Christian Theism has not been falsified yet

  • 66 Replies
  • 11815 Views
?

Nimp

  • 111
  • +0/-0
Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« on: October 16, 2013, 06:08:20 AM »
Therefore it should be taught alongside the hypothesis of Evolution in schools.

Discuss.

*

Saddam Hussein

  • Official Member
  • 35188
  • +1/-0
  • Former President of Iraq
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2013, 06:11:56 AM »
Go away, Nimp.

/thread

?

Nimp

  • 111
  • +0/-0
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2013, 06:15:16 AM »
Go away, Nimp.

/thread

and here we see the crux of atheism, a refusal to engage in argument, a refusal to even countenance opposing ideas... truly it's the most illogical religion on the face of the Earth.

*

DuckDodgers

  • One Duck to Rule Them All
  • 5476
  • +0/-0
  • What's supposed to go here?
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2013, 06:30:28 AM »
Why don't you put forth your argument of why it should be taught along with evolution?
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

?

Nimp

  • 111
  • +0/-0
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2013, 07:13:30 AM »
Why don't you put forth your argument of why it should be taught along with evolution?

Evolution cannot explain changes of kind in animals, for example, a reptile turning into a mammal. It is an incomplete theory. Therefore, other things should be taught to explain what evolution cannot explain.

?

rottingroom

  • 4785
  • +0/-0
  • Around the world.
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2013, 07:28:34 AM »
Scientific theories are subject to the scientific method in which they must be falsifiable. There is a good reason why religions haven't been falsified (which isn't even really true) and that is because faith embeds infalsifiability. However, if we are to take things like the bible literally then we can see countless claims that are quite blatantly false and instead of concessions to that, apologists move the goal posts. This is similar to your claim that with evolution exists gaps in knowledge and the inference that we should fill those gaps with god. This is the opposite of how scientific inquiry works. Gaps in knowledge are not weaknesses in Science and we shouldn't fill those gaps with unverifiable and unfalsifiable answers.

*

Rama Set

  • 6875
  • +1/-0
  • I am also an engineer
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2013, 08:06:12 AM »
Why don't you put forth your argument of why it should be taught along with evolution?

Evolution cannot explain changes of kind in animals, for example, a reptile turning into a mammal. It is an incomplete theory. Therefore, other things should be taught to explain what evolution cannot explain.

Sorry?  What are you talking about?  First off reptiles did not turn in to mammals.  Mammals and reptile share a common ancestor.  This is probably the most common misapprehension made about evolution. Second, do just a little bit of research and you will find quite a bit of knowledge about the transition of the reptilian-mammalian common ancestry in to mammalian forms.  For example:

http://cambrian.tripod.com/Reptile-Mammal

Now, from an educational perspective, rottingroom is spot on.  Teaching ID because of the "God of the Gaps" is a terrible policy.  We should not teach unfalsifiable hypotheses ever.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Planar Moderator
  • 52344
  • +97/-90
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2013, 08:13:08 AM »
Before you guys waste your time arguing with Nimp, you might want to take a moment to search through his post history.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

*

Alchemist21

  • 610
  • +0/-0
  • tfes.org
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2013, 07:35:36 PM »
Why aren't you a mod yet?
tfes.org

*

Roundy the Truthinessist

  • Flat Earth TheFLAMETHROWER!
  • The Elder Ones
  • 26966
  • +0/-0
  • I'm the boss.
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 07:48:55 PM »
Oh, goody, a Nimp thread.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

*

Saddam Hussein

  • Official Member
  • 35188
  • +1/-0
  • Former President of Iraq
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2013, 08:07:36 PM »
Oh, goody, a Nimp thread.

If only blatant trolling in the serious forums was against the rules.

*

Supertails

  • 4376
  • +0/-0
  • what do i put here
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2013, 12:59:28 AM »
I wish this forum had a disclaimer about Nimp somewhere near the top so people wouldn't respond every single time without fail.
Recently listened to:


?

Mugthulhu

  • 11874
  • +0/-0
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2013, 01:26:06 AM »
Therefore it should be taught alongside the hypothesis of Evolution in schools.

Discuss.
Why Christian theism specifically?

*

Roundy the Truthinessist

  • Flat Earth TheFLAMETHROWER!
  • The Elder Ones
  • 26966
  • +0/-0
  • I'm the boss.
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2013, 07:06:18 PM »
Therefore it should be taught alongside the hypothesis of Evolution in schools.

