How far could you see?

This question is directed at the flat earther only.
I do not believe the earth to be round and I feel  if I had a telescope with enough power I could see great distances maybe even other countries, does this fit with your beliefs?

 The air is not perfectly transparent.  Even with the most powerful telescope you could not see forever.

What if the air was perfectly transparent?

Then you would be able to see an infinite distance.  However, the air has dust, moister and other stuff in it that hinders the distance it can travel. 

Thanks, this is what I also believe.

Then you would be able to see an infinite distance.  However, the air has dust, moister and other stuff in it that hinders the distance it can travel.

So tell me why the sun isn't 'fogged-in' as it sets or rises?

It is.  It gets dimmer and dimmer until it can not be seen anymore. 

The sun doesn't get dimmer and dimmer.........it comes up from the east horizon and moves over head and then disappears out of view over the west horizon.

It is just an optical illusion.  The atmolayer does funny things to light.

An optical illusion makes it appear to go from the east to above my head to the east and then down under the horizon?

That is an amazing optical illusion.

It really does go from east to west.  The optical illusion comes into play when the sun is so far away that it is approaching the horizon.  This distance is at the limit of the sun's light being able to penetrate the air.  It simply appears to sink below the horizon as it fades away from view. 

I hope this makes sense. 

It really does go from east to west.  The optical illusion comes into play when the sun is so far away that it is approaching the horizon.  This distance is at the limit of the sun's light being able to penetrate the air.  It simply appears to sink below the horizon as it fades away from view. 

I hope this makes sense. 

It doesn't.

So how does it get back in the east again to appear to come up from the horizon?

If the Earth were flat.........the sun wouldn't set on the horizon. It would stay high up in the sky and get smaller and smaller as it moved away until you couldn't see it. Similar to a bird flying away from you.

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It really does go from east to west.  The optical illusion comes into play when the sun is so far away that it is approaching the horizon.  This distance is at the limit of the sun's light being able to penetrate the air.  It simply appears to sink below the horizon as it fades away from view. 

I hope this makes sense. 

It doesn't.

So how does it get back in the east again to appear to come up from the horizon?

It goes in a circle.

If the Earth were flat.........the sun wouldn't set on the horizon. It would stay high up in the sky and get smaller and smaller as it moved away until you couldn't see it. Similar to a bird flying away from you.

The atmolayer magnifies the size of the sun.  It is like a giant magnifying glass.

You say the sun doesn't set below the horizon but fades away in the distance.  How is this picture explained then?  ...or the countless other sunset/sunrise pictures.

Please show us a picture of an example of the sun "fading away" so I can understand what you mean.  Surely there must be a few.

It goes in a circle.

Visual evidence would suggest the only way it is going in a circle on a flat earth is to go under the earth and come back around the other side.

The atmolayer magnifies the size of the sun.  It is like a giant magnifying glass.

You couldn't even get a 6 year old to buy that explanation.

I told you it's an optical illusion.  How can I show you a picture with out the illusion occurring?  I don't have an illusion filter for my camera.

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It goes in a circle.

Visual evidence would suggest the only way it is going in a circle on a flat earth is to go under the earth and come back around the other side.

Like this.

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The atmolayer magnifies the size of the sun.  It is like a giant magnifying glass.

You couldn't even get a 6 year old to buy that explanation.

Have you never hear of atmospheric distortion? 

It is.  It gets dimmer and dimmer until it can not be seen anymore.

Not on the earth I live on. The sun always disappears bottom-up. It does not fade away like I would expect if I would be living on your world.

Like this.

Yeah. Fancy diagram.

Doesn't match up to what we actually see the sun do in reality, however.

Have you never hear of atmospheric distortion? 

Yes, it makes stars appear to twinkle.

It doesn't however, make objects appear somewhere they couldn't physically be in reality.

Quote from: InquiringMind on November 06, 2013, 08:41:44 AM

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It really does go from east to west.  The optical illusion comes into play when the sun is so far away that it is approaching the horizon.  This distance is at the limit of the sun's light being able to penetrate the air.  It simply appears to sink below the horizon as it fades away from view. 

I hope this makes sense. 

It doesn't.

So how does it get back in the east again to appear to come up from the horizon?

It goes in a circle.

Quote from: InquiringMind on November 06, 2013, 08:43:07 AM

If the Earth were flat.........the sun wouldn't set on the horizon. It would stay high up in the sky and get smaller and smaller as it moved away until you couldn't see it. Similar to a bird flying away from you.

The atmolayer magnifies the size of the sun.  It is like a giant magnifying glass.

If it goes in a circle, I would expect to see that. Also how can the atmolayer be magnifying things. You know a magnifying glass is a convex. I certainly would not expect the atmo'layer' to be convex on a flat world. Your theory becomes more bizarre by the minute.

Not all magnifying lenses are convex.  Some are flat. 

Not all magnifying lenses are convex.  Some are flat. 

Even that 'flat' lens is a convex, although less convex than ordinary magnifying lenses.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Fresnel_lens.svg/401px-Fresnel_lens.svg.png

Quote from: jroa on November 06, 2013, 09:12:52 AM

Not all magnifying lenses are convex.  Some are flat. 

Even that 'flat' lens is a convex, although less convex than ordinary magnifying lenses.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Fresnel_lens.svg/401px-Fresnel_lens.svg.png

It just goes to show you that you have misconceptions about magnification.

Quote from: Don Quichotte on November 06, 2013, 09:22:17 AM

Quote from: jroa on November 06, 2013, 09:12:52 AM

Not all magnifying lenses are convex.  Some are flat. 

Even that 'flat' lens is a convex, although less convex than ordinary magnifying lenses.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Fresnel_lens.svg/401px-Fresnel_lens.svg.png

It just goes to show you that you have misconceptions about magnification.

Check out that picture of a Fresnel Lens and tell me what is not convex about it. You'll find that you have a misconception about magnification.

The air is not perfectly transparent.  Even with the most powerful telescope you could not see forever.

It has been mentioned before on previous threads. But there are such things as infrared films with the proper filters which can eliminate haze and other atmospheric effects. If you used these with a powerful enough telescope you should be able to take pictures of Honolulu from San Diego. That is only about 2500 miles. This is just a common thing that a lot of photographers - amateur or professional - do . They use the film and filters  to eliminate haze to get clear pictures such as distant mountains, etc.

I would suggest Flat Earthers do this and post their photographs. Diamond Head at Honolulu and Point Loma in San Diego are suggested points for taking the photographs. Why haven't the Flat Earthers done this and published the photographs on this website ?  It should be very simple to do.....If the earth was flat, that is.

You are seeing through just a relatively thin layer of the earth's atmosphere, but you can see the moon, the sun and stars light years away at night. That is fairly close to infinity.   

P.S. If I'm not wrong and having been on this website for a bit, I would suppose that the Flat Earthers are not going to do this for themselves, but ask Round Earthers to do it for them.

Quote from: jroa on November 05, 2013, 03:30:18 PM

The air is not perfectly transparent.  Even with the most powerful telescope you could not see forever.

It has been mentioned before on previous threads. But there are such things as infrared films with the proper filters which can eliminate haze and other atmospheric effects. If you used these with a powerful enough telescope you should be able to take pictures of Honolu from San Diego. That is only about 2500 miles. This is just a common thing that a lot of photographers - amateur or professional - do . They use the film and filters  to eliminate haze to get clear pictures such as distant mountains, etc.

I would suggest Flat Earthers do this and post their photographs. Diamond Head at Honolulu and Point Loma in San Diego are suggested points for taking the photographs. Why haven't the Flat Earther done this and published the photographs on this website ?  It should be very simple to do.....If the earth was flat, that is.

You are seeing through just a relatively thin layer of the earth's atmosphere, but you can see the moon, the sun and stars light years away at night. That is fairly close to infinity.

That last thing you said isn't true. The atmosphere does not reach till the moon or the stars, but just above the horizon (where we can observe the moon/stars/sun) on a flat earth it would need to travel through a very thick atmosphere of several thousands of miles. The FET says we cannot see so far, but we still observe the moon, stars and the sun.... that's a contradiction.

Don Quichotte, please stop making stuff up.

On a flat Earth, when the sun, or other celestial object, is directly overhead, it's light is only traveling through a few miles of atmoplane.  When it is at a significant angle, the light must pass through thousands of miles of atmoplane.  Do you need for me to draw you a diagram?  Can you really not understand this? 

Don Quichotte, please stop making stuff up.

On a flat Earth, when the sun, or other celestial object, is directly overhead, it's light is only traveling through a few miles of atmoplane.  When it is at a significant angle, the light must pass through thousands of miles of atmoplane.  Do you need for me to draw you a diagram?  Can you really not understand this?

Thanks, jroa. But I think what you are saying is that the moon and the sun are only 3000 miles from the earth in FE Theory ?

Ahem ! IMHO my question is. : Just who is "making stuff up" ? Don Quichotte or jroa ?

Maybe this is a bad analogy but I'll throw it out anyway .:
If you are looking at the moon, etc. you are seeing through a relatively  thin layer of the atmosphere.
If you are looking at distant objects on land you are looking across a thicker layer of atmosphere ?

PS- Sorry. I just shot myself in the foot. They don't even make infrared films for amateurs anymore. So much for that suggestion . But....again IMHO....It seems like the Flat Earthers would have done this years ago when the stuff was still available to prove their point. It would have been a prime example for evidence of a Flat Earth. Just like photos of the Ice Ring.

Don Quichotte, please stop making stuff up.

On a flat Earth, when the sun, or other celestial object, is directly overhead, it's light is only traveling through a few miles of atmoplane.  When it is at a significant angle, the light must pass through thousands of miles of atmoplane.  Do you need for me to draw you a diagram?  Can you really not understand this?

Yes please make a diagram, because I observe stars the moon and the sun just above the horizon, which shouldn't be possible according to your theory.

Ok, I will.  And you will look not so good.