The sun's path throughout the day during an equinox

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on August 31, 2015, 10:51:06 AM

Quote from: sokarul on August 31, 2015, 10:45:03 AM

Quote from: jroa on August 31, 2015, 02:20:23 AM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on August 31, 2015, 02:04:44 AM

Quote from: jroa on August 30, 2015, 08:48:28 AM

Are you saying that diffraction does not occur with light?  Also, you did not even address  Charming Anarchist's points.  How do light rays diverge through a cloud when it should be parallel?

What? When did I say that diffraction does not occur? It's unrelated though.

So, are you still insisting on that stupid converging rays thing? What's next, asking why roads or railways appear to converge? I tell you what: one day, observe where the rays land, preferably at noon, because otherwise they're going to land too far. When they're coming through the clouds, they appear like they are converging, right? Well, go to the locations that they land (which are most likely 1km apart or even less, depending on what time it is) and place sticks and photograph their shadows. The best way to do it would be with a friend, so that you can photograph them simultaneously. You will notice that the shadows look precisely the same. If the rays weren't parallel, and had the extreme angles that they appear to have, it would mean that places only 1km apart would have a huge difference in time and vastly different shadows.

Are we done with this yet? It's stupid. Get over it.

Diffraction is light changing direction, dum-dum.  And, train tracks appear to converge when your line of sight is approximately parallel to the tracks, not when your line of sight is perpendicular to the tracks, like it approximately is when watching rays of light shine through a cloud in the distance. 

That is an incomplete definition.  Diffraction requires an object, refraction requires a change in medium. Diffraction indeed has nothing to do with the topic. Refraction should have been used.

Please note this.

Don't bother. I've already tried to explain to him that diffraction has nothing to do with the discussion and that the only reason why sun rays appear to converge is because of perspective, but he didn't understand. I think he doesn't even know what diffraction is.

Yeah I saw that. I just like to point out every time he is wrong.

Yeah, I agree, it's quite entertaining to do so. If I didn't find it entertaining, I wouldn't be on this forum.

Diffraction is light changing direction.  You roundies say all the time that light always goes in a straight line, and when an FE'er tries to prove you wrong by simply pointing out diffraction, but misspells it, you jump on him like a pack of hyenas.  Perhaps you could try using your brain for a change?  Or, maybe you can't get that pack feeling out of you, so you have to strike at every little vein you can?  Jerks

Diffraction is light changing direction.  You roundies say all the time that light always goes in a straight line, and when an FE'er tries to prove you wrong by simply pointing out diffraction, but misspells it, you jump on him like a pack of hyenas.  Perhaps you could try using your brain for a change?  Or, maybe you can't get that pack feeling out of you, so you have to strike at every little vein you can?  Jerks

Where did any round earther claim that defraction doesn't exist?

Diffraction is light changing direction.  You roundies say all the time that light always goes in a straight line, and when an FE'er tries to prove you wrong by simply pointing out diffraction, but misspells it, you jump on him like a pack of hyenas.  Perhaps you could try using your brain for a change?  Or, maybe you can't get that pack feeling out of you, so you have to strike at every little vein you can?  Jerks

So I guess the whole cloud and crepuscular ray talk had nothing to do with anything, right?

And no, diffraction isn't a vague "light changing direction". It's light changing direction when it passes through a thin enough hole or slit, nobody denies it, and it is fully explained both by classical physics and quantum electrodynamics. I still don't understand what it has to do with anything.

Quote from: Soulblood on August 31, 2015, 04:28:57 AM

Quote from: jroa on August 31, 2015, 01:45:49 AM

Quote from: Master_Evar on August 31, 2015, 01:21:07 AM

Quote from: jroa on August 31, 2015, 12:47:17 AM

Quote from: Soulblood on August 31, 2015, 12:39:48 AM

Successfully diverted the threat from its original subject, where no flat earth believer dares to commit to a straight answer because obviously, all the people that live between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn are in on the conspiracy ... because all of them observe the sun going in a straight line, east to west, during a culmination.

