People on skateboards.

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ergovivo

Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1440 on: December 28, 2015, 09:58:29 AM »
I am amazed by the stupidity of this thread, motion cannot happen in a vacuum!!! Yes it can and I see no reason why. I know you reason is "I don't understand how rockets work so I will assume they work by pushing against the air" they don't, conservation of momentum, that's how they work. But why would the laws of physics matter here? No, lets make are own ones up.
An object cannot move if we don't want it to, great one!!

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getrealzommb

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1441 on: December 28, 2015, 10:10:54 AM »
I am amazed by the stupidity of this thread, motion cannot happen in a vacuum!!! Yes it can and I see no reason why. I know you reason is "I don't understand how rockets work so I will assume they work by pushing against the air" they don't, conservation of momentum, that's how they work. But why would the laws of physics matter here? No, lets make are own ones up.
An object cannot move if we don't want it to, great one!!

I got to be careful what I say here, I,ve had a Moderator warnings for saying this but still: Welcome to the mind of a flat earther.

Conservation of momentum is tough to understand but once you accept reality it works. I see lots of assumptions of anchorage and leverage requirements although these assumptions are clearly a lack of understanding. Its similar for a lot of flat earthers views.

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markjo

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1442 on: December 28, 2015, 11:55:12 AM »
I'll be more than happy to study a set of equation showing how thrust changes with altitude but u still haven't provided one
The problem with you people is that you believe equations are the answer to any issue  and you cannot use basic logic to see the basic truth.
Did you ever consider the possibility that equations can be used in the real world to test your basic logic and see if you've found the basic truth about rockets?
Space isn't your real world, markjo; it's a fantasy that was sold to people like you and me and a fantasy that is/was expected to be adhered to as reality and not to be questioned as the clear fantasy it really is when looked at logically - amid all of the silly equations to go with it that mean absolutely eff all.
Space is no more a fantasy than denpressure or your ice dome.

Understanding how equations were derived is what allows people to put their "basic logic" to the test with real world experiments, whether they be in space, on land or anywhere in between.  In short, if you don't have equations that accurately describe your idea, then you don't have squat.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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ergovivo

Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1443 on: December 28, 2015, 12:49:43 PM »
You are not exerting anything onto the board any more than  the board is exerting back onto you.
You are left with outstretched arms touching that board and that's it. None of you go anywhere from this point.
You end up with your fingertips touching the board and your toes touching the skate-board.
So when you push the board away from you it has velocity, untill it sudenly loses it before it stops touching your fingers, what force makes it lose the velocity. An object in motion remains in motion unless acted on by a force.

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rabinoz

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1444 on: December 30, 2015, 03:57:15 PM »
The J2 would be nice; it went to teh munn, you know!

And how it came back; how did the braking/deceleration process from ~40,000 km/h to "parachute deployment speeds" work? :D
I know I am very late replying to this bit, but you ask "how did the braking/deceleration process from ~40,000 km/h"?
Well, it didn't!  The velocity at separation was about 6012 km/hr at an altitude of 76 km.  The velocity is nothing like orbital velocity.  I don't yet know yet maximum velocity of stage 1 during recovery, it may have been higher.
The hyper-sonic drag grid fins are a means of reducing the terminal velocity.  Maybe it's not so impossible!

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1445 on: December 31, 2015, 05:26:38 AM »
You agreed you can flow more into a chamber than out of it.

This only happened in your imagination.

For the good of society, please remember that the voices in your head are not Real.

if you don't have equations that accurately describe your idea, then you don't have squat.

Please provide the equations that prove whether you are Lying or not.

If you cannot, then it is logical to assume that words are more powerful tools than equations for describing Reality.

I know I am very late replying to this bit, but you ask "how did the braking/deceleration process from ~40,000 km/h"?
Well, it didn't!  The velocity at separation was about 6012 km/hr at an altitude of 76 km.  The velocity is nothing like orbital velocity.  I don't yet know yet maximum velocity of stage 1 during recovery, it may have been higher.
The hyper-sonic drag grid fins are a means of reducing the terminal velocity.  Maybe it's not so impossible!