Discuss.
Why Christian theism specifically?
That is a great question.  I can't wait to see how Nimp responds to this!
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2013, 09:16:54 PM »
This is fun! We Jews would disagree with Nimp. (1), Christians worship a dead Jewish Rabbi, who was nothing particularly special as far as Rabbis go. (2), if he had no human father, then he had no claim to be the Davidic King, since that lineage passed father to son, and did not include adoption. (3), how many 'gods' were born of virgins, and died only to be resurrected in three days to save their followers from sin? Tammuz, Adonis, Mithras, and Jesus, to name only four. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, friends. Jesus irritated the Romans and was posted on a cross, just like app. 200,000 other Jews. Hardly a unique punishment for the 'saviour of the world'.

?

Nimp

  • 111
  • +0/-0
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2013, 06:12:37 AM »
Therefore it should be taught alongside the hypothesis of Evolution in schools.

Discuss.
Why Christian theism specifically?
That is a great question.  I can't wait to see how Nimp responds to this!

Every religion mentions Jesus. So many people believe Christian theism that it must be the true force behind all of creation.

*

Saddam Hussein

  • Official Member
  • 35188
  • +1/-0
  • Former President of Iraq
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2013, 06:13:28 AM »

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2013, 06:25:45 AM »
Since when does every religion mention Jesus? We don't, except to note he was one of several false claimants to the messianic title, alongside Shabbatai ben Tzevy, Simon bar Kokhba, and a whole list of others.

?

rottingroom

  • 4785
  • +0/-0
  • Around the world.
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2013, 06:56:29 AM »
Haha, most religions don't mention Jesus.

*

DuckDodgers

  • One Duck to Rule Them All
  • 5476
  • +0/-0
  • What's supposed to go here?
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2013, 09:17:51 AM »
This is fun! We Jews would disagree with Nimp. (1), Christians worship a dead Jewish Rabbi, who was nothing particularly special as far as Rabbis go. (2), if he had no human father, then he had no claim to be the Davidic King, since that lineage passed father to son, and did not include adoption. (3), how many 'gods' were born of virgins, and died only to be resurrected in three days to save their followers from sin? Tammuz, Adonis, Mithras, and Jesus, to name only four. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, friends. Jesus irritated the Romans and was posted on a cross, just like app. 200,000 other Jews. Hardly a unique punishment for the 'saviour of the world'.
I think you need to provide sources for the claims about religious figures mirroring Jesus.  I've seen this claim about a lot of figures and they have all been false.  My biggest issue with your claim here is that Jesus was a living being while these others are gods and not said to have been birthed as a mortal.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2013, 09:34:39 AM »
The point is not whether Jesus was real or not (although there are some who claim that he wasn't). Mithras is believed to have been real as well. The other two were admittedly gods, who may not have existed in real life. Of course, Confucius and Buddha were said to have been born of virgins also.

The problem as I see it with Jesus is not that he wasn't real. I am prepared to concede that he was. But everything about him was mythologised. Jesus of Nazareth was in fact a Jewish Rabbi, of the Pharisaic tradition, which is why he could criticise them so well. That he was a Pharisee is proved by the fact that he believed the entire Jewish Scriptures (the Saducees accepted only the Torah), he believed in resurrection (the Saducees didn't),  He believed in angels and demons (the Saducees did not), he believed in the Afterlife (the Saducees did not), he taught in parables (which was a common way that Pharisees taught), and that he spent a considerable amount of time in synagogues (the Saducees were intimately connected with Temple worship). 

So this Jewish Rabbi had his life mythologised with all that virgin birth business, and the whole dying and rising saving God business. And Christianity instituted baptism, mirroring a rite of many of the Eastern Mystery Cults, including Mithraism, and Communion, also mirroring Eastern Mystery Cults. Check any good encyclopedia under the headings "communion" and "baptism".

So this Jewish Rabbi who was nailed to a cross for pissing off the Romans turned into a deity. Go figure. Furthermore, the whole Passion narrative is nonsense.

According to the NT, Jesus was brought before the Sanhedrin at night. Except that the Sanhedrin never met at night. He was condemned by about fifteen people. Except that the Sanhedrin never met with less than a quorum of 71. And he was convicted of violating Jewish law and then given to the Romans. Except that that was unnecessary. The Jews had the prerogative of executing  violators of Jewish law by stoning. All they had to do was get the consent of the Roman governor, which consent was rarely denied. So the whole idea of Jesus being punished by the Jews is idiocy.

The whole game is up. These are the reasons that Jews have never converted to Christianity, with the exception of those who usually haven't known their own religion very well in the first place.

*

DuckDodgers

  • One Duck to Rule Them All
  • 5476
  • +0/-0
  • What's supposed to go here?
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2013, 09:49:10 AM »
So you made a baseless claim about other religious figures mirroring the story of Jesus, specifically Tammuz, Adonis (which when looking into it I found that this one exists in Arabic religions as Tammuz), and Mithras (who was born of stone). Thanks for simply stating your lack of evidence.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

?

Pyrolizard

  • 699
  • +0/-0
  • The Militant Skeptic
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2013, 09:54:41 AM »
The point is not whether Jesus was real or not (although there are some who claim that he wasn't). Mithras is believed to have been real as well. The other two were admittedly gods, who may not have existed in real life. Of course, Confucius and Buddha were said to have been born of virgins also.
I recall Buddha being born to a woman and the leader of his tribe, but not of a virgin.  And Confucius born to an officer of the Chinese military.  Granted, this is my memory from high school humanities, so I may be wholly of base.  And I looked up Mithras, he wasn't born to a virgin unless rocks are now considered virgins.

I will, however, agree that the majority of the Christian faith is nonsense.
Quote from: Shmeggley
Wherever someone is wrong on the internet, Pyrolizard will be there!

Quote from: Excelsior John
I dont care about the majority I care about Obama.
Let it always be known that Excelsior John is against democracy.

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2013, 09:55:35 AM »
There are a lot of myths about Mithras, some that conflict with each other, regarding his birth. The other two I granted were presumably fictional insofar as they did not exist in real life. And Mithras may or may not have existed. But you still haven't addressed the rest of my post.

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2013, 09:59:50 AM »
By the other two I meant Tammuz and Adonis. Buddha and Confucius did exist, obviously. And the myths of their being born of virgins were much later creations that conflict with earlier tellings of their births. But the rest of my post hasn't been addressed yet. And although I will concede the point that many heroes who were said to be born of virgins in fact never existed as mortals, that is beside the point.

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2013, 10:14:11 AM »
The claims of Jesus’ birth are no different from any of the other virgin birth legends.
Jesus was not the first god to be born of a virgin. Mut-em-ua, the virgin Queen of Egypt, supposedly gave birth to Pharaoh Amenkept III through a god holding a cross to her mouth.
Ra, the Egyptian sun god, was said to be born of a virgin. So was Perseus, Romulus, Mithras, Genghis Khan, Krishna, Horus, Melanippe, Auge and Antiope.
In the ancient world, great men were born of divine fathers and human mothers. Alexander the Great and the Roman emperor Augustus were great men and (therefore) said to have divine fathers. Jesus was also a great man, so he too must have a divine father.
The claims of Jesus’ birth are no different from any of the other virgin birth legends. It doesn’t have any more evidence or appear to be any more likely. Why believe it over the others?

www.patheos.com

?

Pyrolizard

  • 699
  • +0/-0
  • The Militant Skeptic
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2013, 10:19:06 AM »
The claims of Jesus’ birth are no different from any of the other virgin birth legends.
Jesus was not the first god to be born of a virgin. Mut-em-ua, the virgin Queen of Egypt, supposedly gave birth to Pharaoh Amenkept III through a god holding a cross to her mouth.
Ra, the Egyptian sun god, was said to be born of a virgin. So was Perseus, Romulus, Mithras, Genghis Khan, Krishna, Horus, Melanippe, Auge and Antiope.
In the ancient world, great men were born of divine fathers and human mothers. Alexander the Great and the Roman emperor Augustus were great men and (therefore) said to have divine fathers. Jesus was also a great man, so he too must have a divine father.
The claims of Jesus’ birth are no different from any of the other virgin birth legends. It doesn’t have any more evidence or appear to be any more likely. Why believe it over the others?

www.patheos.com

Why believe the flood of Jewish legends and not the others?  Why believe in the Abrahamic god, and not the others?  Because people are gullible and trusting in family and tradition, even when it holds no real value.
Quote from: Shmeggley
Wherever someone is wrong on the internet, Pyrolizard will be there!

Quote from: Excelsior John
I dont care about the majority I care about Obama.
Let it always be known that Excelsior John is against democracy.

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2013, 10:22:02 AM »
 ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Well, I am not here to prove Judaism true. I was just challenging the claim that Christian Theism hasn't been falsified yet. I could give you a variety of reasons Judaism is true, but they only apply to Jews. We know what God has revealed to us. We are obligated by what we know (The Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings). What God may or may not have revealed to Gentiles, we do not know. Its that simple.

*

DuckDodgers

  • One Duck to Rule Them All
  • 5476
  • +0/-0
  • What's supposed to go here?
Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2013, 10:23:07 AM »
I was just making sure you could back up your claims, which you couldn't.  I hope in the future you no longer use these in arguments as they are baseless.  Additionally,  Ra was not born from a virgin, if I recall correctly his mother was pretty far from a virgin.  You almost sound like you are getting this information from the movie Zeitgeist, which is largely full of incorrect information.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2013, 10:25:25 AM »
Again, as with so many others, the birth of Ra has become pretty muddled as well. Check the website I posted. I'll freely grant that I was NOT correct in some of the particulars. My memory can fail like any other. But you STILL have not addressed the other points in my post.