Forces of nature, Brian Cox - pt2.

Learn how frames of reference work.

Learn how frames of reference work.

Tell me about it in your own words. Go on, convince me.

Quote from: Empirical on December 08, 2016, 02:05:09 AM

Learn how frames of reference work.

Tell me about it in your own words. Go on, convince me.

I think we have all seen how that little game plays out.  You just enjoy wasting people's time. 

Quote from: Empirical on December 08, 2016, 02:05:09 AM

Learn how frames of reference work.

Tell me about it in your own words. Go on, convince me.

Earth spins with surface velocity v, the plane moves with velocity -v relative to the surface of the earth, so to get the rockets velocity relative to not spinning you add the plane's velocity relative to the surface[/v] to the surfaces velocity relative to not spinning, which is v+-v=0. Hence the plane moves relative to the surface, but doesn't move relative to the sun.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 08, 2016, 02:06:49 AM

Quote from: Empirical on December 08, 2016, 02:05:09 AM

Learn how frames of reference work.

Tell me about it in your own words. Go on, convince me.

Earth spins with surface velocity v, the plane moves with velocity -v relative to the surface of the earth, so to get the rockets velocity relative to not spinning you add the plane's velocity relative to the surface[/v] to the surfaces velocity relative to not spinning, which is v+-v=0. Hence the plane moves relative to the surface, but doesn't move relative to the sun.

Can you clarify what you mean by "Earth spins with surface velocity"...?

Quote from: Empirical on December 08, 2016, 04:47:12 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 08, 2016, 02:06:49 AM

Quote from: Empirical on December 08, 2016, 02:05:09 AM

Learn how frames of reference work.

Tell me about it in your own words. Go on, convince me.

Earth spins with surface velocity v, the plane moves with velocity -v relative to the surface of the earth, so to get the rockets velocity relative to not spinning you add the plane's velocity relative to the surface[/v] to the surfaces velocity relative to not spinning, which is v+-v=0. Hence the plane moves relative to the surface, but doesn't move relative to the sun.

Can you clarify what you mean by "Earth spins with surface velocity"...?

It was a mathematical expression. You wouldn't get it.

Quote from: Empirical on December 08, 2016, 02:05:09 AM

Learn how frames of reference work.

Tell me about it in your own words. Go on, convince me.

Some months ago , in this very thread, I posted this:

The air has a speed relative to the sun of 650 mph away from the sun.
The jet has a speed relative to the air of 650 mph (i.e. it's flying) in the direction of the sun.
So the jet has a speed relative to the sun of 650 - 650 = 0 mph and the sun appears to freeze from the jet's point of view.

I don't know if you read it back then, but I hope you'll read it now, and I hope it helps.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 08, 2016, 02:06:49 AM

Quote from: Empirical on December 08, 2016, 02:05:09 AM

Learn how frames of reference work.

Tell me about it in your own words. Go on, convince me.

Some months ago , in this very thread, I posted this:

Quote

The air has a speed relative to the sun of 650 mph away from the sun.
The jet has a speed relative to the air of 650 mph (i.e. it's flying) in the direction of the sun.
So the jet has a speed relative to the sun of 650 - 650 = 0 mph and the sun appears to freeze from the jet's point of view.

I don't know if you read it back then, but I hope you'll read it now, and I hope it helps.

Which means a helicopter simply hovering overhead is magically locked to the spinning globe with a invisible clamp fixed to the ground and is hurtling away from the sun at 650 mph rather than standing still.

Which means a helicopter simply hovering overhead is magically locked to the spinning globe with a invisible clamp fixed to the ground and is hurtling away from the sun at 650 mph rather than standing still.

Another flatard who doesn't understand the simple laws of motion.

This is the same as thinking 'when I jump, why doesn't the earth move underneath me at 1000mph???' Before taking off to hover, the helicopter has momentum because it and everything else is moving with the earth which is spinning (remember?). I suppose you forgot that objects in motion tend to stay in motion unless acted on by an external force? What force is making the helicopter lose its momentum? I think you'll find, for all intents and purposes, there is none.

There is no magic here to anyone with even the slightest rudimentary understanding of Newton's laws of motion. But, since you're apparently a FE'er, all of these grade-school concepts have to be explained to you.

