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teamswork

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2centsworth

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teamswork
« on: February 22, 2019, 03:57:04 AM »
I have been studying scientific advances.   Case in point:  William Shockley was a smart man.   He did not invent the transistor.  He was the project manager of it's development.  He was the head of a team.  Science is not about free thinking geniuses!   Shockley was a manager.  The development of the transistor was a team effort requiring input from thousands if one considers that scientific development builds on what has come before it.    Shockley and his team required input from chemists, physicists and other mathematical consultants.   This is true of any technological advancement.   Science is not about individual genius.  It is about trial and error and team effort.   I don't doubt that a lot of scientists are plagiarists;  they take credit for other's ideas.  When I worked as an engineer I had to sign a piece of paper saying that any patent I might apply for would be the property of the people I worked for.

(Yeah, I misspelled teamwork:  LOL at myself)

If one wants to write verse like Shakespeare of play a guitar like Jimi Hendrix it takes a gift.   You can not learn these kinds of skills in school!  Who knows where this kind of skill comes from?  Anyone with a brain that is willing to work can be an effective scientist; brains are cheap!  Talent like Shakespeare is not so cheap.

Thus, I conclude that the gifted among us are exclusively athletes and artists.

Another thing about scientists:  Without a priest, politician, soldier or businessman telling them what to do they would be lost.  Science belongs to the people who fund it not the people who work at it.

The only reason people know about Einstein is because he had a PR machine behind him.


If Newton, Archimedes and Einstein had not lived the world would still be at the same level of scientific and technological development.   Scientists are not gifted.  Most people with high IQ's end up dead and unknown.


The smartest people are lawyers; the good ones.   All one needs to do to see this fact is look at the OJ Simpson trial.  John Cochran stood head and shoulders above the science, the athlete, the cops and the Los Angeles prosecutors office.



   
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 03:58:53 AM by 2centsworth »
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2centsworth

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Is talent a curse?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2019, 04:02:47 AM »
I have wrote about Elvis and his immense popularity.    Elvis died young and miserable.   If he were not famous perhaps he would have survived a longer time and been happy.   Same is true of Jimi Hendrix.   Elvis, John Lennon and Hendrix did not seem to enjoy their success.  Mozart died young, poor and misunderstood.   I wonder if it was worth it?
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BatteryStaple

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Re: teamswork
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2019, 05:01:11 AM »
Do you really need to make another thead to reiterate the fact that you don't understand science?
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Pezevenk

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Re: Is talent a curse?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2019, 08:34:30 AM »
You're really gonna get all your mileage out of the Elvis shtick, aren't you?
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Slemon

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Re: Is talent a curse?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2019, 01:21:04 PM »
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2centsworth

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Re: teamswork
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2019, 02:44:25 AM »
Quote from: TheLordBarst on February 22, 2019, 05:01:11 AM
Do you really need to make another thead to reiterate the fact that you don't understand science?

Empty words.
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2centsworth

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Re: teamswork
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2019, 03:18:56 AM »
I will post whatever I want whenever I feel like it until I am banned.  If people don't like it they are free to ignore me.
Scientists: always the servants; never the masters!

No shame in being wrong; we all make mistakes.   There is only shame in doing wrong.
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Bom Tishop

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Re: teamswork
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2019, 03:52:33 AM »
Your original post is short sighted and ignorant.

Scientist are no different than any other form of creative minds (at least those that actually join the profession to create). Yes, there may be many people working on a solution to a problem, however, it takes that special person with the mind that works in the correct manner (we all have minds with different strengths and weaknesses) to get that ah ha moment. To put all the pieces together, even if other people made some of the pieces...what good is a puzzle if there isn't someone to put it together?

Even though Tesla created AC current to beat Edison's DC, he didn't make all the pieces. There were others for a time working on the same goal. He looked at their work, then was able to put together the pieces and make his own to create the final picture...then he went on a crazy run of creating things...some things 70 years or more ahead of it's time. If there weren't special people that just get something and can do what others can't, none of his inventions would be 70 years ahead of it's time.


Same with your artist analogy... musicians have their lists of influences that mold them in their younger years...then they add their own self into the music and create something more unique, however, they didn't get there alone...same artist and any other form of creative mind.

Your other example of lawyers, they stand on the work of their predecessors all the time.... Why do you think they use other cases in court, there are entire defense models that are used that another lawyer created.... Do you think a top defense/prosecution attorney in the 1800s could cold a candle to a top attorney now?? No way, they have generations of combined knowledge and experience to use the attorneys of the 1800s would not have.

Same with our children, they should be smarter than the parents. I will be very disappointed if my children are not more intelligent than I when they hit my age now...if they don't accomplish more than I have.

Hell, our whole world works that way...if we didn't learn and take from our predecessors we wouldn't even have fire or the wheel...


Again, your original post is nonsense...maybe you should look at your predecessors and history to hopefully learn something.
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boydster

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Re: teamswork
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2019, 03:57:33 AM »
Quote from: 2centsworth on February 23, 2019, 02:44:25 AM
Quote from: TheLordBarst on February 22, 2019, 05:01:11 AM
Do you really need to make another thead to reiterate the fact that you don't understand science?

Empty words.

Irony.


CFC, great post by the way. In any field, the greats don't exist in a vacuum.
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2centsworth

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Re: teamswork
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2019, 12:05:21 PM »
Someone else invented the piano and musical scholarship had considerable development before Mozart was born.  But nobody taught Mozart how to compose music.  You can't teach people how to make beautiful art that transcends it's time and expresses universal beauty.  You can teach people how to read and write but you can't really teach them how to be poets.

Scientific method can be taught just like running a business can be taught or building a bridge can be taught.  There is really no mystery to it at all.  Outside of that all one needs is luck or inspiration.

The great pyramid began as a dream in the mind of an architect; a visionary artist!  The managers, number-crunchers and laborers came later.  Nobody taught that architect how to dream.
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2centsworth

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Re: teamswork
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2019, 12:19:59 PM »
Outside of shallow put downs and dogmatic hero worship none of you have anything.  I know science just as well as any of the rest of you and probably more than most of you.

Art and music are neither good nor bad.  One either likes it or they don't.

Science, business, the law are both good and bad at the same time.  They concern practical matters and require practical right brained thinking.  It only takes hard work and a brain to be creative at science.

Earlier, someone mentioned Leonardo da Vinci.  Leonardo was good at everything he tried.  He could do science, math and engineering and he was an accomplished musician.   But his notoriety came from his painting because his paintings were mysterious and beautiful.  His science could be replicated by others but his painting not so much.

If Einstein, Archimedes and Newton hadn't lived science would be at the same place as where it is.   Science is about the daily grind of trial and error.   Personalities have little to do with it, unlike art and music.  Brains are cheap.  Outside of hunches science is all right brained whereas painting and sculpture are left brain and music requires the whole brain.

"From the time of the invention of the wheel the invention of the automobile was foretold."  And if Henry Ford wouldn't have lived someone else would have learned to make cars off an assembly line.

Very few of you in here has any respect for any who disagree with your world view.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: teamswork
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2019, 01:35:01 PM »
Quote from: 2centsworth on February 23, 2019, 12:19:59 PM
Outside of shallow put downs and dogmatic hero worship none of you have anything.  I know science just as well as any of the rest of you and probably more than most of you.

Art and music are neither good nor bad.  One either likes it or they don't.

Science, business, the law are both good and bad at the same time.  They concern practical matters and require practical right brained thinking.  It only takes hard work and a brain to be creative at science.

Earlier, someone mentioned Leonardo da Vinci.  Leonardo was good at everything he tried.  He could do science, math and engineering and he was an accomplished musician.   But his notoriety came from his painting because his paintings were mysterious and beautiful.  His science could be replicated by others but his painting not so much.

If Einstein, Archimedes and Newton hadn't lived science would be at the same place as where it is.   Science is about the daily grind of trial and error.   Personalities have little to do with it, unlike art and music.  Brains are cheap.  Outside of hunches science is all right brained whereas painting and sculpture are left brain and music requires the whole brain.

"From the time of the invention of the wheel the invention of the automobile was foretold."  And if Henry Ford wouldn't have lived someone else would have learned to make cars off an assembly line.

Very few of you in here has any respect for any who disagree with your world view.

As long as you promise to not troll if your after teamwork this forum regular hosts werepenguin games. You can be a part of it and work in a team!
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Is talent a curse?
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2019, 03:09:28 AM »
Talent is a gift. Like anything in life it's how you use it. If your talent brings you lots of money and you spend that money on drugs, that's not the fault of your talent.

Elvis was an entertainer. Talented but his demise was not because he was good at what he did, but because his will was weak, couldn't handle the fame and did not have the sense of when to walk away. A rational person would not have turned to drugs. We are all flawed human beings and he was no different.

But drugs are not just bad, but illegal. He died a criminal. Alone, fat, miserable and poor health from years of abusing it.

Not my kind of idol but each to their own
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Is talent a curse?
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2019, 09:50:36 PM »
Talent is not a curse.
Talent is a combination of dedication, hard work and passion.

Talent is not what John Lennon or James Dean died from.


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2centsworth

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Re: teamswork
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2019, 03:53:20 AM »
So, I am supposed to believe that without Billy Shockley that there would be no such thing as semiconductors, hence, no such thing as the internet?  Well, I don't believe it.  If Shockley never had existed somebody else would have discovered how to make semiconductor materials; same goes with any technical or scientific advancement.

Scientists are not gifted in the same sense as athletes or artists; the stand outs; the household names.  Scientists aren't much different than bridge players, chess players, police detectives or businessmen.   All it takes is a brain that can calculate, hard work and a little luck.
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2centsworth

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Re: Is talent a curse?
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2019, 04:04:48 AM »
Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 24, 2019, 09:50:36 PM
Talent is not a curse.
Talent is a combination of dedication, hard work and passion.

Talent is not what John Lennon or James Dean died from.

I didn't say that they died from being talented.  But, I do believe their fame put them in a bad place.  In the  case of Mozart, in spite of his great talent and industry he died poor.  Poverty was his reward for all that work he did.

Does a great and memorable work of art really change anything?   I doubt it.   If Beethoven had not written his 5th symphony or Michelangelo had not sculpted David the world would still be the same place.  People would still be just as messed up and violent.

Music and art is what separates us from the critters.  I love music but sometimes people take themselves too seriously and that is always a mistake.
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2centsworth

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Re: teamswork
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2019, 04:29:11 AM »
 Call me what ever you want but I am not a troll.  Neither am I a team player.  I am beautiful but not perfect.  You're beautiful, too, but you just don't know it.  Have you ever seen the movie, Invasion of the Body Snatchers?  I take the message as being that whenever one becomes part of a movement then they invariably lose a part of themselves.  I am fighting for my soul!  I struggle against the forces of organized religion, political ideologies and scientism.  I truly feel violated by our leaders and the school system and the military.  Thus, my bitterness.  However, I often remind myself that life is just as much about puppy dogs, butterflies and dewy summer mornings as anything else.

None of us is superior.  We are all equally important in the universal scheme of things; and we are all replaceable
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BatteryStaple

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Re: teamswork
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2019, 05:54:31 AM »
>scientism
troll confirmed
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Stash

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Re: Is talent a curse?
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2019, 05:17:14 PM »
Some people are talented, famous, rich, live long lives and are happy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, live long lives and are happy.
Some people are talented, famous, rich, live long lives and are unhappy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, live long lives and are unhappy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, die young and were happy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, die young and were unhappy.
An so on.

So what's your point?
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2centsworth

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Re: Is talent a curse?
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2019, 01:45:09 AM »
Quote from: Stash on February 26, 2019, 05:17:14 PM
Some people are talented, famous, rich, live long lives and are happy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, live long lives and are happy.
Some people are talented, famous, rich, live long lives and are unhappy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, live long lives and are unhappy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, die young and were happy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, die young and were unhappy.
An so on.
So what's your point?

By 'talent' I mean the ability to make a body of work that will last the test of time; to be an historical standout and household name.  This ability comes at a high price I believe.  Can you imagine how Mozart must have felt?  He must have known how good he was and yet he was rejected by the public and died poor in spite of all his efforts.

Do you think Michael Jackson was happy?

My point is that civilized society has a fucked up sense of priorities.

What's your point?

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Is talent a curse?
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2019, 01:48:25 AM »
Quote from: 2centsworth on March 09, 2019, 01:45:09 AM
Quote from: Stash on February 26, 2019, 05:17:14 PM
Some people are talented, famous, rich, live long lives and are happy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, live long lives and are happy.
Some people are talented, famous, rich, live long lives and are unhappy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, live long lives and are unhappy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, die young and were happy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, die young and were unhappy.
An so on.
So what's your point?

By 'talent' I mean the ability to make a body of work that will last the test of time; to be an historical standout and household name.  This ability comes at a high price I believe.  Can you imagine how Mozart must have felt?  He must have known how good he was and yet he was rejected by the public and died poor in spite of all his efforts.

Do you think Michael Jackson was happy?

My point is that civilized society has a fucked up sense of priorities.

What's your point?

You are confusing talent with fame.
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2centsworth

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Re: teamswork
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2019, 02:11:53 AM »
Me, a troll?  Nope.  I have not personally insulted anybody in this forum.   I have not engaged in circular arguments.  I have not pretended knowledge nor posed as any kind of expert nor been condescending to anybody.

I have been disrespected with glib and sarcastic remarks.  I have been name called and put down.  I don't care.   Tolstoy was censured and Socrates was put to death all because people didn't like what they had to say so I guess I am in good company.   (I don't identify with their greatness but I can certainly identify with their alienation!)

If Billy Shockley had not live we would still have the internet and semiconductor technology.

If Archimedes had not lived we would still know about basic tools, buoyancy and that torque= moment arm times force.

IF Newton hadn't lived we would still have calculus and f=ma.

If Einstein hadn't lived we would still have his bullshit theories only they would have been authored by some other stinky slob.

If Edison, Fitzgerald, Pascal,..., oh, the list goes on,..., had not lived we would still have the same shit as what we do now because science is not about personal achievement.  It is about building on what has come before where the direction of the development has already been set.  Science is about teamwork and the daily application of trial and error.  Scientists are not gifted in the same sense has a great artist or an athlete.

There is such a thing as scientism and technocratic dogma.   A lot of you people in here would have been the types who voted to execute Socrates simply because you didn't like the things he said.  A lot of you people in here like to think you are open minded and reasonable but you are not.  You are just as bigoted as any religious fanatic.





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2centsworth

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Re: teamswork
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2019, 02:17:04 AM »
You people who identify with and worship scientists the way you do are doing it as a compensatory response.
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2centsworth

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Re: Is talent a curse?
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2019, 02:25:18 AM »
Fame often comes from displaying great talent.   van Gogh wasn't famous.  There are artists like van Gogh and Mozart who didn't become famous until after they were dead.  They had hard lives!

I am not confusing anything at all.

I should specify that by 'talent' I mean the ability to create a body of work that lasts the tests of time.  We all have some talent in a generic sense.  A lot times famous people aren't talented at all.  I love Britney Spears!  To be honest I have seen better singers and dancers.
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2centsworth

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Re: teamswork
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2019, 02:28:28 AM »
What have any of my detractors shown but judgment towards me?  I have not personally insulted you at all.  But, if the shoe fits wear it!

I take your post as being tacit agreement with what I have stated.

Scientism is alive and well and it fucks up peoples heads just as much as religious dogma.  Live with it.
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Is talent a curse?
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2019, 02:37:57 AM »
Oh, you've revived this character.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Is talent a curse?
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2019, 02:43:00 AM »
Quote from: 2centsworth on March 09, 2019, 02:25:18 AM
Fame often comes from displaying great talent.

Fame comes from being popular.
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2centsworth

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anarchy
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2019, 02:44:05 AM »
The architects of anarchy have been hard at work.   The archons are rising from out of the pit.  (Not my words but I agree with what they express.) They want to ruin your lives and eat your souls.  When it comes down to it science and intellect will not help you. 

I have heard it said that the power of love and a good sense of humor are the weapons of the angels.  Good luck to all of you.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Is talent a curse?
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2019, 02:49:52 AM »
Quote from: 2centsworth on March 09, 2019, 02:25:18 AM
I love Britney Spears!

And you say you're not trolling! ::)

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Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place
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Bullwinkle

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Re: anarchy
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2019, 02:49:54 AM »
Quote from: 2centsworth on March 09, 2019, 02:44:05 AM

I have heard it said that the power of love and a good sense of humor are the weapons of the angels.

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