I need some explanation

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here4lolz

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I need some explanation
« on: February 03, 2017, 11:52:23 AM »
Can someone please answer these questions?

1. What makes you think the Earth is flat?

2. Why would NASA be lying to us?

3. Is the Earth riding on the backs of elephants who are riding on the back of a giant turtle travelling through the infinte space or is it an endless plain?

4. What makes thing fall down? If it isn't gravity, is it buoyancy, is the Earth constantly accelerating upwards at 9.81 m/s^2, or is it the "sky pushing power" someone mentioned in one of their posts whose name I don't remember?

5. What makes you think that Antarctica is an Ice Wall surrounding the Earth?

6. What causes lunar eclipses?

7. What makes you think that there is a dome above the Earth and what is it made of?

8. Why is every singe map of a flat Earth distorted?

9. What do the goverments get by convincing us that the Earth is round? Does it make us more susceptible to brain washing?

10. How deep do we need to go to reach the bottom?

11. Does your opinion have anything to do with your religious belief?
"The church says the Earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the Moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church."
-Ferdinand Magellan

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gg1gamer

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2017, 01:05:00 PM »
I'm a roundy but here are some answers:

1: i don't but i'm also a roundy so
2: the usual answers from FEers:  money and power
3: depends on which FEer you ask, although i haven't heard of anyone seriously considering something with an elephant or turtle.
4: again depends on which FEer you ask.  Everything from the earth is accelerating upwards to the air is pushing us down goes around here.
5: not every theory thinks that.  For the theories that do, i don't know, i'll have to refer to a FEer for that
6: i've been wondering the same.  Hell i'll settle for an explanation of lunar phases.
7: again depends on which FEer you ask.  From what i've understand asteroids are pieces of the dome coming down.  So whatever asteroids are made of, the dome must be made of.
8: Not a single round map accurately depicts the earth correctly.  It's rather hard to make a 100% correct map, no matter the theory
9:same as nasa, money and power
10: depends on ... ah f* it
11: mine? No.  Those of most FEers?  No

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Gumby

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2017, 01:55:41 PM »
Can someone please answer these questions?

1. What makes you think the Earth is flat?

2. Why would NASA be lying to us?

3. Is the Earth riding on the backs of elephants who are riding on the back of a giant turtle travelling through the infinte space or is it an endless plain?

4. What makes thing fall down? If it isn't gravity, is it buoyancy, is the Earth constantly accelerating upwards at 9.81 m/s^2, or is it the "sky pushing power" someone mentioned in one of their posts whose name I don't remember?

5. What makes you think that Antarctica is an Ice Wall surrounding the Earth?

6. What causes lunar eclipses?

7. What makes you think that there is a dome above the Earth and what is it made of?

8. Why is every singe map of a flat Earth distorted?

9. What do the goverments get by convincing us that the Earth is round? Does it make us more susceptible to brain washing?

10. How deep do we need to go to reach the bottom?

11. Does your opinion have anything to do with your religious belief?

It's
Fernão de Magalhães not Ferdinand Magellan...
And the church knew the earth was round...
How dumb can you be?
I think MH370 was hijacked and the persons who did the hijacking were indeed out to prove a flat earth.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2017, 01:58:28 PM »
1) it looks flat
2) sweet sweet space money
3) infinite plane (but sometimes I pretend it's a turtle on the back of dachshunds)
4) gravity, there is gravity on the infinite plane
5) "ice wall" is a figure of speech, it's more like a ring continent that borders the edge of the known world
6) moonshramp migration
7) I don't believe there is a dome
8) all maps are distorted
9) probably brainwashing, but maybe ALIENS
10) that is a very personal question, how dare you!
11) I'm not religious




I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2017, 03:53:31 PM »
1. When complete models are compared, the DE model of FET minimises unnecessary assumptions.
2. They want us to believe they went to space, initially for political benefit, but now for financial.
3. Neither. it is a two-sided disk.
4. Space itself flows downwards and carries all things that occupy space with it.
5. I don't think that. Many do not.
6. The angle at which the moon shines relative to the Sun.
7. There is no physical dome. There is a dome marking out a certain current of the movement of space, but this is logical: circles are preferred.
8. Trying to map it all to a single plane fails. However, globe maps are also distorted, you shouldn't just assume they are accurate by default.
9. They don't seek to. It's more than likely they just haven't questioned the world being round, and maintain the space travel conspiracy for the aforementioned reasons. If they've realized it's flat, it's of no importance to them.
10. Space itself is a variable, the question does not make sense.
11. No, I'm not religious.
http://fet.wikia.com
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On the sister site if you want to talk.

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PawnedScum

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2017, 06:03:23 PM »
I'm new here too, but I have been reading this Forum for some time before I became a member, and in the interest of full disclosure...I'm researching for a character in a novel I'm writing.  I believe that you have went straight for the enchilada and skipped the chips and salsa and your first Margarita, but since I have had limited success with the one question at a time approach, maybe you will do better.

1. Near as I can tell, there are numerous types of people on this post and almost as many beliefs.  Some think it's flat, some think it's something else and the vast majority seem to think that they can convince these people that what the believe is not based in scientific fact. I, for one,  think the world is a sphere but can fully understand the need to want to know more and a natural tendency to lean toward conspiracy theories.

