NASA EPIC LIES

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rvlvr

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #660 on: June 28, 2020, 05:11:59 AM »
You seem quite unable to show any evidence of NASA's lies? It is like you have realized you have been wrong, but, dammit, will not admit defeat!

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rabinoz

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #661 on: June 28, 2020, 05:12:56 AM »
So what does this have to do with "NASA EPIC LIES"?

The dawn of Copernicanism faced mankind with a revolution in human thinking unsurpassed by any single event, save Noah’s flood and the advent of Jesus Christ. As Alexander Koyré understood it:

The dissolution of the Cosmos…this seems to me to be the most profound revolution achieved or suffered by the human mind since the invention of the Cosmos by the Greeks. It is a revolution so profound and so far-reaching that mankind – with very few exceptions, of whom Pascal was one – for centuries did not grasp its bearing and its meaning; which, even now, is often misvalued and misunderstood. Therefore what the founders of modern science, among them Galileo ,had to do, was not to criticize and to combat certain faulty theories, and to correct or to replace them by better ones. They had to do something quite different. They had to destroy one world and to replace it by another. They had to reshape the framework of our intellect itself, to restate and reform its concepts, to evolve a new approach to Being, anew concept of knowledge, a new concept of science – and even to replace a pretty natural approach, that of common sense, by another which is not natural at all.
That is a total exaggeration!
The heliocentric solar system was introduced simply because the old Ptolemaic universe was finally seen to have been completely impossible.
But the Ptolemaic universe was not immediately discarded and the Copernican one introduced. In fact as far as the accuracy of the motion of the planets was concerned the Copernican one was no better that the old Ptolemaic universe.

Correct.

The De revolutionibus itself is not consistent with the single surviving early version of the system, described by Copernicus in the early manuscript Commentariolus. Even Copernicus could not derive from his hypothesis a single and unique combination of interlocking circles, and his successors did not do so…Judged on purely practical grounds, Copernicus’ new planetary system was a failure; it was neither more accurate nor significantly simpler than its Ptolemaic predecessors.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The Copernican system is not a discovery…but a last attempt to patch up an out-dated machinery by reversing the arrangement of its wheels. As a modern historian put it, the fact that the Earth moves is “almost an incidental matter in the system of Copernicus which, viewed geometrically, is just the old Ptolemaic pattern of the skies, with one or two wheels interchanged and one or two of them taken out.”

Why do you keep on about the Copernican system? It was shown to be quite inaccurate because it still insisted on perfect circles.
It took Kepler and then Newton to show that the planetary orbits were almost elliptical.

But according to Newton's Laws, the smaller planets could not orbit the much more massive Sun thought it wasn't until Bradley and Bessel that there was experimental evidence for this.

But what is so telling is that you and flat Earthers have to claim that numerous people are lying to us about space missions even though these are now performed by numerous independent countries.

What motive would all of these space agencies have to lie?
Satellites have been launched by such disparate countries as the old USSR and now Russia, the USA, France, India, North and South Korea and China?

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Phases of Venus

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #662 on: June 28, 2020, 06:38:39 AM »
please supply meanings similar "to deceive" for the rest of these space agencies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_space_agencies

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cikljamas

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #663 on: June 28, 2020, 09:09:34 AM »
Correct.

The De revolutionibus itself is not consistent with the single surviving early version of the system, described by Copernicus in the early manuscript Commentariolus. Even Copernicus could not derive from his hypothesis a single and unique combination of interlocking circles, and his successors did not do so…Judged on purely practical grounds, Copernicus’ new planetary system was a failure; it was neither more accurate nor significantly simpler than its Ptolemaic predecessors.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The Copernican system is not a discovery…but a last attempt to patch up an out-dated machinery by reversing the arrangement of its wheels. As a modern historian put it, the fact that the Earth moves is “almost an incidental matter in the system of Copernicus which, viewed geometrically, is just the old Ptolemaic pattern of the skies, with one or two wheels interchanged and one or two of them taken out.”

Why do you keep on about the Copernican system? It was shown to be quite inaccurate because it still insisted on perfect circles.
It took Kepler and then Newton to show that the planetary orbits were almost elliptical.

Kepler, although a Lutheran, was influenced by the occult, as was his mother, Katherina Kepler, and the latter’s endeavor may have led to her trial as a witch. Following his philosophy, Kepler’s main motivation for bringing the sun into the center of the planetary system, as had Copernicus before him, was that he considered it worthy of symbolic deification. In one passage he describes the sun as: “Who alone appears, by virtue of his dignity and power, suited…and worthy to become the home of God himself, not to say the first mover.”

 Similar to Copernicus, Kepler was also influenced by Greek thought, and in particular the Pythagorean concept of the harmony of the spheres. Using the idea of harmonic ratios, Kepler developed his third law of motion wherein the cube of a planet’s orbital period is proportional to the square of its distance from the sun. Kepler believed that even God was subject to these “harmonic” laws and had no other choice than to make the solar system by them. At one point Kepler attributes divinity to geometry, stating: “Geometry, coeternal with the divine mind before the origin of things, God himself (for what is there in God that is not God himself) has supplied God with the examples for the creation of the world.” --- Kepler’s Witch, James A. Connor, 2004, pp. 275-307. The Sleepwalkers, pp. 389-393. The woman relative who raised Katherina was executed for practicing witchcraft (John Lear, Kepler’s Dream, 1965, p. 31).

As noted earlier, in the course of his work Copernicus stumbled upon a geocentric system that did not use Ptolemaic epicycles, but he rejected that system because it did not incorporate the crystal spheres of the Greeks. But Copernicus’trash became Tycho Brahe’s treasure. Brahe, through his discovery in 1577 of a comet, proved there were no crystal spheres in outer space, since a comet circling the sun would have crashed into the spheres. There was no more excuse to reject the geocentric alternative. Copernicus’ objection had now been answered and Tycho returned to the immobile earth with a revolving sun. Geometrically, all was sound. Everything that Copernicus’ system could do, Brahe’s could do, except the sun and the earth were switched.

One historical note of interest is that on his deathbed Brahe asked Kepler to use his forty-years of planet-charting to support the geocentric system. Kepler fulfilled Brahe’s wishes but did so in his usual style – showing the three systems side-by-side (the Ptolemaic, Tychonic and Copernican). As Barbour notes: “Kepler immediately takes the opportunity to point out that, viewed in purely geometrical terms, the three forms are completely equivalent,” but Kepler believe she has “physical and dynamical” evidence of “the severe difficulties that the two rivals to Copernicus face.” As noted earlier, the only differences are that Kepler, for his model only, employs precise elliptical orbits (and, in particular, he halves Tycho’s eccentricity of the sun-earth circumference); and uses the “area law” so that the consequent improvements of planetary motion and speed favor him alone. If Kepler had done the same to Tycho’s or even a modified Ptolemaic model, the equivalence would not only be “geometric” but also “physical and dynamical.” Unfortunately, Barbour never mentions this fact in his review. Instead, he quotes Kepler as saying: “Thus, the house that we erected on the basis of the Tychonic observations we have now demolished with other observations of the same man.” In actuality, Kepler didn’t demolish anything except his chance to be honest with the application of the scientific data.

Regardless of Kepler’s motivations, Tycho Brahe’s system is its mirror image. Whatever improvements Kepler gave to his system were automatically true for Brahe’s, even if Kepler failed to apply them. In Brahe’s, the sun is in orbit around the Earth, while all the planets orbit the sun. In this way, all the distances,geometry and velocities of the heliocentric system are identical with the geocentric.

Even after Kepler’s modifications, anomalies regarding the motions of the heavenly bodies remained, and stubbornly so. Although geometrically speaking the orbits are not perfect circles, they are not perfect ellipses either, but precess at different rates and contain various eccentricities. Quoting Hoyle again:

The planetary orbits are not strictly ellipses, as we have so far taken them to be, because one planet disturbs the order of another through the gravitational force that it exerts….In all cases the orbits are nearly circles….It is curious that although the actual orbits do not differ in shape much from circles the errors of a circular model can nevertheless be quite large. Indeed, errors as large as this were quite unacceptable to Greek astronomers of the stature of Hipparchus and Ptolemy. It was this, rather than prejudice, which caused them to reject the simple heliocentric theory of Aristarchus….The Hipparchus theory grapples with the facts whereas the circular picture of Aristarchus fails to do so….The theory of Ptolemy, a few minor imperfections apart, worked correctly to the first order in explaining the planetary eccentricities.Copernicus with his heliocentric theory had to do at least as well as this, which meant that he had to produce something much better than the simple heliocentric picture of Aristarchus…. Kepler achieved improvements, but not complete success, and always at the expense of increasing complexity. Kepler and his successors might well have gone on in this style for generations without arriving at a satisfactory final solution, for a reason we now understand clearly. There is no simple mathematical expression for the way in which the direction of a planet – its heliocentric longitude – changes with time. Even today we must express the longitude as an infinite series of terms when we use time as the free variable. What Ptolemy, Copernicus, and Kepler, in his early long calculations, were trying to do was to discover by trial and error the terms of this series. Since the terms become more complicated as one goes to higher orders in the eccentricity, the task became successively harder and harder

Professor of celestial mechanics at Columbia University, Charles Lane Poor, says much the same:

From the time of Newton, it has been known that Kepler’s laws are mere approximations, computer’s fictions, handy mathematical devices for finding the approximate place of a planet in the heavens. They apply with greater accuracy to some planets than to others. Jupiter and Saturn show the greatest deviations from strictly elliptical motion. The latter body is often nearly a degree away from the place it would have been had its motion about the sun been strictly in accord with Kepler’s laws. This is such a large discrepancy that it can be detected by the unaided eye. The moon is approximately half a degree in diameter, so that the discrepancy in the motion of Saturn is about twice the apparent diameter of the moon. In a single year, during the course of one revolution about the sun, the Earth may depart from the theoretical ellipse by an amount sufficient to appreciably change the apparent place of the sun in the heavens.

Take a figure like Galileo, a contemporary of Kepler and one of the few other convinced Copernicans.
Does he embrace this work and integrate it with his own?  Not at all.
He largely ignores Kepler.
It is as though he is embarrassed by the extreme neo-Platonism
and harmony-mongering of his ‘ally’.  In addition he does not seem to have understood,
or have wanted to understand Kepler’s astronomy of non-circular motions.
 
What did professional astronomers do?  Well those who took Kepler at all seriously
tried to de-nature his results--as had been done early on with Copernicus. Most of these
workers were not Copernican anyway.  If  they were impressed by anything  it was  the
elliptical shape of the orbits. This was worth knowing, because  for  the  first  time one
could imagine the actual orbit in space.  So, and this will not surprise you, they
continued to use deferents and epicycles to model and predict the motions, but they
adjusted the machinery so that the path traced out would be an ellipse.
So much  for
Kepler’s new idea of a causal, celestial physics!

So the great vision is torn to pieces, not taken up whole by anyone. The only person to
bring it back together again to any degree is Newton in the later 17th century, not in
Kepler’s version, but in his own particular way, so that his version is not identical to
Kepler’s.
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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cikljamas

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #664 on: June 28, 2020, 09:12:51 AM »
please supply meanings similar "to deceive" for the rest of these space agencies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_space_agencies

It is worthy to note that the GPS system works on the basis of triangulation. In other words,
at least three (usually four) GPS satellites must simultaneously send/receive a signal to a precise
location on earth so that the computer can calculate distance and location for any given object by
using Pythagorean proportions. But this only strengthens our case against the GPS having to be
moving at supersonic speeds, since the difficulty of having three satellites maintaining that high
velocity, along with the necessary course corrections requiring the constant speeding up or
slowing down of the GPS, would be near impossible. An article from Physics Today (“Relativity
and the Global Positioning System”, May 2002) confirms this. It states: “Furthermore, because
none of the orbits is perfectly circular, a satellite speeds up or slows down to conserve angular
momentum as its distance from Earth varies along its orbit.”


I am going to quote from a few paragraphs in a recent article in Physics Today (May 2002) regarding how the GPS works. It reads:

In Earth’s neighborhood, the field equations of general relativity involve only a single overall time
variable. While there is freedom in the theory to make arbitrary coordinate transformations, the simplest
approach is to use an approximate solution of the field equations in which Earth’s mass gives rise to small
corrections to the simple Minkowski metric of special relativity, and to choose coordinate axes
originating at the planet’s center of mass and pointing toward fixed stars. In this Earth-centered inertial
(ECI) reference frame, one can safely ignore relativistic effects due to Thomas precession of LenseThirring drag...
(Physics Today, p. 42)

Did you catch that?! Let me translate for you. “General relativity allows the physicist to use all
kinds of fudge factors to account for the results he sees. [The major fudge factors are the
Fitzgerald Contraction and the Lorentz-transformation equations which allow you to change
time, length, distance and mass, in order to arrive at the answer you want, but we won’t get into
those right now]. But we are going to dispense with all those “arbitrary” transformations! We are
going to use the Earth as the inertial frame of reference! In other words, we’re going to pretend
that the Earth is standing still to figure out how the GPS works, and we can do so because the
Lense-Thirring results said we could!”

In other words, this scientist, although believing that the Earth rotates against the stars, says that
it is easier to do his calculations based on a fixed Earth, and that he can do so because a fixed
Earth produces the same results as one that rotates against fixed stars! How deceiving for the
layman! He is told that scientists are going to use a fixed-Earth model of the solar system for all
his satellite and rocket ship launches, yet he writes in all his textbooks that the earth IS rotating
and that there is no way it could be fixed. Give me a break!

Later in the same article he says much the same thing:

Generally, however, the transmissions arrive at different times. The navigation messages then let the
receiver compute the position of each transmission event in the Earth-fixed WGS-84 frame. Before
equations can be solved to find the receiver’s location, the satellite positions must be transformed to a
common Earth-centered inertial frame, since light propagates in a straight line only in an inertial frame...

(Ibid., 45).

In other words, calculating the GPS position cannot be solved using HIS equations; rather, he
must use equations that are based on a stationary earth that is inertial. Why? Well, he had already
told us in an earlier paragraph that “the principle of constancy of “c” [the speed of light] cannot
be applied in a rotating reference frame, where the paths of light rays are not straight, they
spiral” (p. 44). So rather than admit that his Relativity theory does not really answer the question
of light traveling in a rotating frame of reference, he just borrows from Earth-fixed inertial
equations, and no one is the wiser.
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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JJA

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #665 on: June 28, 2020, 09:37:52 AM »
please supply meanings similar "to deceive" for the rest of these space agencies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_space_agencies

It is worthy to note that the GPS system works on the basis of triangulation. In other words,
at least three (usually four) GPS satellites must simultaneously send/receive a signal to a precise
location on earth so that the computer can calculate distance and location for any given object by
using Pythagorean proportions. But this only strengthens our case against the GPS having to be
moving at supersonic speeds, since the difficulty of having three satellites maintaining that high
velocity, along with the necessary course corrections requiring the constant speeding up or
slowing down of the GPS, would be near impossible. An article from Physics Today (“Relativity
and the Global Positioning System”, May 2002) confirms this. It states: “Furthermore, because
none of the orbits is perfectly circular, a satellite speeds up or slows down to conserve angular
momentum as its distance from Earth varies along its orbit.”


Well, you should tell the billions of people using GPS every day that it doesn't work.

I don't know how we could have missed that all this time.  I guess everyone that used a GPS to navigate just got lucky.

Note... GPS satellites only send signals to a receiver, they don't get anything back.

Also... GPS satellites are not performing "course corrections" in their orbits.  Do you think the text you quoted means they are accelerating and slowing down with rockets or something?  ::)

What is it with Flat Earthers and you Geocentric folk that keep insisting GPS doesn't work.  It works fine.  You HAVE to know this, right?  Have you ever used one?

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cikljamas

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #666 on: June 28, 2020, 02:21:49 PM »
What is it with Flat Earthers and you Geocentric folk that keep insisting GPS doesn't work.  It works fine.  You HAVE to know this, right?  Have you ever used one?
We don't say GPS doesn't work, we say something else :
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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JJA

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #667 on: June 28, 2020, 02:41:08 PM »
What is it with Flat Earthers and you Geocentric folk that keep insisting GPS doesn't work.  It works fine.  You HAVE to know this, right?  Have you ever used one?
We don't say GPS doesn't work, we say something else :

You are as big of a troll as the guy's videos you keep stealing.  You know he's making fun of you, don't you?

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rabinoz

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #668 on: June 28, 2020, 02:43:05 PM »
What is it with Flat Earthers and you Geocentric folk that keep insisting GPS doesn't work.  It works fine.  You HAVE to know this, right?  Have you ever used one?
We don't say GPS doesn't work, we say something else :

Irrelevant to the question of "How do any of the Global Satellite Navigation Systems work if satellites are not possible?"

Now, answer the question asked!

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JackBlack

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #669 on: June 28, 2020, 03:55:56 PM »
GPS
You sure do love avoiding the topic and making arguments which apply equally to a geocentric or HC solar system.

GPS has no bearing on if the crew of Challenger are still alive as you claim, or if they are dead as all the available evidence indicates.

Do you have anything to substantiate your claim regarding your baseless claims?
Or can you only deflect from this baseless claim of yours?

As for GPS why does it matter if Earth is moving or not?
You still have the issue of non circular orbits and so on.

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rabinoz

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #670 on: June 28, 2020, 04:52:38 PM »
GPS
You sure do love avoiding the topic and making arguments which apply equally to a geocentric or HC solar system.
Cikljamas doesn't believe that rockets can work in space hence according to him no satellites or space missions are possible.
So every space agency is lying to us. In that regard he's no better than most flat Earthers.

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cikljamas

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #671 on: June 29, 2020, 07:44:28 AM »
Now, here’s another paragraph from the same article in Physics Today:

In the equation 3, the leading contribution to the gravitational potential Theta is the simple Newtonian
term GM/r. The picture is Earth-centered, and it neglects the presence of other Solar-system bodies such
as the Moon and Sun. That they can be neglected by an observer sufficiently close to Earth is a
manifestation of general relativity’s equivalence principle.
(Ibid., p. 43)

This is interesting. Even though scientists believe that the earth is kept in its orbit around the sun
due to the sun’s strong gravitational pull, and that the tides on earth are caused by the strong
gravitational pull of the moon, this scientist claims that such forces can be neglected when
sending up satellites. Oh really? If the moon can pull on the earth’s water with such tremendous
force, how is it that it can’t pull on a satellite that is 22,000 miles closer to the moon than it is to
the earth?

Notice also that he again makes reference to the “Earth-centered” frame of reference. How can
he do so this time? Because he has commandeered “general relativity’s equivalence principle.”
What is the equivalence principle? It’s the principle that allows them to change frames of
reference at will; whatever one suits them will be fine. It says, for example, that, if you fall to the
ground, you can’t tell whether you fell toward the ground or the ground came up and hit you.
Both are “equivalent,” and in a universe with only relative motion, not inertial motion, one
cannot prove one proposition over the other. Do you see how much absurdity is created when
you deny that the Earth is fixed? One can say that the Earth hit him, not that he fell to the
ground! We put people in insane asylums for less than that!

How does this benefit the author of the Physics Today article? Well, by the principle of
equivalence, he can discount all the forces he knows to be in the solar system and beyond, and
then transfer all those supposed forces as if they were forces coming from the Earth only, and
thus his math works! The author then refers to another anomaly he can’t explain between Relativity and the GPS.
He writes:

One of the most confusing relativistic effects - the Sagnac effect - appears in rotating reference frames.
(See Physics Today, October 1981, page 20)....Observers in the non-rotating ECI inertial frame would not
see a Sagnac effect. Instead, they would see that receivers are moving while a signal is
propagating...Correcting for the Sagnac effect in the Earth-fixed frame is equivalent to correcting for such
receiver motion in the ECI frame...


Yes, the author is right. It is “confusing.” Unfortunately for him, the reason it is “confusing” is
that Relativity has never explained the Sagnac effect, found by Georges Sagnac in 1913, nor its
follow up experimental verification performed by Michelson-Gale-Pearson in 1925. In fact,
according to Dean Turner in The Einstein Myth and the Ives Papers, he writes: “I pause to note
that one may scan Einstein’s writings in vain to find mention of the Sagnac or Michelson-Gale
experiments. The same can be said of general physics textbooks and of the 1971 McGraw-Hill
Encyclopedia of Science and Technology... Such an oversight in these distinguished
encyclopedias constitutes a stinging indictment of professional scientific reporting” (p. 44). Why
were they not mentioned in Einstein’s writings? Simple. Because they give experimental
evidence for the falsity of Relativity theory. Einstein not only did this with Sagnac and
Michelson-Gale, he also did it with Joos, Ives, Miller, Kennedy-Thorndike, and many other
scientists who questioned or rejected his theory.

What is the Sagnac effect? It is the result of an experiment that showed the earth to be in some
type of movement against another substance. The “movement” is termed “rotation” and the
substance is some aether-type medium that scientists had discarded when Einstein developed his
Relativity in 1905. (Thus, we can see why Einstein would have ignored Sagnac’s results). But
although Einstein neglected its results, other scientists did not, including the author of the article
in Physics Today (May 2002). How does the author account for the Sagnac effect? By using the
same Relativistic “transformations” that he told us he wasn’t going to use in a previous
paragraph! This is what he writes:

The Sagnac effect also occurs if an atomic clock is moved slowly from one reference station on the
ground to another...Observers at rest on the ground, seeing these same asymmetric effects, attribute them
instead to gravitomagnetic effects – that is to say, the warping of space-time due to spacetime terms in the
general-relativistic metric tensor...
(Ibid., p. 44).

Clear as mud, right? This is the kind of ‘begging the question’ mumbo-jumbo you see often in
theoretical physics of the Relativity variety. What he just said, in case you missed it is, although
Relativity cannot account for the Sagnac effect, we are still going to attribute the discrepancies in
GPS calculations to Relativistic effects, namely, the warping of “spacetime due to spacetime
terms in the general-relativistic metric tensor.” You see, he is locked into a system that doesn’t
give him the answers he needs, but since he doesn’t want to admit that they could all be
answered by assuming a stationary earth and a revolving aether-type medium, then he will
continue to push Relativity as the answer; and all his readers will bob their heads up and down
and confirm his gospel, as they have done since 1905.

The author more or less admits the effects of these unanswered questions when in one of his final
paragraphs he writes: “Historically, there has been much confusion about properly accounting
for relativistic effects. And it is almost impossible to discover how different manufacturers go
about it!”


Ah, yes, and now we can see why there is so much confusion, because no one knows what the
heck they are doing! They know their Relativity equations are just fudge factors to explain the
things they simply cannot understand under the scenario of a moving earth. Yet they have the
audacity to borrow non-moving or “Earth-fixed” equations in order to give the appearance that
an Earth in Relativity works!

The difference between the Geocentric and Heliocentric concept is important, for one of the major flaws
in modern heliocentric theory is the failure to account for the effect of the stars on all the motions we see.
Modern science has virtually dismissed the effect of forces from the stars, and instead has based
its solar cosmology almost entirely on the so-called “centrifugal effects” created by the planets in motion.
But this is inevitable, since once you posit that the stars are “fixed” (as modern cosmology does) then the
only thing you have left to determine why solar and terrestrial objects move in the rotational
paths they do is by the supposed centrifugal effect. And thus, all of the modern heliocentric
physics seeking to understand rotational motion is based on a fictitious force, which is not very
comforting for anyone wishing to have solid answers for why things work the way they do.

Geocentric motion - Awesome CG animation :
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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JJA

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #672 on: June 29, 2020, 08:39:47 AM »
Now, here’s another paragraph from the same article in Physics Today:

In the equation 3, the leading contribution to the gravitational potential Theta is the simple Newtonian
term GM/r. The picture is Earth-centered, and it neglects the presence of other Solar-system bodies such
as the Moon and Sun. That they can be neglected by an observer sufficiently close to Earth is a
manifestation of general relativity’s equivalence principle.
(Ibid., p. 43)

This is interesting. Even though scientists believe that the earth is kept in its orbit around the sun
due to the sun’s strong gravitational pull, and that the tides on earth are caused by the strong
gravitational pull of the moon, this scientist claims that such forces can be neglected when
sending up satellites. Oh really? If the moon can pull on the earth’s water with such tremendous
force, how is it that it can’t pull on a satellite that is 22,000 miles closer to the moon than it is to
the earth?

Yes, it's an interesting question most children, and even adults think of when told the Moon pulls the oceans.

Most people then look up the answer, they don't just decide they alone are the smartest person in the world and declare gravity a lie.  ::)

Here. Read. You can Google more answers too, it's easy.

https://www.quora.com/Should-we-feel-lighter-at-night-because-of-the-moon-Given-that-the-moons-gravity-can-pull-water-up-and-so-create-tides-does-this-affect-us

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Unconvinced

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #673 on: June 29, 2020, 12:40:27 PM »
Geocentric motion - Awesome CG animation :


Very pretty, but why do all the other planets orbit the sun, and in turn everything orbits the Earth?  What are the forces governing this motion?

