will die.

Kurdish people are one of the components of this region, and their separation is not in anyone's interest, especially themselves. This is also practically not so possible. They are neither accustomed to nor eager for such a thing. It’s just that the US is paying certain individuals among them to encourage separatism. Once this stops, when Trump decides to pull out of this region, everything will return to normal and you will all see that the Kurds do not have any thoughts of forming a separate state.
Native Americans had states until Americans took their land and forced them to live in a desert after death marching them across the country.

If Kurds are like native Americans, then they want their own country.
Also, Natives have tribal land, which is owned and run by them.  It is a state inside a state.

But you may be right, but your attitude is very telling that you think the idea of them having one is bad even if they did, genuinely, want one.


Trump will not pull out.  He will make a deal with the Kurds to give them part of Turkey and force Turkey to give up land. 
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Crouton

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Re: War
« Reply #3848 on: December 13, 2024, 08:26:28 AM »
Based on past performance I'd say Trump is very likely to sell out the Kurds.  It wouldn't be the first time and now it's completely legal for a foreign government to bribe the president.  For some reason Turkey is really into bribing our politicians.
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wise

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Re: War
« Reply #3849 on: December 16, 2024, 02:23:17 AM »
Türkiye does not accept the idea of ​​a separate state for the Kurds under any circumstances. The most logical situation here is for the Free Syrian Army (which is not HTS) to capture and liberate the regions captured by the PKK. Israel had previously stated that it chose the Kurds as allies. If one of the purposes of this attitude is a reaction to Erdoğan's hostile attitude, another is that it is perception management and this will not actually happen.

If we look at the actual situation, Türkiye in the north and Israel in the south have actually occupied some Syrian territory, and no one seems to have a problem with that. Considering that Turkey is a former ally of the USA and that Erdogan does not actually take any hostile stance, pretending to have problems with Israel, it can easily be seen that the Kurds were used here, deceived and that the overthrow of Assad was facilitated by promising them a state. I wouldn't be surprised if Turkey had knowledge and approval in these negotiations between USA and PKK.

I don't trust Trump. Nobody trusts Trump. Trump is not trustworthy at all.
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JimmyTheLobster

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Re: War
« Reply #3850 on: December 16, 2024, 04:14:20 AM »
Türkiye does not accept the idea of ​​a separate state for the Kurds under any circumstances.
We know, you fucking hate them.

Quote
The most logical situation here is for the Free Syrian Army (which is not HTS) to capture and liberate the regions captured by the PKK.
Ah great, more war.  I'm sure everyone in Syria is desperate for that.   ::)

Anyway, the FSA fell apart years ago - most of that rabble are under control by the new government.  The ones left are basically gangsters.  You guys sponsored the HTS, are you just disappointed they aren't genociding the Kurds yet?
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Crouton

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Re: War
« Reply #3851 on: December 16, 2024, 06:09:45 AM »
Maybe Jolani is too busy being concerned that Israel is carrying out a preemptive defensive annexation of Syria.
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JimmyTheLobster

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Re: War
« Reply #3852 on: December 16, 2024, 09:14:08 AM »
Syria should just be labelled "hot mess" on maps.
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FlatAssembler

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Re: War
« Reply #3853 on: December 16, 2024, 12:11:26 PM »
What do you think guys, why is it reasonable to believe that wars exist, when basic principles of social sciences suggest that they don't exist? If I remember correctly, Karl Popper explicitly admitted that wars are difficult to make compatible with the Principle of Rationality, and the Principle of Rationality is one of the basic principles of modern-day social sciences.
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JackBlack

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Re: War
« Reply #3854 on: December 16, 2024, 12:46:47 PM »
What do you think guys, why is it reasonable to believe that wars exist, when basic principles of social sciences suggest that they don't exist? If I remember correctly, Karl Popper explicitly admitted that wars are difficult to make compatible with the Principle of Rationality, and the Principle of Rationality is one of the basic principles of modern-day social sciences.
Because wars are trivial to observe, with countless wars happening or having happened in recent history.
If social science suggest they don't exist, then that just shows how ridiculous it is.

