My impossible challenge for FE'ers

A test to show how Earth is a ball, using a basketball and camera, that's fine 'evidence', if anything is!

It's pure garbage. As usual.

A basketball and camera is a great way to demonstrate Earth curvature from a flat horizon up close. Personally, I would have gone the extra mile and used an inflatable Earth globe, 12 foot in diameter for the demonstration, but a basketball works just fine. So, let me get this straight - because the horizon is straight and flat at ground level is enough proof for you, that Earth is actually flat?

How is that not an actual measurement? Photographs, radar, lidar, GPS, distances between cities by plane train and boats, measurements of the Suns shadow, all of these are confirmed to be true, all match. All are consistent with a sphere. None show a flat disk. NONE.

We have literally measured the entire surface of the Earth.

The evidence is overwhelming, consistent and you can even do some of it yourself. Try the Eratosthenes method.

Where is your ACTUAL measurement that the earth is a flat disk? How big of a measuring stick did you use? 

The false assumption that Earth was a ball, the false assumption the Sun was millions of miles away from Earth, while hundreds of times LARGER than the Earth, which gives THREE of many MORE false assumptions assumed are FACTS, to then 'measure' the rest of their claims, which - shockingly - 'matched' up with the REST of their story!!

Lies supporting earlier lies, which support earlier lies, and so on!  That's your entire fairy tale, start to finish!


You've based your entire fairy tale on piles of BS, each one in support of the others!


ACTUAL measurements are done every single day, using ACTUAL instruments, on ACTUAL flights! They do NOT lie, nor make up magical BS forces which don't exist!


Planes reach cruising altitude, which may be 30-50,000 feet, on any given flight.

Once at that altitude, they find LEVEL FLIGHT, and remain there, whenever possible, the entire flight, until they near their destination.

So a 6 hour flight will cross thousands of miles, at the SAME altitude, while flying LEVEL, accounting for any adjustments along the way.

It would cover nearly 2000 feet of 'Earth's curvature', over a 6 hour flight, in a commercial plane, like a 757, for instance!

But the plane remains level throughout, at the same altitude, when accounting for any adjustments that may occur during flights.

How would you even THINK you have an argument is beyond me!

Do you know what a concentric circle is?

The false assumption that Earth was a ball, the false assumption the Sun was millions of miles away from Earth, while hundreds of times LARGER than the Earth, which gives THREE of many MORE false assumptions assumed are FACTS, to then 'measure' the rest of their claims, which - shockingly - 'matched' up with the REST of their story!!

No, it just shows how pathetic your position is.

The observations of the sun, from both different locations on Earth and from different times at a particular location; collectively demonstrate beyond any doubt that the sun is extremely far away.
The distance to the sun must be many times the size of Earth.

So that isn't a false assumption. That is a conclusion.
A fact if you will. A fact supported by mountains of evidence, and refuted by none.

This very significant distance also makes it very large. However without other observations, it cannot be determined if it is larger or smaller than Earth.
Fortunately, other observations have been made which allow us to confirm that it is in fact many times the size of Earth.
But this fact is entirely irrelevant to the issue.
We don't need to know how big it is. It being far away is enough.

And this then brings us back to the first lie of yours in that post, that Earth is round.
That isn't an assumption that is needed. Not if you know the sun is very far away.
That then becomes a necessary conclusion to match the observations.

So no, not three false assumptions assumed to be facts.
Three simple, logical conclusions based upon the available evidence.

And that was just for Eratosthenes method.

The photos from space don't need any assumptions.
The measurement of the angle of dip to the horizon don't need any assumptions.
Yet they both quite conclusively demonstrate Earth is round.

And what evidence do you have?
NOTHING AT ALL.

Instead, all you can do is to falsely claim the actual evidence are just lies.

Lies supporting earlier lies, which support earlier lies, and so on!  That's your entire fairy tale, start to finish!

No, that would be your fairy tale.
All you have are lies, lies and more lies.
You don't have any evidence at all to back up your fairy tale.

ACTUAL measurements are done every single day, using ACTUAL instruments, on ACTUAL flights!

Do you mean those which rely upon Earth being round to be able to get to their destination?
With a FE rendering some flights impossible?
And thus clearly demonstrating Earth is round, not the flat disk you fantasise about?

So a 6 hour flight will cross thousands of miles, at the SAME altitude, while flying LEVEL, accounting for any adjustments along the way.

