Do you believe Apollo 11 was a hoax?

Do you believe Apollo 11 was a hoax? All from: Quora, Do you believe Apollo 11 was a hoax?

Mark Shulmann, Grew up in Central Florida during the early space program.

It’s not a matter of belief.
It’s a matter of acceptance. The truth is that Apollo 11 — and the five other moon landings — happened. They happened whether you believe it or not.

The Moon hoax believers make a truly extraordinary claim: that for almost 50 years there continues to be a world-wide cover-up — involving hundreds of thousands of people and billions of dollars — to make it appear that humans landed on the Moon when, they claim, we never did. According to them, the cover-up continues to this day, despite the fact that the original reason for the cover-up is long gone; despite the fact that the U.S. government has gone through nine administrations from opposing parties, who can't seem to agree on anything, except apparently the need to continue this cover-up; and despite the fact that most -- maybe all -- of the people who supposedly started the cover-up are gone. They claim that the most well-documented event in human history was in fact the largest global cover-up in human history. Such a claim requires extraordinary evidence.

But there is no such evidence. Want to convince me? Fine. Let’s talk evidence. Here’s what might persuade me:

• I want to see a half dozen project managers from the Apollo program (a few are still around) in front of CBS cameras explaining that the whole thing was a hoax.
  
  
• I want to see the New York Times hold a press conference with the stacks of documentation that would have been required to pull off the hoax. (It would have been impossible to pull off a hoax of this magnitude without tons of documentation, and it’s impossible that some of this documentation wouldn’t still exist.)
  
  
• I want to see a letter in Werner von Braun's handwriting that says, "Wir können es nicht tun. Apollo wird nicht funktionieren. Wir müssen es vortäuschen."
  
  
• I want to see the FOIA request that produces the receipts for all the payoffs that would have been necessary.
  
  
• I want to see the declassified NASA budget that includes $50 million to pay for a sound studio and all the associated equipment.
  
  
• I want to see the memos to NASA and other governmental administrative staff telling them to look the other way on certain anomalies.
  
  
• I want to see some of the artifacts that were involved in creating the hoax. There would have been truckloads of equipment necessary for such a hoax.
  
  
• I want to see engineers from the project explain why the Moon landing supposedly wasn't going to work.
  
  
• I want to hear from people in the movie industry who can explain how it would have been possible with 1960s technology to fake the moon landing videos.
  
  
• I want to see a group of professional photographic experts confirm that the videos or photos were faked.
      I want a letter from a group of professional astronomers explaining that there was some aspect — ANY aspect — of the Moon landing that couldn't have worked.
  
  
• I want a couple of the surviving astronauts in front of an NBC camera saying, "Yeah, they made us lie."
  
  
• I want to see the directors from the Soviet Science Academy say, "Yes, we said we were tracking the American spacecraft, but actually we lied about it because we were being paid off by the American capitalists."
  
  
• I want to see testimonials from engineers from foreign countries who were helping on Apollo, and would have known if it were a hoax.

None of this evidence exists. None of it. Zero.

Through almost fifty years and nine U.S. administrations we have none of this evidence, nor anything like it. Pulling up a coverup of this magnitude would require enormous numbers of memos, documents, and other evidence, and that stuff just doesn’t go away. It is simply impossible that we would have seen none of this evidence after a cover-up of this magnitude.

Most significantly, the idea that each U.S. administration has covered for the previous administrations is preposterous. Can you imagine an incoming U.S. administration discovering that the previous administration from the opposing party had perpetrated a cover-up of this magnitude? Someone would have to be a whole new level of stupid to think the new administration would have continued the cover-up. In real life, they would have ratted out the previous administration in an instant.

Instead of the kind of evidence listed above, what we get is questions about radiation from people who know nothing about radiation; discourses on shadows and light diffraction from people who know nothing about photography or optics; and gotchas that the flag doesn't look quite right from people who know nothing about physics.

After years of sifting through this idiotic anomaly hunting, at some point you have to say, "That's enough. You had your chance to convince me, and all you've given me is rantings that are ignorant of science, technology, photography, and human behavior."

We’re long past that point. The Moon landings happened, thanks to the dedication of hundreds of thousands of ingenious and courageous people in the United States and across the world. Deal with it.

Nigel Arnot, Works in IT

Belief does not have to come into it at all. It’s a provable fact.
The best proof is that there are corner-cube reflectors on the moon, in the locations where NASA say the astronauts put them. A corner cube reflector is a large precision version of a reflector stud on a road. All light falling on it gets reflected back in the exact same direction it arrived from.

It’s possible for any reasonably well-resourced physics department with a moderately powerful laser and a decent telescope and a good optical filter to verify this. It’s been done as an undergraduate project. It’s been done by universities in countries that dislike the USA and would absolutely love to expose these corner-cube reflectors as a hoax.

But they can’t, because the laser light gets reflected back, which nothing natural can account for. So there are corner-cube reflectors on the moon, and unless you want to go down a truly loopy alien-overlords conspiracy theory rabbit hole, that fact means that we put them there.

Using nanosecond-accurate timing, you can measure the distance to the moon to an accuracy of a few feet … which is why they were put there. But that’s another story.

Douglas C. Miller

You forget that a lot of the moon-landing deniers are flat-earthers. If over all the centuries mankind has been deceived (except for a few very gifted savants) into believing that the earth is round when it is actually a flat disc, then pulling off the moon landing hoax would be child’s play. That is the intellectual level of the deniers…flat-earthers. For such as those,

your cogent argument is wasted, as they believe not in logic or facts, they believe in vast conspiracies.

