Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth

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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2017, 12:45:35 AM »
Whats happened to his saying about "Obama and Hillary created to ISIS?". he is a shameless hypocritical.

Trump is playing 4d chess, he can't just oust all the corruption in government in his first month, chill man.
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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2017, 07:05:42 AM »
Yeah, the guy who said this is playing 4D chess.

"Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart—you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us."


OK, donnie.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 07:14:08 AM by JimmyTheCrab »
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Twerp

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2017, 10:42:34 AM »
I am no Trump fan but surely you must know that when most people make a lengthy speech it looks odd when written down verbatim. (Trump may jump around a little more than average.) By using this method to make him look stupid you are confirming one of the points he is making.
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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2017, 10:53:44 AM »
I doubt Trump knows much of anything. He runs entirely on what he wants to be facts, and everyone's too scared to say different. I expect he thinks the world is a perfect sphere and wouldn't want to be corrected by either side.
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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2017, 01:45:38 PM »
I am no Trump fan but surely you must know that when most people make a lengthy speech it looks odd when written down verbatim.
Especially when it's a single run-on stream-of-consciousness sentence that is effectively rambling nonsense.

Quote
By using this method to make him look stupid you are confirming one of the points he is making.
He was making a point?
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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2017, 01:54:19 PM »
I am no Trump fan but surely you must know that when most people make a lengthy speech it looks odd when written down verbatim. (Trump may jump around a little more than average.) By using this method to make him look stupid you are confirming one of the points he is making.

Yeah.

Give the guy a chance.

Hillary is no better.

http://hillaryclintonquotes.tumblr.com/
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 01:57:37 PM by disputeone »
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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2017, 02:04:46 PM »
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Give the guy a chance.
How many would you suggest?
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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2017, 02:43:58 PM »
For context, I am  a conspiracy nut, I am not happy with the official explanation of the events on September eleventh 2001. Especially the fall acceleration of building seven and the way the planes flew straight through hardened structural steel, the way the fires spread down the elevator shafts, I could go on for pages

Bush, Obama and Hillary's hands are filthy with the blood of innocents and armed with weapons of mass deception.

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/03/26/body-count-report-reveals-least-13-million-lives-lost-us-led-war-terror

I am very happy there is a change of leadership, the fact that the people who were in power are doing absolutely everything they can to discredit him and keep the balance of power on their side just makes me support him more.

Do I support everything he has ever said?
No.
Do I support everything anyone has ever said?
No.

I am probably just crazy but I have never heard an acceptable explanation for many of my issues here.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 02:46:58 PM by disputeone »
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Twerp

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2017, 03:54:21 PM »
By using this method to make him look stupid you are confirming one of the points he is making.
He was making a point?

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2017, 05:19:04 PM »
By using this method to make him look stupid you are confirming one of the points he is making.
He was making a point?

Quote
if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number

But "they" don't even have to try. He does a number on himself! 
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Rayzor

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2017, 07:22:18 PM »
I am probably just crazy but I have never heard an acceptable explanation for many of my issues here.

You just answered your own question. 

Trump is a big fan of  Alex Jones infowars,  I suspect Jones is a closet flat earther,  but then  again Jones  is all kinds of batshit crazy.   I get the feeling that Trump just get's off on trolling everyone. 
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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2017, 07:25:48 PM »
I am probably just crazy but I have never heard an acceptable explanation for many of my issues here.

You just answered your own question. 

Trump is a big fan of  Alex Jones infowars,  I suspect Jones is a closet flat earther,  but then  again Jones  is all kinds of batshit crazy.   I get the feeling that Trump just get's off on trolling everyone.

I don't listen to anything that Alex Jones says.

Please, instead of calling me crazy explain why/how building 7 fell at gravitational acceleration.

If you want to say "I don't know and I don't want to know." That is just fine by me.

Still waiting for anyone to explain that actually. However I'm sure calling people crazy is better than facts logic science and debate amirite?
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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2017, 07:29:42 PM »
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Rayzor

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2017, 07:31:17 PM »
Please, instead of calling me crazy explain why/how building 7 fell at gravitational acceleration.

If you want to say "I don't know and I don't want to know." That is just fine by me.

Still waiting for anyone to explain that actually. However I'm sure calling people crazy is better than facts logic science and debate amirite?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056088/Footage-kills-conspiracy-theories-Rare-footage-shows-WTC-7-consumed-fire.html

Please understand the logical core of the problem.   

It is logically IMPOSSIBLE to disprove conspiracy,   simply because anything that disproves conspiracy can simply be part of the conspiracy.  It's a logical mind trap and you appear to have fallen into it's grasp.

Repeat after me...  conspiracy can only ever be proven, it can never be disproven.   
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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2017, 07:38:48 PM »
That wasnt what I asked, here let me phrase it better.

How does a structure, I'll give you up to an 80% weakened structure because whatever.

How does a structure with an underlying structure supporting it fall at gravitational acceleration?