2. NASA's budget this year is just north of 18.5 Billion dollars.  That's a shit pot full of money, but when you start thinking of how many people they would have to 'grease' to keep a conspiracy of this type secret, it doesn't appear to go far enough. Wouldn't Trump have tweeted out the secret as soon as he was briefed on taking office.

3.  I've seen no evidence that anyone really believes this other then sarcastic and joking posts.

4. Gravity is the only explanation that makes sense, but that doesn't preclude the flat earth from having gravity. It's just in a different format then what we mainstream think of it.

5. This seems the easiest theories to test but it's just difficult to pull it off.  Too expensive for anyone to disprove the theory by simply taking a ship or plane and seeing what is down there.  They wouldn't believe the evidence anyway based on the way some FE'ers think.

6. A rotating earth and a orbiting moon are the only logical explanation for the lunar eclipse. I'm still waiting for them to explain how sundials work so if you get an answer to how the moon phases and  eclipses work....let me know.

7. I think the dome they describe is a metaphysical thing and not a physical dome.  More like a point of no return such as the Van Allen belts or something we haven't discovered yet.  Some appear to think of it as the firmament which is talked about in the literal bible but that is just what I've gathered from reading all these posts.

8. Their maps are distorted for the same reason our own globe earth maps are distorted. It's hard to display a three dimensional item into a 2D representation.  This is a strong argument for the globe earth which is the only logical way to display it.  They don't believe in satellites  or the images that are produced from them, so they rationalize their flat earth into something that  explains why you can go east from South American and go straight to Africa. Everything is expanding circles which is how they explain it.

9. Governments probably keeps many things from us, but we also know that people can be incredibly lax in their duties.  A conspiracy of this size, in this age, is completely irrational to suppose that any government could pull it off. Having someone in my family who is hooked on every conspiracy theory, many of which contradict another conspiracy theory, suspecting the worst in people comes natural to them.  We want to find a bad guy to explain the things we simply don't understand.

10. They haven't worked out a model for the 'top' yet, how can they explain anything below the surface.

11. I am a member of the church of whatever it takes to get you by, no particular religious domination influence my opinions. 

Whatever reasons brought you here to this site, you will find a fascinating group of individuals who are passionate in their beliefs and with the exception of a few, very willing to debate and discuss with anyone about anything.  I for one have been entertained for weeks now.
The world is a sphere, but I don't hold that against it.

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JackBlack

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2017, 07:43:25 PM »
1. When complete models are compared, the DE model of FET minimises unnecessary assumptions.
2. They want us to believe they went to space, initially for political benefit, but now for financial.
3. Neither. it is a two-sided disk.
4. Space itself flows downwards and carries all things that occupy space with it.
5. I don't think that. Many do not.
6. The angle at which the moon shines relative to the Sun.
7. There is no physical dome. There is a dome marking out a certain current of the movement of space, but this is logical: circles are preferred.
8. Trying to map it all to a single plane fails. However, globe maps are also distorted, you shouldn't just assume they are accurate by default.
9. They don't seek to. It's more than likely they just haven't questioned the world being round, and maintain the space travel conspiracy for the aforementioned reasons. If they've realized it's flat, it's of no importance to them.
10. Space itself is a variable, the question does not make sense.
11. No, I'm not religious.
No.
1 - RET uses far fewer assumptions. DET makes self contradictory assumptions and no sense at all.
2 - What financial benefit is there with all the costs?
4 - Which would include Earth meaning we would all be falling together.
6 - Care to elaborate?
7 - In 2D yes. In 3D, spheres are. That is because they have the smallest surface are to volume ratio (or perimeter to area) and thus the smallest surface energy.
8 - While mapping it to 2 planes does result in less distortion, there is still a lot. Mapping it to a globe produces very little distortion, and produces maps that are accurate for pretty much all purposes due to other far more significant sources of error.

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Astronut33

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2017, 10:52:10 PM »
1) it looks flat
2) sweet sweet space money
3) infinite plane (but sometimes I pretend it's a turtle on the back of dachshunds)
4) gravity, there is gravity on the infinite plane
5) "ice wall" is a figure of speech, it's more like a ring continent that borders the edge of the known world
6) moonshramp migration
7) I don't believe there is a dome
8) all maps are distorted
9) probably brainwashing, but maybe ALIENS
10) that is a very personal question, how dare you!
11) I'm not religious

I hope you're joking, but I don't think you are considering how many comments you've made. All of your reasons are rather poor, so I ask you: do you really have reasons behind your ideology, or are you just in it for shits and giggles?
"By denying scientific principles, one may maintain any paradox" ~ Galileo Galilei

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2017, 10:21:43 AM »
1) it looks flat
2) sweet sweet space money
3) infinite plane (but sometimes I pretend it's a turtle on the back of dachshunds)
4) gravity, there is gravity on the infinite plane
5) "ice wall" is a figure of speech, it's more like a ring continent that borders the edge of the known world
6) moonshramp migration
7) I don't believe there is a dome
8) all maps are distorted
9) probably brainwashing, but maybe ALIENS
10) that is a very personal question, how dare you!
11) I'm not religious

I hope you're joking, but I don't think you are considering how many comments you've made. All of your reasons are rather poor, so I ask you: do you really have reasons behind your ideology, or are you just in it for shits and giggles?

All your questions have been asked and answered many times. Are you here to learn about FET or are you just in it for the shits and giggles?
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Username

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2017, 11:18:30 AM »
Can someone please answer these questions?