Also, a 2D view looking down on the ecliptic doesn’t show the  unexplained motion of the sun and planets bouncing up and down with the seasons.  Amongst a whole lot of other things that make no physical sense on the geocentric model.

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JJA

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #674 on: June 29, 2020, 01:01:01 PM »
Geocentric motion - Awesome CG animation :


Very pretty, but why do all the other planets orbit the sun, and in turn everything orbits the Earth?  What are the forces governing this motion?

Also, a 2D view looking down on the ecliptic doesn’t show the  unexplained motion of the sun and planets bouncing up and down with the seasons.  Amongst a whole lot of other things that make no physical sense on the geocentric model.

LOL.  The force you are looking for is that cikljamas is a liar.

That's not a Geocentric model, it's a Heliocentric model with the camera locked onto Earth.  You can see the web page right in the video.

Here, let me do the same with the simulator I use, Universe Sandbox.  Lets see, target the camera to Earth, set trail center to Earth, run for a minutes, presto!



Wow!  A Geocentric solar system!  Not really.  Just cik misrepresenting, and stealing more videos, as usual.
 



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SomeDutchGuy

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #675 on: June 29, 2020, 01:54:07 PM »
I have been ignoring this topic for a while since I didn't want anything to do with people being e-mailed. But I can't help my curiosity. Can anybody update me on where we are with the astronauts being alive? Is that taken care of now? I know, it's probably in here somewhere but then I have to scroll through the 18 or so pages I have not kept up with.

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JJA

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #676 on: June 29, 2020, 02:38:00 PM »
I have been ignoring this topic for a while since I didn't want anything to do with people being e-mailed. But I can't help my curiosity. Can anybody update me on where we are with the astronauts being alive? Is that taken care of now? I know, it's probably in here somewhere but then I have to scroll through the 18 or so pages I have not kept up with.

They died in the explosion, and are still dead.  Snopes tore apart this terrible conspiracy theory five years ago. 

cikljamas continues to post random clips from YouTube he finds and copes into his channel that have nothing to do with the Challenger subject.   And copy-paste huge quotes from random people as well.

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JackBlack

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #677 on: June 29, 2020, 03:05:02 PM »
Now, here’s another paragraph from the same article in Physics Today:
Which still in no way justifies your wild claims regarding Challenger.

When will you get to that?

I have been ignoring this topic for a while since I didn't want anything to do with people being e-mailed. But I can't help my curiosity. Can anybody update me on where we are with the astronauts being alive? Is that taken care of now? I know, it's probably in here somewhere but then I have to scroll through the 18 or so pages I have not kept up with.
So far the closest we have come to addressing it is that he claims that there actually were 2 Judy Resniks, but that both have been presented as the same NASA astronaut.

But unable to justify his wild claims he continues to spam off topic garbage.

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rabinoz

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #678 on: June 29, 2020, 04:58:17 PM »
Now, here’s another paragraph from the same article in Physics Today:

In the equation 3, the leading contribution to the gravitational potential Theta is the simple Newtonian
term GM/r. The picture is Earth-centered, and it neglects the presence of other Solar-system bodies such
as the Moon and Sun. That they can be neglected by an observer sufficiently close to Earth is a
manifestation of general relativity’s equivalence principle.
(Ibid., p. 43)

This is interesting. Even though scientists believe that the earth is kept in its orbit around the sun
due to the sun’s strong gravitational pull, and that the tides on earth are caused by the strong
gravitational pull of the moon, this scientist claims that such forces can be neglected when
sending up satellites. Oh really? If the moon can pull on the earth’s water with such tremendous
force, how is it that it can’t pull on a satellite that is 22,000 miles closer to the moon than it is to
the earth?

Notice also that he again makes reference to the “Earth-centered” frame of reference. How can
he do so this time? Because he has commandeered “general relativity’s equivalence principle.”
What is the equivalence principle? It’s the principle that allows them to change frames of
reference at will; whatever one suits them will be fine. It says, for example, that, if you fall to the
ground, you can’t tell whether you fell toward the ground or the ground came up and hit you.
Both are “equivalent,” and in a universe with only relative motion, not inertial motion, one
cannot prove one proposition over the other.
A person in a gravitational field is not in an inertial frame of reference and in General Relativity gravity is equivalent to an acceleration in spacetime.

Quote from: cikljamas
Do you see how much absurdity is created when
you deny that the Earth is fixed? One can say that the Earth hit him, not that he fell to the
ground! We put people in insane asylums for less than that!
What is absurd about it? Your arguments fall flat anywhere outside the Earth, for example on the Moon or even in the ISS.

In other words, you have no idea what you are talking about - we knew that long ago!

Sure,"It says, for example, that, if you fall to the ground, you can’t tell whether you fell toward the ground or the ground came up and hit you. Both are “equivalent,” and in a universe with only relative motion, not inertial motion, one
cannot prove one proposition over the other.

Both might be “equivalent” to the person falling but that person is NOT in "inertial motion".

Inertial motion, meaning no acceleration, might be purely relative but nothing in General Relativity non-inertial is certainly not purely relative.

