Air Pressure vs Gravity

You don't like the word "pull".  In this case, pushing down and pulling towards the center of the earth are pretty much the same thing.

It doesn't matter what I don't like. I'm asking you to show me how you know gravity is real.
You say pull and push are the same yet that implies that your moon is pushing gravity to your Earth or your Earth is pushing gravity towards the moon.
Does this appear correct to how you accept it and if so can you explain it.

It's just that I tend to hear the words "gravitational pull."

Whether or not gravity is a force depends on who you ask.  If you ask Newton, then gravity is the force that attracts objects with mass towards each other.  If you ask Einstein, then gravity isn't really a force, but a curvature in space-time caused by an object's mass.

Any chance you can tell me what's happening with this and why there's contradictions?

Objects in free fall to fall at an increasingly fast rate.  The rate that the speed increases (changes) is called acceleration.  That acceleration can be measured.  In fact, measuring that acceleration was pretty much the first lab experiment in my college physics course.  Maybe you should consider taking a physics course so that you can perform some of these experiments yourself.

What did you use and how did you accurately measure it all to come to a conclusion that you were dealing with gravity for certain?

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 09:05:10 AM

You don't like the word "pull".  In this case, pushing down and pulling towards the center of the earth are pretty much the same thing.

It doesn't matter what I don't like. I'm asking you to show me how you know gravity is real.
You say pull and push are the same yet that implies that your moon is pushing gravity to your Earth or your Earth is pushing gravity towards the moon.
Does this appear correct to how you accept it and if so can you explain it.

It's just that I tend to hear the words "gravitational pull."

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 09:05:10 AM

Whether or not gravity is a force depends on who you ask.  If you ask Newton, then gravity is the force that attracts objects with mass towards each other.  If you ask Einstein, then gravity isn't really a force, but a curvature in space-time caused by an object's mass.

Any chance you can tell me what's happening with this and why there's contradictions?

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 09:05:10 AM

Objects in free fall to fall at an increasingly fast rate.  The rate that the speed increases (changes) is called acceleration.  That acceleration can be measured.  In fact, measuring that acceleration was pretty much the first lab experiment in my college physics course.  Maybe you should consider taking a physics course so that you can perform some of these experiments yourself.

What did you use and how did you accurately measure it all to come to a conclusion that you were dealing with gravity for certain?

why is gravity real?:
-Cavendish Experiment
-Planet movements around the sun.

now you show us how you know denpressure is real.

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 09:05:10 AM

You don't like the word "pull".  In this case, pushing down and pulling towards the center of the earth are pretty much the same thing.

It doesn't matter what I don't like. I'm asking you to show me how you know gravity is real.
You say pull and push are the same yet that implies that your moon is pushing gravity to your Earth or your Earth is pushing gravity towards the moon.
Does this appear correct to how you accept it and if so can you explain it.

I said "in this case" which was specifically referring to the boat example.

It's just that I tend to hear the words "gravitational pull."

Yes, gravitation influences are generally referred to as a pull.

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 09:05:10 AM

Whether or not gravity is a force depends on who you ask.  If you ask Newton, then gravity is the force that attracts objects with mass towards each other.  If you ask Einstein, then gravity isn't really a force, but a curvature in space-time caused by an object's mass.

Any chance you can tell me what's happening with this and why there's contradictions?

The contradiction comes from the fact that Newton's understanding of gravity was incomplete.  It was no secret that for all the success of Newton's gravity, there were still some things that it couldn't explain (such as the precession of Mercury's orbit). 

Einstein had the about 200 years or so of progress in physics research available since Newton published his work, so it shouldn't be any surprise that he was able to figure out some of the things that Newton couldn't. 

It took him a while, but Einstein was able to think far enough outside of the Newtonian box that he was able to figure out a mathematical model that could explain things that Newton's model couldn't.  There have been countless experimental tests of Einstein's model over the past 100 years or so and GR has passed all of them.

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 09:05:10 AM

Objects in free fall to fall at an increasingly fast rate.  The rate that the speed increases (changes) is called acceleration.  That acceleration can be measured.  In fact, measuring that acceleration was pretty much the first lab experiment in my college physics course.  Maybe you should consider taking a physics course so that you can perform some of these experiments yourself.

What did you use and how did you accurately measure it all to come to a conclusion that you were dealing with gravity for certain?

It was a fairly simple setup.  Basically, you take a paper strip attached to a weight and drop it trough a buzzer type device that makes a mark on the tape every 1/10 of a second.  Measure the distance between the marks to determine how fast the tape was moving.  Do that several times so that you can calculate the difference in speed between the marks and you have your acceleration.  It was a fairly crude setup and there were several potential sources of error that we identified (things like friction of the tape running through the buzzer), but we came up with a value that was in the general neighborhood of the accepted value of gravity.

It was a fairly simple setup.  Basically, you take a paper strip attached to a weight and drop it trough a buzzer type device that makes a mark on the tape every 1/10 of a second.  Measure the distance between the marks to determine how fast the tape was moving.  Do that several times so that you can calculate the difference in speed between the marks and you have your acceleration.  It was a fairly crude setup and there were several potential sources of error that we identified (things like friction of the tape running through the buzzer), but we came up with a value that was in the general neighborhood of the accepted value of gravity.

Yeah we did this in school. Our experimental set up allowed us mere schoolchildren to confirm that the acceleration due to gravity was the same as everyone else said it was.

To be fair to sceptimatic those experiments don't actually prove gravity. They prove that objects accelerate downwards but not its cause. The Cavendish experiment however does prove gravity.

Gravitational lensing is also evidence for gravity.

Gravitational lensing is also evidence for gravity.

Not when the entire universe is a reflection off the dome

Quote from: sokarul on February 23, 2017, 11:06:48 AM

Gravitational lensing is also evidence for gravity.

Not when the entire universe is a reflection off the dome

than we need a prove of the dome.

why is gravity real?:
-Cavendish Experiment
-Planet movements around the sun.

now you show us how you know denpressure is real.

Can you explain exactly what is happening with the Cavendish experiment that proves gravity?

Can you also tell me how you can be sure that planets are moving around the sun.

Also, can you actually explain to me what gravity actually is?

I said "in this case" which was specifically referring to the boat example.

Ok, so you're not sure if it's a pull or a push and it depends on how the argument goes against it...right?

Yes, gravitation influences are generally referred to as a pull.

Ok so now they're a pull.
Any chance you can tell me how this pull happens.
What is the force that creates this pull?
I know you mention mass attracts mass but I want to know what the force is that does this.
Is it magnetic or is it another force?
I mean you've discounted atmospheric pressure because of space and such, so magnetic seems to be the next thing and if that's not, then can you explain what gravity actually is as a force?

The contradiction comes from the fact that Newton's understanding of gravity was incomplete.  It was no secret that for all the success of Newton's gravity, there were still some things that it couldn't explain (such as the precession of Mercury's orbit). 
Einstein had the about 200 years or so of progress in physics research available since Newton published his work, so it shouldn't be any surprise that he was able to figure out some of the things that Newton couldn't. 

It took him a while, but Einstein was able to think far enough outside of the Newtonian box that he was able to figure out a mathematical model that could explain things that Newton's model couldn't.  There have been countless experimental tests of Einstein's model over the past 100 years or so and GR has passed all of them.

Can you explain what general relativity actually is in basic terms and how it actually works to prove gravity.

It was a fairly simple setup.  Basically, you take a paper strip attached to a weight and drop it trough a buzzer type device that makes a mark on the tape every 1/10 of a second.  Measure the distance between the marks to determine how fast the tape was moving.  Do that several times so that you can calculate the difference in speed between the marks and you have your acceleration.  It was a fairly crude setup and there were several potential sources of error that we identified (things like friction of the tape running through the buzzer), but we came up with a value that was in the general neighborhood of the accepted value of gravity.

Can you actually tell me how that proves what gravity actually is?

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 10:11:20 AM

It was a fairly simple setup.  Basically, you take a paper strip attached to a weight and drop it trough a buzzer type device that makes a mark on the tape every 1/10 of a second.  Measure the distance between the marks to determine how fast the tape was moving.  Do that several times so that you can calculate the difference in speed between the marks and you have your acceleration.  It was a fairly crude setup and there were several potential sources of error that we identified (things like friction of the tape running through the buzzer), but we came up with a value that was in the general neighborhood of the accepted value of gravity.

Yeah we did this in school. Our experimental set up allowed us mere schoolchildren to confirm that the acceleration due to gravity was the same as everyone else said it was.

You also learned about snow white and the seven dwarf's but there's no actual proof that an attractive young woman lived with 7 little men that sang hi ho on their way to work.

To be fair to sceptimatic those experiments don't actually prove gravity. They prove that objects accelerate downwards but not its cause. The Cavendish experiment however does prove gravity.

No need to be fair to me.
The Cavendish experiment isn't an experiment that proves anything at all, except that atmosphere agitates against objects and will act upon them over time, depending on their mass/density.

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 09:58:18 AM

why is gravity real?:
-Cavendish Experiment
-Planet movements around the sun.

now you show us how you know denpressure is real.

Can you explain exactly what is happening with the Cavendish experiment that proves gravity?

Can you also tell me how you can be sure that planets are moving around the sun.

Also, can you actually explain to me what gravity actually is?

See you you present an alternative theory then say, well, you have to explain your theory first.  Never mind the reams of pages devoted to explaining it.
Ok, that aside, from a non scientist, the cavendish experiment shows bodies with mass are attracted to each other.  Repeatable and explainable. 
We can see with modern optics, planets moving around the sun.
Why does the sun hit the top of a mountain first at sunrise?  How does bouncy work without an outside force pushing or pulling things down? 
I continue to engage you because I believe you believe your model and have put considerable thought into it.  Unlike a few here who simple rant it's flat and all evidence to the contrary is a lie.
Also spacecowgirl promised me cookies.  Love cookies.

Quote from: onebigmonkey on February 23, 2017, 10:46:16 AM

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 10:11:20 AM

It was a fairly simple setup.  Basically, you take a paper strip attached to a weight and drop it trough a buzzer type device that makes a mark on the tape every 1/10 of a second.  Measure the distance between the marks to determine how fast the tape was moving.  Do that several times so that you can calculate the difference in speed between the marks and you have your acceleration.  It was a fairly crude setup and there were several potential sources of error that we identified (things like friction of the tape running through the buzzer), but we came up with a value that was in the general neighborhood of the accepted value of gravity.

Yeah we did this in school. Our experimental set up allowed us mere schoolchildren to confirm that the acceleration due to gravity was the same as everyone else said it was.

You also learned about snow white and the seven dwarf's but there's no actual proof that an attractive young woman lived with 7 little men that sang hi ho on their way to work.

Lame non response.  I learned elephants are grey.  Cabinets are grey so elephants are caninets

Quote from: sokarul on February 23, 2017, 11:06:48 AM

Gravitational lensing is also evidence for gravity.

Not when the entire universe is a reflection off the dome

There is no universe in how you think.
Your entire life is inside the cell you are part of. This is your perceived universe....not out into light year so called space, that intelligent people should actually understand but somehow choose to go backward.

See you you present an alternative theory then say, well, you have to explain your theory first.  Never mind the reams of pages devoted to explaining it.
Ok, that aside, from a non scientist, the cavendish experiment shows bodies with mass are attracted to each other.  Repeatable and explainable.

Repeatable and explainable counts for nothing.
Dropping a ball can be repeatable and explainable but it doesn't mean the explanation is correct.
I can't work out the explanation for it because it literally makes no sense.
Strangely you can't make any sense of what I say for the reasons.
All I'm looking for, is the truth.
The truth is absolutely not the one being spun in mainstream.
 

We can see with modern optics, planets moving around the sun.

You can see something but you do not know what it all is except to be told what it is.
Admit it.

Why does the sun hit the top of a mountain first at sunrise?

Not quite sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate on this before I answer.

How does bouncy work without an outside force pushing or pulling things down?

What is bouncy?
 

I continue to engage you because I believe you believe your model and have put considerable thought into it.  Unlike a few here who simple rant it's flat and all evidence to the contrary is a lie.