Yes, notice the key words:
LEVEL, and ALTITUDE.
They maintain their altitude above the surface of Earth, the curved surface, following it to remain level.

They don't fly straight.

Do you understand the difference between straight and level?

It would cover nearly 2000 feet of 'Earth's curvature'

Only if it decided to not fly level, and instead to ascend, quite significantly.
Good thing they don't do that.

How would you even THINK you have an argument is beyond me!

Do you mean those which rely upon Earth being round to be able to get to their destination?
With a FE rendering some flights impossible?
And thus clearly demonstrating Earth is round, not the flat disk you fantasise about?


Yes, notice the key words:
LEVEL, and ALTITUDE.
They maintain their altitude above the surface of Earth, the curved surface, following it to remain level.

They don't fly straight.

Do you understand the difference between straight and level?


Only if it decided to not fly level, and instead to ascend, quite significantly.
Good thing they don't do that.

What exactly would you believe we MEASURE as a ball Earth, or 'curved surface'?

This 'curve' isn't measured, isn't seen, isn't accounted for during flights, never known to even EXIST, for that matter, beyond in fairy tales.

What does 'level' actually mean? It means flat, and straight, as a surface, or line, or trajectory, across the surface, or along the surface, or within water, or along the surface of water, etc....

There is NOTHING 'curved', or 'curving', or 'arcing', or 'circular', or 'round', it is the complete OPPOSITE of anything round, curved, or circular.

Spirit levels use water, and an air bubble, within a compartment, in the middle of a straight edge, to measure for level, as we all know. What is being measured, and how can it determine for level?

There's a lot of new BS arguments from YOU ball Earther's, in sheer desperation, that claims 'level', is not flat and straight across, it is actually a 'CURVED LINE', over Earth, even if it nobody knows or can measure it! 

What would ever measure this as a 'curve', instead of being level, as a flat, straight line, surface, or trajectory is known to be, and always HAS been known to be?


You're trying to say instruments that measure for level, on Earth, in water, in air, don't measure for a flat, straight line, or surface, but measure for a level 'curvature around the entire Earth ball', wherever it's measured, however long the measurement is! Nobody measures anything but a flat, straight line or surface, in fact.

What would anyone ever hope to measure 'level to Earth's curvature', by using a two or three inch long spirit level? How would anyone find level as a 'curvature of Earth level', instead of it measuring for flat and straight across?

How would anyone believe such complete BS as this, because if YOU really did, you'd have said it all along, not just spew it out now, of the blue!

Assuming that IS your argument, of course....

What exactly would you believe we MEASURE as a ball Earth, or 'curved surface'?

The simplest is the angle of dip to the horizon.
Another one is the change in angle to a very distant object.

A more complex one is measuring distance over the surface and then reconstructing the surface from those distances, which would include allowing the shape to be a sphere.

But you can also directly measure it with precise equipment.

This 'curve' isn't measured

Tell that to surveyors.

isn't seen

We have been over this, it is seen, in the horizon, and with distant objects disappearing from the bottom up.

isn't accounted for during flights

It is accounted for in flights, hence the routes planes fly. Including going between Australia, South Africa and South America, where the planes take off heading partly south and arrive at their destination from the south.

never known to even EXIST

You rejecting reality doesn't mean other people don't know the curve exists.

What does 'level' actually mean? It means flat, and straight

No, it doesn't.
For starters, that definition would make it extremely limited, and only capable of applying to spatial measurements, when in reality it isn't that limited.
"flat and straight" doesn't even require it to be level.
You can have a flat and straight surface with one side much higher than the other, e.g. a ramp.

Level means there is some value which remains constant.

as a surface, or line, or trajectory, across the surface, or along the surface, or within water, or along the surface of water, etc....

That is closer.
Notice how "along the surface" doesn't require it to be a straight surface?
What do you think "along the surface" would mean for a spherical object?

it is the complete OPPOSITE of anything round, curved, or circular.

Quite the opposite.
In reality, a circle is "level", as it is equidistant from the centre point.

What is being measured, and how can it determine for level?

Gravity, something else you reject.
It measures the direction of down, with level being perpendicular to it.
It is measuring the direction of an equipotential surface.

It has nothing to do with being straight.

There's a lot of new BS arguments from YOU ball Earther's, in sheer desperation

No, that would be from the FEers, but they keep repeating the same old BS claims as well, not realising the distinction between level and flat.

What would ever measure this as a 'curve', instead of being level, as a flat, straight line, surface, or trajectory is known to be, and always HAS been known to be?

It has been known to be curved for thousands of years.
It has never been known to be flat.
Some delusional people think it is flat, but that isn't knowing.

I have already provided above how we can measure this curve.
How do you think it has been measured as flat?

Here is a better question for you:
How do planes measure their altitude, such that they can maintain level flight?

How would anyone believe such complete BS as this, because if YOU really did, you'd have said it all along, not just spew it out now, of the blue!

I said it now because of the ignorant garbage you spouted just before.

A good site for showing waves to measure the earth.
https://profmattstrassler.com/2022/01/24/the-earths-shape-and-size-measure-it-yourself-part-1/

Quote from: JackBlack on May 06, 2022, 09:45:20 PM

Do you mean those which rely upon Earth being round to be able to get to their destination?
With a FE rendering some flights impossible?
And thus clearly demonstrating Earth is round, not the flat disk you fantasise about?


Yes, notice the key words:
LEVEL, and ALTITUDE.
They maintain their altitude above the surface of Earth, the curved surface, following it to remain level.

They don't fly straight.

Do you understand the difference between straight and level?


Only if it decided to not fly level, and instead to ascend, quite significantly.
Good thing they don't do that.

What exactly would you believe we MEASURE as a ball Earth, or 'curved surface'?

This 'curve' isn't measured, isn't seen, isn't accounted for during flights, never known to even EXIST, for that matter, beyond in fairy tales.

What does 'level' actually mean? It means flat, and straight, as a surface, or line, or trajectory, across the surface, or along the surface, or within water, or along the surface of water, etc....

There is NOTHING 'curved', or 'curving', or 'arcing', or 'circular', or 'round', it is the complete OPPOSITE of anything round, curved, or circular.

Spirit levels use water, and an air bubble, within a compartment, in the middle of a straight edge, to measure for level, as we all know. What is being measured, and how can it determine for level?

There's a lot of new BS arguments from YOU ball Earther's, in sheer desperation, that claims 'level', is not flat and straight across, it is actually a 'CURVED LINE', over Earth, even if it nobody knows or can measure it! 

What would ever measure this as a 'curve', instead of being level, as a flat, straight line, surface, or trajectory is known to be, and always HAS been known to be?


You're trying to say instruments that measure for level, on Earth, in water, in air, don't measure for a flat, straight line, or surface, but measure for a level 'curvature around the entire Earth ball', wherever it's measured, however long the measurement is! Nobody measures anything but a flat, straight line or surface, in fact.

What would anyone ever hope to measure 'level to Earth's curvature', by using a two or three inch long spirit level? How would anyone find level as a 'curvature of Earth level', instead of it measuring for flat and straight across?

How would anyone believe such complete BS as this, because if YOU really did, you'd have said it all along, not just spew it out now, of the blue!

Assuming that IS your argument, of course....

Mate, if you can try and get your head around how earth's gravity works, you wouldn't be calling jack blacks posts all bullshit. Maybe boring, but not bullshit.

The curve exists, it's just that we can't see it from ground zero. You can't see wind either, can you? But you can see it's effects and feel it, can't you? You can't see your own backside, normally, either, can you? But you know it's there, because you feel it. You'd feel it a lot!

Tell that to surveyors.


Gravity, something else you reject.
It measures the direction of down, with level being perpendicular to it.
It is measuring the direction of an equipotential surface.

How do planes measure their altitude, such that they can maintain level flight?

Planes measure for level flight, at altitude, and both match up in flight. One cannot change without the other one changing, they are in synch.

The VSI measures for ascent, and descent, and neither one, in feet per minute.

When a plane isn't level, it is either in an ascent, or in a descent. No matter if it's very very slight of an ascent or a descent, it is known and measured by the VSI, in feet per minute ascent or descent. Other instruments are also involved, of course.

If Earth WAS a ball, it'd be crucial to account for it on all flights, and we WOULD CERTAINLY NEED TO MEASURE IT ACCURATELY, before ANY flights go ahead!

How could it NOT be so? It's an entirely DIFFERENT surface than it really is now - a curved surface has significant challenges that cannot be ignored, nor could they be ignored, if it WAS actually 'curved', which is not the case, of course.

You cannot seem to grasp this point yet. To you, planes just fly above a ball Earth without a problem, without any measuring for it, or accounting for it, 'gravity' will surely account for 'curvature' within our many, many flights, no?

When you're suggesting that every other instrument we've ever developed, and have used, or that we use now, for measurements of some sort, have never been false or mistaken in what they are measuring.....

Except with instruments that measure for 'level', of course! They are not correctly measuring for 'level'. It's done by 'gravity', making all instruments read 'level', as a 'level to the Earth's curvature'!


That's really good! Make up a magical force, say it makes our instruments read what you want it to read, which is a curving ball Earth. 


And no proof is ever needed, too!

Planes measure for level flight, at altitude, and both match up in flight.

Great job completely avoiding the question.
What physical thing are they actually measuring?
How are they measuring it?

Do you know, or are you just boldly asserting that they can magically track a straight line?

As you seem to have no idea, there are 3 main ways planes can determine their altitude.
1 - Radar, where they see how far below the ground is.
Obviously this is going to follow the surface of Earth. So if a plane maintains its altitude relative to this, it will follow the curvature of Earth. It would even follow things like hills and mountains.
2 - GPS, where they use satellites in orbit around a RE, with calculations based upon a RE to determine their altitude relative to mean sea level on a round Earth.
Obviously, as this is based on a RE, that means a plane maintaining altitude based on GPS will also follow the curvature of Earth.
3 - Air pressure, where they measure the pressure of the air and use a known correlation between altitude above sea level (which follows the curve of Earth) and air pressure to determine their altitude.
As the gradient in the air pressure is based upon gravity pointing towards Earth, with air having a greater pressure the closer it is to Earth, this will again follow the curvature of Earth.

So all 3 methods planes can use to determine their altitude will follow the curvature of Earth.

So a plane in level flight will not care about the curve.

As for just what the curve is, the fastest commercial jets go significantly below 1000 km/hr.
That means each hour they would need to turn less than 9 degrees.
Each minute they would need to turn less than 9 arc minutes.
If they are going with the rotation of Earth, at the equator that would increase to almost the speed of the hour hand on a clock.

Yet the autopilot continually changes their pitch and several other factors to maintain their altitude.

So they will not notice any corrections made to follow the curve, nor would any sane person expect them to.

When a plane isn't level, it is either in an ascent, or in a descent.

So when it is maintaining the same altitude above the roughly spherical Earth, it would be level. It would not be ascending, nor descending.

If Earth WAS a ball, it'd be crucial to account for it on all flights, and we WOULD CERTAINLY NEED TO MEASURE IT ACCURATELY, before ANY flights go ahead!

Pure BS.
Unless you are referring to the fact that most modern planes use GPS to determine their position which is entirely upon a RE, and is done to a very good level of accuracy, so If Earth was flat planes would be getting lost all the time.

The effect of curvature is flight is mainly important for deterring the route, to fly the most efficient route.

How could it NOT be so?

Because of how planes actually measure their altitude.
I notice you still haven't said that.

If you knew how they did, you would realise that planes can fly level, without needing to care about the curvature of Earth.

You cannot seem to grasp this point yet.

I fully grasp your point.
I just realise it is pure BS.
You either have no idea how planes fly, or you are intentionally spouting pure garbage.

Which is it?

Try to make a coherent argument to clearly explain why a plane would need to compensate for the curve.
Don't just repeatedly assert they need to.
Clearly explain how.
With this make sure you refer to particular instruments on the plane and what they are actually measuring, and how that works on the round earth you live on.

When you're suggesting that every other instrument we've ever developed, and have used, or that we use now, for measurements of some sort, have never been false or mistaken in what they are measuring.....

It isn't the instruments that are at fault here, it is you.
Primarily your complete inability to understand what level means.

That's really good! Make up a magical force, say it makes our instruments read what you want it to read, which is a curving ball Earth. 
And no proof is ever needed, too!

And yet again you project your own inadequacies.

You claim that planes work by pure magic so they can magically follow a straight line with no justification at all.
You offer absolutely no proof nor evidence, all while continually fleeing from evidence and arguments that destroy the nonsense you are spouting.
You sure do love your projection.

You have completely fled from the original issue that was being discussed, and just kept on running, continually trying to change the topic to avoid your complete failure.
Just look at what you have done in this thread.
You came in and boldly attacked NASA, quickly settling with your first claim of blatant lies about photos of Earth.
Where you had to spout complete nonsense to prop up that hatred of yours.
After being repeatedly refuted, you then fled, without any acknowledgement that your prior claims were pure garbage.
You fled to Apollo, where you spouted more lies you couldn't substantiate, before fleeing again with no acknowledgement of your lies.
Fleeing to footage of Astronauts in space, with more lies you fled from.
Fleeing to horizons, with even more lies. And again you flee.
Fleeing to measurements of the curvature, with even more lies and more fleeing.
Now you have fled to planes, with still more lies.

When will you stop fleeing and start owning up to the mountains of BS you are spouting?

Quote from: JJA on April 30, 2022, 07:27:06 AM

We have literally measured the entire surface of the Earth.

The evidence is overwhelming, consistent and you can even do some of it yourself. Try the Eratosthenes method.

The false assumption that Earth was a ball, the false assumption the Sun was millions of miles away from Earth, while hundreds of times LARGER than the Earth, which gives THREE of many MORE false assumptions assumed are FACTS, to then 'measure' the rest of their claims, which - shockingly - 'matched' up with the REST of their story!!

Lies supporting earlier lies, which support earlier lies, and so on!  That's your entire fairy tale, start to finish!

You've based your entire fairy tale on piles of BS, each one in support of the others!

Putting 'measure' ins quotes don't magically make them fake, made up or part of some grand worldwide conspiracy. You call piles of evidence BS, normal people call it evidence.

How shocking that measurements of reality all match. How can that be so, must be an evil conspiracy run by the devil!

Once more you say a lot of words, but provide zero evidence or any reasoning other than simply denying it all.

Have you tried the Eratosthenes experiment? I'm going to guess you won't ever bother even trying, even if you could understand how it works. It involves lines and angles after all.

So a 6 hour flight will cross thousands of miles, at the SAME altitude, while flying LEVEL, accounting for any adjustments along the way.

LOL! Adjustments, like slowly tilting the plane to follow the curve of the earth. Hahaha. Do you really not understand how you can follow a curve at the same distance? Wow.

That tired argument never gets old. Your continued ability to misunderstand such simple things is just baffling.

How would you even THINK you have an argument is beyond me!

The fact you are so confused as how basic geometry works explains why you can't understand any of this. It's why you have to explain it all away by God did it or the conspiracy did it. Is God part of the conspiracy? 

LOL! Adjustments, like slowly tilting the plane to follow the curve of the earth. Hahaha. Do you really not understand how you can follow a curve at the same distance? Wow.

Except they never do adjust or account for any sort of curves, nor need to adjust or account for any curves, that's why they all work with our flat Earth.

Air pressure flows level above the flat, level surface of Earth. A paper airplane flies best when moving in a flat path of air, not upward or downward at an angle, that's where it will RESIST it's flight in air.

That's the same principle used by planes to measure for level flight - a flat, straight across path in air, which is the least resistant path of air - it makes perfect sense, right?

Air doesn't flow in curves, around a ball shaped Earth, that's totally ridiculous!

Laser levels aren't 'curving lines' either!

Laser levels aren't 'curving lines' either!

Yep, that's why for LOGO they had to account for curvature of the earth over long distances for their lasers:

Precision alignment of the LIGO 4 km arms using dual-frequency differential GPS

The alignment of the Laser Interferomter Gravitational-wave Observatory (LIGO) using the Global Positioning System (GPS) is described...The subject of this article is the alignment of the 16 km of beam tubes using dual-frequency differential GPS. A maximum deviation from straightness in inertial space of 5 mm rms and an orthogonality between arm pairs of better than 5 microradians is reported.

LIGO, however, posed several unique challenges. The beam tubes needed to be aligned along the propagation direction of light in vacuum and not along the direction perpendicular to local gravity on the surface of the Earth11. The curvature of the Earth will cause the Earth's surface to deviate from the straight line propagated by light in vacuum by 1.25 meters over a 4 km path if the line starts out level with the surface.
https://dcc.ligo.org/public/0072/P000006/000/P000006-A.pdf

It sounds like another huge waste of money, I'd say!

'Gravity', please save our fairy tale, yet again!

It sounds like another huge waste of money, I'd say!

'Gravity', please save our fairy tale, yet again!

Whether you think something is a huge waste of money or not is irrelevant.

Engineering efforts sometimes have to take the curvature of the earth into account, as evidenced above. Now it is time for you to provide evidence that they don't. Because all you've provided thus far is some whining about how you don't like something. Stomping your feet is not evidence. Grow up and provide some evidence.

It's not 'evidence', at all. How do you have any clue about this BS being 'true' or not?

Grow up, indeed, because this is complete nonsense.

It's not 'evidence', at all. How do you have any clue about this BS being 'true' or not?

Grow up, indeed, because this is complete nonsense.

Because engineers use these calculations regarding earth curvature and gravity to design and build amazing things all over and above the planet. That would be evidence. That's how I have a clue.

What are your clues that all of those endeavors across the globe are being designed incorrectly?

It sounds like another huge waste of money, I'd say!

'Gravity', please save our fairy tale, yet again!

Is the lawn mower constantly adjusting its direction or is it the rope pulling it towards the center?


If the rope didnt wind but instead was allowed to freely spin, would the lawn mower gain distance or move closer or stay the same distance away from the pol?

Except they never do adjust or account for any sort of curves

Except they do, when planning the direction of their trip.

They don't need to adjust for the curvature when they are flying, as they will maintain their altitude which necessarily means adjusting for the curvature.

Just how do you think they would need to adjust?

Air pressure flows level above the

Above the round surface of Earth.
The surface itself isn't level with things like hills and mountains, but sea level is level.

A paper airplane flies best when moving in a flat path of air, not upward or downward at an angle, that's where it will RESIST it's flight in air.

You mean a LEVEL path of air.
Have you demonstrated that it is flat, rather than curving following the very minor curvature of Earth?

Because that is the actual principle used by planes, to maintain LEVEL, not flat.

Air doesn't flow in curves, around a ball shaped Earth, that's totally ridiculous!

Why? Because you don't like it?
Can you demonstrate any problem with it, or just dismiss it because it would mean your delusional BS is wrong?

Because right now your argument is:
"Earth is flat, so planes fly above a flat, level surface, in a straight line, so Earth is flat."
You both start and end with a claim that Earth is flat.
You could do the same with a RE:
"Earth is curved, so planes fly above a curved, level surface, in a curved line, so Earth is curved."

As such, all you are demonstrating is your desperation.

Laser levels aren't 'curving lines' either!

Laser levels only work to level a surface over a relatively small distance (compared to the size of Earth).
When was the last time a single laser level was used to level a distance of more than 1 km?

Quote from: JJA on May 07, 2022, 05:55:16 AM

LOL! Adjustments, like slowly tilting the plane to follow the curve of the earth. Hahaha. Do you really not understand how you can follow a curve at the same distance? Wow.

Except they never do adjust or account for any sort of curves, nor need to adjust or account for any curves, that's why they all work with our flat Earth.

You have no idea how planes actually work, do you?  How can you even prove that planes can't follow a curve?  They can go up and down easily enough.  Do you have any actual evidence, or just making this all up as you go?

Why don't you ask an actual pilot if planes prove the Earth is flat. You're going to get laughed at. You find me one single airline pilot who agrees with you and then we can talk.

Until then, once more, all you have is your argument from incredulity.  I'm sorry, but you not being able to understand how ANYTHING works just means you are seriously ignorant, not that there is some massive conspiracy to hide things from you.

Nothing makes sense to you because you are, well, lets just say it's not anyone elses fault.

The concept of gravity being real or not is irrelevant in a flat vs round plane scenario.

Round
A plane is not flying into space because gravity contiues to pull it in.
The model is satisfied.

Flat.
A plane is able to maintian altitude.
The model is satsified.

Can we map a flight to australia?
The model ilbecomes mysteriously vague.

Measuring level is a flat, straight line, path, or surface. Every time, with every instrument.

When YOU claim that level is measured over Earth's 'curvature', which is supposedly 8 inches per mile, squared.....it's simply nonsense. A fairy tale claim, based on nothing at all.

Levels can be a few inches long, or hundreds of feet long, and they ALL measure for level, as a flat, straight line, or surface, NOTHING CURVED!

So how would you ever measure for a curve, using a level 6 inches long? How would you know what it is really measuring is a tiny fraction of a 'curve', instead of a FLAT surface?

You're claiming it is measuring for Earth's curvature, over a 6 inch distance? How does that ever work out? By magic, of course!


Laser levels confirm it DOES measure level as flat and straight across, NOT a curved ball planet with a magical super-force inside of it, shooting out magical 'gravity' waves over Earth, and the entire atmosphere above Earth, too, just because it CAN do anything you wish for!


Laser levels measure for level above Earth, no 'curvature' would matter, and doesn't matter, anyway.

Laser levels confirm that all OTHER instruments DO measure level, as a flat, straight line, path, or surface.


No more BS, it's just foolish.

Laser levels only work to level a surface over a relatively small distance (compared to the size of Earth).
When was the last time a single laser level was used to level a distance of more than 1 km?

It confirms what level really means, what is measured as level, as a flat, straight line, path, or surface, with ALL our instruments that measure for level.

Laser levels eliminate your absurd 'level to Earth's curvature' claim, as utter nonsense!

I suppose your magical made up 'superforce' also makes laser levels 'curve' too? Have fun making up more BS for that one!

Measuring level is a flat, straight line, path, or surface. Every time, with every instrument.

No, it isn't.
The vast majority of instruments measure an angle, not a line.
So you massively fail there.
They measure the angle that is perpendicular to the local direction of down.
That is not measuring a straight line.

Levels can be a few inches long, or hundreds of feet long

Care to provide an example of such a level that measures a distance hundreds of feet long?
Then care to demonstrate that they don't follow Earth's curvature?

So how would you ever measure for a curve, using a level 6 inches long?
You're claiming it is measuring for Earth's curvature, over a 6 inch distance?

Do you even understand basic English?
They don't measure "for a curve".
They measure the direction of down.

How would you know what it is really measuring is a tiny fraction of a 'curve', instead of a FLAT surface?

Based upon the mountains of evidence showing Earth is round.

Laser levels confirm it DOES measure level as flat and straight across, NOT a curved ball planet

No it doesn't.
The error of a standard laser level is far greater than the drop expected due to the curvature of Earth.

No more BS, it's just foolish.

So you will stop posting all your BS?
Because it seems you are still continuing.

Laser levels eliminate your absurd 'level to Earth's curvature' claim, as utter nonsense!

No, they don't.
According to https://www.topconlaser.com.au/accuracy_laser_levels
the accuracy of a laser level is 1.5 mm at 30 m.
The drop due to curvature over 30 m is 0.07 mm.

If you extend that out to 400 m, the maximum range of the laser, that error grows to 20 mm, while the curvature only grows to 12.6 mm.

The change in angle would only be 0.0036 degrees.

The laser level is not accurate enough to measure the curvature.

The closest you get to a laser level good enough to measure the curvature of Earth would be with large projects like LIGO, which needed to account for the curvature of Earth during their construction.

There is no need for any magic, just some simple rational thought. You should try it some time.

No, they don't.
According to https://www.topconlaser.com.au/accuracy_laser_levels
the accuracy of a laser level is 1.5 mm at 30 m.
The drop due to curvature over 30 m is 0.07 mm.

If you extend that out to 400 m, the maximum range of the laser, that error grows to 20 mm, while the curvature only grows to 12.6 mm.

The change in angle would only be 0.0036 degrees.

The laser level is not accurate enough to measure the curvature.

Unlike all OTHER instruments which DO measure your 'curvature', somehow?

So laser levels, which are used in surgical procedures because of their accuracy, cannot measure your ball Earth's curve at all? You better tell all our surgeons to stop using laser instruments at ONCE!

Do you know that they are calibrated before they're used? Calibration of instruments is for accuracy, and range of error, or tolerance.

And don't make up this BS about their accuracy BEING 1.5 mm over 30 m distance, they must be WITHIN 1.5 mm accurate, not BEING at 1.5 mm, don't lie, it won't work, so stop the BS.

Unlike all OTHER instruments which DO measure your 'curvature', somehow?

Again, do you understand incredibly simple English?
They measure the direction of down. They aren't measuring the curvature or flatness or anything like that. They just measure which way is down.

This isn't difficult to comprehend. So why do you keep playing dumb? Or are you really not playing?

So laser levels, which are used in surgical procedures because of their accuracy

Got a source for that?
Or is that yet another bold, baseless claim of yours?
(Note: not that they use lasers, but that they use laser levels)

Also note the accuracy, 1.5 mm over 30 m. For the best laser level.
Last time I checked, surgeries were not conducted over 30 m.
If you shrink that down to 30 cm, that drops down to 0.015 mm, or 15 um.
For comparison, the size of a human cell is on the order of 10s to 100s of um.
As another comparison, the drop due to the curvature of Earth over that distance is ~7 nm.

And don't make up this BS about their accuracy BEING 1.5 mm over 30 m distance

I didn't make it up.
They can only be relied upon to that level of accuracy. And that was the best one there. Most are much worse.
A simple laser simply cannot measure Earth's curvature.

stop the BS.

Follow your own advice.

Quote from: JackBlack on May 14, 2022, 01:50:31 AM

No, they don't.
According to https://www.topconlaser.com.au/accuracy_laser_levels
the accuracy of a laser level is 1.5 mm at 30 m.
The drop due to curvature over 30 m is 0.07 mm.

If you extend that out to 400 m, the maximum range of the laser, that error grows to 20 mm, while the curvature only grows to 12.6 mm.

The change in angle would only be 0.0036 degrees.

The laser level is not accurate enough to measure the curvature.

Unlike all OTHER instruments which DO measure your 'curvature', somehow?

So laser levels, which are used in surgical procedures because of their accuracy, cannot measure your ball Earth's curve at all? You better tell all our surgeons to stop using laser instruments at ONCE!

Do you know that they are calibrated before they're used? Calibration of instruments is for accuracy, and range of error, or tolerance.

And don't make up this BS about their accuracy BEING 1.5 mm over 30 m distance, they must be WITHIN 1.5 mm accurate, not BEING at 1.5 mm, don't lie, it won't work, so stop the BS.

Earth at the round earth diameter of 12,700km
How many sides would a 30m/side polygon do you think would be possible?



https://images.app.goo.gl/fyCHX3dvX4DZqrjW7




Oh why i use dia?
Circumference makes more sense

40,000km / 0.03km = 1,333,333sides.

Ok so whats angle between polygon of N = 1,333,333?

360/1,333,333= really small number.
Lets see any walmart protractor have that accuracy

So how would you ever measure for a curve, using a level 6 inches long? How would you know what it is really measuring is a tiny fraction of a 'curve', instead of a FLAT surface?

You're claiming it is measuring for Earth's curvature, over a 6 inch distance? How does that ever work out? By magic, of course!

LOLOL. 

So you really think all measurements of the Earths curve can only be done by people with a 12 inch ruler?   You simply can't comprehend any other way to do it, and think other systems of measuring are 'magic' because you don't understand lasers, radar, surveying or the Eratosthenes method which you can even do yourself.  Haven't tried it yet, have you?

How do you think we measure large areas when we build bridges and skyscrapers? A bunch of engineers with 12 inch rulers? 

Radar isn't magic, but I suppose to your limited understanding of basic technology, the modern world might as well be.

You would have been much happier in the stone age.

So you really think all measurements of the Earths curve can only be done by people with a 12 inch ruler?   

No, that's something you came up with yourself.

If you cannot understand what I said, that's one thing.

If you DO understand what I said, then you're being dishonest, in twisting what I said, into something else.

Read what I said once more...

So how would you ever measure for a curve, using a level 6 inches long? How would you know what it is really measuring is a tiny fraction of a 'curve', instead of a FLAT surface?

You're claiming it is measuring for Earth's curvature, over a 6 inch distance?

I'm asking you to prove there is 'curvature of Earth', over a 6 inch distance, with a small level. I'm asking you HOW it can measure for 'curvature', over a 6 inch distance.

If there IS 'curvature', you must show actual, verifiable, repeatable MEASUREMENTS of it.

Whether using a 6 inch level, or a 300 foot level, or any other instrument, you have NEVER measured for your 'curvature', you just keep saying, instruments measure 'level to Earth's curvature'!

And they measure the speed of flying pink elephants over Detroit at midnight, too! It is entirely worthless, and useless, to say something is 'measured', and never provide evidence for it!

This is entirely absurd, and it's getting worse all the time.

Your 'giant excuse bin' is almost empty, it's time for a refill!

Again I remind you, you ran away from this lie when I posted the link to a collection of thousands of measurements of curvature on McToons site.  Done with actual instruments be actual people who do this type of stiff as their everyday job.  You lying about the being no measurements and making up magical reasons for thing to return to the surface for "reasons" is pathetic.
Where is the origin that object "want" to return to?  You can remove material under an object sitting on the surface and it falls.  How far below the surface is this magical area that all objects magically know and some how magically move to get back there? 
Lies, hand waving, appealing to religion, and magical fairy fart power won't help you if you just ignore everything that shows you to be wrong.