1. What makes you think the Earth is flat?
Logic, reason and just plane good sense.
Quote
2. Why would NASA be lying to us?
They have been caught lying time and time again to suit their own ends. A common motive is money and power. However, in the end, I find them far too incompetent time and time again to believe this. Surely they must just be fools.
Quote
3. Is the Earth riding on the backs of elephants who are riding on the back of a giant turtle travelling through the infinte space or is it an endless plain?
The earth is an endless plane.
Quote
4. What makes thing fall down? If it isn't gravity, is it buoyancy, is the Earth constantly accelerating upwards at 9.81 m/s^2, or is it the "sky pushing power" someone mentioned in one of their posts whose name I don't remember?
Gravity. You can see some of the math here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/infinite-flat-earth-mathematics
Quote
5. What makes you think that Antarctica is an Ice Wall surrounding the Earth?
I'm not sure I would agree with that; however, for many the biggest evidence lies in the treaties involved to limit travel there.
Quote
6. What causes lunar eclipses?
There are various explanations here. A good place to start looking into them all is in our library.
Quote
7. What makes you think that there is a dome above the Earth and what is it made of?
If such a thing could be called a dome, I would say it would be made of aether.
Quote
8. Why is every singe map of a flat Earth distorted?
This either has to do with the difficulties of examining non-euclidean spaces on euclidean scale surfaces, or instead in actuality it is the globe that is distorted.
Quote
9. What do the goverments get by convincing us that the Earth is round? Does it make us more susceptible to brain washing?
Yes, but that is not even a tertiary concern to them. The wide majority of the government is ignorant to the whole ordeal. If there is a consipiracy, it is run by a few elite for reasons relating to power. There are other points of view ranging from to hide us from God, all the way to slavery.
Quote
10. How deep do we need to go to reach the bottom?
4195.43 kilometers deep
Quote
11. Does your opinion have anything to do with your religious belief?
No.
If you can't argue both ssides, you understand neit,her

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JackBlack

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2017, 12:18:20 PM »
Can someone please answer these questions?

1. What makes you think the Earth is flat?
Logic, reason and just plane good sense.
Quote
2. Why would NASA be lying to us?
They have been caught lying time and time again to suit their own ends. A common motive is money and power. However, in the end, I find them far too incompetent time and time again to believe this. Surely they must just be fools.
Quote
5. What makes you think that Antarctica is an Ice Wall surrounding the Earth?
I'm not sure I would agree with that; however, for many the biggest evidence lies in the treaties involved to limit travel there.
Quote
6. What causes lunar eclipses?
There are various explanations here. A good place to start looking into them all is in our library.
Quote
8. Why is every singe map of a flat Earth distorted?
This either has to do with the difficulties of examining non-euclidean spaces on euclidean scale surfaces, or instead in actuality it is the globe that is distorted.
1 - No. It is the complete absence of logic and reason which leads people to believe Earth is flat.

2 - What have they been caught lying about?
What power do they get?

5 - Do you mean the treaties preventing military purposes and opening it up for civilian/research use, to ensure free (i.e. no restrictions, not no money involved) travel to Antarctica unopposed by military operations? If so, that is exactly the opposite of what you claim.
If not, what treaty are you talking about?

6 - Your library?
And what would that be? Do you mean the wiki? If so, that has some serious accessibility issues.
And it is also a collection of nonsense.
You can't use the sun to explain the phases of the moon in FET.
A full moon occurs when the sun and moon are opposite one another, but as you claim it is spherical (needed for the phases), then it would need to be so far above to be fully illuminated it isn't funny. This would result in massive size differences of the phases, instead of all the phases showing up at the various sizes (even when directly overhead).

So as that explanation doesn't work for why the moon is illuminated and shows phases, you can't use blocking the light from the sun to produce an eclipse.

8 - If the globe is distorted why does it show all the distances and directions so accurately?

Also, an infinite flat plane doesn't produce the same results as the required non-Euclidean space.

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Copper Knickers

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2017, 02:13:42 PM »
2. Why would NASA be lying to us?
They have been caught lying time and time again to suit their own ends. A common motive is money and power.

I've yet to come across a substantiated lie by NASA. I even created a thread on these boards to solicit examples of NASA 'lies'. The most that was offered was a suspicious timestamp on a set of photos from the New Horizons mission.

However, in the end, I find them far too incompetent time and time again to believe this. Surely they must just be fools.

NASA have launched and operated hundreds of satellites. They've sent probes and landers to the major planets and their moons. They operated their own space station and have subsequently been a major contributor to the ISS. In likelihood, their efforts have enhanced man's understanding of the earth, solar system and universe more than any other organisation. In addition, twelve of their astronauts have walked on the moon.

Imagine how much they could have achieved had they been competent.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 02:52:25 PM by Copper Knickers »

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rabinoz

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2017, 02:46:57 PM »
Also, an infinite flat plane doesn't produce the same results as the required non-Euclidean space.
:P You have it all wrong  :P!
John Davis has this drawer full of flat earth models so that he can drag out the appropriate one to answer any and every problem.
Our trouble is that we are shackled by the restraints of reality.

