How far could you see?

May I ask............what the hell is an atmoplane?

May I ask............what the hell is an atmoplane?

Well, it sure the heck is not an atmosphere.   

Quote from: jroa on November 06, 2013, 10:36:55 AM

Don Quichotte, please stop making stuff up.

On a flat Earth, when the sun, or other celestial object, is directly overhead, it's light is only traveling through a few miles of atmoplane.  When it is at a significant angle, the light must pass through thousands of miles of atmoplane.  Do you need for me to draw you a diagram?  Can you really not understand this?

 

Yes please make a diagram, because I observe stars the moon and the sun just above the horizon, which shouldn't be possible according to your theory.

On a round earth this is true, since the horizon is usually only a few miles distant from the observer the light does not pass "through thousands of miles of atmosphere." On some of the notes about the Titanic disaster there was mention of passengers and crewmen noticing stars rising and setting on the horizon.

With the unusually clear conditions that night the lights of  New York should have been seen from the passengers on the Titanic if the earth was flat.

Question for FE:
Does the bottom of the Ice Dome rest on the top of the  Ice Ring ?
Are some of the stars at the bottom of the Ice Ring ?
I have read some where on other threads that the stars, planets and other celestial objects  are just tiny specks of light on the Ice Dome just above the Moon and the Sun.
(A drawing or diagram would be helpful.)
If this is true :It would be impossible for them to be seen for the same reason the FE explains that the sun would not be seen since it was thousands of miles through the atmolayer or whatever is the FE definition for the equivalent of the atmosphere ?

Ok, I will.  And you will look not so good.

Can't wait

Quote from: jroa on November 06, 2013, 11:25:52 AM

Ok, I will.  And you will look not so good.

Can't wait

I will exercise my patience. I will wait. Got to go now . But I will be back later this evening to see how jroa is going to make Don Quichotte "look not so good." It should be interesting. 

Well, it sure the heck is not an atmosphere.   

Because that would be silly?

Quote

Well, it sure the heck is not an atmosphere.   

Because that would be silly?

You will have to ask jroa for a definiton of the atmolayer . It is an FE term.

It really is pretty self-explanatory, given that 'atmosphere' implies a sphere.

Quote from: Don Quichotte on November 06, 2013, 01:00:54 PM

Quote from: jroa on November 06, 2013, 11:25:52 AM

Ok, I will.  And you will look not so good.

Can't wait

I will exercise my patience. I will wait. Got to go now . But I will be back later this evening to see how jroa is going to make Don Quichotte "look not so good." It should be interesting. 

Still waiting to hear from jroa.

I told you it's an optical illusion.  How can I show you a picture with out the illusion occurring?  I don't have an illusion filter for my camera.

Quote from: InquiringMind on November 06, 2013, 08:52:17 AM

Quote

It goes in a circle.

Visual evidence would suggest the only way it is going in a circle on a flat earth is to go under the earth and come back around the other side.

Like this.

Quote from: InquiringMind on November 06, 2013, 08:52:17 AM

Quote

The atmolayer magnifies the size of the sun.  It is like a giant magnifying glass.

You couldn't even get a 6 year old to buy that explanation.

Have you never hear of atmospheric distortion?

By that diagram at the equator at the equinox the sun would rise in the north east and set in the north west.

Don Quichotte, please stop making stuff up.

On a flat Earth, when the sun, or other celestial object, is directly overhead, it's light is only traveling through a few miles of atmoplane.  When it is at a significant angle, the light must pass through thousands of miles of atmoplane.  Do you need for me to draw you a diagram?  Can you really not understand this?

Wrong, at midnight on the equator at the equinox the sun's light would only travel through the equivalent of 20-25 kilometres of sea level atmopshere.

It seems that Jroa deleted his post, but I'll reply anyway. I'm not making stuff up, it's the observed world. You tell me why we can't see other objects over great distances, because the atmo- plane/layer/sphere is too thick for the light reflecting from these objects to shine through. I ask you why we can see stars, the moon and the sun just above the horizon. They need to travel through that same thickness....so yea, show me your diagram.

And don't think that's the end of it, because I'll point to any mistakes. If you have trouble making a diagram, just come clean and admit it. There is nothing to be ashamed of.

It seems that Jroa deleted his post, but I'll reply anyway. I'm not making stuff up, it's the observed world. You tell me why we can't see other objects over great distances, because the atmo- plane/layer/sphere is too thick for the light reflecting from these objects to shine through. I ask you why we can see stars, the moon and the sun just above the horizon. They need to travel through that same thickness....so yea, show me your diagram.

And don't think that's the end of it, because I'll point to any mistakes. If you have trouble making a diagram, just come clean and admit it. There is nothing to be ashamed of.

You see your stars and your moon because you are viewing them through a much less agitated atmosphere.

How does the moon fit into your ice dome idea sceptimatic?

Quote from: Don Quichotte on November 07, 2013, 04:06:45 AM

It seems that Jroa deleted his post, but I'll reply anyway. I'm not making stuff up, it's the observed world. You tell me why we can't see other objects over great distances, because the atmo- plane/layer/sphere is too thick for the light reflecting from these objects to shine through. I ask you why we can see stars, the moon and the sun just above the horizon. They need to travel through that same thickness....so yea, show me your diagram.

And don't think that's the end of it, because I'll point to any mistakes. If you have trouble making a diagram, just come clean and admit it. There is nothing to be ashamed of.

You see your stars and your moon because you are viewing them through a much less agitated atmosphere.

What is an agitated atmosphere ? Besides that, sceptimatic, I thought you were a confirmed FE ? The correct term in that case should have been agitated atmolayer ?

Don Quichotte , I thought you were waiting for a reply from jroa to "make you look not so good" ? Did I miss something ? I haven't seen a reply from jroa on my computer ?

How does the moon fit into your ice dome idea sceptimatic?

It's a reflection of earth. Don;t get mixed up like others do and think I mean it's a reflection of earth that we live on, as in reflections of street lights and what not.
I mean it's a reflection of a weaker earth sun through earth crystal which would be abundant at the real centre of earths circle, the one we are told is the north pole and has been navigated, which in my opinion is a massive misdirection of the truth.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 05:50:17 AM

Quote from: Don Quichotte on November 07, 2013, 04:06:45 AM

It seems that Jroa deleted his post, but I'll reply anyway. I'm not making stuff up, it's the observed world. You tell me why we can't see other objects over great distances, because the atmo- plane/layer/sphere is too thick for the light reflecting from these objects to shine through. I ask you why we can see stars, the moon and the sun just above the horizon. They need to travel through that same thickness....so yea, show me your diagram.

And don't think that's the end of it, because I'll point to any mistakes. If you have trouble making a diagram, just come clean and admit it. There is nothing to be ashamed of.

You see your stars and your moon because you are viewing them through a much less agitated atmosphere.

What is an agitated atmosphere ? Besides that, sceptimatic, I thought you were a confirmed FE ? The correct term in that case should have been agitated atmolayer ?

Don Quichotte , I thought you were waiting for a reply from jroa to "make you look not so good" ? Did I miss something ? I haven't seen a reply from jroa on my computer ?

I'm sure you have looked down a long road on a hot summers day and saw it look like an agitated mass of waving air, right?
It basically makes mirages and what not and obscures things the further out you look.

Go and take a look down the same road on a cold day and tell me what you see.
Once you do that, try and equate all that to looking at the distant sun, both high in the sky and what you see as low and think about distance and temperature.

It's a reflection of earth. Don;t get mixed up like others do and think I mean it's a reflection of earth that we live on, as in reflections of street lights and what not.
I mean it's a reflection of a weaker earth sun through earth crystal which would be abundant at the real centre of earths circle, the one we are told is the north pole and has been navigated, which in my opinion is a massive misdirection of the truth.

When viewing the moon through a high powered telescope you can see the texture of it's surface. I find it hard to believe we are looking at a reflection.

Quote

It's a reflection of earth. Don;t get mixed up like others do and think I mean it's a reflection of earth that we live on, as in reflections of street lights and what not.
I mean it's a reflection of a weaker earth sun through earth crystal which would be abundant at the real centre of earths circle, the one we are told is the north pole and has been navigated, which in my opinion is a massive misdirection of the truth.

When viewing the moon through a high powered telescope you can see the texture of it's surface. I find it hard to believe we are looking at a reflection.

Have you ever seen the texture of your face in a mirror?
Is that hard to believe it's a reflection?

Try this:
Get a big mirror and a decent torch. Put some patterned wallpaper opposite the mirror and shine a light on the paper. Do this in the dark, so that your torch reflection rebounds back to the mirror and tell me what you see.

Have you ever seen the texture of your face in a mirror?
Is that hard to believe it's a reflection?

No. Because when I do that I am staring directly into a reflective surface.

When I look up at the sky I do see a reflective surface.

Your analogies are terrible.

Try this:
Get a big mirror and a decent torch. Put some patterned wallpaper opposite the mirror and shine a light on the paper. Do this in the dark, so that your torch reflection rebounds back to the mirror and tell me what you see.

I'll see some wallpaper being lit on fire by a torch.......reflected in a mirror?

Makes zero sense.

Quote from: InquiringMind on November 07, 2013, 08:54:14 AM

Quote

It's a reflection of earth. Don;t get mixed up like others do and think I mean it's a reflection of earth that we live on, as in reflections of street lights and what not.
I mean it's a reflection of a weaker earth sun through earth crystal which would be abundant at the real centre of earths circle, the one we are told is the north pole and has been navigated, which in my opinion is a massive misdirection of the truth.

When viewing the moon through a high powered telescope you can see the texture of it's surface. I find it hard to believe we are looking at a reflection.

Have you ever seen the texture of your face in a mirror?
Is that hard to believe it's a reflection?

Try this:
Get a big mirror and a decent torch. Put some patterned wallpaper opposite the mirror and shine a light on the paper. Do this in the dark, so that your torch reflection rebounds back to the mirror and tell me what you see.

You're really of the chart, aren't you? Whenever I look in the mirror I see myself in clear details. It ressembles me. Although I can't be sure of my face, it does show the clothes I wear, etc. You're saying the moon is a reflection of the earth. I've never seen the amount of craters on earth which I see on the surface of the moon. The moon is all grey, while whenever I look at the earth it's blue and green mostly. It's just plain stupidity if you think it's the earth's reflection.

Don Quichotte , I thought you were waiting for a reply from jroa to "make you look not so good" ? Did I miss something ? I haven't seen a reply from jroa on my computer ?

That is right. I am still waiting. Get the sense he promised a diagram he can't make...but let's not grow too impatient. I will remind him if he doesn't keep his promise. As for the reply. 11cookeaw1 quoted Jroa's reply, which is no longer there. I responded to that deleted message.

Quote

Have you ever seen the texture of your face in a mirror?
Is that hard to believe it's a reflection?

No. Because when I do that I am staring directly into a reflective surface.

When I look up at the sky I do see a reflective surface.

Your analogies are terrible.

Quote

Try this:
Get a big mirror and a decent torch. Put some patterned wallpaper opposite the mirror and shine a light on the paper. Do this in the dark, so that your torch reflection rebounds back to the mirror and tell me what you see.

I'll see some wallpaper being lit on fire by a torch.......reflected in a mirror?

Makes zero sense.

Put your torch behind a pattered wall paper opposite the mirror in a dark room and then look into the mirror and tell me what you see.

I see wallpaper with light behind it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 09:01:15 AM

Quote from: InquiringMind on November 07, 2013, 08:54:14 AM

Quote

It's a reflection of earth. Don;t get mixed up like others do and think I mean it's a reflection of earth that we live on, as in reflections of street lights and what not.
I mean it's a reflection of a weaker earth sun through earth crystal which would be abundant at the real centre of earths circle, the one we are told is the north pole and has been navigated, which in my opinion is a massive misdirection of the truth.

When viewing the moon through a high powered telescope you can see the texture of it's surface. I find it hard to believe we are looking at a reflection.

Have you ever seen the texture of your face in a mirror?
Is that hard to believe it's a reflection?

Try this:
Get a big mirror and a decent torch. Put some patterned wallpaper opposite the mirror and shine a light on the paper. Do this in the dark, so that your torch reflection rebounds back to the mirror and tell me what you see.

You're really of the chart, aren't you? Whenever I look in the mirror I see myself in clear details. It ressembles me. Although I can't be sure of my face, it does show the clothes I wear, etc. You're saying the moon is a reflection of the earth. I've never seen the amount of craters on earth which I see on the surface of the moon. The moon is all grey, while whenever I look at the earth it's blue and green mostly. It's just plain stupidity if you think it's the earth's reflection.

Is the Sahara desert blue and green?
What about ice covered land?
What about the oceans?

You've only seen what you can afford or are allowed to see, or is as close as you'll ever see without threatening your existence due to massive atmospheric change.
It's naive to think that you've seen all there is to see.

I see wallpaper with light behind it.

So what do you think you might see off a perfect dome mirror, against blackness?

It's naive to think that you've seen all there is to see.

It's ridiculous to think the moon could be a reflection of the earth.

Completely defies logic.

So what do you think you might see off a perfect dome mirror, against blackness?

I don't know. Find me one and I'll tell you.

Quote

It's naive to think that you've seen all there is to see.

It's ridiculous to think the moon could be a reflection of the earth.

Completely defies logic.

I'll tell you what defies logic. A rotating earth and yet a moon that shows one face to us.
Ask yourself why it only shows one face.

Why Do We Only See One Side of the Moon?
You may have heard references made to the "dark side" of the Moon. This popular, although somewhat inaccurate term refers to the fact that only one face of the Moon, the "near side", is visible to us. The dark side or far side is permanently rotated away from our planet.

Why is this the case? We all know that the Earth rotates on its own axis, so theoretically, the Moon should also do the same, allowing us to get a full picture of the planetoid. Why are we limited to seeing only 50 percent? It turns out that the speed at which the Moon rotates has led to this particular phenomenon. Millions of years ago, the Moon spun at a much faster pace than it does now. However, the gravitational influence of the Earth has gradually acted upon the Moon to slow its rotation down, in the same way that the much smaller gravitational influence of the Moon acts upon the Earth to create tides. This influence slowed the rotational period of the Moon to match that of its orbit – about 29.5 days – and it is now "locked in" to this period.

If the Moon didn't spin at all, then eventually it would show its far side to the Earth while moving around our planet in orbit. However, since the rotational period is exactly the same as the orbital period, the same portion of the Moon's sphere is always facing the Earth.

Another interesting fact is that actually a little bit more than half of the Moon's surface is observable from Earth. Since the Moon's orbit is elliptical, and not circular, the speed of its orbital travel increases and decreases depending on how close it is to our planet. The rotational speed of the Moon is constant however – and this difference between orbital speed and rotational speed means that when the Moon is farthest from the Earth, its orbital speed slows down just enough to allow its rotational speed to overtake it, giving observers a small glimpse of the usually hidden area. The term for this "rocking" motion of the Moon is called libration and it allows for 59 percent of the Moon to be seen in total (over time).

Finally, the reason that the far side of the Moon is frequently referred to as the "dark side" is because many people mistakenly think that it never sees any light from the sun. This notion results from a misinterpretation of the fact that it is never illuminated so that it can be observed from Earth. In fact, since the Moon is constantly rotating on its own axis, there is no area of the planetoid which is in permanent darkness, and the far side of the Moon is only completely devoid of sunlight during a Full Moon – when the Sun is facing the Moon with the Earth in between.