But it doesn't.
The principle of rationality is an ideal. Humans are not always rational and don't always have all the information.

In ancient history, wars were fought and won which led to the empire being better off. So the wars benefited them and was consistent with the principle of rationality.
In modern times, the question is who is driving the war and what benefit do they get?
Then did they make any assumptions based upon the limited information they had which turned out to be false?

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Username

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Re: War
« Reply #3855 on: December 16, 2024, 01:44:42 PM »
Honestly, I have to agree with Jack. As much as I love Popper, he wants to make everything about rationality and logic to match his worldview, but that's just not the reality and is in contrast to fact. That said, a lot of what he says about an Open Society is still spot on.
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Crouton

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Re: War
« Reply #3856 on: December 16, 2024, 03:51:10 PM »
Clearly this Popper has never played any of the Civilization games.
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Username

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Re: War
« Reply #3857 on: December 17, 2024, 12:13:48 AM »
Honestly if you kept playing after II and didn't have kids - what were you thinking?
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Re: War
« Reply #3858 on: December 17, 2024, 12:14:35 AM »
Not fair, there were a few good ones in the mix, but II owned the field for a long time.
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FlatAssembler

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Re: War
« Reply #3859 on: December 17, 2024, 09:48:58 AM »
Quote from: JackBlack
Because wars are trivial to observe, with countless wars happening or having happened in recent history.
But how is it possible to study them scientifically? If the basic principles of social sciences suggest that they don't exist, then studying wars is the sociological equivalent of parapsychology, right?
Quote from: JackBlack
If social science suggest they don't exist, then that just shows how ridiculous it is.
Any legitimate criticism of social science requires an understanding of it. Have you published any papers about social sciences? I have.
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wise

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Re: War
« Reply #3860 on: December 17, 2024, 11:38:59 PM »
Trump is saying that Turkey is behind the coup in Syria. In Turkey, everyone except Erdoğan is claiming that this is the work of America and Israel. It seems that Trump is playing the Erdoğan card correctly this time. Erdoğan, who is someone who likes to boast, sees saying 'Yes, I did it, I succeeded' as a skill. However, doing this brings no benefit to either him or the country. But for Trump, this is a good attitude.

There is no need for foreign powers to do anything harmful to Turkey or make plans against it, having Erdoğan in presidency is already like having the power of 100 enemy countries.
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Unconvinced

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Re: War
« Reply #3861 on: December 21, 2024, 05:49:49 AM »
Maybe not the right place for this, but a Christmas market again?

How do people get this fucked up?

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JackBlack

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Re: War
« Reply #3862 on: December 23, 2024, 03:24:00 PM »
But how is it possible to study them scientifically? If the basic principles of social sciences suggest that they don't exist, then studying wars is the sociological equivalent of parapsychology, right?
You can study them scientifically by observing them, you can even measure things, like how many people die and from what cause.

If the basic principles of "social sciences" suggest they don't exist, then those basic principles are quite clearly wrong.

Any legitimate criticism of social science requires an understanding of it. Have you published any papers about social sciences? I have.
The only way in which that is true is if I am criticising social science, or just your bastardisation of it.
I don't need to have read anything on social sciences to point out that wars exist and someone claiming they don't is wrong.

So the only real question to address before such criticism is if it is actually social science, or just your BS.
But either way it is wrong. Wars are real.

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Themightykabool

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Re: War
« Reply #3863 on: December 23, 2024, 07:00:33 PM »
Who says wars dont exist?

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JackBlack

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Re: War
« Reply #3864 on: December 23, 2024, 07:26:33 PM »
Who says wars dont exist?

What do you think guys, why is it reasonable to believe that wars exist, when basic principles of social sciences suggest that they don't exist? If I remember correctly, Karl Popper explicitly admitted that wars are difficult to make compatible with the Principle of Rationality, and the Principle of Rationality is one of the basic principles of modern-day social sciences.

