For all you Atheist and Spherical Earther’s - Does the bible have a lie

There are countless legends in all the world of a great flood that whipped out all of the earth, except of 1 family on a boat and the animals. Which proves that a flood did happen.

Numerous floods happened. None that were worldwide. All that these stories prove is that Noah's flood is just a variation of a myth that circulated around the mediterranean countries at the time, inspired by a real flood/tsunami.

The bible has no lies because it's fiction.
Star wars films contain no lies either.

So, in terms of veracity, we may agree that the bible, like any fiction work, has no lies but it doesn't contain truth.

The bible, like star wars, have many plausible bits but this don't imply that it reports past events.

It's a fact that the bible contains contradictions, and this invalidates it's value as an historic text.

For each contradiction we face the difficulty of determining which statement, if any, is true!

So the question must be reformulated:

What is true in the bible?

The bible has no lies because it's fiction.
Star wars films contain no lies either.

So, in terms of veracity, we may agree that the bible, like any fiction work, has no lies but it doesn't contain truth.

Some books are fiction: like Jona or Ijob.

Some are history books, but written from a biased perspective. It is often hard to say, where they tell the truth and where not. Also people back then did not distinguish history from legends.

Some are prayers like the Psalms. They are messages from humans to God, not the other way round.

Only the prophets, like Isaiah or Jeremiah, claim to contain words of God.

No, I gave you a link. Which links to a bunch of quotes from the Bible that contradict each other or are inconsistent. I don't understand why it's so hard for you to give it a look. And please stop with these massive letters.

You have to specify what the lie is exactly, is that so hard to do?

I will not check the post day, but tomorrow since I have some other work to do…


Find me the lie or else you are the liars

No lie yet.

NEXT, step right up folks, find me the lie people

Bible quote and specify exactly what the lie

Oh! One more!

Leviticus 18:22: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.


Complete and utter bullshit. Homosexuality is not an abomination. It's natural in many different species of animals, like dolphins or even lions.

Just because occurs on an infrequent basis does not make it natural.

Every sales brochure highlights the good and downplays the bad.

Typically it's over promise and under deliver.

Religion has the unique ability to over promise and never be held to account.

Quote from: CrazyPagan on April 22, 2017, 03:13:49 AM

Just doing some back of the envelope maths.

300 by 50 by 30 cubits makes the Ark about twice the length of a 747 jet.

or put another way about the size of the USS Nimitz.


I live in a universe where a ship that size simply could not be constructed using the techniques and materials at hand.
I appreciate that some people do.
I am happy for you to have such certainty in time of doubt and confusion.
If your reality makes it possible for a man to build a boat out of wood that would rival a nuclear powered aircraft carrier in size then fine.

But having built a wooden dingy on my own i would state, from personal experience and experimentation
to scale up to the size of the Ark is impossible.
It could not be done in one lifetime by one man, no matter how many sons he had helping.

This was built in I believe 4-6 years...



Fully functional and completely to scale.

Noah lived to be almost a 1000 years old...Nor does it say how many people helped build it, it he hired people etc etc. He had plenty of time to do it...He had a higher power send him the prints how to build it, we have a functioning replica to show it is sea worth (which we already knew)...So I don't see the problem.

As I said, historically the Bible is dead on the money...The only question to ask, were those who wrote the books mentally insane or not?

there are only 3 full scale ark replicas.

only one is really in water, but look how it is build:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan%27s_Ark#/media/File:Ark_Dordrecht_1.jpg

it is only a wooden facade on pontoons.

the one in Kentucky, made by the young earth creationist Ken Ham.

it sits on a concrete foundation and the structure has steel connection plates.

that shows me that even the people that build these replicas do not believe that the ark is real possible, they use modern technology the build it.
They only build these replicas to make money from gullible people.
Especially Ken Ham, he only promotes his themepark to make money and make a good live on the cost of other people.

. . . make money and make a good live on the cost of other people.