The Tropic of Cancer, by the way, is the most northerly circle of latitude on the Earth at which the Sun appears directly overhead at its culmination. Its southern equivalent is the Tropic of Capricorn.

The areas between those two lines include territories of over 100 counties, including China, India, Indonesia, most African nations, the northern halves of Australia and South-America, Central-America and Mexico. Obviously ALL the people in those countries are part of the world wide conspiracy to promote a round earth, because once a year they can just step out on the street, look up and see that the sun is not behaving like flat earth believers claim it does.

You think all of the people you mentioned stare at the sun all day?  Lol there is some wrong with.

You think they never look up at the sun during their lives?

You think they stare at it for an entire day? 

All they have to do is look out at sunrise, noon and sunset on one specific day in the year to see that the sun traveled a straight line ... all a single person under all those hundreds of millions that live in the described area has to do to prove flat earth is - on that day - take a few pictures, maybe a video, showing that the sun traveled in a curve instead the straight line a round earth predicts, and put it out on any of a million internet outlets ... and flat earth would be proven.

Why has nobody ever done that.

Maybe there is a forum member living in those areas ... why has that person never done that?

Hundreds of millions of people see this and not a single whistle blower has ever stepped forward in hundreds of years?

Jeez, that's what I call a successful conspiracy.

Should it not be your burden of proof that anyone who not affiliated with the government has once stared at the sunrise while using a compass to check which direction it was rising on the exact day that it was supposed to be rising in the east and documented it with pictures or video or what ever else you went on about?  You act like I am supposed to do your legwork for you or just believe what you say, even though you have never done this yourself. 

It is well known and documented, that on the equator during the 2 equinoxes each year (March and September) the sun rises directly out of the east, climbs vertically in the sky until it is directly overhead at midday, and then descends vertically until it sets directly in the west. During the whole time that the sun is visible during the day, its path in the sky is an exact straight line - once again, this is well known and documented and has never been disputed.

But according to flat earth theory, the sun's path over the earth's surface describes a complete circle within a 24 hour period. But as we have seen with each equinox, the sun's path in the sky is a perfectly straight line from the time it becomes visible in the east, until it disappears exactly west in the evening.

The burden of proof is actually on flat earthers to provide contrary evidence to this established fact.

The next equinox is in approximately 3 weeks, on the 23rd of September, and will be an excellent opportunity for flat earthers to prove beyond all possible doubt that the sun's path in the sky during an equinox at the equator is curved or not. If it's a curved path, then this will absolutely destroy the round earth theory and prove beyond all doubt that the earth is flat.
The flat earth movement is now quite organised, with many members coming from scientific backgrounds. Would you expect these 'scientific' members to take this excellent opportunity to prove the flat earth theory beyond all doubt, and assign a group to travel to an equatorial region on the 23rd of September and conduct this earth shattering experiment?

If it is well documented and easy to prove, then perform the experiment or shut up and admit that you have no idea what you are talking about. 

If it is well documented and easy to prove, then perform the experiment or shut up and admit that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Why am I required to perform an experiment, when the observations of the result of this experiment have already been known for hundreds/thousands of years and are documented and verified already?

Surely, this experiment will be done by flat earthers on the 23rd of September, to actually counter the already well known and documented observations of the sun's exact straight line movement in the sky.

The burden of proof is on people such as yourself to counter what is already verified as fact. If any one needs to 'perform the experiment or shut up' then it is obviously YOU.

If it is well documented and easy to prove, then perform the experiment or shut up and admit that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The thing you don't seem to understand is that you are the minority that is trying to change what is conceived as facts. If you don't want to do the experiment, then we don't have to do the experiment and facts will not change. We don't need to do the experiment because to us it won't make a difference if we got the result we believe we would get. But if you did the experiment and got the results you were imagining then that would be in favor for you. This is why the burden of proof is on you. If you ignore it then facts will keep being facts, and round earth will still be a fact.

