Learn about God's Earth

Many people have complained that the debates that begin after I answer a question posed by them often prove derailing or overwhelming. I will not apologize for offering God's answer to their question, nor will I for the actions of others. I answer the questions I am posed.

In future however, if you wish to ask about or criticize some aspect of what I have stated in another thread, about God's view of the shape of the Earth, please do so here. I will respond if you post elsewhere, but this is for the benefit of the posters of the threads.

Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD

Hypocrites and liars are welcome, as they should be, but I will not waste time on repeating myself.

I dont understand what the debate is about, and what this have got to do with flat earth. Can you please elaborate?

Thank you for starting this thread.

Now, please state what your belief is concerning Flat Earth, Sun, Moon, planets and stars so people can discuss it HERE instead of in every other post.

I dont understand what the debate is about, and what this have got to do with flat earth. Can you please elaborate?

People, such as you and Jadyyn, dislike the religious debates that arise when I speak of my model. This thread is a place to discuss anything relating to it: I clearly believe the world is flat, and this is the topic of the thread.
I will continue to answer questions when posed, but if you don't want religious discussion to overtake your thread, ask here.

Thank you for starting this thread.

Now, please state what your belief is concerning Flat Earth, Sun, Moon, planets and stars so people can discuss it HERE instead of in every other post.

A summation is below.

I believe God's word as revealed in the Bible, and say that all who pray with an open mind and an open heart may verify this for themselves, for He will send His Holy Spirit to you and confirm it. I believe God is honest, and the Bible is an accurate depiction.

I believe the Earth is flat, as stated explicitly in Isaiah 40:22, and as implied in Matthew 4:8 and Daniel 4:11, which reference all the world being visible from just one point. I believe Creation as stated in Genesis, and that the world is six thousand years old, approximately, due to Genesis referring to literal days (made clear by referencing the day/night cycle) and the genealogy of Jesus back to Adam, as given in Luke 3:23-38.

I believe the Sun is God's light, as defined in Genesis 1:3-5, where the light that governs the day exists before anything save God's light does. I believe the greater and lesser lights referred to in Genesis 1:16 simply formalized (in God's non-linear fashion, made clear in the relationship between the first two chapters) that there was more light (the Sun) during day, and less (the stars) during the night.

I believe the moon is the Star of Bethlehem: a celestial object luminous, whose appearance 2000 years ago was immediately notable, and as the only celestial object whose motion is obvious and may be followed.

Day is when God shines over us: night is His test for us, where He looks away. Christ provides us more light now, but not always.

The stars are angels: in Revelation 12:4, one third of them are struck to Earth, which only makes sense if they are not gas or natural objects. Instead, they are the servants of God: or rather, the fallen servants of God. Fallen angels, or demons, who seek to deceive man with false signs. Following the stars, such as with astrology, is blasphemy, as stated in Isaiah 47:12-14. Beyond this, demons also exist on Earth, to possess and deceive man, and draw us away from God: both with deception, and claimed discoveries that prove Genesis is not true, or that the world is not flat, as God tells us.
Lucifer is well-known as Sirius, the Morning Star.

The planets are the Archangels. There are seven bright shiners, and seven archangels: they were given blasphemous Pagan names by those loyal to demons. 'Mercury' is Raguel, the friend of God. 'Venus' is Ramiel, who once fell but was redeemed at the Atonement. 'Mars' is Sariel, 'Jupiter' is Gabriel the greatest who is 'set over all the powers'. 'Saturn' is Michael, the rings being the Holy Prepuce which ascended to shield him for when he will lead the angels into battle. 'Uranus' is Uriel, and 'Neptune' is Raphael.
There are other angels in the heavens, but the Archangels are the most notable.

Quote from: Kogelblitz on September 29, 2015, 11:15:33 AM

I dont understand what the debate is about, and what this have got to do with flat earth. Can you please elaborate?

People, such as you and Jadyyn, dislike the religious debates that arise when I speak of my model. This thread is a place to discuss anything relating to it: I clearly believe the world is flat, and this is the topic of the thread.
I will continue to answer questions when posed, but if you don't want religious discussion to overtake your thread, ask here.

Allright! Let me ask you this. If you have to believe in god to go to heaven, what happened to the billions of people who lived out their lives before religion was invented?

I believe the moon is the Star of Bethlehem: a celestial object luminous, whose appearance 2000 years ago was immediately notable, and as the only celestial object whose motion is obvious and may be followed.