R E L I G I O N   ! ! !

there are only 3 full scale ark replicas.

only one is really in water, but look how it is build:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan%27s_Ark#/media/File:Ark_Dordrecht_1.jpg

it is only a wooden facade on pontoons.

the one in Kentucky, made by the young earth creationist Ken Ham.

it sits on a concrete foundation and the structure has steel connection plates.

that shows me that even the people that build these replicas do not believe that the ark is real possible, they use modern technology the build it.
They only build these replicas to make money from gullible people.
Especially Ken Ham, he only promotes his themepark to make money and make a good live on the cost of other people.

People hear just what they want to hear...

I have stated many times my distain for organized religion...I don't subscribe to it...But yes I get it, people who believe in a higher power or a religion are ignorant, below those who don't...

I will go beat rocks together shortly..

As for the ark replicas, there is a reason I only mentioned the one(because as far as I know he did not build it for profit, and covered most of the expenses himself, I think it was just a fun project for a ship builder), and I am fully away of how his and ham built theirs.

Something like Ham's...You realize there are codes for a public building..Not to mention investors. You think they would allow their money be spent on a design using questionable building practices? Even the remote possibility of the thing falling apart after 5 years would not be acceptable. So using a few modern safe guards is just business.

I suppose the pyramids are fake since we can't figure out how they were constructed without using modern building practices 

Quote from: Canadabear on April 24, 2017, 04:54:43 AM

there are only 3 full scale ark replicas.

only one is really in water, but look how it is build:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan%27s_Ark#/media/File:Ark_Dordrecht_1.jpg

it is only a wooden facade on pontoons.

the one in Kentucky, made by the young earth creationist Ken Ham.

it sits on a concrete foundation and the structure has steel connection plates.

that shows me that even the people that build these replicas do not believe that the ark is real possible, they use modern technology the build it.
They only build these replicas to make money from gullible people.
Especially Ken Ham, he only promotes his themepark to make money and make a good live on the cost of other people.

People hear just what they want to hear...

I have stated many times my distain for organized religion...I don't subscribe to it...But yes I get it, people who believe in a higher power or a religion are ignorant, below those who don't...

I will go beat rocks together shortly..

As for the ark replicas, there is a reason I only mentioned the one(because as far as I know he did not build it for profit, and covered most of the expenses himself, I think it was just a fun project for a ship builder), and I am fully away of how his and ham built theirs.

Something like Ham's...You realize there are codes for a public building..Not to mention investors. You think they would allow their money be spent on a design using questionable building practices? Even the remote possibility of the thing falling apart after 5 years would not be acceptable. So using a few modern safe guards is just business.

I suppose the pyramids are fake since we can't figure out how they were constructed without using modern building practices 

nice standard excuses.
the biggest ever build wooden ship, the Wyoming, was 140m long and it sank because of the problems that is was not stable enough to keep sealed.
the ark was suppose to be 510m long, that is 3.6 time the length of the Wyoming.
that also is a prove that a Ark was not possible.

the pyramids can be explained how they did build them.
you are only not informed enough maybe you should read as much religious books and more scientific books.

Quote

No, I gave you a link. Which links to a bunch of quotes from the Bible that contradict each other or are inconsistent. I don't understand why it's so hard for you to give it a look. And please stop with these massive letters.

You have to specify what the lie is exactly, is that so hard to do?

I will not check the post day, but tomorrow since I have some other work to do…


Find me the lie or else you are the liars

No lie yet.

NEXT, step right up folks, find me the lie people

Bible quote and specify exactly what the lie

YOU SEEM REALLY ANGRY, PLEASE DON'T BITE ME!!!

It would be better if you just checked some yourself. Maybe that would make you think a bit. Yes, I can specify one. But I'm bored now. I'll do it later. Or maybe someone else can check the list and specify one.

nice standard excuses.
the biggest ever build wooden ship, the Wyoming, was 140m long and it sank because of the problems that is was not stable enough to keep sealed.
the ark was suppose to be 510m long, that is 3.6 time the length of the Wyoming.
that also is a prove that a Ark was not possible.

the pyramids can be explained how they did build them.
you are only not informed enough maybe you should read as much religious books and more scientific books.

