How does the sun and moon just hover above flat earth

So. I guess round earth wins this debate by default.....

If I say a bad word will it go to angry ranting. Because I'm sick and tired of waiting for an answer.

I asked the same thing on TFES.org and so far have been simply ignored and that was in a thread on why the earth keeps rotating.

Understand, I have not fully researched it yet, and I have a job every night to fill most of my time so I haven't been able to devote much time to the thought of this in particular.  I have been wondering about this myself though,  Could it be something like electron shells in relation to the dome?  The sun being in a lower concave shell to the dome than the moon.  Just a preliminary thought process.
I am sure Jack will be in shortly to show me how silly the idea is, I welcome his or any others feedback, it forces me to think about it again.  I just don't want this to be a thread of RE supporters congratulating each other because no FE or others(like myself) give any answers to the question.

We have a search function for a reason.  Your questions have been asked and answered many times.  But, I will spoon feed you.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69816.msg1886106#msg1886106

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59821.msg1543783#msg1543783

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64845.msg1729282#msg1729282

We have a search function for a reason.  Your questions have been asked and answered many times.  But, I will spoon feed you.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69816.msg1886106#msg1886106

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59821.msg1543783#msg1543783

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64845.msg1729282#msg1729282

Rather rude.  The first link is from a couple of months ago and it was about what the sun was made of.  The second is about how the sun keeps burning and the thrid is about craters.  Please tell us how searching for this question will reveal have assed answers that you think relates to this question will bring us anything at all?  The threads you linked to are not covering the same thing as this question is.  Do you understand how the search function works or are you being an asshole for a purpose?  Interesting thinking about the possible purpose though, your answers to those questions are also equally as dodgy as you did in the other thread.  Are you trying to destroy the FE model from within by chipping away at any credibility it may have?  Why? 

I'm confused now.  Has jroa angered a FE by not giving good answers?  This makes no sense.  FE person demanding their answers make sense?  Holy shit, next cats will be sleeping with dogs.

Quote from: jroa on May 29, 2018, 06:21:54 AM

We have a search function for a reason.  Your questions have been asked and answered many times.  But, I will spoon feed you.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69816.msg1886106#msg1886106

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59821.msg1543783#msg1543783

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64845.msg1729282#msg1729282

Rather rude.  The first link is from a couple of months ago and it was about what the sun was made of.  The second is about how the sun keeps burning and the thrid is about craters.  Please tell us how searching for this question will reveal have assed answers that you think relates to this question will bring us anything at all? 

What are you talking about?  Here are the first two questions.  The links I gave directly answered these questions.

How the hell does the sun simply hover above a flat earth and have an infinite fuel supply to keep it glowing.

As far as being rude, the guy has been demanding answers for a week now, and even has a post in the angry ranting forum where he tells us off for not answering him sooner. 

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=76085.0

I don't mind helping people out with answers, but when they come here using less than polite language, act entitled to anything they demand and then complain that it is taking too long to get the answers they seek, it kind of throws people away from wanting to help them. 

If I say a bad word will it go to angry ranting. Because I'm sick and tired of waiting for an answer.

Flat earthers ignore it because they can't answer it.

Simple as that.

They don't need to defend their flat earth, but rather only want to attack the globe earth and repeat the same old questions and answers repeatedly.
They don't know how the sun/moon are hovering in the sky, just as they don't know what the dome fillament is made of, what is outside the dome or what shape we are living on other than the top is flat.
They don't know what the sun and moon are made of, or even their shape.
They have no answer for how the sun acts like a spotlight or why the dome rotates.

Simple as that.

EDIT: Oh wait, they also use magical unproven 18th century substances like Phlogiston or magical properties like Aetheral Whirlpool without anything to back up their claim.
Flat earthers simply use magical concepts that have never been proven because they don't have an answer. It is a guess, fiction like that in Scientology, and they never try to prove or disprove it.

Oh wait, they also use magical unproven 18th century substances like Phlogiston or magical properties like Aetheral Whirlpool without anything to back up their claim.

Do substances like Dark Matter or magical properties like Dark Energy sound better to you?

Quote from: SphericalEarther on May 29, 2018, 07:30:54 AM

Oh wait, they also use magical unproven 18th century substances like Phlogiston or magical properties like Aetheral Whirlpool without anything to back up their claim.

Do substances like Dark Matter or magical properties like Dark Energy sound better to you?

Dark Matter is a theory, as we have way more mass in our universe observed by gravity than we can observe by other means.
It is actively researched just like string theory, dark energy and others, and provides us the ability to predict the observed universe, even when we haven't found the reason yet.

So, does the flat earth theory contain ANY predictive powers?
It can't even provide a proper map or predict the location or size of the sun in the sky. Even with our current technology and supercomputers, it just can't be done, while the globe earth and solar system can be easily simulated on a 15 year old computer.

A theory can only hold its ground if it can predict. The flat earth theory is a concept with a model that doesn't work and can't predict anything. Even the magical properties you provide only helps to keep the model from sinking, but never provides predictive powers.

Dark Matter is a theory, as we have way more mass in our universe observed by gravity than we can observe by other means.
It is actively researched just like string theory, dark energy and others, and provides us the ability to predict the observed universe, even when we haven't found the reason yet.

So, does the flat earth theory contain ANY predictive powers?

Dark Stuff does not predict anything.
It fills in the void between what you expect to see and what you actually see.

You need to explain exactly what Dark Matter and Dark Energy is
before we can take anything you Round Earthers say seriously.

Quote from: SphericalEarther on May 29, 2018, 08:32:42 AM

Dark Matter is a theory, as we have way more mass in our universe observed by gravity than we can observe by other means.
It is actively researched just like string theory, dark energy and others, and provides us the ability to predict the observed universe, even when we haven't found the reason yet.

So, does the flat earth theory contain ANY predictive powers?

Dark Stuff does not predict anything. It fills in the void between what you expect to see and what you actually see.

You need to explain exactly what Dark Matter and Dark Energy is before we can take anything you Round Earthers say seriously.

No we don't. Let's stick to the question of the flat earth vs Globe earth and the structure of the Solar System for now.

DARK MATTER IN THE SOLAR SYSTEM
The average density of dark matter near the solar system is approximately 1 proton-mass for every 3 cubic centimeters, which is roughly 6x10^-22 kg/m³.

Based on this number, we can work out the total mass of dark matter within the radius of Earth's orbit around the sun: for an orbital radius of 100 million km, we get a total of 2.3x10¹² kg of dark matter within the Earth's orbit. This sounds like a lot, but the sun's mass is 2x10³⁰ kg. All of that dark matter only weighs 10^-18 as much as the sun does, so we cannot detect the tiny pull of dark matter upon the Earth's orbit. The same story is true all over the solar system: the gravitational pulls of the sun and planets are always much larger than that of the dark matter.

In other words whether Dark Matter exists or not it can have no effect on us here on earth.
Let the cosmologists hypothesise what they like about "galaxies far away" it does not change what we see here.

We have a search function for a reason.  Your questions have been asked and answered many times.  But, I will spoon feed you.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69816.msg1886106#msg1886106

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59821.msg1543783#msg1543783

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64845.msg1729282#msg1729282

Is this a joke or do you expect us to take these pure guesses seriously?

• Quote from: jroa on March 25, 2017, 04:40:50 AM

  It has been postulated that the sun is made of nearly pure phlogiston.  In this model, the sun has been calculated to be around 32 miles across and approximately 3000 miles away.
• Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on September 21, 2013, 09:58:20 AM

  Cause, y'know, the Sun is comprised entirely of a substance, of undefined mass, that was the basis for a theory that was abandoned because it was proven wrong like 300 years ago.
• Quote from: jroa on November 14, 2015, 11:25:52 PM

  The sun, moon, etc. are suspended in the Aetheral Whirlpool above the Earth's surface.   
  

And you flat-earthers have the audacity to ask us for proof.

I've said all along that Zeticism means,
"The horizon looks flat, therefore the whole earth must be flat". Then guess the answers for the numerous problems a flat earth throws up.

It doesn't... the 24-hour sun visible at 360 degrees, proves that wrong.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on May 29, 2018, 05:47:33 PM

Quote from: SphericalEarther on May 29, 2018, 08:32:42 AM

Dark Matter is a theory, as we have way more mass in our universe observed by gravity than we can observe by other means.
It is actively researched just like string theory, dark energy and others, and provides us the ability to predict the observed universe, even when we haven't found the reason yet.

So, does the flat earth theory contain ANY predictive powers?

Dark Stuff does not predict anything. It fills in the void between what you expect to see and what you actually see.

You need to explain exactly what Dark Matter and Dark Energy is before we can take anything you Round Earthers say seriously.

No we don't.

Yes, you do.   

Quote from: SphericalEarther on May 29, 2018, 08:32:42 AM

Dark Matter is a theory, as we have way more mass in our universe observed by gravity than we can observe by other means.
It is actively researched just like string theory, dark energy and others, and provides us the ability to predict the observed universe, even when we haven't found the reason yet.

So, does the flat earth theory contain ANY predictive powers?

Dark Stuff does not predict anything.
It fills in the void between what you expect to see and what you actually see.

You need to explain exactly what Dark Matter and Dark Energy is
before we can take anything you Round Earthers say seriously.

LOL

Truly LOL

By that definition of yours, flat earthers are laughable since you can't explain anything. We shouldn't take you serious at all.

You have so many holes and flaws that your so called theory should have sunk a long time ago, but your desperately trying to keep it afloat.

It seems as though you are just attacking the globe rather than defending the flat earth, because you can't answer the question you deflect by attacking the globe instead.
We admit what we do not know, and we do not know what dark matter is. Flat earthers however have a truly hard time just simply admitting that they don't know something, and in your case, you are simply attacking what we have admitted we do not know. Classical flat earther behavior.

We dont need to know what dark matter is to explain a globe earth. It is like saying you need to know the exact number of Pi to calculate 2 + 2.

So come again.

Quote from: rabinoz on May 29, 2018, 09:14:02 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on May 29, 2018, 05:47:33 PM

Dark Stuff does not predict anything. It fills in the void between what you expect to see and what you actually see.

You need to explain exactly what Dark Matter and Dark Energy is before we can take anything you Round Earthers say seriously.

No we don't.

Yes, you do.   

You need to explain exactly what Dark Energy is before we can take anything you Flat Earthers say seriously.
Touché

Astrophysics
UNIVERSAL ACCELERATION
In the Universal Acceleration model, all the celestial bodies including the earth are being accelerated in one uniform direction at roughly 9.81 m/s^2. The proposed method of propulsion is Dark Energy.

  Like to call it quits or try for a duel, say "Wet lettuce leaves at 10 paces?"

Or would you prefer to support jroa?

The sun, moon, etc. are suspended in the Aetheral Whirlpool above the Earth's surface.

P.S. I find the Flat Earth Society Forum fascinating. It is sooooo entertaining!!!
"Go to any other Website on the Internet for education. Go to the Flat Earth Society Forum Website for entertainment."
                                                                                                                                                              With apologies to  Googleotomy.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on May 29, 2018, 10:31:58 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on May 29, 2018, 09:14:02 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on May 29, 2018, 05:47:33 PM

Dark Stuff does not predict anything. It fills in the void between what you expect to see and what you actually see.

You need to explain exactly what Dark Matter and Dark Energy is before we can take anything you Round Earthers say seriously.

No we don't.

Yes, you do.   

You need to explain exactly what Dark Energy is before we can take anything you Flat Earthers say seriously.
Touché

No, you don't get to add Black Magic to make your cosmos work.

Quote from: rabinoz on May 30, 2018, 01:45:15 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on May 29, 2018, 10:31:58 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on May 29, 2018, 09:14:02 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on May 29, 2018, 05:47:33 PM

Dark Stuff does not predict anything. It fills in the void between what you expect to see and what you actually see.

You need to explain exactly what Dark Matter and Dark Energy is before we can take anything you Round Earthers say seriously.

No we don't.

Yes, you do.   

You need to explain exactly what Dark Energy is before we can take anything you Flat Earthers say seriously.
Touché

No, you don't get to add Black Magic to make your cosmos work.

Where am I adding Black Magic to make the cosmos work? It's your Wiki that brings in dark energy.

I'm not overly concerned with the cosmos. There is no need for dark matter or dark energy to explain what can readily be observed.

Now what about getting back on the topic, "How does the sun and moon just hover above flat earth?"

OK. A day of me being offline and finally. A conversation.

Now what about getting back on the topic, "How does the sun and moon just hover above flat earth?"

Dark Magic?   

No, seriously, nobody in their right mind would claim they 'hover'.

Quote from: Realdeal on May 29, 2018, 06:37:48 AM

Quote from: jroa on May 29, 2018, 06:21:54 AM

We have a search function for a reason.  Your questions have been asked and answered many times.  But, I will spoon feed you.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69816.msg1886106#msg1886106

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59821.msg1543783#msg1543783

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64845.msg1729282#msg1729282

Rather rude.  The first link is from a couple of months ago and it was about what the sun was made of.  The second is about how the sun keeps burning and the thrid is about craters.  Please tell us how searching for this question will reveal have assed answers that you think relates to this question will bring us anything at all? 

What are you talking about?  Here are the first two questions.  The links I gave directly answered these questions.

Quote from: TP@A on May 21, 2018, 02:49:21 AM

How the hell does the sun simply hover above a flat earth and have an infinite fuel supply to keep it glowing.

As far as being rude, the guy has been demanding answers for a week now, and even has a post in the angry ranting forum where he tells us off for not answering him sooner. 

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=76085.0

I don't mind helping people out with answers, but when they come here using less than polite language, act entitled to anything they demand and then complain that it is taking too long to get the answers they seek, it kind of throws people away from wanting to help them.

OK. Sorry to be rude. Its hard not to be rude when everyone is bashing each other with insults.
But all I want is either an answer or a reply from a flat earther about the question. Sorry for being a complete jerk about all this.

Electromagnetism.

Electromagnetism.

If you find yourself listening to a "mud melon", use this as reference material to understand where their argument falls apart;



It's not a discussion on flat or spherical but rather, a humorous explanation on "research".  Be careful though... whenever the word "Zetetic" appears, you should immediately recognise that you are dealing with someone who is a few sandwiches shy of a full picnic.

Anyhow, if you have the IQ for it, it's a great teaching tool.  It should be required viewing for anyone on either side of an argument to watch.

Sun and Moon work on electromagnetism, Eric Dollard is a man with great knowledge of our Sun check him out on YouTube.

Another nut with Gravity which is classed as natural phenomena, anyhow natural phenomena you can either see it, feel it or both where as with our Magical Gravity you cannot see it or feel it there for it does not exist.
It only exists for the globe earth theory.

This fella has a good website and explains the Moon phases.
https://www.flat-earth-moon-phases.com/

Quote from: Machinist on May 24, 2018, 09:06:07 PM

Just happened upon this thread...  I too am very curious how this theory can be explained.  The simple science that we know today tells me that they can't do this because it would violate many laws of physics that we are familiar with.  I know, I know, Flat Earthers, it all lies, right?  Just because they work all the time doesn't mean they're real...  Still the spherical earth model explains it all.  If it's a setup, its a pretty damn good one!