Can you elaborate on this one a bit more?  You didn't quote scripture on this one.  Are you saying the moon didn't exist before 2000 years ago?  Many other cultures and religions make reference to moon prior to the birth of Jesus.  Aristotle among others make reference to the moon.  The Old Testament even references the moon.  It is clear that the moon existed prior to the birth of Jesus.

I believe the Earth is flat, as stated explicitly in Isaiah 40:22, and as implied in Matthew 4:8 and Daniel 4:11, which reference all the world being visible from just one point. I believe Creation as stated in Genesis, and that the world is six thousand years old, approximately, due to Genesis referring to literal days (made clear by referencing the day/night cycle) and the genealogy of Jesus back to Adam, as given in Luke 3:23-38.

When the Book of Isaiah was written, the common belief was the Earth was flat.  It isn't surprising that it makes a reference in that regard.  Where is the point where all the world is visible?  I have been on plenty of mountains and certainly can't see that far even with binoculars.

Under the "Copernicus and the Heliocentric theory is the biggest lie ever told" topic you wrote:

God has written in his word clearly that the world is flat. My signature gives an explicit example, and we may also observe:

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them

Daniel 4:11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth

If all the world may be seen from one point, then this means the Earth is flat.

First,
1) Since you can not view the entire earth from the highest mountain (Everest), how can he see all the kingdoms of the world?
2) How can you show the "glory" of something?

Second,
In Context (ooo scary word) Daniel 4:10-12 >> "10 These are the visions I saw while lying in bed: I looked, and there before me stood a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous. 11 The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth. 12 Its leaves were beautiful, its fruit abundant, and on it was food for all. Under it the wild animals found shelter, and the birds lived in its branches; from it every creature was fed."
and Daniel 4:20-22 >> "20 The tree you saw, which grew large and strong, with its top touching the sky, visible to the whole earth, 21 with beautiful leaves and abundant fruit, providing food for all, giving shelter to the wild animals, and having nesting places in its branches for the birds— 22 Your Majesty, you are that tree! You have become great and strong; your greatness has grown until it reaches the sky, and your dominion extends to distant parts of the earth."

3) The tree that is referred to was in a dream - not real.
4) Obviously, if you read Dan 4:20-22, you would know this represented Nebuchadnezzar.  His head did not reach the top of the sky and his dominion didn't extend all over the planet.  These were all FIGURATIVE and IMAGES in a DREAM.
5) Can you differentiate between a dream and reality? Is this part of your proof of a Flat Earth? Apparently so per your quote above.

Third,
You believe the Moon was created some 2000 years ago as "The Star of Bethlehem".

• Gen 37:9-10 >> "9 Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.” 10 When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?”" I pointed out that Joseph, son of Jacob, talked about the moon. It is quite obvious that Jacob fully understood what the sun, moon and eleven stars (NOT angels) meant.
  
• Nu 10:10 >> "10 Also at your times of rejoicing—your appointed festivals and New Moon feasts—you are to sound the trumpets over your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, and they will be a memorial for you before your God. I am the Lord your God." and
  Nu 28:14-15 >> "14 With each bull there is to be a drink offering of half a hin of wine; with the ram, a third of a hin; and with each lamb, a quarter of a hin. This is the monthly burnt offering to be made at each new moon during the year. 15 Besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering, one male goat is to be presented to the Lord as a sin offering." These talk about New Moon festivals during the time of Moses, the Isrealites were commanded MONTHLY to do this during a New Moon - how can they have those without a moon and know what a month was?
  
• Deu 4:19-20 >> "And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. 20 But as for you, the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are." - Again, what is Moses telling the Israelites coming out of Egypt not to do with a moon that does not exist?
  
• Jos 10:12-13 >> "12 On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel:
  
  “Sun, stand still over Gibeon,
      and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”
  13 So the sun stood still,
      and the moon stopped,
      till the nation avenged itself on its enemies,
  as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
  
  The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day."  -- For Joshua, the sun stood still but moon didn't stop because it did not exist - that part was a lie?
  
• 2 Ki 23:4-5 "4 The king ordered Hilkiah the high priest, the priests next in rank and the doorkeepers to remove from the temple of the Lord all the articles made for Baal and Asherah and all the starry hosts. He burned them outside Jerusalem in the fields of the Kidron Valley and took the ashes to Bethel. 5 He did away with the idolatrous priests appointed by the kings of Judah to burn incense on the high places of the towns of Judah and on those around Jerusalem—those who burned incense to Baal, to the sun and moon, to the constellations and to all the starry hosts." - So the sun, constellations and starry hosts were real but moon wasn't?
  