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JackBlack

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2017, 12:06:46 AM »
Also, an infinite flat plane doesn't produce the same results as the required non-Euclidean space.
:P You have it all wrong  :P!
John Davis has this drawer full of flat earth models so that he can drag out the appropriate one to answer any and every problem.
Our trouble is that we are shackled by the restraints of reality.

Forget the restraints of reality. Even just the restraints of a model.

I see this popping up quite a bit. They have one answer for something, which then completely destroys everything else.

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wise

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2017, 12:44:25 AM »
Can someone please answer these questions?



1. What makes you think the Earth is flat? : Diffusion phenomenon is the most reason. Everything moves towards the void, and the attraction of the void is greater than all other known forces. If the world was a ball spinning, there would be no atmosphere.

2. Why would NASA be lying to us? This business is earning big money. In fact, it's a different way of stealing the money of american taxpayers, without being noticed.

3. Is the Earth riding on the backs of elephants who are riding on the back of a giant turtle travelling through the infinte space or is it an endless plain? We do not have enough data to answer this question. All we know is that this world is not a fucking round.

4. What makes thing fall down? If it isn't gravity, is it buoyancy, is the Earth constantly accelerating upwards at 9.81 m/s^2, or is it the "sky pushing power" someone mentioned in one of their posts whose name I don't remember? There is something pushing everything to down with an accelerating with 9.81 m/s^2. We have some theories like "sky pushing power" but we don't sure which one is true. All we know that it is not gravity because in nature world, nothing is pulling each other by themselves with no reason.

5. What makes you think that Antarctica is an Ice Wall surrounding the Earth? The most logical thing depends on datas in our hand.

6. What causes lunar eclipses? We call the object closes the moon as shadow object.

7. What makes you think that there is a dome above the Earth and what is it made of? There is not something that prevents I from thinking about it. If you look at the question asked in the first article, the answer is understood there. The atmosphere has to be surrounded by something that protects it, as it does not break out.

8. Why is every singe map of a flat Earth distorted? They all are amateur studies not supported by a scientific institution. We need institutional support for better.

9. What do the goverments get by convincing us that the Earth is round? Does it make us more susceptible to brain washing? It helps keep people in the borders. If people think that the world is going beyond antarctica, there will be irregularity and chaos, and governments lose their power.

10. How deep do we need to go to reach the bottom? I measured it as about 200 kms by using compass, here.

11. Does your opinion have anything to do with your religious belief? Generally it doesn't. There are people of all faiths and faithless who believe in this view. Basically this is just science.

I hope you have found the answers you are looking for. If somebody appeals to this response   ignore them. This answer is only for you and your questions. Good luck.
He (somebody) is a troll homo playing role of girl.

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JackBlack

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2017, 01:10:19 AM »
Can someone please answer these questions?



1. What makes you think the Earth is flat? : Diffusion phenomenon is the most reason. Everything moves towards the void, and the attraction of the void is greater than all other known forces. If the world was a ball spinning, there would be no atmosphere.

2. Why would NASA be lying to us? This business is earning big money. In fact, it's a different way of stealing the money of american taxpayers, without being noticed.

3. Is the Earth riding on the backs of elephants who are riding on the back of a giant turtle travelling through the infinte space or is it an endless plain? We do not have enough data to answer this question. All we know is that this world is not a fucking round.

4. What makes thing fall down? If it isn't gravity, is it buoyancy, is the Earth constantly accelerating upwards at 9.81 m/s^2, or is it the "sky pushing power" someone mentioned in one of their posts whose name I don't remember? There is something pushing everything to down with an accelerating with 9.81 m/s^2. We have some theories like "sky pushing power" but we don't sure which one is true. All we know that it is not gravity because in nature world, nothing is pulling each other by themselves with no reason.

5. What makes you think that Antarctica is an Ice Wall surrounding the Earth? The most logical thing depends on datas in our hand.

6. What causes lunar eclipses? We call the object closes the moon as shadow object.

7. What makes you think that there is a dome above the Earth and what is it made of? There is not something that prevents I from thinking about it. If you look at the question asked in the first article, the answer is understood there. The atmosphere has to be surrounded by something that protects it, as it does not break out.

8. Why is every singe map of a flat Earth distorted? They all are amateur studies not supported by a scientific institution. We need institutional support for better.

9. What do the goverments get by convincing us that the Earth is round? Does it make us more susceptible to brain washing? It helps keep people in the borders. If people think that the world is going beyond antarctica, there will be irregularity and chaos, and governments lose their power.

10. How deep do we need to go to reach the bottom? I measured it as about 200 kms by using compass, here.

11. Does your opinion have anything to do with your religious belief? Generally it doesn't. There are people of all faiths and faithless who believe in this view. Basically this is just science.

I hope you have found the answers you are looking for. If somebody appeals to this response   ignore them. This answer is only for you and your questions. Good luck.
1 - No. The void has no attraction. It is other things pushing things into the void, (like air pressure). It is quite large here, but definitely not the greatest force.
This also has no bearing on the shape of Earth or if it is spinning.
2 - No. It would make them almost nothing. Not with how much money they spend on various things and all the people they would have to pay to keep silent.
3 - No. We know that Earth is round.
4 - No. You don't have theories. You have pure bullshit guesswork which is easily shown to be wrong. We know that it is gravity.
5 - Except you have no data to indicate Antarctica is an ice wall.
6 - And why doesn't it cast anything else into shadow?
7 - Nope. The atmosphere is held down by gravity. There is no need for a dome.
If there way, and the garbage you say is true, then the pressure under the dome would be constant, rather than decrease as you gain altitute.
8 - Yes, they are just amateur crap. All the science indicates Earth is round. But you don't even need to be a scientist to piece together an accurate map. You just need accurate maps of areas and try to piece them together without distortion, but it is impossible to make it flat as Earth isn't flat.
If Earth was flat you would easily be able to piece it together without distortion.
9 - Most people wouldn't care.
10 - How did you measure it? Why link to the thread where you admitted it doesn't work?
Quote
I cancelled the measurement because the angle of the compass needle changing time to time. It is going up and going down after a time passed. It is interesting.either i'm doing a mistake when measuring, or the center of the magnetic pole is changing to up and down time by time.
11 - If that really was the case you wouldn't be continually posting crap about the Quran saying it is flat or other religious crap.

People are free to respond to your nonsense and point out why it is wrong.

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disputeone

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2017, 02:47:15 AM »
Can someone please answer these questions?

1. What makes you think the Earth is flat?

One question at a time son.

Look up, now look down, look left, now look right, well?
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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JackBlack

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2017, 12:23:36 PM »
Can someone please answer these questions?

1. What makes you think the Earth is flat?

One question at a time son.

Look up, now look down, look left, now look right, well?
1 - I can only see a limited range. Even next to the ocean, and this has nothing to do with limits of vision nor the limits of Earth as I can see much further from mountains, even where the air is a bit hazier, and there is the issue of the horizon being below eye level.

This indicates Earth can't be a flat plane, and instead must be curving away so you can only see a small section, where that section grows larger the higher you are.

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2017, 11:21:01 AM »
Quote
No.
1 - RET uses far fewer assumptions. DET makes self contradictory assumptions and no sense at all.
2 - What financial benefit is there with all the costs?
4 - Which would include Earth meaning we would all be falling together.
6 - Care to elaborate?
7 - In 2D yes. In 3D, spheres are. That is because they have the smallest surface are to volume ratio (or perimeter to area) and thus the smallest surface energy.
8 - While mapping it to 2 planes does result in less distortion, there is still a lot. Mapping it to a globe produces very little distortion, and produces maps that are accurate for pretty much all purposes due to other far more significant sources of error.
1. A false statement, which you evidently no because you provide no evidence, while I link to my model in every post I make so I allow people to make up their own minds.
2. It costs less than they say because what they create is not genuinely spaceworthy.
4. No. The Earth is a two-sided disk, each side is pushed down with respect to it and so hitting the other, balancing one another out. Objects on the surface of either disk however are pushed only against the Earth.
6. You would have to understand the model to fully understand. Moonlight passes through substantially more air, turning red in much the same way as a sunset.
7. We are not talking about RET.
8. You cannot simply assume that the RE map is accurate.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

*

JackBlack

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2017, 12:47:41 PM »
Quote
No.
1 - RET uses far fewer assumptions. DET makes self contradictory assumptions and no sense at all.
2 - What financial benefit is there with all the costs?
4 - Which would include Earth meaning we would all be falling together.
6 - Care to elaborate?
7 - In 2D yes. In 3D, spheres are. That is because they have the smallest surface are to volume ratio (or perimeter to area) and thus the smallest surface energy.
8 - While mapping it to 2 planes does result in less distortion, there is still a lot. Mapping it to a globe produces very little distortion, and produces maps that are accurate for pretty much all purposes due to other far more significant sources of error.
1. A false statement, which you evidently no because you provide no evidence, while I link to my model in every post I make so I allow people to make up their own minds.
2. It costs less than they say because what they create is not genuinely spaceworthy.
4. No. The Earth is a two-sided disk, each side is pushed down with respect to it and so hitting the other, balancing one another out. Objects on the surface of either disk however are pushed only against the Earth.
6. You would have to understand the model to fully understand. Moonlight passes through substantially more air, turning red in much the same way as a sunset.
7. We are not talking about RET.
8. You cannot simply assume that the RE map is accurate.
1 - No. A true statement.
If you would like to have a discussion on it, feel free to start a post and I will start pointing out those contradictions.
Considering you aren't putting in any effort to provide evidence for your claims, I see no reason to provide any here to reject your claim or provide a counterclaim. RET has no assumptions specifically for it. The only assumptions made are the same made by the rest of science.
2 - But that then blows the costs out because they would need to pay everyone building them to keep quiet. It is also quite problematic with using external agencies like spaceX.
4 - But your model doesn't have them hitting each other. Instead you have a gap in the middle. You also seem to be ignoring that in your model it is space itself that is moving. That would mean that as it loops back around, it would take Earth and us with it.
6 - Good thing I understand it quite well, well enough to realise it contradicts itself. If that is the case, why is it so sudden, almost like the light has to pass from the sun through the atmosphere of Earth to hit the moon and bounce back? It is also fairly different to a sunset as the moon can be quite high in the sky during an eclipse, while a sunset only occurs when the sun is low, and with a sunset, the sky around the sun is red, while for a lunar eclipse, it is only the moon which is red.
7 - That's right. We are talking about what shapes are "preferred".
Circles are preferred in 2D. Thin discs are not preferred in 3D. In 3D, spheres are preferred.
8 - And I'm not. Instead I am going based upon the evidence, the same evidence which shows Earth is round. You don't need to measure the entire circumference or the entirety of a ring at a particular latitude centred on the pole. Instead you can measure the distance of a small (relatively speaking) arc, and calculate how much that is based upon the "constant" motion of the sun of 15 degrees an hour, and combine that with measurements of how far away things are from the poles or how far away arcs are from each other in a north south direction.
The only surface I know of that these distances match is a sphere, not 2 flat discs stuck together and not a single massive flat disc.