It’s not a matter of belief.
It’s a matter of acceptance. The truth is that Apollo 11 was a hoax— and also the five other moon landings — didn't happen. They did not happen even if you  ''knew'' or believed they did happen.

I only will start reconsidering that the moonlandings happened if.....

1 A similar constructed lunar lander was able to land safely six times in succession during a live demonstration without falling sideways, or damaging a leg or anything nor creating a hole in the ground beneath it's rocket engine with similar specs.
Even if the circomstances cannot be replicated on earth, the landing device should be demontrated on earth without any real problems.
Remember....only '69-'72 constructions, technology and specs can be used during such demonstration.
No modern equivalents with far superiour technology and computing power.

2 An astronaut wearing a '69 spacesuit was able to survive a near vacuum chamber for 20+ hours with ease.

3 A Hasselblad Apollo camera with film containers was placed inside a vacuum chamber with varying ''moon'' temperatures for 70 hours and the developed film has similar quality compared to the Apollo footage

For starters it is not to much to ask for....is it ?

Typical flat earth denialist evidence free bullshit.
They landed on the moon came back and was a fantastic achievement given the era it took place. It just went to show what can be done if you have an almost unlimited budget.
Just go look at the numbers, billions by today’s reckoning.
I think it’s really sad that denialists pretend such an amazing human achievement took place, in the end they only rob themselves of being able to appreciate what humankind can actually achieve.

Typical flat earth denialist evidence free bullshit.
They landed on the moon came back and was a fantastic achievement given the era it took place. It just went to show what can be done if you have an almost unlimited budget.
Just go look at the numbers, billions by today’s reckoning.
I think it’s really sad that denialists pretend such an amazing human achievement took place, in the end they only rob themselves of being able to appreciate what humankind can actually achieve.

Typical American rhetoric....most of the world doesn't care for your American dreams that ruined modern society through ongoing consumerism,lust for money and global power.
Apollo fits perfectly in that agenda !!

It was your achievement created in a Hollywood basement to give people something to be optimictic about during home riots and a dirty war in 'Nam.
Ask the avarage inhabitant of this world if they support your fantasy achievements of the late sixties.
The numbers in the USA are growing by the day too.....people who indeed realise it was just a dream after all.
Go ask yourself and find out that the sceptics in 2018 are gaining the upperhand worldwide when the validity of Apollo is at stake....there is no going back with the growing awareness of the general public.

It’s not a matter of belief.
It’s a matter of acceptance. The truth is that Apollo 11 was a hoax— and also the five other moon landings — didn't happen. They did not happen even if you  ''knew'' or believed they did happen.

I only will start reconsidering that the moonlandings happened if.....

1 A similar constructed lunar lander was able to land safely six times in succession during a live demonstration without falling sideways, or damaging a leg or anything nor creating a hole in the ground beneath it's rocket engine with similar specs.
Even if the circomstances cannot be replicated on earth, the landing device should be demontrated on earth without any real problems.
Remember....only '69-'72 constructions, technology and specs can be used during such demonstration.
No modern equivalents with far superiour technology and computing power.

2 An astronaut wearing a '69 spacesuit was able to survive a near vacuum chamber for 20+ hours with ease.

3 A Hasselblad Apollo camera with film containers was placed inside a vacuum chamber with varying ''moon'' temperatures for 70 hours and the developed film has similar quality compared to the Apollo footage

For starters it is not to much to ask for....is it ?

A great deal of what you 'ask for' was done in the years '69-'72 and was extensively documented. Why would it be any more credible to you if it was repeated?

Quote from: Nightsky on January 04, 2018, 03:25:56 PM

Typical flat earth denialist evidence free bullshit.
They landed on the moon came back and was a fantastic achievement given the era it took place. It just went to show what can be done if you have an almost unlimited budget.
Just go look at the numbers, billions by today’s reckoning.
I think it’s really sad that denialists pretend such an amazing human achievement took place, in the end they only rob themselves of being able to appreciate what humankind can actually achieve.

Typical American rhetoric....most of the world doesn't care for your American dreams that ruined modern society through ongoing consumerism,lust for money and global power.
Apollo fits perfectly in that agenda !!

It was your achievement created in a Hollywood basement to give people something to be optimictic about during home riots and a dirty war in 'Nam.
Ask the avarage inhabitant of this world if they support your fantasy achievements of the late sixties.
The numbers in the USA are growing by the day too.....people who indeed realise it was just a dream after all.
Go ask yourself and find out that the sceptics in 2018 are gaining the upperhand worldwide when the validity of Apollo is at stake....there is no going back with the growing awareness of the general public.

American rhetoric?  You really are a confused piece of shit, aren't you.  It takes a really weak mind to be subject to believing such an epic amount of bullshit.

Every single thing that you use to survive today was invented and/or made possible by Americans.

Also, you do realize there numerous space agencies all around the globe that also have been to the moon and know for a fact that the US has been to the moon, right?

The "sceptics" are not gaining anything, lol...what fucking disorder do you have?  You think that because you are able to use the internet (an American invention) to come together that you are somehow going to change reality to agree with your delusions?  It doesn't work that way.

Duchy, your job was much easier a while ago.
Back when it was just NASA and the USSR.
BTW, why don't you ever bring up the USSR landing on the moon.
Bringing back rocks, I guess they must have faked it too.