• There are LOTS of other passages, before the time of Jesus, that CLEARLY point to a real Moon existing way before Jesus.
  

As I clearly pointed out, you CAN NOT follow anything in the heavens (sun, moon, planets or stars) anywhere. Go.. try it.. really. At Bethlehem's latitude, the sky spins at about 700 mph.  Nobody is following anything in it anywhere.

"The Star of Bethlehem" had to be a low atmospheric phenomena - a one-off event/miracle.

P.S. Now you can see why I didn't want to get into this stuff with you on other posts. There is A LOT of material.

Quote from: Testify on September 29, 2015, 11:48:29 AM

Quote from: Kogelblitz on September 29, 2015, 11:15:33 AM

I dont understand what the debate is about, and what this have got to do with flat earth. Can you please elaborate?

People, such as you and Jadyyn, dislike the religious debates that arise when I speak of my model. This thread is a place to discuss anything relating to it: I clearly believe the world is flat, and this is the topic of the thread.
I will continue to answer questions when posed, but if you don't want religious discussion to overtake your thread, ask here.

Allright! Let me ask you this. If you have to believe in god to go to heaven, what happened to the billions of people who lived out their lives before religion was invented?

You do not have to believe in God, you have to follow Him.
God revealed Himself to the first humans, and they taught their descendants. There was no 'before religion was invented.' There were only peoples who were deceived by demons and who follwoed false idols and Gods, such as the golden calf.
All are given a final chance to follow God, when they meet Him. It is far easier when you follow Him in life, however, to accept all He says at that moment. It is all or nothing, then.

Quote from: Testify on September 29, 2015, 12:02:32 PM

I believe the moon is the Star of Bethlehem: a celestial object luminous, whose appearance 2000 years ago was immediately notable, and as the only celestial object whose motion is obvious and may be followed.

Can you elaborate on this one a bit more?  You didn't quote scripture on this one.  Are you saying the moon didn't exist before 2000 years ago?  Many other cultures and religions make reference to moon prior to the birth of Jesus.  Aristotle among others make reference to the moon.  The Old Testament even references the moon.  It is clear that the moon existed prior to the birth of Jesus.

What is references is most likely a star, or a comet. There would be no word for moon, before the moon existed: we make an assumption based upon the language at the time.
I didn't quote scripture because that story is well known.

Matthew 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Matthew 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

Shines, rises in the East, and moves visibly. It can only be one thing.

Quote from: Testify on September 29, 2015, 12:02:32 PM

I believe the Earth is flat, as stated explicitly in Isaiah 40:22, and as implied in Matthew 4:8 and Daniel 4:11, which reference all the world being visible from just one point. I believe Creation as stated in Genesis, and that the world is six thousand years old, approximately, due to Genesis referring to literal days (made clear by referencing the day/night cycle) and the genealogy of Jesus back to Adam, as given in Luke 3:23-38.

When the Book of Isaiah was written, the common belief was the Earth was flat.  It isn't surprising that it makes a reference in that regard.  Where is the point where all the world is visible?  I have been on plenty of mountains and certainly can't see that far even with binoculars.

The Book is God's word. He would not make a mistake, were it not true.
Read the passages to hear of the points. They are not accessible now, but neither are many places. I will trust God's word.

Quote from: TexasH on September 29, 2015, 02:22:59 PM

Quote from: Testify on September 29, 2015, 12:02:32 PM

I believe the moon is the Star of Bethlehem: a celestial object luminous, whose appearance 2000 years ago was immediately notable, and as the only celestial object whose motion is obvious and may be followed.

Can you elaborate on this one a bit more?  You didn't quote scripture on this one.  Are you saying the moon didn't exist before 2000 years ago?  Many other cultures and religions make reference to moon prior to the birth of Jesus.  Aristotle among others make reference to the moon.  The Old Testament even references the moon.  It is clear that the moon existed prior to the birth of Jesus.

What is references is most likely a star, or a comet. There would be no word for moon, before the moon existed: we make an assumption based upon the language at the time.
I didn't quote scripture because that story is well known.

Matthew 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Matthew 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

Shines, rises in the East, and moves visibly. It can only be one thing.

The OT clearly refers to the moon on multiple occasions.  Are you saying this is in error.  There is nothing in the Bible that supports your position.  Why should I accept your word over God's?

1) Since you can not view the entire earth from the highest mountain (Everest), how can he see all the kingdoms of the world?
2) How can you show the "glory" of something?

The mountain referred to would clearly be taller. Christ was in the middle of the desert, the mountain would have been constructed for the purpose of testing him. Glory may be observed simply by seeing the splendour of the architecture and design.

3) The tree that is referred to was in a dream - not real.
4) Obviously, if you read Dan 4:20-22, you would know this represented Nebuchadnezzar.  His head did not reach the top of the sky and his dominion didn't extend all over the planet.  These were all FIGURATIVE and IMAGES in a DREAM.
5) Can you differentiate between a dream and reality? Is this part of your proof of a Flat Earth? Apparently so per your quote above.

Insults aside, there is a difference between a dream and a God-sent vision.

You believe the Moon was created some 2000 years ago as "The Star of Bethlehem".

I have answered those objections previously in this thread.
Further, your first example refers to a dream rendering you a hypocrite: and one clearly intended to symbolize many things. It includes the Sun and eleven stars bowing: this seems a strong indication that they are understood as entities, such as angels and God.

Quote from: Testify on September 29, 2015, 04:38:56 PM

Quote from: TexasH on September 29, 2015, 02:22:59 PM

Quote from: Testify on September 29, 2015, 12:02:32 PM

I believe the moon is the Star of Bethlehem: a celestial object luminous, whose appearance 2000 years ago was immediately notable, and as the only celestial object whose motion is obvious and may be followed.

Can you elaborate on this one a bit more?  You didn't quote scripture on this one.  Are you saying the moon didn't exist before 2000 years ago?  Many other cultures and religions make reference to moon prior to the birth of Jesus.  Aristotle among others make reference to the moon.  The Old Testament even references the moon.  It is clear that the moon existed prior to the birth of Jesus.

What is referenced is most likely a star, or a comet. There would be no word for moon, before the moon existed: we make an assumption based upon the language at the time.
I didn't quote scripture because that story is well known.

Matthew 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Matthew 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

Shines, rises in the East, and moves visibly. It can only be one thing.

The OT clearly refers to the moon on multiple occasions.  Are you saying this is in error.  There is nothing in the Bible that supports your position.  Why should I accept your word over God's?

"What is referenced is most likely a star, or a comet. There would be no word for moon, before the moon existed: we make an assumption based upon the language at the time."
I answered your objection. Do not repeat it.

What supports my position is the Star of Bethlehem, as I explained. I ask you to accept God's word: this is God's word.

Quote from: TexasH on September 29, 2015, 02:29:13 PM

Quote from: Testify on September 29, 2015, 12:02:32 PM

I believe the Earth is flat, as stated explicitly in Isaiah 40:22, and as implied in Matthew 4:8 and Daniel 4:11, which reference all the world being visible from just one point. I believe Creation as stated in Genesis, and that the world is six thousand years old, approximately, due to Genesis referring to literal days (made clear by referencing the day/night cycle) and the genealogy of Jesus back to Adam, as given in Luke 3:23-38.

When the Book of Isaiah was written, the common belief was the Earth was flat.  It isn't surprising that it makes a reference in that regard.  Where is the point where all the world is visible?  I have been on plenty of mountains and certainly can't see that far even with binoculars.

The Book is God's word. He would not make a mistake, were it not true.
Read the passages to hear of the points. They are not accessible now, but neither are many places. I will trust God's word.

Except when he made a mistake about the moon in the OT.

Quote from: Testify on September 29, 2015, 04:40:06 PM

Quote from: TexasH on September 29, 2015, 02:29:13 PM

Quote from: Testify on September 29, 2015, 12:02:32 PM

I believe the Earth is flat, as stated explicitly in Isaiah 40:22, and as implied in Matthew 4:8 and Daniel 4:11, which reference all the world being visible from just one point. I believe Creation as stated in Genesis, and that the world is six thousand years old, approximately, due to Genesis referring to literal days (made clear by referencing the day/night cycle) and the genealogy of Jesus back to Adam, as given in Luke 3:23-38.

When the Book of Isaiah was written, the common belief was the Earth was flat.  It isn't surprising that it makes a reference in that regard.  Where is the point where all the world is visible?  I have been on plenty of mountains and certainly can't see that far even with binoculars.

The Book is God's word. He would not make a mistake, were it not true.
Read the passages to hear of the points. They are not accessible now, but neither are many places. I will trust God's word.

Except when he made a mistake about the moon in the OT.

I said I would not repeat myself. if you have nothing to add, do not waste time.