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2017, 01:27:39 PM »
Quote
1 - No. A true statement.
If you would like to have a discussion on it, feel free to start a post and I will start pointing out those contradictions.
Considering you aren't putting in any effort to provide evidence for your claims, I see no reason to provide any here to reject your claim or provide a counterclaim. RET has no assumptions specifically for it. The only assumptions made are the same made by the rest of science.
2 - But that then blows the costs out because they would need to pay everyone building them to keep quiet. It is also quite problematic with using external agencies like spaceX.
4 - But your model doesn't have them hitting each other. Instead you have a gap in the middle. You also seem to be ignoring that in your model it is space itself that is moving. That would mean that as it loops back around, it would take Earth and us with it.
6 - Good thing I understand it quite well, well enough to realise it contradicts itself. If that is the case, why is it so sudden, almost like the light has to pass from the sun through the atmosphere of Earth to hit the moon and bounce back? It is also fairly different to a sunset as the moon can be quite high in the sky during an eclipse, while a sunset only occurs when the sun is low, and with a sunset, the sky around the sun is red, while for a lunar eclipse, it is only the moon which is red.
7 - That's right. We are talking about what shapes are "preferred".
Circles are preferred in 2D. Thin discs are not preferred in 3D. In 3D, spheres are preferred.
8 - And I'm not. Instead I am going based upon the evidence, the same evidence which shows Earth is round. You don't need to measure the entire circumference or the entirety of a ring at a particular latitude centred on the pole. Instead you can measure the distance of a small (relatively speaking) arc, and calculate how much that is based upon the "constant" motion of the sun of 15 degrees an hour, and combine that with measurements of how far away things are from the poles or how far away arcs are from each other in a north south direction.
The only surface I know of that these distances match is a sphere, not 2 flat discs stuck together and not a single massive flat disc.
1. I have an entire section devoted to the evidence for the model, and I have a thread devoted to inviting queries about DET on multiple sites (on this site, certain rules hold to make it a logical discussion, read the OP), and you are perfectly capable of making one of your own if you have a genuine flaw.
2. Not really, the number of people who'd actually oversee questionable aspects is minimal. The people handing off raw materials have no idea what it's used for, and you don't get people taking the whole thing apart to look through it just before take-off. As far as external companies go, it's self-sustaining. No one wants to admit that they've failed to reach space, when everyone believes it to be possible. Those that do go forgotten, those that lie, especially in companies dedicated solely to space travel, don't go bankrupt.
4. It's approximately eye-shaped, they meet at the edge, but in a way that cannot reasonably be drawn on a diagram because space is a variable. It could be drawn on elastic, not on a piece of paper. Space moves outwards at specific points, not straight up the way it came; that doesn't make sense. It can't be coming and going simultaneously. There are points it's always coming down, and points it's always going out, but the points it's going out we don't cross in the right direction to notice.
6. Don't claim you understand the model when you do not, as you've made clear with your objections. I said it was a similar principle to sunset, not that it literally was a sunset, all that means is that light passes through more air. Sunsets are just another example of this happening. The reason the sky around the moon does not appear red is just because the moon's light is substantially dimmer than the Sun. It doesn't happen instantly, it's a process, same as ever.
7. Oversimplification. Round shapes, in any dimension, are preferred. As for which one is formed, that comes down to the forces at play. If you throw an object in a pond, the ripples that come out are always circular, even though every pond exists in three dimensions, and there is some movement in the third direction, you still just get circles rather than spheres. The Earth will have a round shape, statistically, but whether it is a disk or ball depends on what forces act on it.
8. Assuming that the Sun behaves the way you claim it does is circular. You cannot justify RET by assuming tenets of RET.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

*

JackBlack

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2017, 03:05:45 PM »
1. I have an entire section devoted to the evidence for the model, and I have a thread devoted to inviting queries about DET on multiple sites (on this site, certain rules hold to make it a logical discussion, read the OP), and you are perfectly capable of making one of your own if you have a genuine flaw.
2. Not really, the number of people who'd actually oversee questionable aspects is minimal. The people handing off raw materials have no idea what it's used for, and you don't get people taking the whole thing apart to look through it just before take-off. As far as external companies go, it's self-sustaining. No one wants to admit that they've failed to reach space, when everyone believes it to be possible. Those that do go forgotten, those that lie, especially in companies dedicated solely to space travel, don't go bankrupt.
4. It's approximately eye-shaped, they meet at the edge, but in a way that cannot reasonably be drawn on a diagram because space is a variable. It could be drawn on elastic, not on a piece of paper. Space moves outwards at specific points, not straight up the way it came; that doesn't make sense. It can't be coming and going simultaneously. There are points it's always coming down, and points it's always going out, but the points it's going out we don't cross in the right direction to notice.
6. Don't claim you understand the model when you do not, as you've made clear with your objections. I said it was a similar principle to sunset, not that it literally was a sunset, all that means is that light passes through more air. Sunsets are just another example of this happening. The reason the sky around the moon does not appear red is just because the moon's light is substantially dimmer than the Sun. It doesn't happen instantly, it's a process, same as ever.
7. Oversimplification. Round shapes, in any dimension, are preferred. As for which one is formed, that comes down to the forces at play. If you throw an object in a pond, the ripples that come out are always circular, even though every pond exists in three dimensions, and there is some movement in the third direction, you still just get circles rather than spheres. The Earth will have a round shape, statistically, but whether it is a disk or ball depends on what forces act on it.
8. Assuming that the Sun behaves the way you claim it does is circular. You cannot justify RET by assuming tenets of RET.
1 - You have a single post, the vast majority of which contains nothing even remotely resembling evidence, and one filled with lies or inaccuracies.
Here is the totality of your "evidence" from that section:
Quote
Occam's Razor relates to the number of assumptions made. DET relies on aether, and nothing else; everything follows from this definition, and so cannot be counted as a separate assumption. Does this mean DET contains one assumption, aether? No: because aether itself is defined as more than one entity.
Aether is defined as the fabric of space formed of concentrations (1) with a property appended (2). This is two assumptions: space being able to form concentrations, and space possessing this one property. All else about it is proven, either by Relativity or by definition.
Note, however, that the second assumption is acceptable by scientific standards. While we may not directly have observed the universal law in question be applied to space, this typically doesn't matter when it comes to laws. There are all manner of laws which have not and cannot be tested for all possible entities they apply to: if there is a logical basis however, and they appear consistent, we simply say the law is universally applicable. There is no law that has been confirmed for everything, but no one will call you a bad scientist for assuming, say, the laws of thermodynamics will hold for a new experiment.
What does all this leave us with?
DET is based upon one assumption, and one assumption alone: the idea of space being able to form concentrations.
Of course, that is a blatant lie, as it is based upon several assumptions, that space is able to form concentrations, that it will start to flow to even out these concentration, and that rather than stop, it will keep moving to even it out. It then has more regarding interactions with matter, and that space somehow forms whirlpools.

So no, you have no evidence. You just have several assumptions.
You also claim it is falsifiable, but the first example you give you note that any observation would be consistent due to how small the effect would be.
Something similar would likely apply for the second, where you could just claim the discontinuities are really close together so we still see steps, just really small ones.

2 - No. The number of people working on it making the various expensive components is quite large, components which just go to waste. And I was talking about the external contractors being paid by NASA taking loads of NASA's money further cutting down on the money to line their pockets.

4 - So is it flat, or is it round? You can't have both.

I never said it would go up right where it came down. How come we don't cross it in the right way where it goes out? How would you cross it in the wrong way? How come it doesn't pull Earth out as it moves away?

6 - Don't claim I don't understand when I have made it clear that I do. You have not shown that I don't, you have just spouted more nonsense and avoided questions asked.
Do you notice how you don't actually address any of the objections here? Instead you just dismiss it as me not understanding. Further mocking and ridicule.
How about you actually address the issues raised?

7 - Not oversimplification, just stating facts. In your model there isn't simply a force acting down like there is on a lake. It is also a completely different mechanism. If you throw a round object in a pond the ripples are circular. If you throw a different shape object, then the ripples are based upon that shape.

8 - Once again you confuse assumption with observation. It is observed that regardless of longitude, the sun appears to move at the same speed, it never appears to speed up or slow down.
It is also observed that it takes 24 hours to complete a cycle. So it is moving at a rate of 15 degrees an hour.

There is nothing circular about that (reasoning).
I am not assuming any tenant of RET to try and prove it. I am simply going based upon observations of reality.

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Username

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2017, 06:44:52 AM »
Can someone please answer these questions?

1. What makes you think the Earth is flat?
Logic, reason and just plane good sense.
Quote
2. Why would NASA be lying to us?
They have been caught lying time and time again to suit their own ends. A common motive is money and power. However, in the end, I find them far too incompetent time and time again to believe this. Surely they must just be fools.
Quote
5. What makes you think that Antarctica is an Ice Wall surrounding the Earth?
I'm not sure I would agree with that; however, for many the biggest evidence lies in the treaties involved to limit travel there.
Quote
6. What causes lunar eclipses?
There are various explanations here. A good place to start looking into them all is in our library.
Quote
8. Why is every singe map of a flat Earth distorted?
This either has to do with the difficulties of examining non-euclidean spaces on euclidean scale surfaces, or instead in actuality it is the globe that is distorted.
1 - No. It is the complete absence of logic and reason which leads people to believe Earth is flat.

2 - What have they been caught lying about?
What power do they get?

5 - Do you mean the treaties preventing military purposes and opening it up for civilian/research use, to ensure free (i.e. no restrictions, not no money involved) travel to Antarctica unopposed by military operations? If so, that is exactly the opposite of what you claim.
If not, what treaty are you talking about?

6 - Your library?
And what would that be? Do you mean the wiki? If so, that has some serious accessibility issues.
And it is also a collection of nonsense.
You can't use the sun to explain the phases of the moon in FET.
A full moon occurs when the sun and moon are opposite one another, but as you claim it is spherical (needed for the phases), then it would need to be so far above to be fully illuminated it isn't funny. This would result in massive size differences of the phases, instead of all the phases showing up at the various sizes (even when directly overhead).