This means that absolute acceleration (both linear and circular) can be measured.

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Smoke Machine

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #679 on: June 29, 2020, 06:39:52 PM »
I have been ignoring this topic for a while since I didn't want anything to do with people being e-mailed. But I can't help my curiosity. Can anybody update me on where we are with the astronauts being alive? Is that taken care of now? I know, it's probably in here somewhere but then I have to scroll through the 18 or so pages I have not kept up with.

Just to recap, cikljamas emailed professor Michael Smith.

              **  Spoiler Alert ***
Professor Michael Smith hasn't returned email, to cikljamas.


                *** Spoiler Alert  ***
As such, cikljamas delusion of Michael Smith being an astronaut, has been reinforced.

I wrote an email for professor Smith and Dick Scobee, but wisely, saner heads prevailed and I didn't send them at the last second. (Sorry, cikljamas, couldn't do it pal.)

I used a face comparison app which rated the doppelgangers very poorly against the challenger astronauts, but cikljamas chose wisely not to make comment. (Well, if you'd spent hundreds of hours of your life daydreaming about dead astronauts being alive, would you want to find out you've been a total goose?)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 06:55:41 PM by Smoke Machine »
For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

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cikljamas

  • 2466
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  • Ex nihilo nihil fit
Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #680 on: June 30, 2020, 01:41:57 AM »
Do you see how much absurdity is created when
you deny that the Earth is fixed? One can say that the Earth hit him, not that he fell to the
ground! We put people in insane asylums for less than that!
What is absurd about it? Your arguments fall flat anywhere outside the Earth, for example on the Moon or even in the ISS.

In other words, you have no idea what you are talking about - we knew that long ago!

Sure,"It says, for example, that, if you fall to the ground, you can’t tell whether you fell toward the ground or the ground came up and hit you. Both are “equivalent,” and in a universe with only relative motion, not inertial motion, one
cannot prove one proposition over the other.

You can apply that idiotic einsteinian logic to one specially idiotic version of flat earth theory, but how could it work on a big round ball? In your einsteinian scenario, the earth goes up, we in Europe stay on the ground, but what happens to you guys in Australia? Maybe you haven't seen this video yet :
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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Smoke Machine

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #681 on: June 30, 2020, 01:47:42 AM »
Cikljamas, why are you offering up this pathetic indian comedian, to make a point? By the way, what point are you trying to make? You aren't even a flat earther, so what does this comedy act have in common with
your ball earth beliefs?

Get back to to the challenger astronauts.
For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

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cikljamas

  • 2466
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  • Ex nihilo nihil fit
Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #682 on: June 30, 2020, 02:05:27 AM »
Cikljamas, why are you offering up this pathetic indian comedian, to make a point? By the way, what point are you trying to make? You aren't even a flat earther, so what does this comedy act have in common with
your ball earth beliefs?

Get back to to the challenger astronauts.

Don't tell me that you didn't understand the question? So, why don't you answer it? Unlike Rabinoz and your friends on this forum , our fabulous indian comedian is not pathetic at all...
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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Smoke Machine

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #683 on: June 30, 2020, 03:03:08 AM »
He is an idiot.

You, like me, and everybody else on this planet, are composed of minerals from the planet itself. Our whole bodies are composed of bits of the planet.

So, it stands to reason, if the planet is moving, that which makes up our bodies have been moving with it, before we were even conceived.

If you fall to the ground because of gravity, it is more correct to say you fell to the ground, not that the earth hit you. When you parachute, you are falling to the ground, not eaitingvfirvthecearth to hit you.

You are within the earth system, cikljamas. Part of the earth environment. 
For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

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JJA

  • 6873
  • +2/-6
  • Math is math!
Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #684 on: June 30, 2020, 03:53:29 AM »
I have been ignoring this topic for a while since I didn't want anything to do with people being e-mailed. But I can't help my curiosity. Can anybody update me on where we are with the astronauts being alive? Is that taken care of now? I know, it's probably in here somewhere but then I have to scroll through the 18 or so pages I have not kept up with.

Just to recap, cikljamas emailed professor Michael Smith.

              **  Spoiler Alert ***
Professor Michael Smith hasn't returned email, to cikljamas.


                *** Spoiler Alert  ***
As such, cikljamas delusion of Michael Smith being an astronaut, has been reinforced.

Good update. 

Surprise, the Professor didn't respond to a conspiracy theorist after being AMBUSHED at his house by one in the past, which ended up with him yelling at the guy.  The Professor made it quite clear he didn't want to be contacted about any of this.

cikljamas knew all this and emailed him anyway with a threatening tone.

And is shocked, just shocked he didn't get a response.

*** Spoiler Alert  ***

cikljamas is not just delusional, but dishonest and willing to harass retired Professors and demand their baby pictures, or else. 

SomeDutchGuy , just read this... https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=86036.msg2257814#msg2257814

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SomeDutchGuy

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #685 on: June 30, 2020, 08:47:34 AM »
I have been ignoring this topic for a while since I didn't want anything to do with people being e-mailed. But I can't help my curiosity. Can anybody update me on where we are with the astronauts being alive? Is that taken care of now? I know, it's probably in here somewhere but then I have to scroll through the 18 or so pages I have not kept up with.