An example you can check is throwing a ball straight up on a train, it doesn't fly backwards, it will fall back down into your hand.

Quote from: Copper Knickers on December 08, 2016, 07:12:35 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 08, 2016, 02:06:49 AM

Quote from: Empirical on December 08, 2016, 02:05:09 AM

Learn how frames of reference work.

Tell me about it in your own words. Go on, convince me.

Some months ago , in this very thread, I posted this:

Quote

The air has a speed relative to the sun of 650 mph away from the sun.
The jet has a speed relative to the air of 650 mph (i.e. it's flying) in the direction of the sun.
So the jet has a speed relative to the sun of 650 - 650 = 0 mph and the sun appears to freeze from the jet's point of view.

I don't know if you read it back then, but I hope you'll read it now, and I hope it helps.

Which means a helicopter simply hovering overhead is magically locked to the spinning globe with a invisible clamp fixed to the ground and is hurtling away from the sun at 650 mph rather than standing still.

Indeed, a hovering helicopter would be travelling 650 mph relative to the sun (at sunset, at around 50^o latitude).

There's no magic required though. In fact, if the helicopter were not moving relative to the sun, then it would be moving at 650 mph relative to the air. Now that would be magic.

The silly magic tricks that global science plays is made to baffle the brain.

This jet catching up with Earth's atmosphere  to freeze the sun in position can sound plausible to anyone who wishes to simply not bother thinking any further forward.
But as we know, for every magic trick their is always something that can expose it for those who delve into it.

Ok so what the globalists argue for works like this.
A helicopter lifts off and hovers. We then get told that the helicopter is dragged along with the atmosphere that was already rotating with the solid Earth.

Ok we all know this baloney...and believe me, any rational person should be under no illusions about that.
However, let's give them their magic trick.

Let's raise up a jet which is naturally dragged along. A harrier jump jet for clarity.
Ok it hovers but is dragged along at 650 mph and the sun is moving away from its sight because the Earth and the atmosphere is dragging the jet backwards as we already are told.

The pilot then wants to negate that 650 mph drag so he jets directly against it at 650 mph and so, freezes the sun in position.

Basically he's left the Earth SOLID spinning under him at 650 mph but he is actually hovering in the atmosphere because he's negated the atmosphere and not the spin.

Clever and absolutely crazy isn't it?
So you see, an observer on the ground will still spin with the Earth and atmosphere but will see the jet whizz away at 650mph.

It's quite confusing and magical and yet weirdly feasible amid all of the magic thoughts, right?

So the very least we know is that a jet can negate the atmospheric drag. Brian Cox literally shows it and tells the story in the video.
There's no mistaking what he's saying.

Ok so now that the jet has negated the atmosphere, it can, in theory about turn and just follow the Earth spin directly and catch up with it's solid floor, meaning the pilot can see an area of ground as if he's hovering but weirdly his instrument panel shows he's doing 650 mph.

Now we know harriers can hover but not at 650 mph so something is wrong, so what could it be?

Let's look at a flat Earth explanation.
The jet takes off from a flat Earth. The sun is moving over the Earth at 650 mph but to the observer on the ground it's moving slowly.
The jet wants to catch up to it to make the sun look like it's froze in place. It reached 650 mph and sees that this is the speed where the sun appears to freeze.
The jet has caught up with the movement of the sun.
No magical spinning Earth's and no magical atmosphere's that magically stick to solids. Just a good old jet chasing a source of light and heat like a fast cat chasing a moving torch beam.


Flat Earth or rotating globe?


Does it really need to be argued?

Atmospheric pressure under a dome is waved away in favour of a spinning frigging ball in a nothingness but also a warped space time mattress dent and blah blah blah.

It's so silly.

Well, we can observe other spinning balls in the nothingness, so it's not unreasonable to assume the Earth may be the same. Assuming a dome when there's no evidence for it, and we cant observe it elsewhere, is more of a stretch.'

There's also evidence of warped space (gravitational lensing).

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 05, 2016, 10:06:37 AM

Atmospheric pressure under a dome is waved away in favour of a spinning frigging ball in a nothingness but also a warped space time mattress dent and blah blah blah.