Just what I was thinking this morning. It's a damn well detailed conspiracy. It's all lies yet it manages to be the technology on which earth's civilisation is built. It's all lies yet it ensures sailors and pilots cross vast oceans with extreme accuracy. It's all fake yet all the pictures, videos, live streams and other evidence making up terabytes of information are so terribly consistent. The theories are dreamt up by "them" yet they work and work well. They explain all of reality as we see it.

That's one heck of a conspiracy.

But those who are woke, those who have shaken off the indoctrination and brainwashing, those who are more intelligent than the rest of us, that have seen through the fog of lies, can't even agree on the distance between New York and Paris. A route travelled since before the United States, creator of the great Satan NASA, was established

I wouldn't call it a conspiracy if truly is so accurate. If these observations all magically fall into place and support each other, all while managing to keep this conspiracy afloat, it'd make more sense to call it a real theory.

Science rejects a theory if another one is more compatible with current observations. As the Flat Earth theory stands right how, while it could be right, Flat Earthers have yet to present a good theory that logically aligns with current observations.

If Flat Earthers can present a theory that either doesn't contradict themselves, doesn't break some of the laws of physics they claim to abide by, or doesn't contradicts simple everyday observations, perhaps they could see more success. But as Flat Earth stands now, they have trouble even agreeing amongst themselves.

If you're serious with this, you Flat Earthers need to step up your game.

Sun and Moon work on electromagnetism

Care to elaborate?

anyhow natural phenomena you can either see it, feel it or both where as with our Magical Gravity you cannot see it or feel it there for it does not exist.

Really?
So you just float around in the sky?
I feel gravity all the time.
It has also been measured in the lab.

Also, that is pure nonsense, there are plenty of natural phenomenon which you cannot feel or see. For example, X-rays, which used in medicine to visualise bones. Humans cannot sense all natural phenomenon.

This fella has a good website and explains the Moon phases.
https://www.flat-earth-moon-phases.com/

Nope.
He produces a model which fails to match reality.

For example, he shows "day 2 of the lunar cycle" where the moon appears full for the northern hemisphere and a tiny sliver for the southern.
Meanwhile, in reality, it would be a full moon for both the north and the south hemisphere.
So unlike the claim on the website that it is easily confirmed by simple observation; simple observations refutes the model.

Just like so many things with FE models, it works for the northern hemisphere to some extent but completely fails for the southern hemisphere.
For the southern hemisphere, according to this model you should only ever see a full moon during the middle of the day, meanwhile it is observed at night, with a new moon in the middle of the day (which it predicts should occur in the middle of the night).

But it also fails on another key point, the phases don't actually match.
The moon phase changes insignificantly during the day. Yet with the moon being a ball, when it is opposite the sun, then if it is due east or due west, it should appear as a half moon.

So during the "full" moon, assuming you are in the northern hemisphere.
You should see the moon "rise" as a slightly more than half moon in the east, proceed to the south of you, getting fuller as it does, and then get less full, ending as a slightly more than half moon in the west.
Instead, simple observation shows that it remains a full moon the entire time, indicating the sun and moon are much further away than in that model again refuting the model.

And a final issue (not for the model, just the ones I am pointing out here), the sun and moon are both above, which means it would never be full.
The only way for it to appear to be full is for you to be on a straight line between the sun and moon, so if the moon is above the horizon the sun must be below.
Yes, due to the size of the sun and moon you can be a little off, but not the 2000 miles you need in that model.
So again, simple observation refutes the model.

Another nut with Gravity which is classed as natural phenomena, anyhow natural phenomena you can either see it, feel it or both where as with our Magical Gravity you cannot see it or feel it there for it does not exist.
It only exists for the globe earth theory.

Sure we feel it, all the time. Besides that we can see it affecting everything equally, which is why we can use a single equation to show how objects fall to earth, calculate the path of the moon, sun and other planets, and way more.

You know that magnetism exists, right? It also pulls without strings, it is an unseeable force like gravity is, which is why we use observations of the affected objects to know it is there.

The only reason you reject gravity, is because it doesn't work on a flat earth, it is not because we can't observe it (because we can).

Quote from: Resonate101 on May 30, 2018, 08:36:29 PM

Sun and Moon work on electromagnetism

Care to elaborate?

Quote from: Resonate101 on May 30, 2018, 08:36:29 PM

anyhow natural phenomena you can either see it, feel it or both where as with our Magical Gravity you cannot see it or feel it there for it does not exist.

Really?
So you just float around in the sky?
I feel gravity all the time.
It has also been measured in the lab.

Also, that is pure nonsense, there are plenty of natural phenomenon which you cannot feel or see. For example, X-rays, which used in medicine to visualise bones. Humans cannot sense all natural phenomenon.

Quote from: Resonate101 on May 30, 2018, 08:36:29 PM

This fella has a good website and explains the Moon phases.
https://www.flat-earth-moon-phases.com/

Nope.
He produces a model which fails to match reality.

For example, he shows "day 2 of the lunar cycle" where the moon appears full for the northern hemisphere and a tiny sliver for the southern.
Meanwhile, in reality, it would be a full moon for both the north and the south hemisphere.
So unlike the claim on the website that it is easily confirmed by simple observation; simple observations refutes the model.

Just like so many things with FE models, it works for the northern hemisphere to some extent but completely fails for the southern hemisphere.
For the southern hemisphere, according to this model you should only ever see a full moon during the middle of the day, meanwhile it is observed at night, with a new moon in the middle of the day (which it predicts should occur in the middle of the night).

But it also fails on another key point, the phases don't actually match.
The moon phase changes insignificantly during the day. Yet with the moon being a ball, when it is opposite the sun, then if it is due east or due west, it should appear as a half moon.

So during the "full" moon, assuming you are in the northern hemisphere.
You should see the moon "rise" as a slightly more than half moon in the east, proceed to the south of you, getting fuller as it does, and then get less full, ending as a slightly more than half moon in the west.
Instead, simple observation shows that it remains a full moon the entire time, indicating the sun and moon are much further away than in that model again refuting the model.

And a final issue (not for the model, just the ones I am pointing out here), the sun and moon are both above, which means it would never be full.
The only way for it to appear to be full is for you to be on a straight line between the sun and moon, so if the moon is above the horizon the sun must be below.
Yes, due to the size of the sun and moon you can be a little off, but not the 2000 miles you need in that model.
So again, simple observation refutes the model.

Mate... there are videos of the sun rotating 360 degrees, for 24 hours a day at Antarctica.  If you are there (Antartica), you could not have a 360-degree view of the sun under the FE concept of the sun and moon.  It is impossible.  They simply do not get it, nor will they believe anything you show them.  To them, it's all a lie.  They will accept NASA descriptions of the Van Allen radiation belt but, vehemently aruge until death that everything else is all a lie.

All this crap about the sun floating above, below, sideways, or contra to anything logical you've known all your life, is nothing more than bullshit on a stick served up like a corndog 

Go to YouTube and search on "Testing Flattards" and "World of Batshit".  Just listen to both sides of the discussion.  It's better than NetFlix 

Quote from: Resonate101 on May 30, 2018, 08:36:29 PM

Another nut with Gravity which is classed as natural phenomena, anyhow natural phenomena you can either see it, feel it or both where as with our Magical Gravity you cannot see it or feel it there for it does not exist.
It only exists for the globe earth theory.

Sure we feel it, all the time. Besides that we can see it affecting everything equally, which is why we can use a single equation to show how objects fall to earth, calculate the path of the moon, sun and other planets, and way more.

You know that magnetism exists, right? It also pulls without strings, it is an unseeable force like gravity is, which is why we use observations of the affected objects to know it is there.

The only reason you reject gravity, is because it doesn't work on a flat earth, it is not because we can't observe it (because we can).

Just watch this discussion on Gravity 



Then, resume discussions