Quote from: Master_Evar on August 31, 2015, 08:13:07 AM

Quote from: jroa on August 31, 2015, 07:29:23 AM

Quote from: Master_Evar on August 31, 2015, 07:19:18 AM

Quote from: jroa on August 31, 2015, 07:15:48 AM

Quote from: Soulblood on August 31, 2015, 07:04:10 AM

Quote from: jroa on August 31, 2015, 06:05:42 AM

Should it not be your burden of proof that anyone who not affiliated with the government has once stared at the sunrise while using a compass to check which direction it was rising on the exact day that it was supposed to be rising in the east and documented it with pictures or video or what ever else you went on about?  You act like I am supposed to do your legwork for you or just believe what you say, even though you have never done this yourself. 

Really? All you have to respond to this is the question of burden of proof? Billions of people, according to you, are caught in the throngs of conspiracy and falsehood, in a scam perpetrated by governments and agencies all over the world ... and there it is, the undeniable proof, evidence you can hold high, which would humiliate all those that have defended the round earth lie for so long, finally silencing all those shills ...

... and all you can bring forth is "burden of proof"?.

If you truly believe in flat earth, if you truly believe that satanist forces are betraying humainity day by day, wouldn't it be your duty to take that chance ... even if it would be a slight inconvenience?

Because I am NOT talking about us convincing you ... this is about the chance of you convincing the rest of the world ... isn't that worth some effort? Isn't this worth putting your actions were your mouth is?

But maybe then you wouldn't feel special anymore ... maybe your life would lose meaning if all those "sheep" would believe the same things you do. Maybe you would then need to make up a new conspiracy ...

So, what is it? Do you believe but not care ... or do you not believe? Because we have reached a point where there is no other choice.

So, your whole argument is, "Surely, one person did this, so it must be true, even though I can not prove that one person did this?"  Your only rebuttal is to claim probability as a defense?  Did you think that we were playing roulette, because I thought we were having a debate.  Would you like for me to try to find my D&D dice so we can each roll to see who wins?  Your arguments get worse every time I read them.  You should feel bad bringing probability into a debate as a defense, much less a probability that you can do even defend using actual numbers, but your gut feeling instead, especially in a serious science forum.  Shame on you.   

Seriouly? It wasn't an argument, it was a proposal. Don't you WANT the population of earth to find out the true shape of the earth? Don't you want to become popular, rich, whatever you want?

I was talking about the burden of proof statement that you replied to.  I am saying that you need to show proof and not just say, "This probably happened at least one."  If I get caught steeling something, I can't just say, "There is a probability that someone else would have stolen it anyway."  Do you think that a judge would accept that as a defense?  Yet, you expect me to accept that as proof in a debate?  This is getting ridiculous.  You are dumbing down the entire internet now.   

You were given a way to prove to everyone that the earth is flat. Then you reject it, starts talking about who should be proving (when you are the obvious minority, who are trying to disprove the generally accepted world view) and now you say something about probabilities.

You really are on confused individual.

Who said I wanted to prove the Earth is flat?  I find it much more enjoyable to point out the round Earth theory flaws.  It makes you all look dumb for believing in this rubbish.  After people realize that they have been lied to all this time, they will usually naturally start researching the flat Earth theory and "gravitate" to our side.  lol

Well, finally someone here answers a question ... so it is "believe and not care" ... I wonder what all those sheep, once they "gravitate" towards flat earth ("hilarious" pun, by the way), will think about people like you, people that knew but decided not to use an easy way to prove it so the lie can be exposed. You think they will be big fans?

By the way, I assume your tax money isn't defrauded by a space agency or fake scientists ... because it would be stupid to think you allow your money to go to such agencies when you have an easy way out. But maybe being a prick is really that important to you.

Well, I guess you can continue to circle-jerk your favorite theory after openly admitting that you are a horrible person and a coward. I wonder if all flat earth believers think like you ... "as long as i can feel superior over all the sheep, i don't care if our lives are manipulated, our money defrauded and our minds controlled ... as long as I can insult and make fun of a few guys that got lost on the internet and stumbled into our tiny, insignificant, dark corner of it."

And an extra reply to the ongoing "burden of proof" discussion in this threat, which actually is off topic, but what the hell ...

Lets forget about quibbling over which side has burden of proof here, because that "literally" leads nowhere.

Lets look at the big picture.

Round earth believers provide one piece of evidence that the earth is round ... billions of people all over the world shrug and move on with their lives without giving it a second thought, as they have never doubted that fact in the first place.

Flat earth believers provide one piece of evidence that the earth is flat ... billions of people all over the world are stunned as the veil they lived under is finally pulled from their eyes and lying, manipulative agencies and governments all over this disk (see how I didn't use globe there) are exposed and tumble.

Like I pointed out before ... if you prefer to argue over semantics while the world suffers, fine, but you are acknowledging that you are a horrible, selfish, ignorant person - not because of your believes, but because you are not willing to do anything about it.

Here is a great piece of evidence that Earth is round, it proves that we see the Sun from the same angle everywhere on Earth and by extension that the Sun is very far away and given that the only way for time zones to be possible is Earth being round.

Here is the thread where I posted the results of my experiment:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62690.0

And an extra reply to the ongoing "burden of proof" discussion in this threat, which actually is off topic, but what the hell ...

Lets forget about quibbling over which side has burden of proof here, because that "literally" leads nowhere.

Lets look at the big picture.

Round earth believers provide one piece of evidence that the earth is round ... billions of people all over the world shrug and move on with their lives without giving it a second thought, as they have never doubted that fact in the first place.

Flat earth believers provide one piece of evidence that the earth is flat ... billions of people all over the world are stunned as the veil they lived under is finally pulled from their eyes and lying, manipulative agencies and governments all over this disk (see how I didn't use globe there) are exposed and tumble.

Like I pointed out before ... if you prefer to argue over semantics while the world suffers, fine, but you are acknowledging that you are a horrible, selfish, ignorant person - not because of your believes, but because you are not willing to do anything about it.

Is there supposed to be a point here?

Here is a great piece of evidence that Earth is round, it proves that we see the Sun from the same angle everywhere on Earth and by extension that the Sun is very far away and given that the only way for time zones to be possible is Earth being round.

Here is the thread where I posted the results of my experiment:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62690.0

There you go with that BS experiment again that even your fellow roundies tried to explain to you is flawed.  Why don't you just retire that one and come up with an experiment that actually does provide evidence for the shape of the Earth instead of posting your one experiment that has nothing to do with the shape of the Earth and then declaring that you have proven the shape.  You do realize that this make your credibility go down, right?

It was only BS because it didn't show what you wanted. 

Quote from: mikeman7918 on September 01, 2015, 07:32:52 AM

Here is a great piece of evidence that Earth is round, it proves that we see the Sun from the same angle everywhere on Earth and by extension that the Sun is very far away and given that the only way for time zones to be possible is Earth being round.

Here is the thread where I posted the results of my experiment:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62690.0

There you go with that BS experiment again that even your fellow roundies tried to explain to you is flawed.  Why don't you just retire that one and come up with an experiment that actually does provide evidence for the shape of the Earth instead of posting your one experiment that has nothing to do with the shape of the Earth and then declaring that you have proven the shape.  You do realize that this make your credibility go down, right?

It's not flawed though. The sunspots are exactly the same. That's the only point that would be important here. It proves that they are looking at the same side of the sun. It can't really happen on a flat earth.

There you go with that BS experiment again that even your fellow roundies tried to explain to you is flawed.  Why don't you just retire that one and come up with an experiment that actually does provide evidence for the shape of the Earth instead of posting your one experiment that has nothing to do with the shape of the Earth and then declaring that you have proven the shape.  You do realize that this make your credibility go down, right?

The only flaw with that experiment is that it leaves reasonable doubt that the results are not faked.  I have tried to do many more experiments an many more occasions requiring flat earther volunteers but in all of those I never once had a flat earther offer to help.  Round earthers volunteered all the time but no flat earthers.

My most recent experiment is the horizon level experiment which is meant to directly measure the curvature of the Earth and it doesn't even require any coordination between users.  Would you like to participate in that experiment?

Successfully diverted the threat from its original subject, where no flat earth believer dares to commit to a straight answer because obviously, all the people that live between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn are in on the conspiracy ... because all of them observe the sun going in a straight line, east to west, during a culmination.

The sun NEVER "goes" in a straight line. 

Quote from: jroa on September 01, 2015, 05:06:23 PM

Quote from: mikeman7918 on September 01, 2015, 07:32:52 AM

Here is a great piece of evidence that Earth is round, it proves that we see the Sun from the same angle everywhere on Earth and by extension that the Sun is very far away and given that the only way for time zones to be possible is Earth being round.

Here is the thread where I posted the results of my experiment:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62690.0

There you go with that BS experiment again that even your fellow roundies tried to explain to you is flawed.  Why don't you just retire that one and come up with an experiment that actually does provide evidence for the shape of the Earth instead of posting your one experiment that has nothing to do with the shape of the Earth and then declaring that you have proven the shape.  You do realize that this make your credibility go down, right?

It's not flawed though. The sunspots are exactly the same. That's the only point that would be important here. It proves that they are looking at the same side of the sun. It can't really happen on a flat earth.

The tile of the experiment is something like, "Experiment to Prove that the Earth is Round."  Or something like that.  Does that alone prove that the experiment was devised with a bias? 

Secondly, the experiment had nothing to do with proving anything; especially not the shape of the Earth.  It is about looking at the sun.  Do you not understand that looking at the sun never "prove" the shape of the Earth?

Thirdly, the results were skewed to make it sound like the Earth must be round.  It could have been a cylinder or an egg or even a cube for all the experiment shows.  Nothing about the experiment proves any shape of the anything.  It is the subjective analysis of the data that mikeman tries to lead people to believe is "proof that the Earth is round."

I know the dog pack (roundies) like to gang together, and I would like to think it is simply because you are on the same side.  However, when one person is being deceitful, it makes you all look like scam artists.  Why don't you call mikeman out on his "scientific experiment, lol" and "detailed analysis"?  Are you people really this desperate? 

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on September 02, 2015, 02:01:34 AM

Quote from: jroa on September 01, 2015, 05:06:23 PM

Quote from: mikeman7918 on September 01, 2015, 07:32:52 AM

Here is a great piece of evidence that Earth is round, it proves that we see the Sun from the same angle everywhere on Earth and by extension that the Sun is very far away and given that the only way for time zones to be possible is Earth being round.

Here is the thread where I posted the results of my experiment:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62690.0

There you go with that BS experiment again that even your fellow roundies tried to explain to you is flawed.  Why don't you just retire that one and come up with an experiment that actually does provide evidence for the shape of the Earth instead of posting your one experiment that has nothing to do with the shape of the Earth and then declaring that you have proven the shape.  You do realize that this make your credibility go down, right?

It's not flawed though. The sunspots are exactly the same. That's the only point that would be important here. It proves that they are looking at the same side of the sun. It can't really happen on a flat earth.

The tile of the experiment is something like, "Experiment to Prove that the Earth is Round."  Or something like that.  Does that alone prove that the experiment was devised with a bias? 

Secondly, the experiment had nothing to do with proving anything; especially not the shape of the Earth.  It is about looking at the sun.  Do you not understand that looking at the sun never "prove" the shape of the Earth?

Thirdly, the results were skewed to make it sound like the Earth must be round.  It could have been a cylinder or an egg or even a cube for all the experiment shows.  Nothing about the experiment proves any shape of the anything.  It is the subjective analysis of the data that mikeman tries to lead people to believe is "proof that the Earth is round."

I know the dog pack (roundies) like to gang together, and I would like to think it is simply because you are on the same side.  However, when one person is being deceitful, it makes you all look like scam artists.  Why don't you call mikeman out on his "scientific experiment, lol" and "detailed analysis"?  Are you people really this desperate?

It doesn't prove that the Earth is round, but it does disprove the current flat earth theory.

Quote from: Soulblood on August 31, 2015, 12:39:48 AM

Successfully diverted the threat from its original subject, where no flat earth believer dares to commit to a straight answer because obviously, all the people that live between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn are in on the conspiracy ... because all of them observe the sun going in a straight line, east to west, during a culmination.

The sun NEVER "goes" in a straight line.

I note your emphasis on 'goes'.  Maybe the use of the term 'appears to travel' would be more acceptable?

In any case, if you're on the equator during an equinox, the sun 'appears to travel' in a completely straight line, from the time it first appears in the morning, through till midday when the sun is directly overhead, until evening when the sun is no longer visible. So to simplify, the sun 'appears to travel' in a completely straight line the whole time that the sun is visible, which will be very close to a 12 hour period.

But according to flat earth theory, the sun can NEVER be observed to 'appear to travel' in a completely straight line, because the sun in transcribing a complete circle over the earth's surface within a 24 hour period, and there is NO part of a circular path that is straight.

Not one flat earther on this forum, has managed to explain why the sun 'appears to travel' in a completely straight line, when in fact, the sun should ALWAYS 'appear to travel' in a curved and circular path.

As I have mentioned previously in a recent post, the upcoming equinox on the 23rd of September will be an excellent opportunity for the flat search society hierarchy to conduct a trip to an equatorial location, and verify one way or the other if the flat earth theory is correct or not.

 The results will be conclusive, with the observation of the sun 'appearing to move' in a completely straight line throughout the day, confirming the round earth model, and conversely, the observation of the sun 'appearing to move' in a curved path will confirm the flat earth model.

Here is one of the few conclusive 'experiments' available to the flat earthers to prove beyond all doubt what so ever, that the round earth model is flawed, so of course the hierarchy of the flat earth movement will conduct this visit to the equator on the 23rd of September. Would you be surprised and disappointed if this visit did not take place, a visit that will be ground breaking in favor of the flat earth theory?

Quote from: Charming Anarchist on September 02, 2015, 10:17:53 AM

Quote from: Soulblood on August 31, 2015, 12:39:48 AM

Successfully diverted the threat from its original subject, where no flat earth believer dares to commit to a straight answer because obviously, all the people that live between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn are in on the conspiracy ... because all of them observe the sun going in a straight line, east to west, during a culmination.

The sun NEVER "goes" in a straight line.

I note your emphasis on 'goes'.  Maybe the use of the term 'appears to travel' would be more acceptable?

You had better take note of that.  Re-write your shill cookbook and then get back to us with a better script. 
You are a terrible shill.  You should be ashamed of yourself. 



Note to honest, honorable and intelligent folks: 
This is how you get the liars, the shills, the disinfo trolls and the prisoners.  At this point, you ask them:  "In your fantasy-sphere-world model, what makes the sun 'appear to travel' in a straight line when we know the relative trajectory is NOT straight???  Explain that optical illusion or go back to hell." 

Quote from: chtwrone on September 02, 2015, 02:40:20 PM

Quote from: Charming Anarchist on September 02, 2015, 10:17:53 AM

Quote from: Soulblood on August 31, 2015, 12:39:48 AM

Successfully diverted the threat from its original subject, where no flat earth believer dares to commit to a straight answer because obviously, all the people that live between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn are in on the conspiracy ... because all of them observe the sun going in a straight line, east to west, during a culmination.

The sun NEVER "goes" in a straight line.

I note your emphasis on 'goes'.  Maybe the use of the term 'appears to travel' would be more acceptable?

You had better take note of that.  Re-write your shill cookbook and then get back to us with a better script. 
You are a terrible shill.  You should be ashamed of yourself. 



Note to honest, honorable and intelligent folks: 
This is how you get the liars, the shills, the disinfo trolls and the prisoners.  At this point, you ask them:  "In your fantasy-sphere-world model, what makes the sun 'appear to travel' in a straight line when we know the relative trajectory is NOT straight???  Explain that optical illusion or go back to hell."

The point is that sun doesn't ALWAYS appear to move in a straight line directly from east to west. It only does so during an equinox and in the equator.

The point is that sun doesn't ALWAYS appear to move in a straight line .....

Is that called de-fuxion of light? 

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on September 02, 2015, 03:29:51 PM

The point is that sun doesn't ALWAYS appear to move in a straight line .....

Is that called de-fuxion of light?

No,  it's not called a "defuxion" of light, whatever that means, if you had actually read a couple stuff concerning the rotation of earth, you would understand what it is.
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