So as that explanation doesn't work for why the moon is illuminated and shows phases, you can't use blocking the light from the sun to produce an eclipse.

8 - If the globe is distorted why does it show all the distances and directions so accurately?

Also, an infinite flat plane doesn't produce the same results as the required non-Euclidean space.
1. This is not the case. I'm sure you would know better though than someone who is a flat earth believer.
2. They've been caught lying about all sorts of things - the origin of ambassador gifts, the results of their studies, whether their results are consistent with MODN, and so on. Controlling knowledge is its own power, and even today scientists are creeping their way into controlling politics. Not only this, but they actively steal from the public by developing technology using tax payer money and then reselling it to the private sector. If I wish to use technology funded by my tax dollars, I now have to pay twice the development costs and R&D costs - once to temperpedic and once in taxes to NASA.
5. That treaty might claim to ensure free travel to Antarctica, but it does the opposite for a few reasons. The most obvious is that they control the means to travel there.
6. Yes, the library on our homepage. http://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/library
8. This is a logical non-sequitor that is based on the assumption that only one model can show the distances and directions accurately. You have no shown this to be the case, and so your question makes little sense.

I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to concerning the infinite flat plane vs the non-euclidean flat plane.
If you can't argue both ssides, you understand neit,her

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Username

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2017, 06:49:37 AM »
1 - I can only see a limited range.
Finally, a globularist who admits this basic fact. On the other hand, our scientists are busy seeing back to creation of time itself in their big bang - all off a bit of radio noise in our particular region -  or to the entire universe in their silly cosmologies! Far worse than a doctor who has only worked on cadavers, the mortician doctor at least has some idea of what he's getting into. The global cosmologist, on the other hand, is much like the doctor who has never seen a living man. Tell me, ballers: would you attend a doctor who had never seen a patient? No, I wouldn't either.

Perhaps that's one reason why, to me, the Earth Is Not A Globe.
If you can't argue both ssides, you understand neit,her

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Arealhumanbeing

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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2017, 08:10:03 AM »
2. NASA's budget this year is just north of 18.5 Billion dollars.  That's a shit pot full of money, but when you start thinking of how many people they would have to 'grease' to keep a conspiracy of this type secret, it doesn't appear to go far enough. Wouldn't Trump have tweeted out the secret as soon as he was briefed on taking office.

Wow.

1962: JFK says were going to the moon.

2017: Donald Trump communicates to the public through twitter...

Youre fired.

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JackBlack

  • 26157
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Re: I need some explanation
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2017, 01:10:12 PM »
1. This is not the case. I'm sure you would know better though than someone who is a flat earth believer.
2. They've been caught lying about all sorts of things - the origin of ambassador gifts, the results of their studies, whether their results are consistent with MODN, and so on. Controlling knowledge is its own power, and even today scientists are creeping their way into controlling politics. Not only this, but they actively steal from the public by developing technology using tax payer money and then reselling it to the private sector. If I wish to use technology funded by my tax dollars, I now have to pay twice the development costs and R&D costs - once to temperpedic and once in taxes to NASA.
5. That treaty might claim to ensure free travel to Antarctica, but it does the opposite for a few reasons. The most obvious is that they control the means to travel there.
6. Yes, the library on our homepage. http://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/library
8. This is a logical non-sequitor that is based on the assumption that only one model can show the distances and directions accurately. You have no shown this to be the case, and so your question makes little sense.

I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to concerning the infinite flat plane vs the non-euclidean flat plane.
1 - No, it is the case. That is why humanity realised Earth was round.
2 - Can you provide a specific example?
However I do agree with one thing, if an entity is using public funds to develop something, that technology should be released to the public for just the cost of production.
5 - No. They don't control the means to travel there.
You are free to use whatever technology you want to travel there. You are free to hire a boat and go there.
If you wish for me to take your claim seriously you will need to provide something more substantial than that.
6 - My bad, missed that. Is there an easy way to search it?
8 - Not really. It was an objection to your idea that the globe is distorted.
It isn't necessarily only one model that is capable of showing distances accurately, it is just that completely different models can show them significantly differently so out of those only 1 can be accurate.

As for my comment, you claimed Earth is an endless plane, i.e. an infinite plane.
But the required non-flat flat plane requires the plane to shrink as you go south beyond the equator eventually reaching a point. That means it cannot be infinite as you will eventually reach that point. Going beyond that point just puts you to an already established part of the "plane".
It is impossible to go further than that point as it would just loop back around.


1 - I can only see a limited range.
Finally, a globularist who admits this basic fact. On the other hand, our scientists are busy seeing back to creation of time itself in their big bang - all off a bit of radio noise in our particular region -  or to the entire universe in their silly cosmologies! Far worse than a doctor who has only worked on cadavers, the mortician doctor at least has some idea of what he's getting into. The global cosmologist, on the other hand, is much like the doctor who has never seen a living man. Tell me, ballers: would you attend a doctor who had never seen a patient? No, I wouldn't either.

Perhaps that's one reason why, to me, the Earth Is Not A Globe.
And that is talking about a completely different thing.

I can only see a limited range on Earth. As I go higher, I can see more. Even when out at sea, well above the waves, and the horizon is below eye-level at all times.
This indicates that Earth is round, as going up higher allows you to see more of it, just like what would happen if you go higher above a ball.