A standard excuse that a wooden, rectangular box cannot be built and will not float.

Please...

the pyramids can be explained how they did build them.
you are only not informed enough maybe you should read as much religious books and more scientific books.

Lol... There is another calling me stupid...What is your education level? What do you do for a living?

 Is there a handbook that all athiest must read and sign off on before being allowed in the group?

Repeat the word facts and evidence no matter if there are facts and evidence....Use the word science over and over....Call them stupid...Call ignorant...Call them weak minded...Call them loons....Rince and repeat.

Getting kind of annoying and moderately sad, I have attempted to have normal and neutral conversations with such people and it always resorts to that.

As for the ark reproductions.... It's​ just Reality when you are dealing with a business. The ship builder, I am sure he had only so much time and money to waste on a project not intended to make money...Again, just Reality. I am sure if he had a few centuries to build it things would be different.

As for how the pyramids were built...Did this come from the same "facts" bin macro evolution​ and Origins "facts" come from? I would throw that bin away....(We only have speculation how it could have been done, nothing has been proven yet, all attempts so far has failed)...

Quote from: Canadabear on April 24, 2017, 09:42:25 AM

the pyramids can be explained how they did build them.
you are only not informed enough maybe you should read as much religious books and more scientific books.

Lol... There is another calling me stupid...What is your education level? What do you do for a living?

 Is there a handbook that all athiest must read and sign off on before being allowed in the group?

Repeat the word facts and evidence no matter if there are facts and evidence....Use the word science over and over....Call them stupid...Call ignorant...Call them weak minded...Call them loons....Rince and repeat.

Getting kind of annoying and moderately sad, I have attempted to have normal and neutral conversations with such people and it always resorts to that.

As for the ark reproductions.... It's​ just Reality when you are dealing with a business. The ship builder, I am sure he had only so much time and money to waste on a project not intended to make money...Again, just Reality. I am sure if he had a few centuries to build it things would be different.

As for how the pyramids were built...Did this come from the same "facts" bin macro evolution​ and Origins "facts" come from? I would throw that bin away....(We only have speculation how it could have been done, nothing has been proven yet, all attempts so far has failed)...

Modern man could erect the pyramids in less than five years, no problem.

The pyramids were poured in place, using a form of concrete.

And the ark was built over a period of a hundred and twenty years.

It was made of wood, was shaped as a rectangular box, would have easily floated, and its draught line was such as to render it unsinkable, even in the roughest of waters.

Quote from: Canadabear on April 24, 2017, 09:42:25 AM

the pyramids can be explained how they did build them.
you are only not informed enough maybe you should read as much religious books and more scientific books.

Lol... There is another calling me stupid...What is your education level? What do you do for a living?

i am and design Engineer and design machines that supports the assembly of car.
that also includes everything from first design thru the organisation of the fabrication till final setup of our machines.

what is your education and what do you do for living?

 Is there a handbook that all athiest must read and sign off on before being allowed in the group?

no not a handbook we only use our common sense and think critical and do not believe any magical bullshit that is written over 1000 years ago.

Repeat the word facts and evidence no matter if there are facts and evidence....Use the word science over and over....Call them stupid...Call ignorant...Call them weak minded...Call them loons....Rince and repeat.

Getting kind of annoying and moderately sad, I have attempted to have normal and neutral conversations with such people and it always resorts to that.

and how do you normally address questions for evidence for you claims?

As for the ark reproductions.... It's​ just Reality when you are dealing with a business. The ship builder, I am sure he had only so much time and money to waste on a project not intended to make money...Again, just Reality. I am sure if he had a few centuries to build it things would be different.

you can build as long as you want on a boot, you can not change the fact that the wooden planks are moving against each other and that you can keep the boot floating, especially if there are only 8 people on board.
even to take care of all the animals is impossible for 8 people. look how many people work at a zoo.

As for how the pyramids were built...Did this come from the same "facts" bin macro evolution​ and Origins "facts" come from? I would throw that bin away....(We only have speculation how it could have been done, nothing has been proven yet, all attempts so far has failed)...

that is the way you religious people think, simply throw away the evidence that does not fit to your believe.
if you want to do that than you also have to throw out all the religious speculations.
for example: my point with the 8 person for taking care of all the animals, the argument that ark believers than come up is that god led the animals sleep and therefore they did not to be feed and their shit did not be taken care of.
that is also speculation and than has to be thrown out.

there are evidence that a ark is impossible, that it is possible is only written in a over 1000 year old book.

Quote from: Babyhighspeed on April 24, 2017, 10:41:25 AM

Quote from: Canadabear on April 24, 2017, 09:42:25 AM

the pyramids can be explained how they did build them.
you are only not informed enough maybe you should read as much religious books and more scientific books.

Lol... There is another calling me stupid...What is your education level? What do you do for a living?

 Is there a handbook that all athiest must read and sign off on before being allowed in the group?

Repeat the word facts and evidence no matter if there are facts and evidence....Use the word science over and over....Call them stupid...Call ignorant...Call them weak minded...Call them loons....Rince and repeat.

Getting kind of annoying and moderately sad, I have attempted to have normal and neutral conversations with such people and it always resorts to that.

As for the ark reproductions.... It's​ just Reality when you are dealing with a business. The ship builder, I am sure he had only so much time and money to waste on a project not intended to make money...Again, just Reality. I am sure if he had a few centuries to build it things would be different.

As for how the pyramids were built...Did this come from the same "facts" bin macro evolution​ and Origins "facts" come from? I would throw that bin away....(We only have speculation how it could have been done, nothing has been proven yet, all attempts so far has failed)...

Modern man could erect the pyramids in less than five years, no problem.

The pyramids were poured in place, using a form of concrete.

And the ark was built over a period of a hundred and twenty years.

It was made of wood, was shaped as a rectangular box, would have easily floated, and its draught line was such as to render it unsinkable, even in the roughest of waters.

talk with a ship engineer about the forces that act on a ship at rough see:

that is the way you religious people think, simply throw away the evidence that does not fit to your believe.
if you want to do that than you also have to throw out all the religious speculations.
for example: my point with the 8 person for taking care of all the animals, the argument that ark believers than come up is that god led the animals sleep and therefore they did not to be feed and their shit did not be taken care of.
that is also speculation and than has to be thrown out.

there are evidence that a ark is impossible, that it is possible is only written in a over 1000 year old book.

Incorrect.

So, to confirm, you are denying animals hibernate?

Even idiot bears...

I wish you would hibernate.

talk with a ship engineer about the forces that act on a ship at rough see:

I have been at sea.

I know what forces act on a ship.

I'm an engineer...what is your education and what do you do for living?

You will not believe it (though some do) 

Quote from: Canadabear on April 24, 2017, 11:09:51 AM

that is the way you religious people think, simply throw away the evidence that does not fit to your believe.
if you want to do that than you also have to throw out all the religious speculations.
for example: my point with the 8 person for taking care of all the animals, the argument that ark believers than come up is that god led the animals sleep and therefore they did not to be feed and their shit did not be taken care of.
that is also speculation and than has to be thrown out.

there are evidence that a ark is impossible, that it is possible is only written in a over 1000 year old book.

Incorrect.

So, to confirm, you are denying animals hibernate?

Even idiot bears...

I wish you would hibernate.

show me a hibernating Lion, Monkey, Kangoroo ...

Quote from: Canadabear on April 24, 2017, 11:12:26 AM

talk with a ship engineer about the forces that act on a ship at rough see:

I have been at sea.

I know what forces act on a ship.

and you really believe a wooden rectangular box.

as the rectangular box is a not very stable shape and can easily be crushed.

yet . . .