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Themightykabool

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Re: War
« Reply #3865 on: December 24, 2024, 06:42:29 AM »
 Haha ya he said.

But who is he ref to that said?

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JackBlack

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Re: War
« Reply #3866 on: December 24, 2024, 12:58:46 PM »
Haha ya he said.

But who is he ref to that said?
Well I found this on Quora:
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-it-reasonable-to-believe-that-wars-exist-when-basic-principles-of-social-sciences-strongly-suggest-they-dont-exist-Karl-Popper-explicitly-admitted-that-wars-are-difficult-to-make-compatible-with-The-Principle
Almost word for word identical to what he said.

As far as I can tell, only he says it.

Popper just says they are difficult to make compatible, not that they don't exist.
If anything that is an admission that they do exist.
Popper seemed to more be trying to use it to stop war.

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FlatAssembler

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Re: War
« Reply #3867 on: December 25, 2024, 01:20:29 PM »
Quote from: JackBlack
I don't need to have read anything on social sciences to point out that wars exist and someone claiming they don't is wrong.
I disagree. I think that, if one wants to be a Flat-Earther, one should have a basic understanding of astronomy. At least enough to know that constellations, according to mainstream astronomy, aren't groups of near-by stars. And that, if one wants to be an atheist, one should have a basic understanding of theology. At least enough to know what "theodicy" is. And, for similar reasons, if one wants to claim that wars exist, one should know the basics of social sciences.
Quote from: JackBlack
So the only real question to address before such criticism is if it is actually social science, or just your BS.
Well, like I've said, I've published a few papers about social sciences, so I am quite sure I know what I am talking about when talking about social sciences. My latest paper is "Etimologija Karašica", about applying basic information theory to the Croatian river names, and I published that paper in two journals that claim to be peer-reviewed: Valpovački Godišnjak and Regionalne Studije. You can read more about it here.
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JackBlack

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Re: War
« Reply #3868 on: December 25, 2024, 02:39:40 PM »
I disagree. I think that, if one wants to be a Flat-Earther, one should have a basic understanding of astronomy.
Again, completely invalid comparison.

We can clearly see wars exist.
If someone says they don't, they are wrong.
I don't need to have studied social science to know this.
Unless you meant study enough to see that wars exist.
Literally that is all that is needed.

If you would like a more valid comparison, instead of someone claiming Earth is flat, they are claiming stars do not exist at all and the night sky is entirely black.
I don't need a basic understanding of astronomy to be able to go outside and look up at the night sky and see it is not entirely black.

And that, if one wants to be an atheist
If someone wants to label themselves as a theist.

They don't need to know what a god is to not believe in one.

Well, like I've said, I've published a few papers about social sciences, so I am quite sure I know what I am talking about when talking about social sciences.
And you are clearly talking pure BS.
Wars exist. No amount of your BS is changing that.

basic information theory to the Croatian river names
And how does that make you in any way qualified to talk about the existence of war?

If you want to say war doesn't exist, why don't you try more than a baseless claim?
Especially given the fact that war is observed quite often.

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FlatAssembler

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Re: War
« Reply #3869 on: December 26, 2024, 08:13:37 AM »
Quote from: JackBlack
If you would like a more valid comparison, instead of someone claiming Earth is flat, they are claiming stars do not exist at all and the night sky is entirely black.
I don't need a basic understanding of astronomy to be able to go outside and look up at the night sky and see it is not entirely black.
Hm, I must admit that I haven't thought about that.
Quote from: JackBlack
And how does that make you in any way qualified to talk about the existence of war?
Well, it makes me qualified to make statements about the basic principles of social sciences, doesn't it? If I have published papers in social sciences...
Fan of Stephen Wolfram.
This is my parody of the conspiracy theorists:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=71184.0
This is my attempt to refute the Flat-Earth theory: