Poll

On the subject of transgender

Put the transwomen in women's sports, change rooms, homeless shelters, gyms, prisons, everything! They are women afterall
3 (9.4%)
Trans people should be treated as a mental health problem. They aren't the opposite sex so keep them out of it
4 (12.5%)
We shouldn't berate, discriminate or abuse trans people. But neither should we put women in danger to cater their every demand
11 (34.4%)
As long as they get the chop and have the muscle mass of a soy boy it's all good
0 (0%)
Make a new class. Male, female, trans. Trans men/women belong in there
3 (9.4%)
I don't mind what an adult chooses but kids absolutely should grow up first. Trans surgery on kids is child abuse
11 (34.4%)
I don't care or have an opinion about this
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 19

The Great Gender Bender Debate

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Wolvaccine

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #120 on: January 27, 2021, 11:35:01 AM »
I don't want to cause you all to need brain bleach, but look up packers for toddlers. lol

Also, I think Jazz's mom (from I am Jazz) qualifies as one of those moms.

Ok, right now I'm going grab some Clorox so I can guzzle a brain eraser elixir. And in case I've got some covid swirling around, kill that as well. I have learned far too much today.

I'm really really sorry. lol

I just get a crappy looking football team shirt design? Is that it? Or is Google in Australia protecting my brain...

Stick with your Green Bay Packers garb for toddlers search results. You don't want to go further...

Lol. I think that's best. Didn't wander too far on the other search suggestion thank God lol

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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #121 on: January 27, 2021, 12:41:31 PM »
You brought up intersex conditions, which are determined scientifically. It has nothing to do with how someone feels.

You are mixing up gender identity and feelings with the science of sex. You also use gender and sex as if they mean the same thing!

It has everything to do with how someone feels, that's the entire topic of discussion, people who feel a different sex than their body shows.

Lets maybe try and see where we have different opinions. Do you agree or disagree that some people who are gay and trans have biological reasons for feeling the way they do?

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #122 on: January 27, 2021, 01:11:48 PM »
You brought up intersex conditions, which are determined scientifically. It has nothing to do with how someone feels.

You are mixing up gender identity and feelings with the science of sex. You also use gender and sex as if they mean the same thing!

It has everything to do with how someone feels, that's the entire topic of discussion, people who feel a different sex than their body shows.

Lets maybe try and see where we have different opinions. Do you agree or disagree that some people who are gay and trans have biological reasons for feeling the way they do?

I know it has to do with how someone feels, but intersex isn't a feeling. I don't why you brought intersex conditions into the topic at all. While there are some trans identifying people with intersex conditions, trans isn't the same as intersex. Most intersex people do not identify as transgender, and most intersex people's sex isn't ambiguous. 

Why do you conflate gay with trans? Do you mean someone who is gay and transgender? Like a trans woman who is sexually attracted to males?  I imagine there is a biological reason for homosexuality.   
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #123 on: January 27, 2021, 02:21:28 PM »
You brought up intersex conditions, which are determined scientifically. It has nothing to do with how someone feels.

You are mixing up gender identity and feelings with the science of sex. You also use gender and sex as if they mean the same thing!

It has everything to do with how someone feels, that's the entire topic of discussion, people who feel a different sex than their body shows.

Lets maybe try and see where we have different opinions. Do you agree or disagree that some people who are gay and trans have biological reasons for feeling the way they do?

I know it has to do with how someone feels, but intersex isn't a feeling. I don't why you brought intersex conditions into the topic at all. While there are some trans identifying people with intersex conditions, trans isn't the same as intersex. Most intersex people do not identify as transgender, and most intersex people's sex isn't ambiguous. 

Why do you conflate gay with trans? Do you mean someone who is gay and transgender? Like a trans woman who is sexually attracted to males?  I imagine there is a biological reason for homosexuality.

I'll try and explain again, I brought up two conditions which result in peoples bodies physically being a mix of sexes to demonstrate that there is a physical and biological basis for people feeling like their bodies don't match up with how they feel.  That their body or parts of their body might not match their internal knowledge of what they are.

That is the entire point of those conditions being brought up, to demonstrate that there are very obvious, impossible to deny conditions that make someone's emotional gender difficult to determine. And then to go from there, that not all such conditions are visible and that someone who is gay or trans or any other label may have a legitimate reason for feeling so.

That's why I brought intersex into the conversation. Take a step back and look at what I'm saying, I'm saying there are a whole host of physical variations that are the basis of the emotional variations. I'm not trying to say which causes what, just that there IS A CAUSE.

Again, I'm not conflating gay with trans just because I used them in the same sentence. I'm using them as examples of the whole spectrum.

Ah, I think I see what is going on.  I may have not worded that question perfectly clear. The word 'and' is ambiguous there I suppose, let me rephrase it.

Do you agree or disagree that some people who are gay or trans or any other non-binary identifying person can have a biological reason for feeling the way they do?

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markjo

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #124 on: January 27, 2021, 03:27:07 PM »
Do you agree or disagree that some people who are gay or trans or any other non-binary identifying person can have a biological reason for feeling the way they do?
I think that it's a case of the brain's wiring not necessarily matching the body's plumbing.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #125 on: January 27, 2021, 03:30:56 PM »
I believe it is probably likely there is a biological cause for same sex attraction. The others? Maybe for the real trans people, but there are way too many weirdos with diaper fetishes claiming to be trans for me to think that's caused by anything other than excessive sissy porn (also many of them admit this). Non binary is like dying your hair blue and calling yourself queer, so no I don't believe there's anything biological about non binary.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #126 on: January 27, 2021, 03:43:03 PM »
I believe it is probably likely there is a biological cause for same sex attraction. The others? Maybe for the real trans people, but there are way too many weirdos with diaper fetishes claiming to be trans for me to think that's caused by anything other than excessive sissy porn (also many of them admit this). Non binary is like dying your hair blue and calling yourself queer, so no I don't believe there's anything biological about non binary.

So we can basically agree then.

Gays and trans and others can have biological reasons for how they feel.

There are also those who have no biological reason for their choice other than having a kink about it.

( As for terms, when I say non-binary I mean everyone that doesn't adhere to the 'normal' roles of being male or female that matches your body. That includes gay, trans, asexual, ect. Just a catch-all for all the terms I can't keep track of. )

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #127 on: January 27, 2021, 04:05:54 PM »
Tell me, who really adheres to or is completely happy with the "normal" roles of being male or female? Non binary is a silly thing meant to make people feel special, like being emo or goth.

The fetishists outnumber the true trans, by a lot. This is why we're having this issue in the first place. You all think it's because we hate trans people, and we're saying over and over that a 53yr old dude who identifies as an 8yr old girl doesn't need access to women's bathrooms.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #128 on: January 27, 2021, 04:35:50 PM »
Tell me, who really adheres to or is completely happy with the "normal" roles of being male or female? Non binary is a silly thing meant to make people feel special, like being emo or goth.

The fetishists outnumber the true trans, by a lot. This is why we're having this issue in the first place. You all think it's because we hate trans people, and we're saying over and over that a 53yr old dude who identifies as an 8yr old girl doesn't need access to women's bathrooms.

Again, I think you have some specific definitions for terms, like non-binary that I don't share.  I've been trying to avoid them but I'm not sure how to describe a 'non-normal' sexual alignment. The term doesn't seem silly to me, it's just a way to describe a group of people as opposed to another group of people, but I won't use it anymore here. It's just a word to me.

I'm not sure what you mean by fetishists outnumbering the true trans by a lot. How does one even tell, I mean where is the line between someone who is 'playing' at tran and one that is serious?  If a guy wants to be treated as a woman, maybe it's because he has some natural female hormones or is just wired that way. Or he just likes it... or gets off on it. But really... what's the distinction here?

Someone pretending to be tran to get into a club so he can hit on the girls that go there... someone pretending to be tran so he can get into a womans bathroom... those are bad things, sure.  But a guy can dress up as a woman and sneak into a womens bathroom without being tran as well.  A guy can sneak in without dressing up, just going in when nobody is looking.  Those are also bad things, done by totally normal people without any tran laws being involved. 

I really just don't see the issue being specific to tran. Should we not allow lesbians into girls bathrooms because they might go in there to peek and get off? Gays can't use mens rooms for the same reason?  What about bisexuals, should they be banned from both?  Does nobody care about women enough to ban potential lesbian rapists from their safe places? 


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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #129 on: January 27, 2021, 04:55:40 PM »
Yes, anyone can sneak into the women's bathroom, but now we haven't got the right to kick the perverts out. Do you not see the difference? Before all this exploded TW were already using the women's bathroom, and for the most part there weren't any issues. Now we've got Jessica Yaniv, who writes online about wanting to help 10yr old girls put their tampons in, taking selfies in the women's bathroom and no one can do anything about it because he identifies as a woman. Now a guy can just go into the women's bathroom without sneaking, without wearing a dress, and just claim to be a woman if anyone says anything.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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markjo

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #130 on: January 27, 2021, 06:46:40 PM »
The fetishists outnumber the true trans, by a lot. This is why we're having this issue in the first place.
So you're saying that the fetishists are why the true trans can't have good things?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #131 on: January 27, 2021, 08:25:04 PM »
Yes, anyone can sneak into the women's bathroom, but now we haven't got the right to kick the perverts out. Do you not see the difference? Before all this exploded TW were already using the women's bathroom, and for the most part there weren't any issues. Now we've got Jessica Yaniv, who writes online about wanting to help 10yr old girls put their tampons in, taking selfies in the women's bathroom and no one can do anything about it because he identifies as a woman. Now a guy can just go into the women's bathroom without sneaking, without wearing a dress, and just claim to be a woman if anyone says anything.

Again... what exactly is the difference between a tran woman doing these things and a lesbian? How many women are getting off on helping little girls learn to use a tampon? Does anybody care enough to find out? Or is it only tran men who are threats?

And who lets their 10 year old use an adult bathroom unsupervised?

If selfies are a problem, ban that. How many lesbians and bisexual women take bathroom selfies, and why are they not stopped?

I admit I'm uneasy about just letting men walk into bathrooms but I need to read through Bidens order in detail to see exactly what's in it, and if it would let me just walk into a womans bathroom and start taking pictures, then that's clearly a problem. I just doubt that's what's in there.


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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #132 on: January 28, 2021, 07:44:09 AM »
Now you're being homophobic.

Why do you think a 10yr old is too young to use a toilet unsupervised? They're old enough to wipe their own asses.

Why the fuck do you think that selfies are the problem, and not the pervert taking them in the women's bathroom?

We aren't talking about Biden's executive order right now. There's nothing about bathrooms in his EO, but it will allow self ID when it comes to any institution that receives federal funding. You can already walk into women's bathrooms and claim to be a TW, it already happens.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #133 on: January 28, 2021, 08:03:50 AM »
Now you're being homophobic.

Why do you think a 10yr old is too young to use a toilet unsupervised? They're old enough to wipe their own asses.

Why the fuck do you think that selfies are the problem, and not the pervert taking them in the women's bathroom?

We aren't talking about Biden's executive order right now. There's nothing about bathrooms in his EO, but it will allow self ID when it comes to any institution that receives federal funding. You can already walk into women's bathrooms and claim to be a TW, it already happens.

How am I being homophobic?

I think a 10yr old can wipe their own ass.  I also think if you are concerned about them being accosted by strangers in bathrooms about tampons then you shouldn't send them in unsupervised.

So how do you tell the difference between an acceptable selfie and a pervert taking one?  Are all trans people perverts?  'Real' women can't be perverts? 

I can walk into a bathroom and claim to be intersex, are they going to pull my pants down and check?  Again, why is this a problem for trans or intersex but not lesbian perverts?

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #134 on: January 28, 2021, 08:13:00 AM »
Yes, anyone can sneak into the women's bathroom, but now we haven't got the right to kick the perverts out. Do you not see the difference? Before all this exploded TW were already using the women's bathroom, and for the most part there weren't any issues.

So what’s changed?  Trans women were already using women’s bathrooms without issue, but you object to trans women using women’s bathrooms?   

Quote
Now we've got Jessica Yaniv, who writes online about wanting to help 10yr old girls put their tampons in, taking selfies in the women's bathroom and no one can do anything about it because he identifies as a woman. Now a guy can just go into the women's bathroom without sneaking, without wearing a dress, and just claim to be a woman if anyone says anything.

So it’s about this arsehole? 



Why the fuck do you think that selfies are the problem, and not the pervert taking them in the women's bathroom?

Surely it’s about creepy and inappropriate behavior?  If someone is acting like a pervert, that’s not acceptable.  If they are just using the toilet, sink, etc.  then it’s fine.   


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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #135 on: January 28, 2021, 08:46:19 AM »
Now you're being homophobic.

Why do you think a 10yr old is too young to use a toilet unsupervised? They're old enough to wipe their own asses.

Why the fuck do you think that selfies are the problem, and not the pervert taking them in the women's bathroom?

We aren't talking about Biden's executive order right now. There's nothing about bathrooms in his EO, but it will allow self ID when it comes to any institution that receives federal funding. You can already walk into women's bathrooms and claim to be a TW, it already happens.

How am I being homophobic?

I think a 10yr old can wipe their own ass.  I also think if you are concerned about them being accosted by strangers in bathrooms about tampons then you shouldn't send them in unsupervised.

So how do you tell the difference between an acceptable selfie and a pervert taking one?  Are all trans people perverts?  'Real' women can't be perverts? 

I can walk into a bathroom and claim to be intersex, are they going to pull my pants down and check?  Again, why is this a problem for trans or intersex but not lesbian perverts?

Because you think there's no difference between a man and a lesbian.

I shouldn't have to be concerned about a 10yr old being accosted by a pervert in the bathroom. Self ID gives the perverts a free pass. It's weird you are more angry at women wanting to keep children safe, than you are at men wanting to perv in the bathroom.

We've already gone over this. The issue isn't taking a selfie, but the perverts in the women's taking them.

Why would you need to claim to be intersex? Why do you keep bringing intersex into a conversation about trans? Why do you keep being homophobic?
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #136 on: January 28, 2021, 08:50:44 AM »
Yes, anyone can sneak into the women's bathroom, but now we haven't got the right to kick the perverts out. Do you not see the difference? Before all this exploded TW were already using the women's bathroom, and for the most part there weren't any issues.

So what’s changed?  Trans women were already using women’s bathrooms without issue, but you object to trans women using women’s bathrooms?   

Quote
Now we've got Jessica Yaniv, who writes online about wanting to help 10yr old girls put their tampons in, taking selfies in the women's bathroom and no one can do anything about it because he identifies as a woman. Now a guy can just go into the women's bathroom without sneaking, without wearing a dress, and just claim to be a woman if anyone says anything.

So it’s about this arsehole? 



Why the fuck do you think that selfies are the problem, and not the pervert taking them in the women's bathroom?

Surely it’s about creepy and inappropriate behavior?  If someone is acting like a pervert, that’s not acceptable.  If they are just using the toilet, sink, etc.  then it’s fine.


Of course you think it's fine.  ::)
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #137 on: January 28, 2021, 09:17:54 AM »
Now you're being homophobic.

Why do you think a 10yr old is too young to use a toilet unsupervised? They're old enough to wipe their own asses.

Why the fuck do you think that selfies are the problem, and not the pervert taking them in the women's bathroom?

We aren't talking about Biden's executive order right now. There's nothing about bathrooms in his EO, but it will allow self ID when it comes to any institution that receives federal funding. You can already walk into women's bathrooms and claim to be a TW, it already happens.

How am I being homophobic?

I think a 10yr old can wipe their own ass.  I also think if you are concerned about them being accosted by strangers in bathrooms about tampons then you shouldn't send them in unsupervised.

So how do you tell the difference between an acceptable selfie and a pervert taking one?  Are all trans people perverts?  'Real' women can't be perverts? 

I can walk into a bathroom and claim to be intersex, are they going to pull my pants down and check?  Again, why is this a problem for trans or intersex but not lesbian perverts?

Because you think there's no difference between a man and a lesbian.

I shouldn't have to be concerned about a 10yr old being accosted by a pervert in the bathroom. Self ID gives the perverts a free pass. It's weird you are more angry at women wanting to keep children safe, than you are at men wanting to perv in the bathroom.

We've already gone over this. The issue isn't taking a selfie, but the perverts in the women's taking them.

Why would you need to claim to be intersex? Why do you keep bringing intersex into a conversation about trans? Why do you keep being homophobic?

You shouldn't have to be worried about a 10yr old being accosted, that is true. But this is the real world and it happens.

Why are you only concerned about trans doing the accosting and not lesbians? Or bisexual women? Or straight women serial killers? Or men in disguise? Or other children?

You brought up selfies being a problem. If taking selfies in bathrooms is the problem deal with it, don't just arbitrarily declare that trans taking selfies is bad but everyone else is allowed.

This is a very simple concept I am trying to get across here... that ANYONE can be a pervert and do bad things. So to just accuse one group of it is being homophobic, not me.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #138 on: January 28, 2021, 09:26:46 AM »
Lesbians are women, they are female. They have the same crime stats as other females. I do not know what makes you think they are as likely as men to be child molesters other than you are homophobic.

I did not bring up selfies being a problem. You are a moron.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #139 on: January 28, 2021, 10:00:28 AM »
Lesbians are women, they are female. They have the same crime stats as other females. I do not know what makes you think they are as likely as men to be child molesters other than you are homophobic.

I did not bring up selfies being a problem. You are a moron.

I find it funny you are accusing me of homophobia when you are the one saying trans need to be kept out of bathrooms because they are going to serial rape everyone and you think most of them are just kinky perverts doing it for fun.

What exactly are you trying to say here? That women should get a free pass because they don't commit sexual crimes as often as men (which I'm not going to argue just to keep things simple) and so nobody should care if women molest or harm children?

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #140 on: January 28, 2021, 10:06:01 AM »
I find it funny that you think all your lesbian and intersex fantasies are relevant to this conversation.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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markjo

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #141 on: January 28, 2021, 10:13:18 AM »
I find it funny that people think that sex and gender are the same thing.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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JJA

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #142 on: January 28, 2021, 10:20:02 AM »
I find it funny that you think all your lesbian and intersex fantasies are relevant to this conversation.

If that's your way of asking to end this conversation, fine by me.

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #143 on: January 28, 2021, 10:29:39 AM »
Yes, anyone can sneak into the women's bathroom, but now we haven't got the right to kick the perverts out. Do you not see the difference? Before all this exploded TW were already using the women's bathroom, and for the most part there weren't any issues.

So what’s changed?  Trans women were already using women’s bathrooms without issue, but you object to trans women using women’s bathrooms?   

Quote
Now we've got Jessica Yaniv, who writes online about wanting to help 10yr old girls put their tampons in, taking selfies in the women's bathroom and no one can do anything about it because he identifies as a woman. Now a guy can just go into the women's bathroom without sneaking, without wearing a dress, and just claim to be a woman if anyone says anything.

So it’s about this arsehole? 



Why the fuck do you think that selfies are the problem, and not the pervert taking them in the women's bathroom?

Surely it’s about creepy and inappropriate behavior?  If someone is acting like a pervert, that’s not acceptable.  If they are just using the toilet, sink, etc.  then it’s fine.


Of course you think it's fine.  ::)

Great response, that really clarified your position.  You said the trans women already use women’s toilets without issue, but you apparently don’t want self identified trans women to use women’s toilet.  I don’t think anyone is checking IDs anyway, so I see little practical difference.

And why the “of course”, eye roll?  Do you know much more about me than what I’ve revealed here?

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #144 on: January 28, 2021, 11:38:28 AM »
Yes, anyone can sneak into the women's bathroom, but now we haven't got the right to kick the perverts out. Do you not see the difference? Before all this exploded TW were already using the women's bathroom, and for the most part there weren't any issues.

So what’s changed?  Trans women were already using women’s bathrooms without issue, but you object to trans women using women’s bathrooms?   

Quote
Now we've got Jessica Yaniv, who writes online about wanting to help 10yr old girls put their tampons in, taking selfies in the women's bathroom and no one can do anything about it because he identifies as a woman. Now a guy can just go into the women's bathroom without sneaking, without wearing a dress, and just claim to be a woman if anyone says anything.

So it’s about this arsehole? 



Why the fuck do you think that selfies are the problem, and not the pervert taking them in the women's bathroom?

Surely it’s about creepy and inappropriate behavior?  If someone is acting like a pervert, that’s not acceptable.  If they are just using the toilet, sink, etc.  then it’s fine.


Of course you think it's fine.  ::)

Great response, that really clarified your position.  You said the trans women already use women’s toilets without issue, but you apparently don’t want self identified trans women to use women’s toilet.  I don’t think anyone is checking IDs anyway, so I see little practical difference.

And why the “of course”, eye roll?  Do you know much more about me than what I’ve revealed here?

Because it seems you didn't bother to read the thread. I'm not going to repeat all the posts I've already made on this.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

?

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #145 on: January 28, 2021, 01:28:47 PM »
Yes, anyone can sneak into the women's bathroom, but now we haven't got the right to kick the perverts out. Do you not see the difference? Before all this exploded TW were already using the women's bathroom, and for the most part there weren't any issues.

So what’s changed?  Trans women were already using women’s bathrooms without issue, but you object to trans women using women’s bathrooms?   

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Now we've got Jessica Yaniv, who writes online about wanting to help 10yr old girls put their tampons in, taking selfies in the women's bathroom and no one can do anything about it because he identifies as a woman. Now a guy can just go into the women's bathroom without sneaking, without wearing a dress, and just claim to be a woman if anyone says anything.

So it’s about this arsehole? 



Why the fuck do you think that selfies are the problem, and not the pervert taking them in the women's bathroom?

Surely it’s about creepy and inappropriate behavior?  If someone is acting like a pervert, that’s not acceptable.  If they are just using the toilet, sink, etc.  then it’s fine.


Of course you think it's fine.  ::)

Great response, that really clarified your position.  You said the trans women already use women’s toilets without issue, but you apparently don’t want self identified trans women to use women’s toilet.  I don’t think anyone is checking IDs anyway, so I see little practical difference.

And why the “of course”, eye roll?  Do you know much more about me than what I’ve revealed here?

Because it seems you didn't bother to read the thread. I'm not going to repeat all the posts I've already made on this.

I read it, and just reread it to be sure (unfortunately).

Nothing seems to answer my question.  You say that trans women were already using women’s toilets without issue, but now apparently it’s a massive issue.  Why?  Are there suddenly hoards of pervy men pretending to be trans?  Is this a real problem in the US?  Seriously, I’m not from your country, I’m asking questions.

In the UK, being trans is gradually becoming more accepted, although they are still behind gay and lesbians on that front.  They certainly run the risk of having the living shit kicked out of them if they run into the wrong crowd.  So I’m all for protecting their rights.

I fully agree that trans rights have to balanced against women’s, and we shouldn’t compromise safety by rushing through ill thought out laws.  However, it’s not clear to me how much of a real problem there is, and how much is just a massive social media bust up between two groups slagging each other off?

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #146 on: January 28, 2021, 02:27:52 PM »
Yes, anyone can sneak into the women's bathroom, but now we haven't got the right to kick the perverts out. Do you not see the difference? Before all this exploded TW were already using the women's bathroom, and for the most part there weren't any issues.

So what’s changed?  Trans women were already using women’s bathrooms without issue, but you object to trans women using women’s bathrooms?   

Quote
Now we've got Jessica Yaniv, who writes online about wanting to help 10yr old girls put their tampons in, taking selfies in the women's bathroom and no one can do anything about it because he identifies as a woman. Now a guy can just go into the women's bathroom without sneaking, without wearing a dress, and just claim to be a woman if anyone says anything.

So it’s about this arsehole? 



Why the fuck do you think that selfies are the problem, and not the pervert taking them in the women's bathroom?

Surely it’s about creepy and inappropriate behavior?  If someone is acting like a pervert, that’s not acceptable.  If they are just using the toilet, sink, etc.  then it’s fine.


Of course you think it's fine.  ::)

Great response, that really clarified your position.  You said the trans women already use women’s toilets without issue, but you apparently don’t want self identified trans women to use women’s toilet.  I don’t think anyone is checking IDs anyway, so I see little practical difference.

And why the “of course”, eye roll?  Do you know much more about me than what I’ve revealed here?

Someone with genuine dysphoria is more likely to physically transition and come closer to "passing" so they might not even get noticed using female spaces whereas twitter etc. is full of self-ID transwomen with beards who of course are going to be noticed. That's the difference. If someone passes at a quick glance then we won't notice and therefore won't care, there's no issues, but when someone who looks entirely male enters a female space we do notice and we do care.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #147 on: January 28, 2021, 03:42:27 PM »
Okay, Unconvinced, I really thought you just jumped on the last post without bothering to follow the thread.

There are a lot of pervy men identifying as women now. In your country too! Seriously, have you not heard about the massive fight women in the UK have put up against all this? It's in the news over there all the time. 

White trans women are the safest demographic, they're not any more likely to have the shit kicked out of them than white women are. Black trans women in the US are at higher risk of being murdered because they are more likely to be in the sex trade.  The propagandists use the statistics of Brazil to make it seem like trans women in the UK, US, and Canada are always in imminent danger.

The laws do need to be made carefully, and that is the biggest issue most of us have with all of this. They don't take the time to consider how any of this will affect women. They don't even stop to clearly define the language. Language is pretty important when it comes to the law, and right now the definition of woman is anyone who identifies as a woman. It is circular.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #148 on: January 28, 2021, 10:25:55 PM »
I find it funny that people think that sex and gender are the same thing.

Indeed. I also find it funny when people seem to think personality (being more masculine or more feminine or varying between them) affects whether you are a man or a woman. What would be best would be if society stopped ascribing masculinity to males and femininity to females, children stop teasing little boys that like to play with dolls etc. stop sexualising girls the moment they reach puberty (because that's a very good reason for a girl not to want to be a girl any more, or want to avoid puberty hence blockers). It would help a lot with social causes of feeling uncomfortable and at odds with your sex. Won't help with actual dysphoria though as that's about the body.
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Re: The Great Gender Bender Debate
« Reply #149 on: January 29, 2021, 06:22:40 AM »
I find it funny that people think that sex and gender are the same thing.

Indeed. I also find it funny when people seem to think personality (being more masculine or more feminine or varying between them) affects whether you are a man or a woman. What would be best would be if society stopped ascribing masculinity to males and femininity to females, children stop teasing little boys that like to play with dolls etc. stop sexualising girls the moment they reach puberty (because that's a very good reason for a girl not to want to be a girl any more, or want to avoid puberty hence blockers). It would help a lot with social causes of feeling uncomfortable and at odds with your sex. Won't help with actual dysphoria though as that's about the body.

I have to agree it would be great if we could just get rid of gender roles entirely.  Men can want to look pretty and women can want to look like a tough gangster.  We are kind of there, but a long long way to go.

Wearing dresses wouldn't help with extreme cases of dysphoria but I bet it would be all that was needed for people with mild versions.

I was brought up with the whole "Real men don't cry" and even to this day I have to remind myself a woman isn't going to look at me with disgust if I admit a movie made me feel an emotion.