I don't get this. I haven't met many christians who still believe in Noah's ark, or Adam and Eve, or are creationists in real life. This feels very weird, it seems like every christian here is adamant in his belief of these tales.

I don't get this. I haven't met many christians who still believe in Noah's ark, or Adam and Eve, or are creationists in real life. This feels very weird, it seems like every christian here is adamant in his belief of these tales.

Apparently you have not had a lot of contact with Christians in America.

Quote from: Canadabear on April 24, 2017, 11:09:51 AM

I'm an engineer...what is your education and what do you do for living?

You will not believe it (though some do) 

It's because I actually posted up proof instead of just saying it 

Truth is easy

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on April 24, 2017, 12:34:17 PM

I don't get this. I haven't met many christians who still believe in Noah's ark, or Adam and Eve, or are creationists in real life. This feels very weird, it seems like every christian here is adamant in his belief of these tales.

Apparently you have not had a lot of contact with Christians in America.

No I haven't. But I've had plenty of contact with christians in general (almost everyone I know).

Quote from: FalseProphet on April 24, 2017, 11:16:51 AM

Quote from: Canadabear on April 24, 2017, 11:09:51 AM

I'm an engineer...what is your education and what do you do for living?

You will not believe it (though some do) 

It's because I actually posted up proof instead of just saying it 

Truth is easy

You posted your tax returns?

what is your education and what do you do for living?

I have already posted up everything along with proof (customized to the request of certain posters) to back it up (which I am only one of two people to do that here I am aware of)...False prophet's comments is a prime example of an athiest nature, no matter what evidence is provided, it will be rejected if it doesn't meet the mold...(I am supposed to be an ignorant, uneducated loser for example)

If you care, I can share again...Though my whole point was to say I have read just a few "scientific" books in my time.

no not a handbook we only use our common sense and think critical and do not believe any magical bullshit that is written over 1000 years ago.

So they just create their own fairytale and call it a fact lol. Least I admit mine is a belief based off circumstantial evidence.

and how do you normally address questions for evidence for you claims?

Not by belittling people...Even when attacked I try to restrain until I lose my patience.

that is the way you religious people think, simply throw away the evidence that does not fit to your believe.
if you want to do that than you also have to throw out all the religious speculations.
for example: my point with the 8 person for taking care of all the animals, the argument that ark believers than come up is that god led the animals sleep and therefore they did not to be feed and their shit did not be taken care of.
that is also speculation and than has to be thrown out.

there are evidence that a ark is impossible, that it is possible is only written in a over 1000 year old book.

What did this rant have to do with the fact you said we know how the Egyptians built the pyramids when we do not?

You posted your tax returns?

Lol...What? I guess we are talking about two different things here?

We were talking about profession and education

Quote from: crutonius on April 24, 2017, 12:37:31 PM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on April 24, 2017, 12:34:17 PM

I don't get this. I haven't met many christians who still believe in Noah's ark, or Adam and Eve, or are creationists in real life. This feels very weird, it seems like every christian here is adamant in his belief of these tales.

Apparently you have not had a lot of contact with Christians in America.

No I haven't. But I've had plenty of contact with christians in general (almost everyone I know).

A large portion of Christians in America are Evangelical, who tend to take the Bible very literally. They generally believe in all those things.

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on April 24, 2017, 12:43:02 PM

Quote from: crutonius on April 24, 2017, 12:37:31 PM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on April 24, 2017, 12:34:17 PM

I don't get this. I haven't met many christians who still believe in Noah's ark, or Adam and Eve, or are creationists in real life. This feels very weird, it seems like every christian here is adamant in his belief of these tales.

Apparently you have not had a lot of contact with Christians in America.

No I haven't. But I've had plenty of contact with christians in general (almost everyone I know).

A large portion of Christians in America are Evangelical, who tend to take the Bible very literally. They generally believe in all those things.

Are "middle ground" christians so uncommon?