It's so silly.

Well, we can observe other spinning balls in the nothingness, so it's not unreasonable to assume the Earth may be the same. Assuming a dome when there's no evidence for it, and we cant observe it elsewhere, is more of a stretch.'

There's also evidence of warped space (gravitational lensing).

Yep, about as much evidence as big foot riding a unicorn.

Quote from: PsychedelicPill on December 09, 2016, 04:49:44 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 05, 2016, 10:06:37 AM

Atmospheric pressure under a dome is waved away in favour of a spinning frigging ball in a nothingness but also a warped space time mattress dent and blah blah blah.

It's so silly.

Well, we can observe other spinning balls in the nothingness, so it's not unreasonable to assume the Earth may be the same. Assuming a dome when there's no evidence for it, and we cant observe it elsewhere, is more of a stretch.'

There's also evidence of warped space (gravitational lensing).

Yep, about as much evidence as big foot riding a unicorn.

There's more evidence for gravitational lensing than evidence for a graphite arc light coming from the north pole.

The silly magic tricks that global science plays is made to baffle the brain.

This jet catching up with Earth's atmosphere  to freeze the sun in position can sound plausible to anyone who wishes to simply not bother thinking any further forward.
But as we know, for every magic trick their is always something that can expose it for those who delve into it.

Ok so what the globalists argue for works like this.
A helicopter lifts off and hovers. We then get told that the helicopter is dragged along with the atmosphere that was already rotating with the solid Earth.

Ok we all know this baloney...

Well, you claim it's baloney. We can all agree on that.

and believe me, any rational person should be under no illusions about that.

Why would any rational person believe you?

Speaking of which, have you gotten any further toward finishing the scale model of the Ice Dome you claimed would be ready for testing "in a few months" almost a year and a half ago?

However, let's give them their magic trick.

Let's raise up a jet which is naturally dragged along. A harrier jump jet for clarity.
Ok it hovers but is dragged along at 650 mph and the sun is moving away from its sight because the Earth and the atmosphere is dragging the jet backwards as we already are told.

The pilot then wants to negate that 650 mph drag so he jets directly against it at 650 mph and so, freezes the sun in position.

Basically he's left the Earth SOLID spinning under him at 650 mph but he is actually hovering in the atmosphere because he's negated the atmosphere and not the spin.

No. He's jetting through the atmosphere at 650 mph, not hovering in it. You said exactly that in the paragraph before. Don't you read what you write?

Clever and absolutely crazy isn't it?
So you see, an observer on the ground will still spin with the Earth and atmosphere but will see the jet whizz away at 650mph.

Um... yes? Remember, you said the pilot started jetting away from the spot he was hovering above at 650 MPH.

It's quite confusing and magical and yet weirdly feasible amid all of the magic thoughts, right?

If you're that confused by this, it's not surprising you think it's magic.

So the very least we know is that a jet can negate the atmospheric drag. Brian Cox literally shows it and tells the story in the video.
There's no mistaking what he's saying.

You seem to have no problem mistaking what he's saying. We can hope it's because you want to misunderstand.

Ok so now that the jet has negated the atmosphere, it can, in theory about turn and just follow the Earth spin directly and catch up with it's solid floor, meaning the pilot can see an area of ground as if he's hovering but weirdly his instrument panel shows he's doing 650 mph.

If he turns about, he's still flying at 650 mph, but in the opposite direction. He'll pass the point he started in the time it took to get him to the turn-about point.

Now we know harriers can hover but not at 650 mph so something is wrong, so what could it be?

Why do you think he's hovering? He's flying at 650 miles in the opposite direction he started. What's wrong? Your utter confusion.

Let's look at a flat Earth explanation.
The jet takes off from a flat Earth. The sun is moving over the Earth at 650 mph but to the observer on the ground it's moving slowly.
The jet wants to catch up to it to make the sun look like it's froze in place. It reached 650 mph and sees that this is the speed where the sun appears to freeze.
The jet has caught up with the movement of the sun.
No magical spinning Earth's and no magical atmosphere's that magically stick to solids. Just a good old jet chasing a source of light and heat like a fast cat chasing a moving torch beam.

Flat Earth [no need to shout] or rotating globe?

Rotating globe, obviously. The magic would be needed to make the sun set on a flat earth; a rotating globe doesn't need any of that.

Does it really need to be argued?

No, but for some reason you try anyway.

Quote from: jbairagi on December 08, 2016, 09:42:41 AM

Which means a helicopter simply hovering overhead is magically locked to the spinning globe with a invisible clamp fixed to the ground and is hurtling away from the sun at 650 mph rather than standing still.

Another flatard who doesn't understand the simple laws of motion.

This is the same as thinking 'when I jump, why doesn't the earth move underneath me at 1000mph???' Before taking off to hover, the helicopter has momentum because it and everything else is moving with the earth which is spinning (remember?). I suppose you forgot that objects in motion tend to stay in motion unless acted on by an external force? What force is making the helicopter lose its momentum? I think you'll find, for all intents and purposes, there is none.

There is no magic here to anyone with even the slightest rudimentary understanding of Newton's laws of motion. But, since you're apparently a FE'er, all of these grade-school concepts have to be explained to you.

Okay, lets assume the helicopter is indeed moving in tandem with the spinning globe because of the momentum. Now suppose the pilot decides to go full thrust to the west with the net effect of "reducing its velocity relative to the spinning earth" and hence the momentum.

Now, lets say after going a few miles the pilot decides to stop the thrust and just hover again. Now then by what magic the copter is regaining its lost momentum to start moving in sync with the spinning globe again.

Desperate attempts to deflect it by the usual suspects.

Quote from: FETlolcakes on December 08, 2016, 11:39:10 AM

Quote from: jbairagi on December 08, 2016, 09:42:41 AM

Which means a helicopter simply hovering overhead is magically locked to the spinning globe with a invisible clamp fixed to the ground and is hurtling away from the sun at 650 mph rather than standing still.

Another flatard who doesn't understand the simple laws of motion.

This is the same as thinking 'when I jump, why doesn't the earth move underneath me at 1000mph???' Before taking off to hover, the helicopter has momentum because it and everything else is moving with the earth which is spinning (remember?). I suppose you forgot that objects in motion tend to stay in motion unless acted on by an external force? What force is making the helicopter lose its momentum? I think you'll find, for all intents and purposes, there is none.

There is no magic here to anyone with even the slightest rudimentary understanding of Newton's laws of motion. But, since you're apparently a FE'er, all of these grade-school concepts have to be explained to you.

Okay, lets assume the helicopter is indeed moving in tandem with the spinning globe because of the momentum. Now suppose the pilot decides to go full thrust to the west with the net effect of "reducing its velocity relative to the spinning earth" and hence the momentum.

Now, lets say after going a few miles the pilot decides to stop the thrust and just hover again. Now then by what magic the copter is regaining its lost momentum to start moving in sync with the spinning globe again.

Helicopters can't break the marriage bond between solid Earth and atmosphere. Only jets with Brian Cox in them can do it.
Globalists can pick and choose when and how things negate atmosphere or not.
They can choose coriolis or not. It all depends on how tight they get tucked into a corner.

Quote from: jbairagi on December 10, 2016, 12:39:43 AM

Quote from: FETlolcakes on December 08, 2016, 11:39:10 AM

Quote from: jbairagi on December 08, 2016, 09:42:41 AM

Which means a helicopter simply hovering overhead is magically locked to the spinning globe with a invisible clamp fixed to the ground and is hurtling away from the sun at 650 mph rather than standing still.

Another flatard who doesn't understand the simple laws of motion.

This is the same as thinking 'when I jump, why doesn't the earth move underneath me at 1000mph???' Before taking off to hover, the helicopter has momentum because it and everything else is moving with the earth which is spinning (remember?). I suppose you forgot that objects in motion tend to stay in motion unless acted on by an external force? What force is making the helicopter lose its momentum? I think you'll find, for all intents and purposes, there is none.

There is no magic here to anyone with even the slightest rudimentary understanding of Newton's laws of motion. But, since you're apparently a FE'er, all of these grade-school concepts have to be explained to you.

Okay, lets assume the helicopter is indeed moving in tandem with the spinning globe because of the momentum. Now suppose the pilot decides to go full thrust to the west with the net effect of "reducing its velocity relative to the spinning earth" and hence the momentum.