Just to recap, cikljamas emailed professor Michael Smith.

              **  Spoiler Alert ***
Professor Michael Smith hasn't returned email, to cikljamas.


                *** Spoiler Alert  ***
As such, cikljamas delusion of Michael Smith being an astronaut, has been reinforced.

Good update. 

Surprise, the Professor didn't respond to a conspiracy theorist after being AMBUSHED at his house by one in the past, which ended up with him yelling at the guy.  The Professor made it quite clear he didn't want to be contacted about any of this.

cikljamas knew all this and emailed him anyway with a threatening tone.

And is shocked, just shocked he didn't get a response.

*** Spoiler Alert  ***

cikljamas is not just delusional, but dishonest and willing to harass retired Professors and demand their baby pictures, or else. 

SomeDutchGuy , just read this... https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=86036.msg2257814#msg2257814

Thanks JJA, and Smoke Machine as well.

An absence of reply does usually not raise suspicions, I mean, it is just that, an absence of reply. When you're tried in a court of law (or interviewed) you can also retain your right to keep silent at all times.

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Smoke Machine

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #686 on: June 30, 2020, 01:52:09 PM »
Absolutely! Where would cikljamas give up the ghost? Before he knows it, the good professor will have handed over all his early photos of himself, his birth certificate, his school report cards, his marriage certificate, his diplomas, degrees, his traffic violation history.

Then cikljamas would demand a full manuscript of his dating history, his DNA sequence, access to his family tree on ancestry.com, his blood group, his dental records, his medical records, his favourite pajamas, his favourite hat, a pair of his unwashed undies.

By this stage, cikljamas is now identifying so closely with the professor, he is dressing like him, and mimicking his mannerisms all to test whether it is feasible he was an astronaut. 

He has now relocated  to the USA and signed up to the professor's course, is now renting the house across the road from the professor, has his powerful telescope trained not at alpha centauri, but at the professor's bedroom.

The professor now starts getting mysterious break ins, where the burglar spray paints across the professors living room wall, "astronot", and "NASA shill". "Today will be my lucky day I nail this mongrel", says cikljamas. "Today I will find something NASA in his house- even if I have to plant it there myself."

I can't imagine why the good professor would just exercise his right to stay silent, with little ol innocent cikljamas on the case......
For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

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rabinoz

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  • Real Earth Believer
Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #687 on: June 30, 2020, 03:17:10 PM »
Cikljamas, why are you offering up this pathetic indian comedian, to make a point? By the way, what point are you trying to make? You aren't even a flat earther, so what does this comedy act have in common with
your ball earth beliefs?

Get back to to the challenger astronauts.

Don't tell me that you didn't understand the question? So, why don't you answer it? Unlike Rabinoz and your friends on this forum , our fabulous indian comedian is not pathetic at all...
You mean your "fabulous indian comedian" that you pretend is Neil deGrasse Tyson ;D ;D ;D? What a joke!

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Stash

  • Ethical Stash
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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #688 on: June 30, 2020, 03:50:48 PM »
Just to keep a running recap tally and fill in some gaps so future humans don't have to go back and wade through all of cikljamas' conspiratorial flotsam:

- Challenger astronauts did not perish and are alive and well today - Debunked, over and over, and over again
- Mice in space - Debunked
- Lemmings on Mars - Debunked
- Missing lunar rover tire tracks - Debunked
- Claiming ’NASA’ is Hebrew for “to be deceived"…. - Debunked
- Secret NASA Mars landscape in Canada - Debunked
- Ring Laser Gyroscope doesn’t show earth rotation - Debunked
- Claiming the State of Liberty is actually Apollo aka Lucifer aka Demonic Masonic Lying Lightbearer - Debunked
- Not properly citing sources - Constant
- Cherry picking citations - Constant
- Misrepresenting/misinterpreting sources - Constant
- Not understanding the basics of a frame of reference - Constant
- Grotesque and childish use of font size and color - Constant
- Presenting images and claiming they are genuine and/or from NASA, when they are not - Constant
- Presenting videos and claiming they are genuine and/or from NASA, when they are not - Constant
- Antivaxxer - Constant
- Conspiracy Theorist through and through - Constant
- Repeating the same copy & paste walls of text over and over again even though they are debunked - Constant
- Contacting and threatening a Professor - Egregious, selfish, and unwarranted
- Truth seeker - Never

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cikljamas

  • 2466
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  • Ex nihilo nihil fit
Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #689 on: July 01, 2020, 07:08:53 AM »
Just a few words now to put the icing on this particular "Gotcha". Seven paragraphs ago direct quote was used to describe how "they repressurized their cabin." They went on to tell how they did this long checklist. Here's the very next paragraph: "They removed their boots, slipped out of the backpacks heavy with life-support equipment that had kept them alive on the moon, reopened the hatch, and dumped them along with crumpled food packages and filled urine bags onto the surface."
Not a word about spending another two hours or so venting the LEM, or about hooking up air lines to stay alive once the hatch opened onto the vacuum of space. There was no airlock on any LEM! Gotcha , NASA!
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP