Den Pressure - A Definable Hypothesis & Experiments (Scepti, iWitness)

Do you mean when filling the container with air, it takes time for the container to reach the same PSI as the inflow?  Well, Duh.

However the pressure inside the container will increase equally throughout until either the inflow stops or the pressure inside equals the inflow pressure.

If you mean something else, like one side of the container will have a higher pressure then the other and it takes time for the pressure to equalize inside.  Hmm, I've never heard that for a sealed container.  If that's the case, surely there is a measurable rate and formula.  Can you please provide them Jane the mathematician?

So.
The inflow has a higher pressure than the rest of the container. We agree on that.
But the whole container then increases at a uniform rate regardless of distance from the inflow? You're going to have to explain that one to me.

Apparently there are Den Pressure specific physics that you failed to mention all the way through your balloon analogy.

Well duh. Gave you a link. Not particularly interested in trying to explain even more to someone who's happy to die on the hill of "Any inflated chamber reaches equilibirum in an instant."

Come on jane.
Deflecting these other quwstions is easy.

Do things in sceptis world fall at 9.81 or not?

And if the force is pushing when at the edge, would we be able to walk up the bubble wall?

Come on!

Do things in sceptis world fall at 9.81 or not?

Depends on where you are and the shape of the object in question. A sheet of paper does not fall at the same rate as a hunk of lead.

And if the force is pushing when at the edge, would we be able to walk up the bubble wall?

No, but that's because of how the wall formed, go read up on the model. There is no energy for movement to occur at the roof of the dome, if you could move there then there you're not at the dome.

Quote from: Themightykabool on December 10, 2018, 12:11:07 PM

Do things in sceptis world fall at 9.81 or not?

Depends on where you are and the shape of the object in question. A sheet of paper does not fall at the same rate as a hunk of lead.

Quote

And if the force is pushing when at the edge, would we be able to walk up the bubble wall?

No, but that's because of how the wall formed, go read up on the model. There is no energy for movement to occur at the roof of the dome, if you could move there then there you're not at the dome.

So how is the dome not critical to den pressure again when now we have to examine how it is formed to answer the question?

Hoold up.
The dome must be impermeable to air.
If thats the case then the enrgy push felt at the "foundation" should still be the same as on the "wall" and on the "top" of the dome.
Why would the foundation feel a different push different than the dome?
If gravity was misinterpetted, denP is starting to feel next level fantasy level 55.

Quote from: Jane on December 10, 2018, 12:15:39 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on December 10, 2018, 12:11:07 PM

Do things in sceptis world fall at 9.81 or not?

Depends on where you are and the shape of the object in question. A sheet of paper does not fall at the same rate as a hunk of lead.

Quote

And if the force is pushing when at the edge, would we be able to walk up the bubble wall?

No, but that's because of how the wall formed, go read up on the model. There is no energy for movement to occur at the roof of the dome, if you could move there then there you're not at the dome.

So how is the dome not critical to den pressure again when now we have to examine how it is formed to answer the question?

It's deflection to curtail the fact that denspressure fails monumentally.

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on December 10, 2018, 08:04:57 AM

Do you mean when filling the container with air, it takes time for the container to reach the same PSI as the inflow?  Well, Duh.

However the pressure inside the container will increase equally throughout until either the inflow stops or the pressure inside equals the inflow pressure.

If you mean something else, like one side of the container will have a higher pressure then the other and it takes time for the pressure to equalize inside.  Hmm, I've never heard that for a sealed container.  If that's the case, surely there is a measurable rate and formula.  Can you please provide them Jane the mathematician?

So.
The inflow has a higher pressure than the rest of the container. We agree on that.
But the whole container then increases at a uniform rate regardless of distance from the inflow? You're going to have to explain that one to me.

Quote from: Unconvinced on December 10, 2018, 07:34:00 AM

Apparently there are Den Pressure specific physics that you failed to mention all the way through your balloon analogy.

Well duh. Gave you a link. Not particularly interested in trying to explain even more to someone who's happy to die on the hill of "Any inflated chamber reaches equilibirum in an instant."

If the flow is high velocity, it could be lower pressure than the rest of the downstream air in the balloon and therefore flow is opposite the pressure gradient. See: navier-stokes equations, Bernoulli, etc

Imo, you’re making it more difficult for confused people to learn how the physical world actually works. Simply put, I believe your activity on this forum is damaging to them by feeding their delusions

Quote from: Unconvinced on December 10, 2018, 07:34:00 AM

Apparently there are Den Pressure specific physics that you failed to mention all the way through your balloon analogy.

Well duh. Gave you a link. Not particularly interested in trying to explain even more to someone who's happy to die on the hill of "Any inflated chamber reaches equilibirum in an instant."

You mean the thing about the sun going round and "exciting the air"?  Or the physics of how gas pressure works?

BTW, didn't die on the hill of "Any inflated chamber reaches equilibrium in an instant".  I died on the hill of "balloons expand because of the pressure difference between the inside and outside", in response to your initial post:

Why do you think balloons expand when you inflate them? It's not because the force is balanced in all directions, because it could be going in any direction, it's because there is excessive force against the edges. If you are against that edge, you will be pinned to that edge. You're 'pressed in one direction' because the force isn't at equilibrium, you have to be pressed somewhere, and that's obvious going to be an edge. If you start off against the metal surface, are you seriously going to tell me the force wouldn't pin you to it?

Which doesn't seem to work as analogy of the dome anyway.  Unless the movement of the sun around the system somehow continuously increases pressure?  Is more air being added?  Is the dome shrinking?

Quote from: Themightykabool on December 10, 2018, 12:11:07 PM

Do things in sceptis world fall at 9.81 or not?

Depends on where you are and the shape of the object in question. A sheet of paper does not fall at the same rate as a hunk of lead.

Quote

And if the force is pushing when at the edge, would we be able to walk up the bubble wall?

No, but that's because of how the wall formed, go read up on the model. There is no energy for movement to occur at the roof of the dome, if you could move there then there you're not at the dome.

When I pump up a car tyre the pressure gauge reads at the pump and stays the same when I stop pumping so for all purposes the pressure is the same all over the tyre.

Quote from: Themightykabool on December 10, 2018, 12:11:07 PM

Do things in sceptis world fall at 9.81 or not?

Depends on where you are and the shape of the object in question. A sheet of paper does not fall at the same rate as a hunk of lead.

Quote

And if the force is pushing when at the edge, would we be able to walk up the bubble wall?

No, but that's because of how the wall formed, go read up on the model. There is no energy for movement to occur at the roof of the dome, if you could move there then there you're not at the dome.

Apparently how the dome is formed/functions is absolutely critical to how den pressure works. It’s not just an encasement, but has some special qualities that are required. That being the case, would it work on a globe earth? Does the earth have to be flat? Couldn’t this dome-ish membbrane thing be encasing a globe just as easily as a dome of the same properties over a flat earth? In other words, does the dome have to be a dome? And does the earth have to be flat?

Quote from: Jane on December 10, 2018, 12:15:39 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on December 10, 2018, 12:11:07 PM

Do things in sceptis world fall at 9.81 or not?

Depends on where you are and the shape of the object in question. A sheet of paper does not fall at the same rate as a hunk of lead.

Quote

And if the force is pushing when at the edge, would we be able to walk up the bubble wall?

No, but that's because of how the wall formed, go read up on the model. There is no energy for movement to occur at the roof of the dome, if you could move there then there you're not at the dome.

Apparently how the dome is formed/functions is absolutely critical to how den pressure works. It’s not just an encasement, but has some special qualities that are required. That being the case, would it work on a globe earth? Does the earth have to be flat? Couldn’t this dome-ish membbrane thing be encasing a globe just as easily as a dome of the same properties over a flat earth? In other words, does the dome have to be a dome? And does the earth have to be flat?

IIRC, in Scepti's Denspressure World the earth is flat, and the dome is made of frozen hydrogen and/or helium.  The hydrogen and/or Helium also melts to a liquid form as light from the giant carbon arc lamp, that's buried beneath the north pole and acts as the sun via reflection from the dome, reaches the dome.  It refreezes as the day progresses into night.

I'm sure Jane has all this information and can link right to it, because I really don't want to look through the 130+ pages between this topic and another where it could be posted.

Quote from: Stash on December 10, 2018, 01:00:32 PM

Quote from: Jane on December 10, 2018, 12:15:39 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on December 10, 2018, 12:11:07 PM

Do things in sceptis world fall at 9.81 or not?

Depends on where you are and the shape of the object in question. A sheet of paper does not fall at the same rate as a hunk of lead.

Quote

And if the force is pushing when at the edge, would we be able to walk up the bubble wall?

No, but that's because of how the wall formed, go read up on the model. There is no energy for movement to occur at the roof of the dome, if you could move there then there you're not at the dome.

Apparently how the dome is formed/functions is absolutely critical to how den pressure works. It’s not just an encasement, but has some special qualities that are required. That being the case, would it work on a globe earth? Does the earth have to be flat? Couldn’t this dome-ish membbrane thing be encasing a globe just as easily as a dome of the same properties over a flat earth? In other words, does the dome have to be a dome? And does the earth have to be flat?

IIRC, in Scepti's Denspressure World the earth is flat, and the dome is made of frozen hydrogen and/or helium.  The hydrogen and/or Helium also melts to a liquid form as light from the giant carbon arc lamp, that's buried beneath the north pole and acts as the sun via reflection from the dome, reaches the dome.  It refreezes as the day progresses into night.

I'm sure Jane has all this information and can link right to it, because I really don't want to look through the 130+ pages between this topic and another where it could be posted.

Thanks for the descriptor. I've read Jane's compendium, but missed the bit, "acts as the sun via reflection from the dome".

Seems like a lot of fancy stuff is required to make the dome and for the dome to do some fancy stuff to make den pressure do it's stuff. Most of which has never been observed by humans. I'm kind of at a loss as to where to go from here in terms of trying to understand the concept.

IIRC, in Scepti's Denspressure World the earth is flat, and the dome is made of frozen hydrogen and/or helium.  The hydrogen and/or Helium also melts to a liquid form as light from the giant carbon arc lamp, that's buried beneath the north pole and acts as the sun via reflection from the dome, reaches the dome.  It refreezes as the day progresses into night.

Small correction - the sun is on a tower on top of a mountain, rather than being buried.  Here's an artist's impression I had made:



The sun we see is a reflection of the arc-lamp spotlight on the ice dome.  The moon is a reflection of that reflection...I think.  The stars are reflections of crystals that are scattered round the sun tower.

How the reflection of the sun can be directly overhead for some people, and completely out of sight for others, is somewhat of a mystery.  Though to be fair most flat earth hypothesis struggle with this.

So how is the dome not critical to den pressure again when now we have to examine how it is formed to answer the question?

You don't. That was only an answer to the question of whether we'd be pushed against the dome, and could also be an answer to how the dome was created, neither of which are relevant to "Ok, what makes it push down?"

Imo, you’re making it more difficult for confused people to learn how the physical world actually works. Simply put, I believe your activity on this forum is damaging to them by feeding their delusions

The only people that are going to believe what they're told on a Flat Earth forum are people that already believe FET. Lying about their models to them makes us come across as desperate.

Which doesn't seem to work as analogy of the dome anyway.  Unless the movement of the sun around the system somehow continuously increases pressure?  Is more air being added?  Is the dome shrinking?

Breathing is Scepti's term, growing when the Sun's focused under it, relaxing again when it's further away.

And I'd point out this is all a far cry from "Denpressure has no reason to push down because chambers reach equilibrium in an instant and so never cause a force." So, job done, bye!

I see you are still claiming to have a good understanding of denpressure. Care to answer my old questions?

How much does 200kg of liquid argon weigh at 300 psi?

How much does 100g weigh at 1/10^th atmospheric pressure?

I see you are still claiming to have a good understanding of denpressure. Care to answer my old questions?

What kind of impression do you think you give of RET when you just ignore the posts that already responded?

It's not the answer you want. Get over it.

Quote from: Unconvinced on December 10, 2018, 12:48:05 PM

Which doesn't seem to work as analogy of the dome anyway.  Unless the movement of the sun around the system somehow continuously increases pressure?  Is more air being added?  Is the dome shrinking?

Breathing is Scepti's term, growing when the Sun's focused under it, relaxing again when it's further away.

And I'd point out this is all a far cry from "Denpressure has no reason to push down because chambers reach equilibrium in an instant and so never cause a force." So, job done, bye!

Hello!

So we can expect to be sucked off the planet at night?

Cool!  That makes perfect sense.

Don’t worry, I stand ready to burn my engineering books that tell me to use gauge pressure to calculate the hoop stress on a thin walled pressure vessel. 

Just as soon as you clarify your “something about equilibrium pressure while pumping that pushes things towards the outside but isn’t felt as air flow” model.

Quote from: sokarul on December 11, 2018, 05:13:40 AM

I see you are still claiming to have a good understanding of denpressure. Care to answer my old questions?

What kind of impression do you think you give of RET when you just ignore the posts that already responded?

It's not the answer you want. Get over it.

Is it because denpressure can’t answer the questions?

So we can expect to be sucked of the planet at night?

Yep, it is totally worth talking to you, you really make it worth all the effort it would take to explain something.

Is it because denpressure can’t answer the questions?

See above. Also see my last response to you. You cannot just transfer non-denpressure concepts over with zero explanation or clarification.

This isn’t a concept it actual world observations. Thousands and thousands of chemists and other people use liquid dewars everyday.

Quote from: Unconvinced on December 11, 2018, 05:23:43 AM

So we can expect to be sucked of the planet at night?

Yep, it is totally worth talking to you, you really make it worth all the effort it would take to explain something.

Well if you’re going to use positive downward pressure as an explanation for why we’re pushed to the surface, what do you think should happen when it’s reversed?

Soka,

How much does a magic carpet weigh?

A:  its imaginary fantasy so you cant appky real world physics to it.

Jane refuses to put that asterix and continues to dance around the subject.

Take note jane has been abandoned by professor scepti to defend this theory.

Come on scepti!
Do thngs not fall at 9.81???
You recenty denied this very easily provable measurement (rrgardless of reason why things fall).

Soka,

How much does a magic carpet weigh?

A:  its imaginary fantasy so you cant appky real world physics to it.

Jane refuses to put that asterix and continues to dance around the subject.

Take note jane has been abandoned by professor scepti to defend this theory.

Come on scepti!
Do things not fall at 9.81???
You recently denied this very easily provable measurement (regardless of reason why things fall).

Whatever the current atmospheric pressure.

So we can expect to be sucked off

Actually, that's extra.

Come on scepti!
Do thngs not fall at 9.81???
You recenty denied this very easily provable measurement (rrgardless of reason why things fall).

Some objects may fall at 9.81  but answer me a question.
How high have objects been dropped to verify they drop at 9.81?
Because when I bring that up about objects not adhering to that so called fact, I'm told it's because air resistance skews it.

Then I get told it works in a vacuum.
Where have they measured this 9.81 in a vacuum?

Unless you can physically prove this 9.81 as a consistent thing then all you're doing is following a narrative.

Quote from: Unconvinced on December 11, 2018, 05:23:43 AM

So we can expect to be sucked off

Actually, that's extra.

I had to laugh at that.

So we can expect to be sucked off the planet at night?

Where do you get this suck from?
You tell me anywhere on Earth that sucks (apart from the jokes and the quips).

If you think a so called vacuum sucks then you are not even at square one.

Seriously?
Youtube it.
You need help with that too?
Or is youtube part of the nasa conspiracy too?
Come on man.

Seriously?
Youtube it.
You need help with that too?
Or is youtube part of the nasa conspiracy too?
Come on man.

Mine is in response to sceptis disblief of things falling.

Not the hillarious sucking comments.
Gaha

This isn’t a concept it actual world observations. Thousands and thousands of chemists and other people use liquid dewars everyday.

So what. What's the problem with that?