Cause your last post sounded a whoole lot like.

Quote
I don't know and I don't want to know.

That article does not answer my question and is a strawman argument, we are not arguing whether the building should have fallen but at what acceleration should of it fell.

For clarity.

How does a structure with an underlying structure supporting it fall at gravitational acceleration?

If you want to say "I don't know and I don't want to know." That is just fine by me.

Good luck, here is the same link as you are being condescending instead of debating.

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/1DKin/Lesson-1/Acceleration
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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2017, 07:39:49 PM »
Do you know what Skeptic really means?
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Rayzor

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2017, 07:48:16 PM »
Do you know what Skeptic really means?

Yes,  as it happens,  and  obviously physics is not your strong suit.   

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a3524/4278874/

WTC 7 collapse followed the laws of physics.  You need to study a bit more deeply.


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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2017, 08:03:26 PM »
WTC 7 collapse followed the laws of physics.  You need to study a bit more deeply.

Obviously it did, its just what circumstances led to its fall at gravitational acceleration.

I will ask one more time then accept that you are holding both hands over your ears and closing your eyes.

I am patient with this but if you just want to call me stupid instead of debating then I have no interest in this discussion.

Now, try to answer, use your words.

How does a structure with an underlying structure supporting it fall at gravitational acceleration?

If you want to say "I don't know and I don't want to know." That is just fine by me.
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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2017, 08:06:49 PM »
For context and anyone who is genuinely interested.





http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/1DKin/Lesson-1/Acceleration

How does a structure with an underlying structure supporting it fall at gravitational acceleration?

Sorry for hijacking the thread I am done now.
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Rayzor

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2017, 08:10:44 PM »
WTC 7 collapse followed the laws of physics.  You need to study a bit more deeply.

Obviously it did, its just what circumstances led to its fall at gravitational acceleration.

I will ask one more time then accept that you are holding both hands over your ears and closing your eyes.

I am patient with this but if you just want to call me stupid instead of debating then I have no interest in this discussion.

Now, try to answer, use your words.

How does a structure with an underlying structure supporting it fall at gravitational acceleration?

If you want to say "I don't know and I don't want to know." That is just fine by me.

You are starting from an assumption that is invalid,  and confusing gravitational acceleration with free fall.  I can guarantee that gravitational acceleration was what caused the collapse of WTC7.

I know why and how WTC7 collapsed and it wasn't free-fall which is where you are being misled.

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2017, 08:12:58 PM »




One more time because you havent answered yet, read back and see for yourself how this looks.

How does a structure with an underlying structure supporting it fall at gravitational acceleration?

Honestly I'm done now.
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Rayzor

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2017, 08:14:36 PM »
How does a structure with an underlying structure supporting it fall at gravitational acceleration?

Because it simply cannot fall any other way.   That's what falling means.

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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2017, 08:18:12 PM »
How does a structure with an underlying structure supporting it fall at gravitational acceleration?

Because it simply cannot fall any other way.   That's what falling means.

Drop a bowling ball through multiple sheets of paper, does the bowling ball fall at "free-fall" or is it slowed down as it encounters the paper?

Lol.

Now imagine that paper is structural steel...
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 08:20:00 PM by disputeone »
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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2017, 08:50:43 PM »
How does a structure with an underlying structure supporting it fall at gravitational acceleration?

Because it simply cannot fall any other way.   That's what falling means.

Drop a bowling ball through multiple sheets of paper, does the bowling ball fall at "free-fall" or is it slowed down as it encounters the paper?

Lol.

Now imagine that paper is structural steel...

Imagine also that the structural steel is also falling before being hit by the bowling ball.     

The David Chandler videos you posted don't support your argument,    nor  do they support the video title  "WTC7: NIST Finally Admits Freefall"  I didn't see NIST admit any such thing, all I saw was some dispute over video timing amounting to a 1.5 second difference. 

If you want to rephrase your question as,  "How does a structure with an underlying structure supporting it fall at  free-fall acceleration?"   My answer is that the supporting structure is also falling.

Taking your bowling ball analogy,  if the bowling ball is sitting on something that collapses underneath it,  what rate does the bowling ball fall at? 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 08:53:55 PM by Rayzor »
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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2017, 09:10:25 PM »
Quote
Taking your bowling ball analogy,  if the bowling ball is sitting on something that collapses underneath it,  what rate does the bowling ball fall at?

It depends on the structural integrity of the building, if the structural integrity is zero then it will fall at gravitational acceleration, any more strength than zero and the rate of the collapse will be proportionately slower.

Kudos for debating me on this, most people won't.
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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2017, 09:19:34 PM »
The David Chandler videos you posted don't support your argument,    nor  do they support the video title  "WTC7: NIST Finally Admits Freefall"  I didn't see NIST admit any such thing, all I saw was some dispute over video timing amounting to a 1.5 second difference.