I have a lot more depth to go into with mine but yes, I do have a belief in in, enough to keep me going forward.

Also spacecowgirl promised me cookies.  Love cookies.

Spacecowgirl is a good cookie and good cookerer of good cookies.

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 24, 2017, 12:12:39 AM

Quote from: onebigmonkey on February 23, 2017, 10:46:16 AM

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 10:11:20 AM

It was a fairly simple setup.  Basically, you take a paper strip attached to a weight and drop it trough a buzzer type device that makes a mark on the tape every 1/10 of a second.  Measure the distance between the marks to determine how fast the tape was moving.  Do that several times so that you can calculate the difference in speed between the marks and you have your acceleration.  It was a fairly crude setup and there were several potential sources of error that we identified (things like friction of the tape running through the buzzer), but we came up with a value that was in the general neighborhood of the accepted value of gravity.

Yeah we did this in school. Our experimental set up allowed us mere schoolchildren to confirm that the acceleration due to gravity was the same as everyone else said it was.

You also learned about snow white and the seven dwarf's but there's no actual proof that an attractive young woman lived with 7 little men that sang hi ho on their way to work.

Lame non response.  I learned elephants are grey.  Cabinets are grey so elephants are caninets

I don't know what a caninet is but I'll go along with you that they're something to do with the Elephant family.

Quote from: Badxtoss on February 24, 2017, 12:15:22 AM

See you you present an alternative theory then say, well, you have to explain your theory first.  Never mind the reams of pages devoted to explaining it.
Ok, that aside, from a non scientist, the cavendish experiment shows bodies with mass are attracted to each other.  Repeatable and explainable.

Repeatable and explainable counts for nothing.
Dropping a ball can be repeatable and explainable but it doesn't mean the explanation is correct.
I can't work out the explanation for it because it literally makes no sense.
Strangely you can't make any sense of what I say for the reasons.
All I'm looking for, is the truth.
The truth is absolutely not the one being spun in mainstream.
 

Quote from: Badxtoss on February 24, 2017, 12:15:22 AM

We can see with modern optics, planets moving around the sun.

You can see something but you do not know what it all is except to be told what it is.
Admit it.

Quote from: Badxtoss on February 24, 2017, 12:15:22 AM

Why does the sun hit the top of a mountain first at sunrise?

Not quite sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate on this before I answer.

Quote from: Badxtoss on February 24, 2017, 12:15:22 AM

How does bouncy work without an outside force pushing or pulling things down?

What is bouncy?
 

Quote from: Badxtoss on February 24, 2017, 12:15:22 AM

I continue to engage you because I believe you believe your model and have put considerable thought into it.  Unlike a few here who simple rant it's flat and all evidence to the contrary is a lie.

I have a lot more depth to go into with mine but yes, I do have a belief in in, enough to keep me going forward.

Quote from: Badxtoss on February 24, 2017, 12:15:22 AM

Also spacecowgirl promised me cookies.  Love cookies.

Spacecowgirl is a good cookie and good cookerer of good cookies.

Others understand the explanations.  Where have you looked?

Scepti just wants you guys to think, imo, he's not pushing his opinion on anyone, a lot of what he says makes sense to me, a lot doesn't make sense yet.

The way I see it, he's trying to teach something, if we want to learn it (regardless of your opinion on it) we're going to have to do it his way.

Scepti just wants you guys to think, imo, he's not pushing his opinion on anyone, a lot of what he says makes sense to me, a lot doesn't make sense yet.

The way I see it, he's trying to teach something, if we want to learn it (regardless of your opinion on it) we're going to have to do it his way.

So 1871 posts on and he still can't put some numbers to anything and talks about displacing pressure, total misuse of the term.  And is rude, which achieves nothing.

So don't talk to him, maybe?

Threads usually speak for themselves.

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 09:58:18 AM

why is gravity real?:
-Cavendish Experiment
-Planet movements around the sun.

now you show us how you know denpressure is real.

Can you explain exactly what is happening with the Cavendish experiment that proves gravity?

Can you also tell me how you can be sure that planets are moving around the sun.

Also, can you actually explain to me what gravity actually is?

Can you exactly explain how the Cavendish experiment works with your pressure idea.

Can you tell me how you can be sure that the sun we see is a reflection of light from a projector that is located at the north pole on a dome made of ice that spans over the earth.

You make this claims, you have to explain it.

So don't talk to him, maybe?

Threads usually speak for themselves.

We talk to him and ask the question to show other people that he has no prove of his claims.
He is only distracting with questions and statements to try to disprove current science.

So don't talk to him, maybe?

If everyone did that this thread would die after about 3 posts (much like when he tries to post this shite on other sites).  The only other people who post on on these denpressure megathreads are people arguing with him.

He likes the attention, so in his world the more people disagreeing with him the better.  Just being ignored would be tragic.

Sceptimatic--I'm trying to understand the hangup on asking everyone what gravity "is".  It's been pretty exhaustively explained as far as is currently possible, but I think there's a limit to what anyone can give you on this.  Do you want to know what gravity is made of?  Should we be able to show evidence of invisible elastic strings pulling things together?  You could as well ask what time is made of.

I don't mean to be confrontational, I'm just wondering what form could a satisfying answer to your question take?

Sceptimatic--I'm trying to understand the hangup on asking everyone what gravity "is".  It's been pretty exhaustively explained as far as is currently possible, but I think there's a limit to what anyone can give you on this.  Do you want to know what gravity is made of?  Should we be able to show evidence of invisible elastic strings pulling things together?  You could as well ask what time is made of.

I don't mean to be confrontational, I'm just wondering what form could a satisfying answer to your question take?

also a big thing is magnetism, it is undeniable existing and how it acts, but how it exactly works on the atomic level is (i think) not fully explained.
even without that explanation it is existing.
or does scepti also claim that it is caused by his denpressure. 

Sceptimatic--I'm trying to understand the hangup on asking everyone what gravity "is".  It's been pretty exhaustively explained as far as is currently possible, but I think there's a limit to what anyone can give you on this.  Do you want to know what gravity is made of?  Should we be able to show evidence of invisible elastic strings pulling things together?  You could as well ask what time is made of.

I don't mean to be confrontational, I'm just wondering what form could a satisfying answer to your question take?

It's not explained in a realistic way though, is it?

It boils down to magical explanations, overall.
The reality is hidden.

Now before you go into argument mode, you do not know what gravity is. You do not know if it's real. You do adhere to the explanations for no other reason than, it is what they say it is.
Right or wrong?
If I'm wrong then you explain gravity from your own mind to prove to me it's there.

All I ever see is Cavendish....Einstein...Newton.... they all knew it and they were all genius scientists....etc.

Quote from: deadsirius on February 24, 2017, 06:10:59 AM

Sceptimatic--I'm trying to understand the hangup on asking everyone what gravity "is".  It's been pretty exhaustively explained as far as is currently possible, but I think there's a limit to what anyone can give you on this.  Do you want to know what gravity is made of?  Should we be able to show evidence of invisible elastic strings pulling things together?  You could as well ask what time is made of.

I don't mean to be confrontational, I'm just wondering what form could a satisfying answer to your question take?

also a big thing is magnetism, it is undeniable existing and how it acts, but how it exactly works on the atomic level is (i think) not fully explained.
even without that explanation it is existing.
or does scepti also claim that it is caused by his denpressure. 

Course it's caused by denpressure.
Denpressure is the reason everything works.

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 09:58:18 AM

why is gravity real?:
-Cavendish Experiment
-Planet movements around the sun.

now you show us how you know denpressure is real.

Can you explain exactly what is happening with the Cavendish experiment that proves gravity?

Can you also tell me how you can be sure that planets are moving around the sun.

Also, can you actually explain to me what gravity actually is?

Can you explain why pressure which pushes equally on all sides somehow pushes things down?

If I'm wrong then you explain gravity from your own mind to prove to me it's there.

False dichotomy.  Einstein doesn't have to be right in order for you to be wrong.

Scepti, forget about Newton and Einstein.  Denpressure needs to be able to stand on its own merits.