Quote from: TexasH on September 29, 2015, 04:42:12 PM

Quote from: Testify on September 29, 2015, 04:38:56 PM

Quote from: TexasH on September 29, 2015, 02:22:59 PM

Quote from: Testify on September 29, 2015, 12:02:32 PM

I believe the moon is the Star of Bethlehem: a celestial object luminous, whose appearance 2000 years ago was immediately notable, and as the only celestial object whose motion is obvious and may be followed.

Can you elaborate on this one a bit more?  You didn't quote scripture on this one.  Are you saying the moon didn't exist before 2000 years ago?  Many other cultures and religions make reference to moon prior to the birth of Jesus.  Aristotle among others make reference to the moon.  The Old Testament even references the moon.  It is clear that the moon existed prior to the birth of Jesus.

What is referenced is most likely a star, or a comet. There would be no word for moon, before the moon existed: we make an assumption based upon the language at the time.
I didn't quote scripture because that story is well known.

Matthew 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Matthew 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

Shines, rises in the East, and moves visibly. It can only be one thing.

The OT clearly refers to the moon on multiple occasions.  Are you saying this is in error.  There is nothing in the Bible that supports your position.  Why should I accept your word over God's?

"What is referenced is most likely a star, or a comet. There would be no word for moon, before the moon existed: we make an assumption based upon the language at the time."
I answered your objection. Do not repeat it.

What supports my position is the Star of Bethlehem, as I explained. I ask you to accept God's word: this is God's word.

No, these are your words.  Are you stating that you are God?  God's word states he created the Moon in Genesis.  I doubt God would lie or deceive me in thinking he created the Moon all those years ago.

No, these are your words.  Are you stating that you are God?  God's word states he created the Moon in Genesis.  I doubt God would lie or deceive me in thinking he created the Moon all those years ago.

Those are not my words. Those are your words. I have explained why you are mistaken, including in my statement of belief.

Proverbs 15:32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.

Quote from: TexasH on September 29, 2015, 04:50:40 PM

No, these are your words.  Are you stating that you are God?  God's word states he created the Moon in Genesis.  I doubt God would lie or deceive me in thinking he created the Moon all those years ago.

Those are not my words. Those are your words. I have explained why you are mistaken, including in my statement of belief.

Proverbs 15:32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.

What?  Your interpretation of what the Bible says are your words, not God's.  No where in the Bible does it state that the Star of Bethlehem is the Moon.  God states very clearly that He created the Moon in Genesis.  Why don't you believe His words in this instance?

Quote from: Testify on September 29, 2015, 04:52:12 PM

Quote from: TexasH on September 29, 2015, 04:50:40 PM

No, these are your words.  Are you stating that you are God?  God's word states he created the Moon in Genesis.  I doubt God would lie or deceive me in thinking he created the Moon all those years ago.

Those are not my words. Those are your words. I have explained why you are mistaken, including in my statement of belief.

Proverbs 15:32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.

What?  Your interpretation of what the Bible says are your words, not God's.  No where in the Bible does it state that the Star of Bethlehem is the Moon.  God states very clearly that He created the Moon in Genesis.  Why don't you believe His words in this instance?

I quote only God's word. I explained Genesis in my statement of belief. It also says He created the Sun after day and night were defined. He is formalizing the amount of light in day and night, no more.
I believe God's word: you merely despise correction.

I quote only God's word.

Then quote God where He says the moon is the Star of Bethlehem.

I explained Genesis in my statement of belief. It also says He created the Sun after day and night were defined. He is formalizing the amount of light in day and night, no more.

I think you may have reading comprehension problems:

Genesis 1:16:18
"God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good."

The two greatest lights in our sky are the sun and moon.  If this verse is not referring to the moon, what is it referring to?  The greater light = sun; the lesser light = moon.[/quote]

I believe God's word: you merely despise correction.

The pot is meeting the kettle here...

However, I don't recall making a statement that required correction.  The OT referencing the moon is irrefutable.

You seem to be fond of the Book of Isaiah. 

Isaiah 60:19-20
""No longer will you have the sun for light by day, Nor for brightness will the moon give you light; But you will have the LORD for an everlasting light, And your God for your glory. "Your sun will no longer set, Nor will your moon wane; For you will have the LORD for an everlasting light, And the days of your mourning will be over."

Explain this verse to me then.  Not only does it refer to the moon, it refers to the phases of the moon.  This was written 700-800 years before Christ. 

I could go on and cite just about every ancient religion that had a god devoted to the moon, but I figured it more relevant that Abraham's God referred to the moon.

The mountain referred to would clearly be taller. Christ was in the middle of the desert, the mountain would have been constructed for the purpose of testing him. Glory may be observed simply by seeing the splendour of the architecture and design.

So Satan constructed a mountain and placed Jesus on it? I thought only God can create? Can you prove anywhere that Satan can create anything? What happened to this mountain? Did it just poof into and then out of existence? And where is your proof of this? Keep in mind this is IMPORTANT because it is one of the reasons for your belief in the Flat Earth model.

Insults aside, there is a difference between a dream and a God-sent vision.

The bible specifically states it is a dream and it refers to Nebuchadnezzar a few passages later.  It is NOT a real tree but explicitly symbolic and your Flat Earth concept should not be based on it.

have answered those objections previously in this thread.
Further, your first example refers to a dream rendering you a hypocrite: and one clearly intended to symbolize many things. It includes the Sun and eleven stars bowing: this seems a strong indication that they are understood as entities, such as angels and God.

Then why does Jacob apply this dream to himself, his wife and their 11 other sons? Where exactly does he understand them to be angels and God? - I must have missed that.

I posted just a few of the passages in the Bible that EXPLICITLY and plainly show the moon was known to people way before Jesus (there are non-Biblical sources as well). You have presented no passages that clearly show in any way that the Moon was "The Star of Bethlehem".  You have NOT answered these objections anywhere in this thread as it is the first time I wrote these passages.  Furthermore, it is very troubling that you are obviously ignoring many places in the Bible that clearly and plainly talk about the moon for your bizarre theory that the moon is "The Star of Bethlehem".   You appear to have an agenda and dismiss LOTS of clear and plain text to prove it - very disturbing. If you can't believe simple and plain text, then your theories (unusual as well) of more difficult passages (e.g. first chapters in Genesis) are highly suspect.

Furthermore, you dismiss science and logic. As I have pointed out, you can not follow or stand underneath anything in the heavens. This can be tested.  But you keep on BSing about the "The Star of Bethlehem" being the moon and people following it. Like I said - Get out there and try it!!!

The planets are the Archangels. There are seven bright shiners, and seven archangels: they were given blasphemous Pagan names by those loyal to demons. 'Mercury' is Raguel, the friend of God. 'Venus' is Ramiel, who once fell but was redeemed at the Atonement. 'Mars' is Sariel, 'Jupiter' is Gabriel the greatest who is 'set over all the powers'. 'Saturn' is Michael, the rings being the Holy Prepuce which ascended to shield him for when he will lead the angels into battle. 'Uranus' is Uriel, and 'Neptune' is Raphael.
There are other angels in the heavens, but the Archangels are the most notable.

Most of these archangels are NOT from regular Bibles (KJV, NIV, NASB, etc.) but from the apocryphal Book of Enoch (and the planets are not mentioned at all - you are making that up).  Since most people reading your stuff have not actually read the Bible all the way through, they would not know you are quoting extra-Biblical sources that have not been added to normal (canonical) Bibles because of their dubious natures.  This is a deception on your part.  Yes, God does not lie but you deceive the readers who actually believe you are quoting the Bible.  You are quite right, demons deceive and should not be listened to.

You can BS other people, but not me... sorry

I was wondering where you got the names for your archangels because of the 7, only 3 are named in the bible.  And if they get planets to represent them in the sky, what about all the seraphim and cherabim who are far and away more powerful and much higher in rank than the puny archangels?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but you can't see Neptune, Uranus or Pluto with the naked eye.  What qualifies them as bright shiners?

And the bible never ever states the moon is the star of Bethlehem.  It actually makes very specific references to it as the moon, it's own and separate entity in the sky.

I'm the first to say I believe in God.  Me and the almighty chit chat on a regular basis.  Mostly one sided talks I admit, but he's a great listener.  But I believe the greatest gift he's ever given humanity is free will, and through our free will, rationality.  He's given us the option to think our own thoughts and make our own decisions based on what we see.  I believe abandoning that rationality to constantly follow, without question, the words written by men who are imperfect is a great sin.  The bible is the inspired word of God, not a history text book.  It was written to help people understand themselves, their soul, and what comes after.  It was not written to be an accurate account of history.

I was wondering where you got the names for your archangels because of the 7, only 3 are named in the bible.  And if they get planets to represent them in the sky, what about all the seraphim and cherabim who are far and away more powerful and much higher in rank than the puny archangels?

There is more to the Bible than is commonly thought. The Book of Enoch, for example, is clearly genuine, for:

Enoch 2:1 Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him.

Jude 1:14-15 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Enoch is accepted as a prophet by canonical works of the Bible, so it too must be genuine.

The planets do not represent the archangels, they are the archangels. Other angels do exist, but shine far less and are less visible. The few beings higher than the archangels reside primarily in Heaven alone, and would not be visible.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but you can't see Neptune, Uranus or Pluto with the naked eye.  What qualifies them as bright shiners?

I did not mention Pluto. Neptune and Uranus are celestial objects whose shine may be seen from Earth, and are not claimed stars: the fact they are not visible with a naked eye, and yet they bring the number of planets to seven, as there are archangels, is further evidence.

And the bible never ever states the moon is the star of Bethlehem.  It actually makes very specific references to it as the moon, it's own and separate entity in the sky.

This has been explained several times already. Translation by those who expect to find a moon, and the fact the moon is the only celestial object which fills the necessary traits of the Star of Bethlehem, make it clear.

But I believe the greatest gift he's ever given humanity is free will, and through our free will, rationality.  He's given us the option to think our own thoughts and make our own decisions based on what we see.  I believe abandoning that rationality to constantly follow, without question, the words written by men who are imperfect is a great sin.  The bible is the inspired word of God, not a history text book.  It was written to help people understand themselves, their soul, and what comes after.  It was not written to be an accurate account of history.

God does not lie: it is that simple. The book He gives is is not intended to deceive. The capability of logic He gave us must be used to find certain answers, but all is within.

So Satan constructed a mountain and placed Jesus on it? I thought only God can create? Can you prove anywhere that Satan can create anything? What happened to this mountain? Did it just poof into and then out of existence? And where is your proof of this? Keep in mind this is IMPORTANT because it is one of the reasons for your belief in the Flat Earth model.

Do you believe the tests were against God's will? Satan is explicitly a servant of God, and the Devil rules Hell, as God tasked Him. They disagree, more and more, but they do as He commands. Compare, for example, Job.
The mountain exist exclusively for the test. The evidence is in the book. No such mountain exists now, but it did then: unless you now claim God lies.

Then why does Jacob apply this dream to himself, his wife and their 11 other sons? Where exactly does he understand them to be angels and God? - I must have missed that.

How might stars bow, were they not people?

I posted just a few of the passages in the Bible that EXPLICITLY and plainly show the moon was known to people way before Jesus (there are non-Biblical sources as well). You have presented no passages that clearly show in any way that the Moon was "The Star of Bethlehem".

This is an outright lie. I have explained mistranslations and the role of expectation, demons rewrote many external sources, and I have shown very clearly that the moon is the only candidate to be the Star of Bethelehem.

Most of these archangels are NOT from regular Bibles (KJV, NIV, NASB, etc.) but from the apocryphal Book of Enoch (and the planets are not mentioned at all - you are making that up).

I have explained how we may determine that they are the planets. Enoch is referred to as a prophet in Jude (reference in above post): do you believe the Bible contains lies, now? Simply because it was not bound with other texts does not prevent it being genuine.
If you were as much of an expert on the Bible as you claim, you would know this.

Then quote God where He says the moon is the Star of Bethlehem.

He gives the properties of the Star of Bethlehem, and the moon is the only thing which matches them. This has been explained. If someone were to tell you that they were hit by a metal object with four wheels, windows, four seats, and someone driving it with the aid of another wheel and pedals, would you conclude they spoke of a car, or insist the fact they did not use the word 'car' renders it inconclusive?

The two greatest lights in our sky are the sun and moon.  If this verse is not referring to the moon, what is it referring to?  The greater light = sun; the lesser light = moon.

Amounts of light. this too, I explained. Once more I remind you that the Sun already exists, as day and night are defined as soon as Genesis 1:5.

However, I don't recall making a statement that required correction.  The OT referencing the moon is irrefutable.

The fact you believe that is why you despose correction.

Explain this verse to me then.  Not only does it refer to the moon, it refers to the phases of the moon.  This was written 700-800 years before Christ. 

You assume it means the moon, because you cannot imagine a world without the moon. It refers to the illumination at night, caused by the stars, as Genesis is. This 'night light' term would clearly be repurposed for the moon, when the object appeared. Stars are not fixed: they will cycle in phases also.
The Bible is clear, but if you ignore the context of the time, you are willfully ignorant.

He gives the properties of the Star of Bethlehem, and the moon is the only thing which matches them. This has been explained. If someone were to tell you that they were hit by a metal object with four wheels, windows, four seats, and someone driving it with the aid of another wheel and pedals, would you conclude they spoke of a car, or insist the fact they did not use the word 'car' renders it inconclusive?

The moon doesn't match the description either.  It actually matches the description just as well as anything else in the night sky.  Stars move from east to west as well.  The moon also never passes over Bethlehem and it certainly doesn't stop there.  Also, people 2000 years ago wouldn't have confused it for a star either as it looks nothing like a star.  If it just came in to be out of nowhere, I would imagine they would call it a dim sun.  No other star in the sky is anywhere close to the moon in apparent size.

Amounts of light. this too, I explained. Once more I remind you that the Sun already exists, as day and night are defined as soon as Genesis 1:5.

Genesis 1:5 makes no reference to the sun.  The verse simply defines day and night.

The fact you believe that is why you despose correction.

Ah, so we get to pick and choose which verses are correct or not and since I picked one that you disagree with, I am wrong.  Good to know.

You assume it means the moon, because you cannot imagine a world without the moon. It refers to the illumination at night, caused by the stars, as Genesis is. This 'night light' term would clearly be repurposed for the moon, when the object appeared. Stars are not fixed: they will cycle in phases also.

I assume it means moon, because it actually says moon.  It doesn't say light in the night sky.  It actually says moon.

The Bible is clear, but if you ignore the context of the time, you are willfully ignorant.

Ah, we made it at last.  I am glad I caught you in a direct contradiction.  The Bible states the Earth is a circle as stated in your signature, but the context at the time was the Earth was flat.  I am glad I am not willfully ignorant and recognize this reference is due to the context of the time.

The moon doesn't match the description either.  It actually matches the description just as well as anything else in the night sky.  Stars move from east to west as well.  The moon also never passes over Bethlehem and it certainly doesn't stop there.  Also, people 2000 years ago wouldn't have confused it for a star either as it looks nothing like a star.  If it just came in to be out of nowhere, I would imagine they would call it a dim sun.  No other star in the sky is anywhere close to the moon in apparent size.

I did not say they confused it for a star. Context, once more: a shining object in the sky. Star was the best equivalent they had. At night, it is nothing like the Sun.
Stars do not move visibly, in a way that could be followed, and would not be immediately notable when a new one appears.

Genesis 1:5 makes no reference to the sun.  The verse simply defines day and night.

How do you believe day and night are defined if there was no Sun?

Ah, so we get to pick and choose which verses are correct or not and since I picked one that you disagree with, I am wrong.  Good to know.

A further lie. You disagree with me, and refuse to acknowledge my words. One with a hardened heart may not be taught.

I assume it means moon, because it actually says moon.  It doesn't say light in the night sky.  It actually says moon.

If the moon did not exist, there would be no word for moon. Once again, context is very important. Moon is what it means now.

Ah, we made it at last.  I am glad I caught you in a direct contradiction.  The Bible states the Earth is a circle as stated in your signature, but the context at the time was the Earth was flat.  I am glad I am not willfully ignorant and recognize this reference is due to the context of the time.

How is this a contradiction? You are simply lying. Context relating to the meaning and translation of words is not the same as a commonly held belief at the time. Why would God be influenced by beliefs at the time? God would tell the truth and the truth alone.
This is not a contradiction, this is you being foolish in your rejection of God's word.

Jeremiah 8:9 The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

I did not say they confused it for a star. Context, once more: a shining object in the sky. Star was the best equivalent they had. At night, it is nothing like the Sun.
Stars do not move visibly, in a way that could be followed, and would not be immediately notable when a new one appears.

It is so radically different, a new word seems appropriate.  Nevermind the fact that languages did have a word for moon before then.  Do a little research on it.

How do you believe day and night are defined if there was no Sun?

Light and dark?

A further lie. You disagree with me, and refuse to acknowledge my words. One with a hardened heart may not be taught.

You are clearly picking and choosing which verses to take literal and which to interpret based on your own beliefs.  You can hand wave all you want.

If the moon did not exist, there would be no word for moon. Once again, context is very important. Moon is what it means now.

When do you think the Book of Isaiah was written?

How is this a contradiction? You are simply lying. Context relating to the meaning and translation of words is not the same as a commonly held belief at the time. Why would God be influenced by beliefs at the time? God would tell the truth and the truth alone.
This is not a contradiction, this is you being foolish in your rejection of God's word.

Jeremiah 8:9 The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

I am not the one rejecting his word, you have.  God wrote moon, you are rejecting it.