Scepti - Nuclear Power Stations

Quote from: markjo on April 30, 2014, 06:09:37 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 30, 2014, 12:47:32 AM

I'm well aware of how they say it works, Geoffrey. Are you so dense that you can't grasp what's being argued here?
All you thinkers out there; take a look at the above diagram and have a serious think about the steam generation. Does this system look realistic to you?

Ummm....  I don't know how to tell you this Sceptimatic, but that diagram isn't supposed to look realistic.  It's an overly simplified diagram that is meant to give you a general idea of how nuclear power plants work.

I'm aware of that. The point is, it's still a closed system like in the diagram.

What's wrong with a closed system?

It has to be to be passed off as supposedly safe to us.

Well, I hope that it's a safe system, but it's well known that such systems do have certain safety concerns.

The simplified diagram still depicts what they tell us goes on.

The top and bottom of it is, fuel rods in a closed pot in the water. Control rods in between, Lift up the control rods and you have fission. The higher you lift, the more supposed heat from fission because of the more uranium rods exposed.

These rods are fantasy in how they are supposed to work, in my honest opinion.

Do you understand how the control rods are supposed to work? 

Quote from: markjo on April 30, 2014, 06:09:37 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 30, 2014, 12:47:32 AM

I'm well aware of how they say it works, Geoffrey. Are you so dense that you can't grasp what's being argued here?
All you thinkers out there; take a look at the above diagram and have a serious think about the steam generation. Does this system look realistic to you?

Ummm....  I don't know how to tell you this Sceptimatic, but that diagram isn't supposed to look realistic.  It's an overly simplified diagram that is meant to give you a general idea of how nuclear power plants work.

I'm aware of that. The point is, it's still a closed system like in the diagram. It has to be to be passed off as supposedly safe to us.
The simplified diagram still depicts what they tell us goes on.

The top and bottom of it is, fuel rods in a closed pot in the water. Control rods in between, Lift up the control rods and you have fission. The higher you lift, the more supposed heat from fission because of the more uranium rods exposed.

These rods are fantasy in how they are supposed to work, in my honest opinion.

So closed systems can't exist?  Guess you don't know how refrigerators work, or air conditioning units, or hydraulic brake lines.  All of those are closed systems.

If you take a look at the set up, it's basically a closed loop reactor that heats water up and pumps it to a steam generator by the waterheating of a pipe....not an element.
Does this look feasible to you in terms of generating enough steam for a purpose?

I had a gut feeling that you wouldn't even be able to understand this simple diagram sceptimatic LOL.

Thank you for proving me correct.   
 

Maybe he should have a 5 year old explain it to him.

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 30, 2014, 12:47:32 AM

If you take a look at the set up, it's basically a closed loop reactor that heats water up and pumps it to a steam generator by the waterheating of a pipe....not an element.
Does this look feasible to you in terms of generating enough steam for a purpose?

I had a gut feeling that you wouldn't even be able to understand this simple diagram sceptimatic LOL.

Thank you for proving me correct.   

Care to explain it Geoffrey?
You being a nuclear expert and all that, it might help me if you explain what I don't understand.

Maybe he should have a 5 year old explain it to him.

Yes, because 5 year olds know all about this stuff, just like you lot do. Experts!

You love to jump in with this stuff, so why don't you explain it to me as if I was 5 years old. Come on Marky, show me what you're made of.

Quote from: ausGeoff on May 01, 2014, 04:47:43 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 30, 2014, 12:47:32 AM

If you take a look at the set up, it's basically a closed loop reactor that heats water up and pumps it to a steam generator by the waterheating of a pipe....not an element.
Does this look feasible to you in terms of generating enough steam for a purpose?

I had a gut feeling that you wouldn't even be able to understand this simple diagram sceptimatic LOL.

Thank you for proving me correct.   

Care to explain it Geoffrey?
You being a nuclear expert and all that, it might help me if you explain what I don't understand.

If go the nuclear power plant the real experts will explain it to you..

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 05:56:24 AM

Quote from: ausGeoff on May 01, 2014, 04:47:43 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 30, 2014, 12:47:32 AM

If you take a look at the set up, it's basically a closed loop reactor that heats water up and pumps it to a steam generator by the waterheating of a pipe....not an element.
Does this look feasible to you in terms of generating enough steam for a purpose?

I had a gut feeling that you wouldn't even be able to understand this simple diagram sceptimatic LOL.

Thank you for proving me correct.   

Care to explain it Geoffrey?
You being a nuclear expert and all that, it might help me if you explain what I don't understand.

If go the nuclear power plant the real experts will explain it to you..

If you go into a space rocket, you will see the real shape of the Earth. I'll see when the next nuclear plant, visitor access is.
When will you be going into space?

Quote from: markjo on May 01, 2014, 05:33:49 AM

Maybe he should have a 5 year old explain it to him.

Yes, because 5 year olds know all about this stuff, just like you lot do. Experts!

You love to jump in with this stuff, so why don't you explain it to me as if I was 5 years old. Come on Marky, show me what you're made of.

That's what the diagram was for.  If you can't understand that nuclear reactors split atoms to release energy to heat water to make steam to drive a turbine that spins a copper coil through a magnetic field to generate electricity, then I don't know how I can make it any simpler for you.

Quote from: Starman on May 01, 2014, 05:58:50 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 05:56:24 AM

Quote from: ausGeoff on May 01, 2014, 04:47:43 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 30, 2014, 12:47:32 AM

If you take a look at the set up, it's basically a closed loop reactor that heats water up and pumps it to a steam generator by the waterheating of a pipe....not an element.
Does this look feasible to you in terms of generating enough steam for a purpose?

I had a gut feeling that you wouldn't even be able to understand this simple diagram sceptimatic LOL.

Thank you for proving me correct.   

Care to explain it Geoffrey?
You being a nuclear expert and all that, it might help me if you explain what I don't understand.

If go the nuclear power plant the real experts will explain it to you..

If you go into a space rocket, you will see the real shape of the Earth. I'll see when the next nuclear plant, visitor access is.
When will you be going into space?

That is cute. You know I can't go to space but others can take my place. Now you CAN go to the nuclear power plant.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 05:58:05 AM

Quote from: markjo on May 01, 2014, 05:33:49 AM

Maybe he should have a 5 year old explain it to him.

Yes, because 5 year olds know all about this stuff, just like you lot do. Experts!

You love to jump in with this stuff, so why don't you explain it to me as if I was 5 years old. Come on Marky, show me what you're made of.

That's what the diagram was for.  If you can't understand that nuclear reactors split atoms to release energy to heat water to make steam to drive a turbine that spins a copper coil through a magnetic field to generate electricity, then I don't know how I can make it any simpler for you.

But I do know that by the diagram. I know how they say it all works; so what's the issue? Is the issue that I have to believe it?
Let me ask you a few questions and answer it honestly.

Have you seen nuclear fissioning in action at a power station or in a lab?
Have you ever seen an atom split, personally?

If your life depended on it, could you stand in a court and swear that nuclear power is real and works how we are told?

Quote from: markjo on May 01, 2014, 06:22:34 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 05:58:05 AM

Quote from: markjo on May 01, 2014, 05:33:49 AM

Maybe he should have a 5 year old explain it to him.

Yes, because 5 year olds know all about this stuff, just like you lot do. Experts!

You love to jump in with this stuff, so why don't you explain it to me as if I was 5 years old. Come on Marky, show me what you're made of.

That's what the diagram was for.  If you can't understand that nuclear reactors split atoms to release energy to heat water to make steam to drive a turbine that spins a copper coil through a magnetic field to generate electricity, then I don't know how I can make it any simpler for you.

But I do know that by the diagram. I know how they say it all works; so what's the issue? Is the issue that I have to believe it?
Let me ask you a few questions and answer it honestly.

Have you seen nuclear fissioning in action at a power station or in a lab?
Have you ever seen an atom split, personally?

If your life depended on it, could you stand in a court and swear that nuclear power is real and works how we are told?

Silly questions. Have you seen your mother give birth to you? Maybe you don't exist.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 06:30:03 AM

Quote from: markjo on May 01, 2014, 06:22:34 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 05:58:05 AM

Quote from: markjo on May 01, 2014, 05:33:49 AM

Maybe he should have a 5 year old explain it to him.

Yes, because 5 year olds know all about this stuff, just like you lot do. Experts!

You love to jump in with this stuff, so why don't you explain it to me as if I was 5 years old. Come on Marky, show me what you're made of.

That's what the diagram was for.  If you can't understand that nuclear reactors split atoms to release energy to heat water to make steam to drive a turbine that spins a copper coil through a magnetic field to generate electricity, then I don't know how I can make it any simpler for you.

But I do know that by the diagram. I know how they say it all works; so what's the issue? Is the issue that I have to believe it?
Let me ask you a few questions and answer it honestly.

Have you seen nuclear fissioning in action at a power station or in a lab?
Have you ever seen an atom split, personally?

If your life depended on it, could you stand in a court and swear that nuclear power is real and works how we are told?

Silly questions. Have you seen your mother give birth to you? Maybe you don't exist.

It's no more silly than asking me to go to a power station and expect someone to let me tour it to find out what's really going on. They might explain it to me; yet that's the whole point of me questioning it, because the explainers are simply told what to say.

You only know that nuclear power stations work because you have read up on them. From that point on, you are reliant on that, yet spew it out as if you're the one that invented it. 

Have you seen nuclear fissioning in action at a power station or in a lab?
Have you ever seen an atom split, personally?

I have never personally seen any of my great grandparents, but I'm fairly sure that they existed.

Since atoms are pretty tiny, I think that it's pretty safe to say that no one has personally seen an atom split.  However, I have personally been to the nuclear reactor at Cornell University and witnessed the eerie blue glow of Cherenkov radiation which, so they tell me, is a by product of fission.

If your life depended on it, could you stand in a court and swear that nuclear power is real and works how we are told?

Why would my life depend on testifying in court about nuclear power? 

Speaking of testifying in court, let me ask you something.  Do you believe that direct observation of a crime (such as a murder) is the only way to know who committed that crime, or do you believe that it's possible to determine who committed the crime based solely on evidence gathered at the crime scene after the fact? 

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 06:30:03 AM

Have you seen nuclear fissioning in action at a power station or in a lab?
Have you ever seen an atom split, personally?

I have never personally seen any of my great grandparents, but I'm fairly sure that they existed.

That's right, you can be fairly sure they existed. You can do that by using logic. That's something you cannot do with supposed atom splitting/fissioning.

Since atoms are pretty tiny, I think that it's pretty safe to say that no one has personally seen an atom split.

But they managed to split them without knowing what they were doing, so how do you think that happened? Was it just a guess?

However, I have personally been to the nuclear reactor at Cornell University and witnessed the eerie blue glow of Cherenkov radiation which, so they tell me, is a by product of fission.

Eerie blue glow. I can put a toilet fresner in the bowl, then flush it and get an eerie blue glow. 

If your life depended on it, could you stand in a court and swear that nuclear power is real and works how we are told?

Why would my life depend on testifying in court about nuclear power? 

Try and go on the word "IF"... you know, IF you had a billion dollars what would you buy first. Nice little side step.

Speaking of testifying in court, let me ask you something.  Do you believe that direct observation of a crime (such as a murder) is the only way to know who committed that crime, or do you believe that it's possible to determine who committed the crime based solely on evidence gathered at the crime scene after the fact?

It's possible to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a person has committed a murder due to evidence found at the scene, plus alibi's.
If the murderer doesn't play ball, a jury has to decide if he's guilty or not.
Evidence, no matter how concrete looking, is never fully set in concrete, as there could always be an amazing coincidence.
Did you ever see the flim, '12 angry men?'

Eerie blue glow. I can put a toilet fresner in the bowl, then flush it and get an eerie blue glow. 

Nope.  I've used the blue toilet bowl cleaner and it's not nearly the same effect.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 06:30:03 AM

If your life depended on it, could you stand in a court and swear that nuclear power is real and works how we are told?

Quote from: markjo on May 01, 2014, 07:24:05 AM

Why would my life depend on testifying in court about nuclear power? 

Try and go on the word "IF"... you know, IF you had a billion dollars what would you buy first. Nice little side step.

I never claimed to be an expert in nuclear physics nor do I have any credential to that effect, so my courtroom testimony would likely be pretty useless.  As for the billion dollars...  Well, first pay off bills, set a good chunk aside for a cushy retirement, piss away a few million on booze and women then travel the world for a year or so.

Quote from: markjo on May 01, 2014, 07:24:05 AM

Speaking of testifying in court, let me ask you something.  Do you believe that direct observation of a crime (such as a murder) is the only way to know who committed that crime, or do you believe that it's possible to determine who committed the crime based solely on evidence gathered at the crime scene after the fact?

It's possible to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a person has committed a murder due to evidence found at the scene, plus alibi's.
If the murderer doesn't play ball, a jury has to decide if he's guilty or not.
Evidence, no matter how concrete looking, is never fully set in concrete, as there could always be an amazing coincidence.
Did you ever see the flim, '12 angry men?'

Did you ever see the film Marie Curie?  It does a pretty decent job of showing the process that she had do go through to discover Radium.

[quote a That's right, you can be fairly sure they existed. You can do that by using logic. That's something you cannot do with supposed atom splitting/fissioning.

You can use chemistry to analyze samples. You can see the composition change. Fresh yellow cake is emits almost no gamma radiation. But check a sample of yellow cake that has been sitting for 20 years and it emits a great amount of gamma radiation.

But they managed to split them without knowing what they were doing, so how do you think that happened? Was it just a guess?

No, it was not a guess. They knew chain reactions happen. They knew the energy of the alpha particle. The predicted it had enough energy to split an atom. They knew they needed a higher concentration of uranium 235 to get the chain reaction working. Then they were able to test it.

If your life depended on it, could you stand in a court and swear that nuclear power is real and works how we are told?

Give me the necessary materials and equipment, and I'm reasonably confident I could build a functional nuclear reactor.

Nope.  I've used the blue toilet bowl cleaner and it's not nearly the same effect.

They show you a dark pot. They then tell you to get ready. They throw a switch and click, a light comes on and you see a blue glow lol. Naturally you think it's fissioning starting. 

I never claimed to be an expert in nuclear physics nor do I have any credential to that effect, so my courtroom testimony would likely be pretty useless.

Exactly, you're not an expert. There's a reason for that. It's the very same reason why nobody is an expert on it. It doesn't exist, except in the minds of those who made it up. It's a fairy story.

Did you ever see the film Marie Curie?  It does a pretty decent job of showing the process that she had do go through to discover Radium.

Well, we all have to have our noble scientists to hark on about. It's part of life. It's like pop star idols to fans of music.
This world is built on fairy stories and actors and actresses playing a role.

You can use chemistry to analyze samples. You can see the composition change. Fresh yellow cake is emits almost no gamma radiation. But check a sample of yellow cake that has been sitting for 20 years and it emits a great amount of gamma radiation.

Of course it does. If you sit a chunk of cadolizion in a container of chlorhalvazide for 12 years, it emits huge amounts of mozza radiation, which is capable of fissioning and producing heat for 50 years from just one 50 gram block. It is amazing stuff.

No, it was not a guess. They knew chain reactions happen. They knew the energy of the alpha particle. The predicted it had enough energy to split an atom. They knew they needed a higher concentration of uranium 235 to get the chain reaction working. Then they were able to test it.

What do you mean, they knew the energy of the alpha particle and PREDICTED it had enough energy to split an atom. Do you realise what you're saying.
They can't see this stuff and yet they simply predict stuff, then bang, a chain reaction.
Can't you see how bloody stupid this all is?

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 06:30:03 AM

If your life depended on it, could you stand in a court and swear that nuclear power is real and works how we are told?

Give me the necessary materials and equipment, and I'm reasonably confident I could build a functional nuclear reactor.

With some of you people I would have no doubt, giving you the heads of just two matches and silver foil, plus some detergent and you could all start a chain reaction of bull crap up. 

Quote from: Scintific Method on May 01, 2014, 04:25:13 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 06:30:03 AM

If your life depended on it, could you stand in a court and swear that nuclear power is real and works how we are told?

Give me the necessary materials and equipment, and I'm reasonably confident I could build a functional nuclear reactor.

With some of you people I would have no doubt, giving you the heads of just two matches and silver foil, plus some detergent and you could all start a chain reaction of bull crap up. 

When is your power station visit?

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 02, 2014, 01:08:32 AM

Quote from: Scintific Method on May 01, 2014, 04:25:13 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 06:30:03 AM

If your life depended on it, could you stand in a court and swear that nuclear power is real and works how we are told?

Give me the necessary materials and equipment, and I'm reasonably confident I could build a functional nuclear reactor.

With some of you people I would have no doubt, giving you the heads of just two matches and silver foil, plus some detergent and you could all start a chain reaction of bull crap up. 

When is your power station visit?

Never.
A visit to a power station will give me no more thoughts on how it all works, by physically seeing for myself. I will be told how it works: but then again, I can google all of that, like I can google anything; so would there be any point in a visit?

Quote from: inquisitive on May 02, 2014, 01:17:23 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 02, 2014, 01:08:32 AM

Quote from: Scintific Method on May 01, 2014, 04:25:13 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 06:30:03 AM

If your life depended on it, could you stand in a court and swear that nuclear power is real and works how we are told?

Give me the necessary materials and equipment, and I'm reasonably confident I could build a functional nuclear reactor.

With some of you people I would have no doubt, giving you the heads of just two matches and silver foil, plus some detergent and you could all start a chain reaction of bull crap up. 

When is your power station visit?

Never.
A visit to a power station will give me no more thoughts on how it all works, by physically seeing for myself. I will be told how it works: but then again, I can google all of that, like I can google anything; so would there be any point in a visit?

Have you been to the Science Museum in London?

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 02, 2014, 01:26:28 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on May 02, 2014, 01:17:23 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 02, 2014, 01:08:32 AM

Quote from: Scintific Method on May 01, 2014, 04:25:13 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 06:30:03 AM

If your life depended on it, could you stand in a court and swear that nuclear power is real and works how we are told?


Give me the necessary materials and equipment, and I'm reasonably confident I could build a functional nuclear reactor.

With some of you people I would have no doubt, giving you the heads of just two matches and silver foil, plus some detergent and you could all start a chain reaction of bull crap up. 

When is your power station visit?

Never.
A visit to a power station will give me no more thoughts on how it all works, by physically seeing for myself. I will be told how it works: but then again, I can google all of that, like I can google anything; so would there be any point in a visit?

Have you been to the Science Museum in London?

Yes I have, why?

If you go into a space rocket, you will see the real shape of the Earth. I'll see when the next nuclear plant, visitor access is.
When will you be going into space?

Thanks again for yet another of your juvenile non-responses sceptimatic.  Your lack of intellectual aptitude becomes more apparent with every comment you post LOL.

And yes; I have visited a nuclear reactor site and seen for myself how all this stuff works first hand.

The Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation (ANSTO) reactor at Lucas Heights near Sydney NSW conducts regular tours of the entire site subject to prior identity and security checks.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 06:01:47 AM

If you go into a space rocket, you will see the real shape of the Earth. I'll see when the next nuclear plant, visitor access is.
When will you be going into space?

Thanks again for yet another of your juvenile non-responses sceptimatic.  Your lack of intellectual aptitude becomes more apparent with every comment you post LOL.

And yes; I have visited a nuclear reactor site and seen for myself how all this stuff works first hand.

The Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation (ANSTO) reactor at Lucas Heights near Sydney NSW conducts regular tours of the entire site subject to prior identity and security checks.

Did you give them a hand taking off the reactor top? Did they show you anything fissioning?

Quote from: ausGeoff on May 02, 2014, 04:51:02 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 06:01:47 AM

If you go into a space rocket, you will see the real shape of the Earth. I'll see when the next nuclear plant, visitor access is.
When will you be going into space?

Thanks again for yet another of your juvenile non-responses sceptimatic.  Your lack of intellectual aptitude becomes more apparent with every comment you post LOL.

And yes; I have visited a nuclear reactor site and seen for myself how all this stuff works first hand.

The Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation (ANSTO) reactor at Lucas Heights near Sydney NSW conducts regular tours of the entire site subject to prior identity and security checks.

Did you give them a hand taking off the reactor top? Did they show you anything fissioning?

What a stupid question. I take back about you being older than 6.  You are 6 years old.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 02, 2014, 04:56:21 AM

Quote from: ausGeoff on May 02, 2014, 04:51:02 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 06:01:47 AM

If you go into a space rocket, you will see the real shape of the Earth. I'll see when the next nuclear plant, visitor access is.
When will you be going into space?

Thanks again for yet another of your juvenile non-responses sceptimatic.  Your lack of intellectual aptitude becomes more apparent with every comment you post LOL.

And yes; I have visited a nuclear reactor site and seen for myself how all this stuff works first hand.

The Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation (ANSTO) reactor at Lucas Heights near Sydney NSW conducts regular tours of the entire site subject to prior identity and security checks.

Did you give them a hand taking off the reactor top? Did they show you anything fissioning?

What a stupid question. I take back about you being older than 6.  You are 6 years old.

And yet, here you are trying to make conversation with a 6 year old. 

Geoffrey is telling me about his visit. I assume he's telling me his visit is proof of fissioning uranium, so naturally, I'm assuming they showed him how it all works by taking off the lid or something, especially for him.

Quote from: Starman on May 02, 2014, 04:58:41 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 02, 2014, 04:56:21 AM

Quote from: ausGeoff on May 02, 2014, 04:51:02 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 01, 2014, 06:01:47 AM

If you go into a space rocket, you will see the real shape of the Earth. I'll see when the next nuclear plant, visitor access is.
When will you be going into space?

Thanks again for yet another of your juvenile non-responses sceptimatic.  Your lack of intellectual aptitude becomes more apparent with every comment you post LOL.

And yes; I have visited a nuclear reactor site and seen for myself how all this stuff works first hand.

The Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation (ANSTO) reactor at Lucas Heights near Sydney NSW conducts regular tours of the entire site subject to prior identity and security checks.

Did you give them a hand taking off the reactor top? Did they show you anything fissioning?

What a stupid question. I take back about you being older than 6.  You are 6 years old.

And yet, here you are trying to make conversation with a 6 year old. 

Geoffrey is telling me about his visit. I assume he's telling me his visit is proof of fissioning uranium, so naturally, I'm assuming they showed him how it all works by taking off the lid or something, especially for him.

You are the one assuming there is a lid. It shows how you know nothing about nuclear power plants.