Now, lets say after going a few miles the pilot decides to stop the thrust and just hover again. Now then by what magic the copter is regaining its lost momentum to start moving in sync with the spinning globe again.

Helicopters can't break the marriage bond between solid Earth and atmosphere. Only jets with Brian Cox in them can do it.
Globalists can pick and choose when and how things negate atmosphere or not.
They can choose coriolis or not. It all depends on how tight they get tucked into a corner.

 

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 09, 2016, 12:17:40 AM

The silly magic tricks that global science plays is made to baffle the brain.

This jet catching up with Earth's atmosphere  to freeze the sun in position can sound plausible to anyone who wishes to simply not bother thinking any further forward.
But as we know, for every magic trick their is always something that can expose it for those who delve into it.

Ok so what the globalists argue for works like this.
A helicopter lifts off and hovers. We then get told that the helicopter is dragged along with the atmosphere that was already rotating with the solid Earth.

Ok we all know this baloney...

Well, you claim it's baloney. We can all agree on that.

Quote

and believe me, any rational person should be under no illusions about that.

Why would any rational person believe you?

Speaking of which, have you gotten any further toward finishing the scale model of the Ice Dome you claimed would be ready for testing "in a few months" almost a year and a half ago?

Quote

However, let's give them their magic trick.

Let's raise up a jet which is naturally dragged along. A harrier jump jet for clarity.
Ok it hovers but is dragged along at 650 mph and the sun is moving away from its sight because the Earth and the atmosphere is dragging the jet backwards as we already are told.

The pilot then wants to negate that 650 mph drag so he jets directly against it at 650 mph and so, freezes the sun in position.

Basically he's left the Earth SOLID spinning under him at 650 mph but he is actually hovering in the atmosphere because he's negated the atmosphere and not the spin.

No. He's jetting through the atmosphere at 650 mph, not hovering in it. You said exactly that in the paragraph before. Don't you read what you write?

Quote

Clever and absolutely crazy isn't it?
So you see, an observer on the ground will still spin with the Earth and atmosphere but will see the jet whizz away at 650mph.

Um... yes? Remember, you said the pilot started jetting away from the spot he was hovering above at 650 MPH.

Quote

It's quite confusing and magical and yet weirdly feasible amid all of the magic thoughts, right?

If you're that confused by this, it's not surprising you think it's magic.

Quote

So the very least we know is that a jet can negate the atmospheric drag. Brian Cox literally shows it and tells the story in the video.
There's no mistaking what he's saying.

You seem to have no problem mistaking what he's saying. We can hope it's because you want to misunderstand.

Quote

Ok so now that the jet has negated the atmosphere, it can, in theory about turn and just follow the Earth spin directly and catch up with it's solid floor, meaning the pilot can see an area of ground as if he's hovering but weirdly his instrument panel shows he's doing 650 mph.

If he turns about, he's still flying at 650 mph, but in the opposite direction. He'll pass the point he started in the time it took to get him to the turn-about point.

Quote

Now we know harriers can hover but not at 650 mph so something is wrong, so what could it be?

Why do you think he's hovering? He's flying at 650 miles in the opposite direction he started. What's wrong? Your utter confusion.

Quote

Let's look at a flat Earth explanation.
The jet takes off from a flat Earth. The sun is moving over the Earth at 650 mph but to the observer on the ground it's moving slowly.
The jet wants to catch up to it to make the sun look like it's froze in place. It reached 650 mph and sees that this is the speed where the sun appears to freeze.
The jet has caught up with the movement of the sun.
No magical spinning Earth's and no magical atmosphere's that magically stick to solids. Just a good old jet chasing a source of light and heat like a fast cat chasing a moving torch beam.

Flat Earth [no need to shout] or rotating globe?

Rotating globe, obviously. The magic would be needed to make the sun set on a flat earth; a rotating globe doesn't need any of that.

Quote

Does it really need to be argued?

No, but for some reason you try anyway.

Those two older threads look interesting Scepti. Is your dome model working yet?

Those two older threads look interesting Scepti. Is your dome model working yet?

It's working fine. I enjoy tinkering with it.

By "tinkering" he means "sitting in his room and pondering"

God forbid he actually try to LOOK AT the world around him.

Quote from: IonSpen on December 10, 2016, 05:34:05 AM

Those two older threads look interesting Scepti. Is your dome model working yet?

It's working fine. I enjoy tinkering with it.

Are you gonna share it here? Sounds like the beginning of an interesting discussion. You have posted quite a bit about the preliminary stages, are you going to show us the outcome of your model? What good does it do to keep it to yourself? Video, picture, diagrams.. I'm interested.

Desperate attempts to deflect it by the usual suspects.

No answers from the usual suspect to relevant questions and comments about the topic at hand.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 10, 2016, 06:00:44 AM

Quote from: IonSpen on December 10, 2016, 05:34:05 AM

Those two older threads look interesting Scepti. Is your dome model working yet?

It's working fine. I enjoy tinkering with it.

Are you gonna share it here? Sounds like the beginning of an interesting discussion. You have posted quite a bit about the preliminary stages, are you going to show us the outcome of your model? What good does it do to keep it to yourself? Video, picture, diagrams.. I'm interested.

"It's working fine." Yeah, sure. Presuming it exists, it must not be showing what he expected. Otherwise he'd be asking us to explain stuff that he'd 'proved' by using it. It's been mighty quiet for these many months.

On the fictional globe, that means West to East flights would be faster and East to West flights would be slower at all times.

Why?

The pilot says: We have reached 650 mph, so we are travelling at PRECISELY at the speed of the Earth's rotation. So we STOP the sun as we can see it's about two thirds down.

Brian Cox says: So it should just STAY there now because we are going EXACTLY the same speed as the Earth.

Brian Cox says: But travel faster than the planets SURFACE and the normal passage of the day, is REVERSED.
As the jet accelerates it begins to OVERTAKE the spin of the Earth. Causing the setting sun to rise again.

The pilot says: It's starting to GROW A LITTLE. (THE SUN).

Brian Cox replies: It is, I can see it; we are beating the Earth.

Still not seeing a problem.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 10, 2016, 06:00:44 AM

Quote from: IonSpen on December 10, 2016, 05:34:05 AM

Those two older threads look interesting Scepti. Is your dome model working yet?

It's working fine. I enjoy tinkering with it.

Are you gonna share it here? Sounds like the beginning of an interesting discussion. You have posted quite a bit about the preliminary stages, are you going to show us the outcome of your model? What good does it do to keep it to yourself? Video, picture, diagrams.. I'm interested.

I've already shared it with the people I trust. Sorry to disappoint you but I don't trust you. That's not to say you are untrustworthy in life, it just means that  "I" do not trust anyone that I do not personally know, which means internet persona's.

"It's working fine." Yeah, sure. Presuming it exists, it must not be showing what he expected. Otherwise he'd be asking us to explain stuff that he'd 'proved' by using it. It's been mighty quiet for these many months.

If everything was as clear as day and mapped out with every equation you required for anything to do with a flat Earth, you would still be saying the same stuff.
You're about as trustworthy as leaving a pack of hungry wolves with a chicken with broken wings and legs.

Quote from: totallackey on November 27, 2016, 04:01:29 AM

On the fictional globe, that means West to East flights would be faster and East to West flights would be slower at all times.

Why?

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 07, 2016, 11:50:18 PM

The pilot says: We have reached 650 mph, so we are travelling at PRECISELY at the speed of the Earth's rotation. So we STOP the sun as we can see it's about two thirds down.

Brian Cox says: So it should just STAY there now because we are going EXACTLY the same speed as the Earth.

Brian Cox says: But travel faster than the planets SURFACE and the normal passage of the day, is REVERSED.
As the jet accelerates it begins to OVERTAKE the spin of the Earth. Causing the setting sun to rise again.

The pilot says: It's starting to GROW A LITTLE. (THE SUN).

Brian Cox replies: It is, I can see it; we are beating the Earth.

Still not seeing a problem.

Of course you don't see a problem. You're not programmed to see a problem, unless it's against your programming.

Of course you don't see a problem. You're not programmed to see a problem, unless it's against your programming.

Is that meant to make sense?