Quote from: NIST
In a video, it appears that WTC 7 is descending in free fall, something that would not occur in the structural collapse that you describe. How can you ignore basic laws of physics?
In the draft WTC 7 report (released Aug. 21, 2008; available at http://wtc.nist.gov/media/NIST_NCSTAR_1A_for_public_comment.pdf), NIST stated that the north face of the building descended 18 stories (the portion of the collapse visible in the video) in 5.4 seconds, based on video analysis of the building collapse. This time period is 40 percent longer than the 3.9 seconds this process would have taken if the north face of the building had descended solely under free fall conditions. During the public comment period on the draft report, NIST was asked to confirm this time difference and define the reasons for it in greater detail.
To further clarify the descent of the north face, NIST recorded the downward displacement of a point near the center of the roofline from first movement until the north face was no longer visible in the video. Numerical analyses were conducted to calculate the velocity and acceleration of the roofline point from the time-dependent displacement data. The instant at which vertical motion of the roofline first occurred was determined by tracking the numerical value of the brightness of a pixel (a single element in the video image) at the roofline. This pixel became brighter as the roofline began to descend because the color of the pixel started to change from that of the building façade to the lighter color of the sky.
The approach taken by NIST is summarized in Section 3.6 of the final summary report, NCSTAR 1A (released Nov. 20, 2008; available at http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201A.pdf) and detailed in Section 12.5.3 of NIST NCSTAR 1-9 (available at http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201-9%20Vol%202.pdf).
The analyses of the video (both the estimation of the instant the roofline began to descend and the calculated velocity and acceleration of a point on the roofline) revealed three distinct stages characterizing the 5.4 seconds of collapse:
Stage 1 (0 to 1.75 seconds): acceleration less than that of gravity (i.e., slower than free fall).
Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)
Stage 3 (4.0 to 5.4 seconds): decreased acceleration, again less than that of gravity

This analysis showed that the 40 percent longer descent time—compared to the 3.9 second free fall time—was due primarily to Stage 1, which corresponded to the buckling of the exterior columns in the lower stories of the north face. During Stage 2, the north face descended essentially in free fall, indicating negligible support from the structure below. This is consistent with the structural analysis model which showed the exterior columns buckling and losing their capacity to support the loads from the structure above. In Stage 3, the acceleration decreased as the upper portion of the north face encountered increased resistance from the collapsed structure and the debris pile below.

https://www.nist.gov/pba/questions-and-answers-about-nist-wtc-7-investigation

Maybe we should both read more, I am always happy to find new information.

I am purposely staying away from the "conspiracy" side of this but notice the date on the article.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 09:21:28 PM by disputeone »
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Rayzor

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2017, 09:24:31 PM »
Quote
Taking your bowling ball analogy,  if the bowling ball is sitting on something that collapses underneath it,  what rate does the bowling ball fall at?

It depends on the structural integrity of the building, if the structural integrity is zero then it will fall at gravitational acceleration, any more strength than zero and the rate of the collapse will be proportionately slower.

Kudos for debating me on this, most people won't.

Ok,  now look at the top of the building,  how can that possibly fall?   It can only fall if the structure underneath it is collapsing,   the NIST report show that the collapse began on the 13th floor, after 7 hours of fire



The collapse then spread to all the central 23 columns, and external columns  so the top 24 or so floors had the structure collapse out from underneath,  to argue that there is a 1.5 second difference between the theoretical FEA model and dubious video evidence is flimsy evidence in the extreme to conclude that WTC7 was a demolition job.

But as I said earlier,  if you have fallen into the conspiracy mind trap,  it's going to be impossible for any evidence to convince you otherwise.  Truth is strange enough without inventing conspiracies.
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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2017, 09:28:27 PM »
Quote from: NIST
This is consistent with the structural analysis model which showed the exterior columns buckling and losing their capacity to support the loads from the structure above.

It's not actually consistent imo.





Tell me honestly you think the model reflects reality?

Edit, what do you think of the 2.25 seconds of free fall also?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 09:31:22 PM by disputeone »
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disputeone

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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2017, 09:38:03 PM »
If you are genuinely interested check out how far the building "falls" in the first 1.75 seconds. It's quite easy to do with an original video watching at 1 frame per 1/10 of a second or whatever you like.
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Re: Does Trump Know The True Shape Of The Earth
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2017, 09:42:51 PM »
I think the NIST report covers all the bases pretty well,  maybe they could release the FEA model,  but I suspect that would just lead to more opportunities for misinterpretation of the kind David Chandler does.   

Any structural model is going to be a simplification of the real world, and of necessity  full of assumptions about fuel loading,  structural integrity of the steel framework, etc, etc,  I don't regard the model of the collapse as being sufficiently wrong as to indicate a demolition.   The three stage collapse pretty much matches video observations. 

The "it must be demolition because of free-fall argument"  that Chandler is pushing is a deliberate misinterpretation of the reality of how the building collapsed.

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.