Anyhoo, now there are multiple governments and private agencies going to space.
China landed on the moon.  Your job is just going to get tougher and tougher.
Good luck, I enjoy your posts.
Always good for a laugh.

American rhetoric?  You really are a confused piece of shit, aren't you.  It takes a really weak mind to be subject to believing such an epic amount of bullshit.

No need for namecalling if you want any form of credibility in return.

Every single thing that you use to survive today was invented and/or made possible by Americans.

Maybe i don't want to survive this way ?
I rather die than live such a shallow live of consumerism and nihilistic grandeur that has polluted this world after WW2.
We all die, but to die in such streched one dimensional fashion as displayed in modern society is a waste of time.

Also, you do realize there numerous space agencies all around the globe that also have been to the moon and know for a fact that the US has been to the moon, right?

Only 12 Americans set foot on the moon.....no one has ever repeated such feat.
But your national pride is blinding you.

The "sceptics" are not gaining anything, lol...what fucking disorder do you have?  You think that because you are able to use the internet (an American invention) to come together that you are somehow going to change reality to agree with your delusions?  It doesn't work that way.

I read about Bill Kaysing and Ralph Renee long before you ever realised there was such thing as a moon hoax.
The internet is only helping people to read what was available in the seventies and eighties and expand on it.

Your attitude shows you are not able to grasp the fact that many knowledgable people doubt the moonlandings.

Duchy, your job was much easier a while ago.
Back when it was just NASA and the USSR.
BTW, why don't you ever bring up the USSR landing on the moon.
Bringing back rocks, I guess they must have faked it too.

Anyhoo, now there are multiple governments and private agencies going to space.
China landed on the moon.  Your job is just going to get tougher and tougher.
Good luck, I enjoy your posts.
Always good for a laugh.

Thanks.....that is a nice way of communication instead of namecalling.....and of course i won't mind that you think i am deluded.

When the USA landed on the moon it was printed on the third page of the Pravda in Russia. Not many people know this, but it is quite important in relation to history and propaganda means.
The Russians confirmed the succesfull landings, albite not on the front page and accepted their momentous failure to beat the USA to the moon.
The spacerace was won by the arch enemy and the loss was taken with gnashing teeth.

If you read into history then one thing becomes obvious :
Totallitarian systems always create enemies and anything they say or claim about that enemy is part of an agenda that solely suits their own propaganda.
When The USA was at the gates of bagdad minister Mohammed Said al-Sahhaf claimed : "They are no where near Bagdad!
History is full of claims that deny reality when the sworn enemy has gained the upperhand.
The propaganda in the Sovjet Union about the USA was telling and deceitfull and visa versa.
Every oppertunity to paint the USA as a lying imperialistic evil force was exploited at will.

The most logical approach considering the past and present in the Sovjet Union was to at least deny the moonlandings on homesoil and through national media, claiming Americans were faking in Hollywood because that is what evil Americans do among the endless lists of absurd Russian claims in those decades.

But no......all of a sudden the USSR bends over and accepts defeat by it's sworn enemy.
This is unheard of in the history of mankind....i could provide many examples of the opposite.
Even today North Korea is making up stuff as they go to deny reality.
Again the far more logical approach for the USSR was to deny or silence the whole Apollo achievements in their national media.
Instead it was printed in the Pravda on page three !!!!!!

I believe the harvest in the USSR was ruined and the USA send large amounts of weeds through Alaska in those days as a return gift for such noble acknowledgements concerning Apollo.

I don't think delusion is something I'm qualified to deduce.
I think you're wrong but what ever.

I followed your narrative all the way.
Even had my idea of where you were going with it.
Which was the Soviets went completely against what they would normally do.
That means they were bought.

But then you finished with a sentence I frankly don't understand.
Oh well, but you still haven't broached the USSR bringing back moon rocks.

Do you believe Apollo 11 was a hoax? All from: Quora, Do you believe Apollo 11 was a hoax?

Quote

Mark Shulmann, Grew up in Central Florida during the early space program.

It’s not a matter of belief.
It’s a matter of acceptance. The truth is that Apollo 11 — and the five other moon landings — happened. They happened whether you believe it or not.

The Moon hoax believers make a truly extraordinary claim: that for almost 50 years there continues to be a world-wide cover-up — involving hundreds of thousands of people and billions of dollars — to make it appear that humans landed on the Moon when, they claim, we never did. According to them, the cover-up continues to this day, despite the fact that the original reason for the cover-up is long gone; despite the fact that the U.S. government has gone through nine administrations from opposing parties, who can't seem to agree on anything, except apparently the need to continue this cover-up; and despite the fact that most -- maybe all -- of the people who supposedly started the cover-up are gone. They claim that the most well-documented event in human history was in fact the largest global cover-up in human history. Such a claim requires extraordinary evidence.

But there is no such evidence. Want to convince me? Fine. Let’s talk evidence. Here’s what might persuade me:

• I want to see a half dozen project managers from the Apollo program (a few are still around) in front of CBS cameras explaining that the whole thing was a hoax.
  
  
• I want to see the New York Times hold a press conference with the stacks of documentation that would have been required to pull off the hoax. (It would have been impossible to pull off a hoax of this magnitude without tons of documentation, and it’s impossible that some of this documentation wouldn’t still exist.)
  
  
• I want to see a letter in Werner von Braun's handwriting that says, "Wir können es nicht tun. Apollo wird nicht funktionieren. Wir müssen es vortäuschen."
  
  
• I want to see the FOIA request that produces the receipts for all the payoffs that would have been necessary.
  
  
• I want to see the declassified NASA budget that includes $50 million to pay for a sound studio and all the associated equipment.
  
  
• I want to see the memos to NASA and other governmental administrative staff telling them to look the other way on certain anomalies.
  
  
• I want to see some of the artifacts that were involved in creating the hoax. There would have been truckloads of equipment necessary for such a hoax.
  
  
• I want to see engineers from the project explain why the Moon landing supposedly wasn't going to work.
  
  
• I want to hear from people in the movie industry who can explain how it would have been possible with 1960s technology to fake the moon landing videos.
  
  
• I want to see a group of professional photographic experts confirm that the videos or photos were faked.
      I want a letter from a group of professional astronomers explaining that there was some aspect — ANY aspect — of the Moon landing that couldn't have worked.
  
  
• I want a couple of the surviving astronauts in front of an NBC camera saying, "Yeah, they made us lie."
  
  
• I want to see the directors from the Soviet Science Academy say, "Yes, we said we were tracking the American spacecraft, but actually we lied about it because we were being paid off by the American capitalists."
  
  
• I want to see testimonials from engineers from foreign countries who were helping on Apollo, and would have known if it were a hoax.

None of this evidence exists. None of it. Zero.

Through almost fifty years and nine U.S. administrations we have none of this evidence, nor anything like it. Pulling up a coverup of this magnitude would require enormous numbers of memos, documents, and other evidence, and that stuff just doesn’t go away. It is simply impossible that we would have seen none of this evidence after a cover-up of this magnitude.

Most significantly, the idea that each U.S. administration has covered for the previous administrations is preposterous. Can you imagine an incoming U.S. administration discovering that the previous administration from the opposing party had perpetrated a cover-up of this magnitude? Someone would have to be a whole new level of stupid to think the new administration would have continued the cover-up. In real life, they would have ratted out the previous administration in an instant.

Instead of the kind of evidence listed above, what we get is questions about radiation from people who know nothing about radiation; discourses on shadows and light diffraction from people who know nothing about photography or optics; and gotchas that the flag doesn't look quite right from people who know nothing about physics.

After years of sifting through this idiotic anomaly hunting, at some point you have to say, "That's enough. You had your chance to convince me, and all you've given me is rantings that are ignorant of science, technology, photography, and human behavior."

We’re long past that point. The Moon landings happened, thanks to the dedication of hundreds of thousands of ingenious and courageous people in the United States and across the world. Deal with it.

Quote

Nigel Arnot, Works in IT

Belief does not have to come into it at all. It’s a provable fact.
The best proof is that there are corner-cube reflectors on the moon, in the locations where NASA say the astronauts put them. A corner cube reflector is a large precision version of a reflector stud on a road. All light falling on it gets reflected back in the exact same direction it arrived from.

It’s possible for any reasonably well-resourced physics department with a moderately powerful laser and a decent telescope and a good optical filter to verify this. It’s been done as an undergraduate project. It’s been done by universities in countries that dislike the USA and would absolutely love to expose these corner-cube reflectors as a hoax.

But they can’t, because the laser light gets reflected back, which nothing natural can account for. So there are corner-cube reflectors on the moon, and unless you want to go down a truly loopy alien-overlords conspiracy theory rabbit hole, that fact means that we put them there.

Using nanosecond-accurate timing, you can measure the distance to the moon to an accuracy of a few feet … which is why they were put there. But that’s another story.

Quote

Douglas C. Miller

You forget that a lot of the moon-landing deniers are flat-earthers. If over all the centuries mankind has been deceived (except for a few very gifted savants) into believing that the earth is round when it is actually a flat disc, then pulling off the moon landing hoax would be child’s play. That is the intellectual level of the deniers…flat-earthers. For such as those,

your cogent argument is wasted, as they believe not in logic or facts, they believe in vast conspiracies.

he set an impossible standard to make him 'believe' it was a hoax on his first point. So credibility is zero

ie
I want to see a half dozen project managers from the Apollo program (a few are still around) in front of CBS cameras explaining that the whole thing was a hoax.

Half a dozen = 6

Yet he says only a 'few' are still around. A few = 3. Therefore if all 3 fronted the cameras explaining the hoax he would not believe. Also why only CBS? What if they went to another outlet?

Even today North Korea is making up stuff as they go to deny reality.

As you flat earthers do to cover up reality.

Again the far more logical approach for the USSR was to deny or silence the whole Apollo achievements in their national media.
Instead it was printed in the Pravda on page three !!!!!!

I believe the harvest in the USSR was ruined and the USA send large amounts of weeds through Alaska in those days as a return gift for such noble acknowledgements concerning Apollo.

Why not start believing the truth sometime? It's much simpler and you don't have to make up fairy stories to explain so many simple things.

Simple things like beautiful sunrises:Do you or your flat earth mates ever venture outside without dark glasses and really see these things?

And sunsets:

Still, you don't care! All that consumes you is your paranoia about NASA!

It’s not a matter of belief.
It’s a matter of acceptance. The truth is that Apollo 11 was a hoax— and also the five other moon landings — didn't happen. They did not happen even if you  ''knew'' or believed they did happen.

I only will start reconsidering that the moonlandings happened if.....

1 A similar constructed lunar lander was able to land safely six times in succession during a live demonstration without falling sideways, or damaging a leg or anything nor creating a hole in the ground beneath it's rocket engine with similar specs.
Even if the circomstances cannot be replicated on earth, the landing device should be demontrated on earth without any real problems.
Remember....only '69-'72 constructions, technology and specs can be used during such demonstration.
No modern equivalents with far superiour technology and computing power.

2 An astronaut wearing a '69 spacesuit was able to survive a near vacuum chamber for 20+ hours with ease.

3 A Hasselblad Apollo camera with film containers was placed inside a vacuum chamber with varying ''moon'' temperatures for 70 hours and the developed film has similar quality compared to the Apollo footage

For starters it is not to much to ask for....is it ?

Even if I had the means to do that I wouldn't waste my time!

Douglas C. Miller

You forget that a lot of the moon-landing deniers are flat-earthers. If over all the centuries mankind has been deceived (except for a few very gifted savants) into believing that the earth is round when it is actually a flat disc, then pulling off the moon landing hoax would be child’s play. That is the intellectual level of the deniers…flat-earthers. For such as those,

your cogent argument is wasted, as they believe not in logic or facts, they believe in vast conspiracies.

Quote from: dutchy on January 04, 2018, 04:18:50 PM

Even today North Korea is making up stuff as they go to deny reality.

As you flat earthers do to cover up reality.

Quote from: dutchy

Again the far more logical approach for the USSR was to deny or silence the whole Apollo achievements in their national media.
Instead it was printed in the Pravda on page three !!!!!!

I believe the harvest in the USSR was ruined and the USA send large amounts of weeds through Alaska in those days as a return gift for such noble acknowledgements concerning Apollo.

Why not start believing the truth sometime? It's much simpler and you don't have to make up fairy stories to explain so many simple things.

Simple things like beautiful sunrises:

Clouds lit on the underside before sunrise

Sun's rays shining up on clouds before sunrise

Do you or your flat earth mates ever venture outside without dark glasses and really see these things?

And sunsets:

Quote from: rabinoz on January 03, 2018, 02:38:11 AM

Still, you don't care! All that consumes you is your paranoia about NASA!

Thanks for the beautifull images....really nice.

Care to answer my posts instead of nitpicking ?
Curious what you think about the Russians printing the American superiourity on page 3 of the Pravda !!

Quote from: Nightsky on January 04, 2018, 03:25:56 PM

Typical flat earth denialist evidence free bullshit.
They landed on the moon came back and was a fantastic achievement given the era it took place. It just went to show what can be done if you have an almost unlimited budget.
Just go look at the numbers, billions by today’s reckoning.
I think it’s really sad that denialists pretend such an amazing human achievement took place, in the end they only rob themselves of being able to appreciate what humankind can actually achieve.

Typical American<<incorrect>> rhetoric....most of the world doesn't care for your<<incorrect>> American<<incorrect>> dreams that ruined modern society through ongoing consumerism,lust for money and global power.
Apollo fits perfectly in that agenda !!

It was your<<incorrect>> achievement created in a Hollywood basement to give people something to be optimictic about during home riots and a dirty war in 'Nam.
Ask the avarage inhabitant of this world if they support your<<incorrect>> fantasy achievements of the late sixties.
The numbers in the USA are growing by the day too.....people who indeed realise it was just a dream after all.
Go ask yourself and find out that the sceptics in 2018 are gaining the upperhand worldwide when the validity of Apollo is at stake....there is no going back with the growing awareness of the general public.

Ask yourself why Nightsky would care about, "American rhetoric" or American dreams"!
And then ask yourself why we should call you an ignorant biased believer in any old conspiracy going.

Before you rave on with your NASAphobic rants you might have done better to find out more about who you are talking to.

Ask yourself why Nightsky would care about, "American rhetoric" or American dreams"!
And then ask yourself why we should call you an ignorant biased believer in any old conspiracy going.

Before you rave on with your NASAphobic rants you might have done better to find out more about who you are talking to.

If nightsky is an authority on whatever subject, i am sure she can handle things all by herself instead of having to rely on some sort of groupie.....yuk
You started this Apollo topic, so calling me out for being a NASAphobic is inappropriate this time around.
Sure.... any other topic i pollute with anti NASA sentiments validates such remarks.........but not this topic, so please pay a little more attention to your own topics.

You have posted several pictures, try to urge me to find out about nightsky or whatever ''who you are talking to'' refers to, but not a single decent reply so far.

Want to try again ?

Thanks for the beautifull images....really nice.

Thanks, but can you explain then on your pancake planet?
I'm really much more interested in the shape of the earth than your ravings about NASA, but mention Lunar Lsnding or NASA and up pops dutchy like the proverbial bad . . . . . . . .
 
I find it much easier to believe in satellites than you.
I was around at the time to hear Sputnik's beeps, you weren't and I was around at the time to see and hear the Apollo 11 live on TV, you weren't!

I have read of the enormous amount of research, planning, experiments and failures that went into the preparation for the successful Apollo mission's.
And there were failures too, the well publicised ones like:
AS-204, was to be the first manned mission of the United States Apollo program, but you know the result. It was renamed Apollo 1.
Then we all know Apollo 13 and the more minor setbacks.

Care to answer my posts instead of nitpicking ?
Curious what you think about the Russians printing the American superiourity on page 3 of the Pravda !!

Nope! But I'm sure you'll tell me what you imagine was in there minds.

Quote from: rabinoz on January 04, 2018, 05:19:04 PM

Ask yourself why Nightsky would care about, "American rhetoric" or American dreams"!
And then ask yourself why we should call you an ignorant biased believer in any old conspiracy going.

Before you rave on with your NASAphobic rants you might have done better to find out more about who you are talking to.

If nightsky is an authority on whatever subject, i am sure she can handle things all by herself instead of having to rely on some sort of groupie.....yuk
You started this Apollo topic, so calling me out for being a NASAphobic is inappropriate this time around.

Want to try again ?

Nope!

Quote from: dutchy on January 04, 2018, 05:12:42 PM

Thanks for the beautifull images....really nice.

Thanks, but can you explain then on your pancake planet?

The wonders of God's nature are puzzling at times, so i guess you want to go into the direction of a supposed shrinking sun on a flat plane instead of what's displayed in your pictures Am i warm ??
There are dozens of pictures with strange shaped and colored suns with green colors that globers claim is due to refraction and other phenomena.
I am well into it right now, but this topic is about Apollo and for once i am entitled to discuss my personal favourite topic at the proper threat.

I'm really much more interested in the shape of the earth than your ravings about NASA, but mention Lunar Lsnding or NASA and up pops dutchy like the proverbial bad . . . . . . . .

Accurate observations,..... no one denies that.
But in a simplyfied humoristic summary......
No spacerace, no Apollo moonlandings, no blue marble photograph, no conformation of the distances between orbiting globeearth and the synchronous and tidal locked moonrock in the heliocentric model.as proven fact.
Without the spacerace we only have observations and hypothesis and not solid conformation.
Take deep spacetravel (going to the moon fits that bill nicely) out of it and all current heliocentric claims have lost 95% of their scientific credibility.
Therefore i see it as my human duty to point out what evil cornerstone ( moon, mars, Hubble and deepspace satelite fantasies) we're dealing with.

I find it much easier to believe in satellites than you.

i am glad you said 'believe'.....i am always puzzled by the fact that people believe they were able to launch a satelite in the fifties and sixties without computer technology, solar panels for electricity and somehow calculated and controlled the exact altitude and speed of the rocket to deploy what looks like a trashcan that magically finds an inch perfect orbit ...      all done with good old technology and absent onboard computer navigation.
But i guess when things are in space, the magic powers of space are revealed too and 'space' is your personal guide towards a free orbit lane 

I was around at the time to hear Sputnik's beeps, you weren't and I was around at the time to see and hear the Apollo 11 live on TV, you weren't!

So the former was beeping during live tv  ?
The latter was pre recorded,not live, and a woman and hundreds in Western Australia ( so please refrain from comments that state otherwise)saw a coke bottle during their recorded version of a supposed live event.
Did you see the coke bottle too ? The tv studio received dozens of phonecalls of people who did !
And i was two at the time and cannot recall the pre recorded event.

I have read of the enormous amount of research, planning, experiments and failures that went into the preparation for the successful Apollo mission's.
And there were failures too, the well publicised ones like:
AS-204, was to be the first manned mission of the United States Apollo program, but you know the result. It was renamed Apollo 1.
Then we all know Apollo 13 and the more minor setbacks.

So i guess all technologies and data are preserved for the ages to come ?
Such research, efforts, accomplishments and knowledge is archived in the most sealed place imaginable ?
Noooooooo all technologies were destroyed according to  Don Pettit...... ain't that a shame.....
I suppose NASA and subcontractors didn't validate their own achievements much and didn't feel the urge to preseve all of it.
Wich makes your raving comments extremely misplaced, because people have the tendancy to preserve those things they know are extremely valueable from a historic perspective.
When extremely important things are 'destroyed' or 'lost' by the government or whatever large organisation we know what's the most logical and plausible explaination,.... don't we ?

Nope! But I'm sure you'll tell me what you imagine was in there minds.

I allready did in a lenghty post.
And i did it to debunk the 'the Russians would call it a day if America faked the missions'
I showed the opposite is 99.999999 % more likely.....
Any person with historical awareness understands this.

Quote from: rabinoz on January 04, 2018, 05:40:31 PM

I was around at the time to hear Sputnik's beeps, you weren't and I was around at the time to see and hear the Apollo 11 live on TV, you weren't!

So the former was beeping during live tv  ?

No, it wasn't, it was from a ham radio tuned to the 20.005 MHz of Sputnik I. Are you suggesting that those dastardly Russians had an some unknown way of simulating that radio signal all around the Globe to fade in and out at exactly the expected times.
No, you'll have to do a lot better than that.

The latter was pre recorded not live and a woman and hundreds in Western Australia ( so please refrain from comments that state otherwise)saw a coke bottle during their recorded version of a supposed live event.

What on earth are you raving on about?

Did you see the coke bottle too ? The tv studio received dozens of phonecalls of people who did !
And i was two at the time and cannot recall the precrecorded event.

Yes, I know you debunked everything in your own mind and I have learnt how to debate with a confirmed flat earther, "don't".
But, I do not need NASA, Lunar Missions or satellites to know that the earth is a Globe.

You are going to complain that I am "derailing" my own thread - and yes I am, but you will never really face the weaknesses of your flat earth ideas. All you seem to be trying to do is "destroy NASA", but that is futile as there are now about 70 space agencies including about 11 apart from NASA that have launched satellites. You really are fighting a losing battle!

So what about concentrating on your real issue - the shape of the earth?

I have never seen any modern flat earth model that comes anywhere near explaining sunrises and sunsets in either appearance of direction.
Most, though not all, of the photos about that sort thing are my own, so I know where and when they are taken.
I know that the sun rises from quite the wrong direction for your flat earth stays the same size (provided you remove the glare) as it moves across the sky till it sets in a direction and manner impossible on your flat earth.
There are many more observations about even the sun and moon that don't fit any close sun and moon flat earth.

But, all you seem to bother about is NASA, as if destroying NASA would make the earth flat - it won't.
And about you trip to Israel, why does Israel have a Space agency and it's own satellite launch facility (only for LEO "spy" satellites) if the earth is flat?

So, no I'm not going to waste my time trying to answer all your imagined issues with the lunar missions.
You can enjoy your delusions yourself but whether you are right or wrong makes no difference to the shape of the earth.

Bye bye.

Wow,... it looks like we are having a discussion in different universes.

You started a topic about Apollo
I replied accordingly
You want to know about sunsets on a flat plane
I said i want to stay on topic and did so
You seem to rather talk about the shape of this world instead and avoid any conversation that has anything to do with the very topic you started, because you don't want to discuss NASA but the shape of this world 

And i can understand why, because i think you are a decent and smart person in general.
And it must be cringeworthy to defend NASA and their ongoing list with lost and destroyed technologies.
I am very sure that deep down you also think that's bizare the least.

What better is it to refrain from a real conversation and redirect to the subjects you think you master ?

Wow,... it looks like we are having a discussion in different universes.

You started a topic about Apollo
I replied accordingly
You want to know about sunsets on a flat plane
I said i want to stay on topic and did so
You seem to rather talk about the shape of this world instead and avoid any conversation that has anything to do with the very topic you started, because you don't want to discuss NASA but the shape of this world 

And i can understand why, because i think you are a decent and smart person in general.
And it must be cringeworthy to defend NASA and their ongoing list with lost and destroyed technologies.
I am very sure that deep down you also think that's bizare the least.

Not at all! You seem to have spent a life-time of hatred for anything American and NASA, in particular, to build up you NASAphobia.

I don't have that problem, so I haven't bothered going into it in the depth you have, so I'm not going to even try to compete.
When I have look at individual issues, they all seem to present no real problems.

But, what I cannot fathom is why you even started out on this path of hatred and paranoia.

USA was not the first in space - the Russians were with Sputnik I on 4th Oct 1957 - I remember it well, it was my birthday!
USA were not the first to put a man into space -  the Russians were.
USA were not the first to (crash) land a spacecraft on the moon -  the Russians were in 1959 with Luna 2.
USA were not the first to make soft landings on the moon -  the Russians were in 1966 with Luna 9 and 13.
etc, etc!
And this is not NASA!

What better is it to refrain from a real conversation and redirect to the subjects you think you master ?

So, I see no point it trying to debate with you on your totally irrational hatred directed only at NASA.

Especially as I am not really concerned with space missions as a means of proving the earth a Globe.
Please tell me when your flat earth model started, because all I find before say Copernicus is evidence of a firm belief in the Globe.

I post this sort of thing, Beating All Idiotic Maps: Youtube TV « Reply #7 on: January 04, 2018, 08:33:53 PM » about
the Venerable Bede writing, "We call the earth a globe, not as if the shape of a sphere were expressed in the diversity of plains and mountains, but because, if all things are included in the outline, the earth's circumference will represent the figure of a perfect globe... For truly it is an orb placed in the centre of the universe; in its width it is like a circle, and not circular like a shield but rather like a ball, and it extends from its centre with perfect roundness on all sides." and
The 13th century French scholar, monk and astronomer Iohannes de Sacrobosco writing "THE EARTH A SPHERE. -- That the earth, too, is round is shown thus. The signs and stars do not rise and set the same for all men everywhere but rise and set sooner for those in the east than for those in the west; and of this there is no other cause than the bulge of the earth. Moreover, celestial phenomena evidence that they rise sooner for Orientals than for westerners. For one and the same eclipse of the moon which appears to us in the first hour of the night appears to Orientals about the third hour of the night, which proves that they had night and sunset before we did, of which setting the bulge of the earth is the cause."

Yet, you totally ignore that sort of thing, just to vent your hatred towards NASA.

No, Mr Dutchy, I'm not going to debate with a hate-filled person like yourself!

So, I see no point it trying to debate with you on your totally irrational hatred directed only at NASA.

Yet, you totally ignore that sort of thing, just to vent your hatred towards NASA.

No, Mr Dutchy, I'm not going to debate with a hate-filled person like yourself!

I am a bit puzzled Rabinoz....

You claim i am a hate- filled person that only wants to vent his unfounded irrational hatred towards NASA and you are not debating with such a hate-filled person like me.
Yet you seek every oppertunity to engage with me all around the forum.
Is my virtual odeur appealing to you ?

Or is it the sword of justice that dismantels NASA foundations built on the expertise of extreme war criminals, the bankaccount with taxpayers money, the absence of any return benefit except for placebo achievements...... that makes you fear what happens to all of your personal convictions if moonhoaxer's were right after all ?
And by calling me a hatefull and blind person you can redirect this inconvinient inner confrontation for the time being ?

Till next time Rabinoz when you defy once again that you are not going to debate with me !
Looking forward !

I've no reason to believe it was a hoax,  but no way to actually prove anything one way or the other.     

Unlike the shape of the earth which is very easily proved to be spherical with naked-eye observation and an understanding of simple geometry.     

Quote from: smokified on January 04, 2018, 03:48:11 PM

American rhetoric?  You really are a confused piece of shit, aren't you.  It takes a really weak mind to be subject to believing such an epic amount of bullshit.

No need for namecalling if you want any form of credibility in return.

Quote

Every single thing that you use to survive today was invented and/or made possible by Americans.

Maybe i don't want to survive this way ?
I rather die than live such a shallow live of consumerism and nihilistic grandeur that has polluted this world after WW2.
We all die, but to die in such streched one dimensional fashion as displayed in modern society is a waste of time.

Quote

Also, you do realize there numerous space agencies all around the globe that also have been to the moon and know for a fact that the US has been to the moon, right?

Only 12 Americans set foot on the moon.....no one has ever repeated such feat.
But your national pride is blinding you.

Quote

The "sceptics" are not gaining anything, lol...what fucking disorder do you have?  You think that because you are able to use the internet (an American invention) to come together that you are somehow going to change reality to agree with your delusions?  It doesn't work that way.

I read about Bill Kaysing and Ralph Renee long before you ever realised there was such thing as a moon hoax.
The internet is only helping people to read what was available in the seventies and eighties and expand on it.

Your attitude shows you are not able to grasp the fact that many knowledgable people doubt the moonlandings.

"Name calling" does not remove credibility.  That is just something little pussies that don't have an actual argument say to try and pretend they won something they clearly did not.  Also, calling you a confused piece of shit is an observation.  If you don't like it, change who you are.

You can always try suicide if you are unhappy with the life of luxury you have been provided.  It would seem to me that giving up the internet would be the end of your life anyways.  Do you actually think you are fooling anyone with that bullshit drivel?

The US, USSR and China have all been to the moon....I don't really expect you to be up to date on information though...you do actually believe the world is flat, afterall

The moon landings happened.  We have pictures of it from before CGI was even a thing.  There are 12 astronauts and 1000s of people who were involved.  You are really not that bright if you actually think a conspiracy like that would still exist.

The internet has just made you more stupid.  You are clearly not smart enough to be learning without supervision.

"Name calling" does not remove credibility. 

Of course it does.....i call it argument enhancers that insecure and emotionally unstable persons need to feel more secure about an otherwise weak position.

That is just something little pussies that don't have an actual argument say to try and pretend they won something they clearly did not.  Also, calling you a confused piece of shit is an observation.  If you don't like it, change who you are.

No no, please continue......it is enlightening.

You can always try suicide if you are unhappy with the life of luxury you have been provided.  It would seem to me that giving up the internet would be the end of your life anyways.  Do you actually think you are fooling anyone with that bullshit drivel?

That was not the purpose of my remarks..........and i don't care how ''anyone including you'' feels about what i wrote.

The US, USSR and China have all been to the moon....I don't really expect you to be up to date on information though...you do actually believe the world is flat, afterall

Nothing to add i guess.....

The moon landings happened.  We have pictures of it from before CGI was even a thing.  There are 12 astronauts and 1000s of people who were involved.  You are really not that bright if you actually think a conspiracy like that would still exist.

I think you should let go of all the negativity and start to explore what's wrong with the supposed moonlandings.
I am sure that when you would be that courageous a whole new level of understanding about this world would open up.

The internet has just made you more stupid.  You are clearly not smart enough to be learning without supervision.

You have quite a palette of insults 

You have quite a palette of insults 
[/quote]

Again, observations. 

ob·ser·va·tion
ˌäbzərˈvāSH(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
the action or process of observing something or someone carefully or in order to gain information.
"she was brought into the hospital for observation"
synonyms:   monitoring, watching, scrutiny, examination, inspection, survey, surveillance, consideration, study, review
"the patient has been brought in for observation"
2.
a remark, statement, or comment based on something one has seen, heard, or noticed.
"he made a telling observation about Hugh"
synonyms:   remark, comment, statement, utterance, pronouncement, declaration; More

Again, observations. 

ob·ser·va·tion
ˌäbzərˈvāSH(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
the action or process of observing something or someone carefully or in order to gain information.
"she was brought into the hospital for observation"
synonyms:   monitoring, watching, scrutiny, examination, inspection, survey, surveillance, consideration, study, review
"the patient has been brought in for observation"
2.
a remark, statement, or comment based on something one has seen, heard, or noticed.
"he made a telling observation about Hugh"
synonyms:   remark, comment, statement, utterance, pronouncement, declaration; More

But you wrote : ''You are clearly not smart enough to be learning without supervision.''
 Clearly :
in a clear manner; with clarity.
without doubt; obviously.

To draw the conclusion that i am clearly not smart enough to be learning without observation is a hasty one.

What does refer to  ''things'' ?
All there is to learn ?
Only stuff that relates to space achievements and the shape of this world ?

And supervision ?
You mean under the supervision of a teacher ?
The constant observation inside a closed mental institute ?
Or simply to accept the guidance of online forum members like yourself ?

See ? Your emotional state confuses you, so please be more specific so i can answer your observations far more accurately.

Thanks in advance

You're gonna have to wait awhile for his reply.

You're gonna have to wait awhile for his reply.

Into the corner i guess ?