Net Neutrality: WTF is it?

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TotesReptilian

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Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« on: November 25, 2017, 05:20:18 PM »
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When you go online you have certain expectations. You expect to be connected to whatever website you want. You expect that your cable or phone company isn’t messing with the data and is connecting you to all websites, applications and content you choose. You expect to be in control of your internet experience.

When you use the internet you expect Net Neutrality.

Net Neutrality is the basic principle that prohibits internet service providers like AT&T, Comcast and Verizon from speeding up, slowing down or blocking any content, applications or websites you want to use. Net Neutrality is the way that the internet has always worked.

-- https://www.savetheinternet.com/net-neutrality-what-you-need-know-now



Beware the propaganda denouncing net neutrality. It relies heavily on misrepresenting facts and straight-up lies.

Much of this propaganda is being posted on the Twitter feeds of the 3 FCC commissioners who want to remove net neutrality:

https://twitter.com/mikeofcc
https://twitter.com/AjitPaiFCC
https://twitter.com/BrendanCarrFCC

Examples of misleading articles pushing anti- net neutrality:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-net-neutrality-stirs-such-passion-1495230726
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/for-the-internet-we-need-federalism-not-anarchy/article/2641110
https://www.rollcall.com/news/opinion/internet-regulation-ted-cruz



Some common myths being pushed by anti- net neutrality propaganda:

1. The internet was perfectly fine during the "light touch" era of internet regulation, before Obama's heavy-handed net neutrality regulations.

The FCC has regulated ISP's with various net neutrality-like principles for a long time. The problem was that these regulations were not very explicit, consistent, and were on a shaky legal foundation. The 2010 FCC Open Internet Order's goal was to make those principles explicit. However, it did not survive it's day in court on a classification technicality. In order to rectify this, ISP's were classified as "common carriers", so they could be regulated under "Title II" common carrier regulations.

This representation of the issue as "light-touch" vs "Obama-era heavy regulations" is nothing but an attempt to gain support from Republican partisans.

2. "Net neutrality is the Fairness Doctrine. Will target conservative media."


Is anyone surprised that the Dumbass-in-Chief has no idea what net neutrality is? This doesn't make the tiniest lick of sense. If anything, the exact opposite is true. Removing net neutrality will give ISP's more power to control content served to their customers. Comcast owns MSNBC. AT&T recently announced plans to buy Time Warner, which owns CNN.

3. Net neutrality is overbearing government micromanagement of the internet.


Here are the principles of net neutrality. You can decide for yourself if it constitutes "overbearing micromanagement":

1. ISP's must disclose their basic network performance to customers. No misrepresenting network speeds or other terms of the contract.
2. No blocking anything lawful.
3. No discriminating among internet traffic. No slowing down Netflix traffic in favor of Amazon traffic, or youtube in favor of... other tubes.



Tortured metaphors in a futile effort to explain net neutrality to the technically un-inclined are highly encouraged in this thread.

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Crouton

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2017, 07:13:00 PM »
Yeah it's bad.  It's definitely a "call your congressmen" situation.  I've never heard these particular defenses.  I seriously doubt that anyone believes them.  What it comes down to is this administration once again is trying to butt-fuck 99.9% of the country to the benefit of %.1. 

The only way we can possibly stop this is by making so much noise that congress thinks their jobs are in jeopardy. 

Sadly if I were a betting man I'd say this thing is going to pass.
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Symptom

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2017, 07:15:33 PM »
Land of the free.
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markjo

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2017, 07:47:05 PM »
Do you think that this won't affect the rest of the internet?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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DuckDodgers

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2017, 07:56:33 PM »
The latest one I've heard is from libertarians who think ISPs should be allowed to manage their networks however they see fit. They also view net neutrality as coporate welfare for the content providers.
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TotesReptilian

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2017, 08:22:24 PM »
The latest one I've heard is from libertarians who think ISPs should be allowed to manage their networks however they see fit. They also view net neutrality as coporate welfare for the content providers.

Roads are corporate welfare for businesses! Privatize the highways!

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Crouton

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2017, 08:30:05 PM »
The latest one I've heard is from libertarians who think ISPs should be allowed to manage their networks however they see fit. They also view net neutrality as coporate welfare for the content providers.

I wonder if these same libertarians feel the same way about water and electricity.

That's what this comes down to. Should data be considered an essential utility? I say yes.
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Symptom

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2017, 08:36:01 PM »
Do you think that this won't affect the rest of the internet?

Yes, I'm honestly that stupid. But you already knew that.
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Bom Tishop

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2017, 09:21:38 PM »
I would chime in, but honestly have no knowledge on this subject for the most part
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Symptom

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2017, 10:16:12 PM »
Fear not BHS, I've got this. Ahem:

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Pezevenk

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2017, 01:27:22 AM »
There is no gray area here, this is just bad. If it passes, the power it gives to the few already very powerful businesses that control web content is borderline dystopian. Rarely has a business historically ever had so much power as, say, Google, this is pushing things too far.
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TotesReptilian

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2017, 09:37:05 AM »
There is no gray area here, this is just bad. If it passes, the power it gives to the few already very powerful businesses that control web content is borderline dystopian. Rarely has a business historically ever had so much power as, say, Google, this is pushing things too far.

Google is a small player among ISPs (for now). AT&T, Comcast, and Verizon are the big boys on the block.

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Crouton

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2017, 10:00:43 AM »
There is no gray area here, this is just bad. If it passes, the power it gives to the few already very powerful businesses that control web content is borderline dystopian. Rarely has a business historically ever had so much power as, say, Google, this is pushing things too far.

Google is a small player among ISPs (for now). AT&T, Comcast, and Verizon are the big boys on the block.

The fact that Comcast is backing this makes it look really bad by association. Comcast has a lower approval rating than the kkk. Unfortunately they're a monopoly in my area. It's them or learn how to use carrier pigeons.
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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2017, 10:11:25 AM »
Murican politic is even more retarded than it's citizens. Q.e.d.

Anyway, IF the worst case happend, couldn't you just use a vpn?
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markjo

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2017, 10:23:01 AM »
Anyway, IF the worst case happend, couldn't you just use a vpn?
Check me if I'm wrong, but don't you still need to go through your ISP to get at your VPN?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Crouton

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2017, 10:31:16 AM »
Anyway, IF the worst case happend, couldn't you just use a vpn?
Check me if I'm wrong, but don't you still need to go through your ISP to get at your VPN?

Under the new rules if the isp wishes to shut down a vpn or pretty much anything else then it's totally legal. Your only recourse is to use a competitor which allows it. Oh and also that competitor doesn't exist because the isp market in America is almost always a monopoly.

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2017, 10:38:18 AM »
Yeah of course, if the vpns get blocked it wouldn't work, but I think then you could still use a bridge.

But I don't think they would block vpns. And IF they wouldn't be blocked, it should work just fine, because your isp wouldn't see wether you access youtube or something else, right?
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TotesReptilian

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2017, 10:43:55 AM »
Murican politic is even more retarded than it's citizens. Q.e.d.

Hey, at least we don't have Theresa May over here proposing a ban on encryption.

Quote
Anyway, IF the worst case happend, couldn't you just use a vpn?

As a last resort for consumers? Sure. It tends to slow things down though, and doesn't do much to ensure an open and free market.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2017, 11:11:50 AM »
There is no gray area here, this is just bad. If it passes, the power it gives to the few already very powerful businesses that control web content is borderline dystopian. Rarely has a business historically ever had so much power as, say, Google, this is pushing things too far.

Google is a small player among ISPs (for now). AT&T, Comcast, and Verizon are the big boys on the block.

Not what I said. Google can pay to have more data alocated to its websites and less to any potential competitors. Other companies can't do that.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2017, 11:15:24 AM »
Without net neutrality the isps can make deals with some content providers to give them fast service and they can slow down the access to any competitors, or block it all together. Some people may think they wouldn't do this, but they have already done similar things in the past. AOL blocked emails critical of AOL, I think Comcast blocked gmail in Boston, and more that I can't think of at the moment. Anyway, there's no reason to trust any of these ISPs and many reasons not to trust them.
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Pezevenk

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2017, 11:15:36 AM »
Anyway, IF the worst case happend, couldn't you just use a vpn?
Check me if I'm wrong, but don't you still need to go through your ISP to get at your VPN?

Under the new rules if the isp wishes to shut down a vpn or pretty much anything else then it's totally legal. Your only recourse is to use a competitor which allows it. Oh and also that competitor doesn't exist because the isp market in America is almost always a monopoly.

Reminds me of my school. We had access to wifi but they had blocked pretty much everything on the internet so we started using VPNs. At some point they figured out we were doing that and the assholes started blocking the VPNs >:(
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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2017, 11:17:07 AM »
Murican politic is even more retarded than it's citizens. Q.e.d.

Hey, at least we don't have Theresa May over here proposing a ban on encryption.
You serious? Source?
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TotesReptilian

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2017, 12:23:06 PM »
Murican politic is even more retarded than it's citizens. Q.e.d.

Hey, at least we don't have Theresa May over here proposing a ban on encryption.
You serious? Source?

Sort of. I was exaggerating slightly.

As I understand it, she wants to limit what people are allowed to use encryption for, and/or to force companies to build a government backdoor into services that use encryption. All in the name of fighting terrorism of course.

http://www.businessinsider.com/home-secretary-amber-rudd-real-people-dont-need-end-to-end-encryption-terrorists-2017-8
https://boingboing.net/2017/06/04/theresa-may-king-canute.html

(Keep in mind that I don't keep a close eye on British politics, so I may be a bit out of the loop.)

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2017, 12:36:31 PM »
As far as I know, big hard drive companies already have a backdoor built in their harddrives, so the NSA can access the data in a snowden-like case.
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markjo

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2017, 12:40:46 PM »
Right, and Apple can unlock anybody's iPhone whenever law enforcement wants.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2017, 12:47:15 PM »
Right, and Apple can unlock anybody's iPhone whenever law enforcement wants.
Actually, there was that big law suit when the fbi wanted apple to unlock an iphone for them and they didn't do it.
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TotesReptilian

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2017, 12:53:41 PM »
As far as I know, big hard drive companies already have a backdoor built in their harddrives, so the NSA can access the data in a snowden-like case.

I've heard rumors to that effect (mostly about Intel and AMD), but I have no idea if they are true or not. It wouldn't surprise me though.

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2017, 01:00:59 PM »
As far as I know, big hard drive companies already have a backdoor built in their harddrives, so the NSA can access the data in a snowden-like case.

I've heard rumors to that effect (mostly about Intel and AMD), but I have no idea if they are true or not. It wouldn't surprise me though.
I found some stuff about it when I was researching about the dark net. I think (not 100% sure) that some big companies actually admit(ted) it.
But yeah, if you google search for "encrypted harddrive backdoor" you're most like directly & permanentely ond the nsa watchlist :D
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markjo

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2017, 01:06:40 PM »
Right, and Apple can unlock anybody's iPhone whenever law enforcement wants.
Actually, there was that big law suit when the fbi wanted apple to unlock an iphone for them and they didn't do it.
Ummm...  Yeah, I know.  Apple said that they designed the encryption so that even they couldn't break it.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Net Neutrality: WTF is it?
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2017, 01:34:17 PM »
Right, and Apple can unlock anybody's iPhone whenever law enforcement wants.
Actually, there was that big law suit when the fbi wanted apple to unlock an iphone for them and they didn't do it.
Ummm...  Yeah, I know.  Apple said that they designed the encryption so that even they couldn't break it.

Hmm... I never thought of Apple as a company with the decency to do that...
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