I can only begin to imagine how drunk you were whilst writing this; did you fall asleep in a bathtub full of gin?

We were talking about the ridiculous Apollo farce-capsule re-entry, not the ridiculous SpaceX farce-rokkit.

Also, adding the words 'hypersonic' & 'drag' to the words 'grid fins' will not somehow make them functional.

It is merely a sign of typical shpayze-tard techno-babble loghorrea.
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1446 on: December 31, 2015, 10:59:43 AM »
if you don't have equations that accurately describe your idea, then you don't have squat.

Please provide the equations that prove whether you are Lying or not.

If you cannot, then it is logical to assume that words are more powerful tools than equations for describing Reality.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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sceptimatic

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1447 on: December 31, 2015, 11:05:59 AM »
if you don't have equations that accurately describe your idea, then you don't have squat.

Please provide the equations that prove whether you are Lying or not.

If you cannot, then it is logical to assume that words are more powerful tools than equations for describing Reality.

I think you misunderstood what Papa was getting at.

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1448 on: December 31, 2015, 12:00:01 PM »
Of course he did.

That is his Nature.

Sadly, he also seems to have misunderstood what Newton was getting at too...

F=m*v?

Oh dear!
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luckyfred

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1449 on: December 31, 2015, 02:12:05 PM »
Have u noticed the little dot over the M? That means is the time derivative of mass.
 Mass flow times velocity is a force

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1450 on: December 31, 2015, 02:18:46 PM »
Have you noticed that if you actually research this bullshit you find the best physicists in the world telling you it isn't true?

If not, then research a bit harder.

Because no educated person believes this nonsense.
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inquisitive

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1451 on: December 31, 2015, 02:49:01 PM »
Have you noticed that if you actually research this bullshit you find the best physicists in the world telling you it isn't true?

If not, then research a bit harder.

Because no educated person believes this nonsense.
Links please.

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Gaia_Redonda

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1452 on: December 31, 2015, 03:12:14 PM »
Have u noticed the little dot over the M? That means is the time derivative of mass.
 Mass flow times velocity is a force
Time derivative of mass?? :D That doesn't exist.

Force (F) is mass (m) times the derivative of time that has velocity; acceleration (a = dv/dt).

Freaky clowns.
I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses - Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)

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luckyfred

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1453 on: December 31, 2015, 05:13:59 PM »
Have u noticed the little dot over the M? That means is the time derivative of mass.
 Mass flow times velocity is a force
Time derivative of mass?? :D That doesn't exist.

Force (F) is mass (m) times the derivative of time that has velocity; acceleration (a = dv/dt).

Freaky clowns.


Derivation is a mathematical tool, I can derivate whatever I want. I can calculate the time derivative of pressure or density...

Lol

I think u should study a bit more  physics...and Latin also

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rabinoz

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1454 on: December 31, 2015, 10:37:29 PM »
Have u noticed the little dot over the M? That means is the time derivative of mass.
 Mass flow times velocity is a force
Time derivative of mass?? :D That doesn't exist.

Force (F) is mass (m) times the derivative of time that has velocity; acceleration (a = dv/dt).

Freaky clowns.
Your claim "Force (F) is mass (m) times the derivative of time that has velocity; acceleration (a = dv/dt)." is only partly correct, try:
Force (F) is the time derivative of time that has momentum (p) and momentum (p) is mass (m) times velocity (v).
Hence F = d(mv)/dt.
In the case of a rocket the total mass does change as the fuel is burnt and ejected.
Go check up any good reference on the rocket thrust equation.

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1455 on: December 31, 2015, 11:15:51 PM »
Seems notorious youtube troll rab downunder is trying to play the intellectual.

But let's look at how he thinks a rocket works again:

it pushes on ejected fuel.

Oh dear!

He somehow believes that an object can create a Reaction from its own Action...

Silly clown derfer!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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rabinoz

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1456 on: January 01, 2016, 03:49:47 AM »
Seems notorious youtube troll rab downunder is trying to play the intellectual.
But let's look at how he thinks a rocket works again:
it pushes on ejected fuel.
Oh dear!
He somehow believes that an object can create a Reaction from its own Action...
Silly clown derfer!
Oh, and I thought that Newton's second law implied that force = rate of change of momentum.  This ejected burnt fuel leads to a rate of change of mass, hence the rate of change of momentum.  Even Konstantin Tsiolkovsky (in 1896) and Robert Goddard (1914) knew this.  I am afraid poor Papa is over a century out of date!  Go study up your Rocket Engineering 101 again.  Oh, sorry you slept through that class - no wonder you're so ignorant!
This leads to the rocket thrust equation shown here from an impeccable source, now off with you and play with your little toy skyrockets for the New Year.

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1457 on: January 01, 2016, 04:56:58 AM »
This ejected burnt fuel leads to a rate of change of mass, hence the rate of change of momentum.

LOL!!!

So Newton's 3rd goes out the window now?

Seems your New Year's resolution to stop drinking is also out the window, Twelve-Steps...

Whilst we're here, we may as well amuse ourselves by looking at an example of your disturbingly infantile & creepy 'sense of humour' again:

"Oh look mummy!  Papa Legba is the only one in step!"

So much Wrong in so few words!

Toodle-pip, weirdo!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1458 on: January 01, 2016, 07:20:08 AM »
*Yawn!*

Homework time again, shpayze-tards...

The combustion chamber of a rocket is open to the near-infinite vacuum of space.

Therefore, no gas can even be meaningfully said to exist within it, let alone combust.

Any gas introduced therein when the pressurised fuel tank leading to the combustion chamber is opened will simply expand freely into the enormous, zero-pressure vacuum, following the path of least resistance & doing no work whatsoever.

This will continue for as long as the fuel tank & chamber are open to the vacuum, until both exterior & interior pressures are equalised at zero.

It is a beautifully simple concept, fully supported by All the laws of physics, yet you 'round earthers' (lol!) just can't seem to grasp it...


Plus this:

You all claim that the recoil of a gun is a valid analogy for how a rocket works in a vacuum.

Here is why it is not:

With a gun you have object A, the mass of the gun; the expanding propellant, P, the gunpowder, sited between them; and object B, the mass of the bullet.

But with a rocket you ONLY have object A, the mass of the rocket,  & the expanding propellant, P, the fuel.

No object B, see?

Thus, you have removed the necessary recoil mass required to produce motion.

But we know a rocket DOES produce motion, don't we?

Ergo, some other mass MUST be taking the place of object B.

& the ONLY possibility for that other mass is the Atmosphere.

Ergo, NO atmosphere, NO motion; rockets CANNOT function in a vacuum.

Q.E.D.

No matter how hard you try to spin it, cultists, every child knows that You cannot Push on Nothing.

No maths required; only common sense.



Then there's the fact that you are all trying desperately to confine this 'debate' to the wrong branch of physics, i.e. Solid Mechanics rather than Fluid Mechanics...

Kinda dishonest of you, dontcha think?

Pressure-Gradient Forces, Gas Laws, Fluid Mechanics, Continuum Assumption & Joules Expansion are the areas I suggest neutral readers research.
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1459 on: January 01, 2016, 02:50:54 PM »
Of course he did.

That is his Nature.

Sadly, he also seems to have misunderstood what Newton was getting at too...

F=m*v?
It seems that  you misunderstand the concept of mass flow.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Rayzor

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1460 on: January 01, 2016, 05:01:46 PM »
I need to warn people about Papa Legba,   he is an evil spirit infesting the forum. 

In Haitian Vodou, Papa Legba is the loa who serves as the intermediary between the loa and humanity. He stands at a spiritual crossroads and gives (or denies) permission to speak with the spirits of Guinee, and is believed to speak all human languages. In Haiti, he is the great elocutioner. Legba facilitates communication, speech, and understanding.

Our Papa Legba is a fake,   he obstructs communication speech and understanding..    he is upsetting voodoo spirits.   be warned,  be afraid.

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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rabinoz

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1461 on: January 01, 2016, 10:31:36 PM »
*Yawn!*
Stop wasting time and space with repeating this utter rubbish.  Funny that nobody else seems to agree with you!
Please write out 1000 times that a rocket works in a vacuum because force=dp/dt, where p = mv.

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rabinoz

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1462 on: January 02, 2016, 01:03:51 AM »
Of course he did.

That is his Nature.

Sadly, he also seems to have misunderstood what Newton was getting at too...

F=m*v?
I missed this little bit, nowhere did anyone (except you) say "F=m*v". 
No, force (F) = time derivative of momentum (p = m*v).
so F=d(m*v)/dt or if the velocity (exhaust velocity here) is constant F =  (dm/dt)*v.  In the diagram dm/dt is written as "m dot", which is not easy to insert into text here - in comes out as .

Sorry if this is a bit over your head, but read it slowly and it might sense - maybe phone a friend!

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justwhy

Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1463 on: January 02, 2016, 05:11:21 PM »
Seems notorious youtube troll rab downunder is trying to play the intellectual.

But let's look at how he thinks a rocket works again:

it pushes on ejected fuel.

Oh dear!

He somehow believes that an object can create a Reaction from its own Action...

Silly clown derfer!
As said here, it is physicly impossible for anything to create an action. This is prove that our ability to act must come from God, and skateboards are evil and satanic for using this for something that it wasn't intended for.

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1464 on: January 02, 2016, 11:18:36 PM »
Funny that nobody else seems to agree with you!

LOL!!!

Is that really the best you can do?

I need to warn people about Papa Legba

Why?

he is upsetting voodoo spirits.

No; you are.

Good luck with that!

It seems that  you misunderstand the concept of mass flow.

You 'misunderstand' everything.

That is your nature.

Toodle-pip, Losers!

I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1465 on: January 03, 2016, 10:17:21 AM »
It seems that  you misunderstand the concept of mass flow.

You 'misunderstand' everything.

That is your nature.

Toodle-pip, Losers!
Then help me to understand.  Please explain mass flow and why Newton's second law and conservation of momentum shouldn't apply.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1466 on: January 03, 2016, 10:23:05 AM »
Then help me to understand.

I've done nothing but for seventy-four pages.

Stop wasting my time.
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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justwhy

Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1467 on: January 03, 2016, 01:55:57 PM »
A CHALLENGER APPEARS!!!

Homework time again, shpayze-tard sock-puppets...

The combustion chamber of a rocket is open to the near-infinite vacuum of space.

Therefore, no gas can even be meaningfully said to exist within it, let alone combust.

Any gas introduced therein when the pressurised fuel tank leading to the combustion chamber is opened will simply expand freely into the enormous, zero-pressure vacuum, following the path of least resistance & doing no work whatsoever.

This will continue for as long as the fuel tank & chamber are open to the vacuum, until both exterior & interior pressures are equalised at zero.
Even if this did happen, the rocket would still move.
Since the gas leaving the rocket is moving, it must have momentum, conservation of momentum means that the rocket must gain momentum in the opposite direction.

Quote
Plus this:

You all claim that the recoil of a gun is a valid analogy for how a rocket works in a vacuum.

Here is why it is not:

With a gun you have object A, the mass of the gun; the expanding propellant, P, the gunpowder, sited between them; and object B, the mass of the bullet.

But with a rocket you ONLY have object A, the mass of the rocket,  & the expanding propellant, P, the fuel.

No object B, see?
The gas leaving the rocket has mass, it's object B.

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Papa Legba

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Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1468 on: January 03, 2016, 01:59:55 PM »
it's object B.

LOL!!!

Didn't take long to find out whose butthurt sock-puppet YOU are, did it, socky-boy!

Lonely little fella, ain't you?
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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justwhy

Re: People on skateboards.
« Reply #1469 on: January 03, 2016, 02:01:06 PM »
Are you saying gasses don't have mass?