If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1590 on: January 13, 2014, 04:40:15 AM »
I will do some experiments with matchbox cars soon. But first, I need you to depict what your theory predicts.
Can you give an answer to my previous question? (remember, the kid on a skate into a starting bus)
What are matchbox cars going to prove?
I have no bus, nor a kid on a skateboard at my disposal to do these experiments, so I'll go with a reduced scale ones.
Care to answer please ?
Well, may I suggest the Atkins diet, so you can fit comfortably inside the matchbox car. ;D

On a serious note: Can you as clear as possible tell me what you are suggesting, because all I see is you wanting a calculation of how far the kid would skate on his skate board and I can't give you that without the benefit of having a kid on a skateboard in that scenario.

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inquisitive

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1591 on: January 13, 2014, 05:34:38 AM »
Can you please summarise what you believe holds objects on the ground and why it is nor gravity.

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Spank86

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1592 on: January 13, 2014, 05:40:17 AM »
Can you please summarise what you believe holds objects on the ground and why it is nor gravity.

He believes it's pressure, that we stay down because there's more air above us than below, but what that doesn't explain is what's so special about downwards which doesn't apply to side to side. This means you still need gravity to explain the downwards part.

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QuQu

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1593 on: January 13, 2014, 06:01:28 AM »
In fact, it is the opposite - the air above us has lower pressure than the air bellow us, so we should be accelerating away from the ground. Poor sceptimatic...

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ausGeoff

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1594 on: January 13, 2014, 07:09:41 AM »

 
What sceptimatic doesn't understand is that air pressure functions in all directions equally and simultaneously.

He also doesn't understand that in astrophysics, there is no "up" or "down".  And I'm guessing this is one of the reasons he can't grasp the concept of a gravitational force.

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Antonio

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1595 on: January 13, 2014, 07:18:40 AM »
I will do some experiments with matchbox cars soon. But first, I need you to depict what your theory predicts.
Can you give an answer to my previous question? (remember, the kid on a skate into a starting bus)
What are matchbox cars going to prove?
I have no bus, nor a kid on a skateboard at my disposal to do these experiments, so I'll go with a reduced scale ones.
Care to answer please ?
Well, may I suggest the Atkins diet, so you can fit comfortably inside the matchbox car. ;D

On a serious note: Can you as clear as possible tell me what you are suggesting, because all I see is you wanting a calculation of how far the kid would skate on his skate board and I can't give you that without the benefit of having a kid on a skateboard in that scenario.

Well, I didn't know for the Atkins diet, I was otherwise wondering about the "drink me" potion of Alice in Wonderland, but these matchbox cars are a pain when opening doors  ::)

Here is the setup.
I use a vertically half cut, transparent plastic bottle to simulate the bus. The bus's floor will be something like a cardboard pad sheet.
I put a matchbox  outside the "bus", another into it, just behind his front end. I draw a line on the ground and align the cardboard to get the two cars over  it.

Now I pull on the cardboard. What will happen ?

The deal is : I do the experiment, I give the results, but I only show you the videos if you do the same. Fair enough ?

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rottingroom

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1596 on: January 13, 2014, 07:38:34 AM »
In fact, it is the opposite - the air above us has lower pressure than the air bellow us, so we should be accelerating away from the ground. Poor sceptimatic...

LOL, it's hilarious.

We got a video now, posted by Scintific which proves Scepti's theories to be entirely fallacious but he is so ignorant about physics that somehow he thinks the video proves him right.

The one special situation (helium baloons - object has to be lighter than air) where pressure is the driving force for moving an object actually makes the object move in the OPPOSITE direction from what Scepti would like.

Furthermore, the fact that an area of higher pressure can exist at all isn't possible without some mechanism to make it happen. With the van, it's inertia and for the earth's atmosphere, it's gravity.

So yes, pressure can move objects, but only if the objects are lighter than the medium in which they are moving in.

Yeah, pressure moves things which is why we are floating away from the ground and we are all stuck on the surface of the sky dome ceiling. Right.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1597 on: January 13, 2014, 08:04:25 AM »
I will do some experiments with matchbox cars soon. But first, I need you to depict what your theory predicts.
Can you give an answer to my previous question? (remember, the kid on a skate into a starting bus)
What are matchbox cars going to prove?
I have no bus, nor a kid on a skateboard at my disposal to do these experiments, so I'll go with a reduced scale ones.
Care to answer please ?
Well, may I suggest the Atkins diet, so you can fit comfortably inside the matchbox car. ;D

On a serious note: Can you as clear as possible tell me what you are suggesting, because all I see is you wanting a calculation of how far the kid would skate on his skate board and I can't give you that without the benefit of having a kid on a skateboard in that scenario.

Well, I didn't know for the Atkins diet, I was otherwise wondering about the "drink me" potion of Alice in Wonderland, but these matchbox cars are a pain when opening doors  ::)

Here is the setup.
I use a vertically half cut, transparent plastic bottle to simulate the bus. The bus's floor will be something like a cardboard pad sheet.
I put a matchbox  outside the "bus", another into it, just behind his front end. I draw a line on the ground and align the cardboard to get the two cars over  it.

Now I pull on the cardboard. What will happen ?

The deal is : I do the experiment, I give the results, but I only show you the videos if you do the same. Fair enough ?
Can you tell me which way your half cut bottle will face?

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1598 on: January 13, 2014, 08:11:37 AM »
Can you please summarise what you believe holds objects on the ground and why it is nor gravity.
It's all been explained. Look back.

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Antonio

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1599 on: January 13, 2014, 08:12:55 AM »
I will do some experiments with matchbox cars soon. But first, I need you to depict what your theory predicts.
Can you give an answer to my previous question? (remember, the kid on a skate into a starting bus)
What are matchbox cars going to prove?
I have no bus, nor a kid on a skateboard at my disposal to do these experiments, so I'll go with a reduced scale ones.
Care to answer please ?
Well, may I suggest the Atkins diet, so you can fit comfortably inside the matchbox car. ;D

On a serious note: Can you as clear as possible tell me what you are suggesting, because all I see is you wanting a calculation of how far the kid would skate on his skate board and I can't give you that without the benefit of having a kid on a skateboard in that scenario.

Well, I didn't know for the Atkins diet, I was otherwise wondering about the "drink me" potion of Alice in Wonderland, but these matchbox cars are a pain when opening doors  ::)

Here is the setup.
I use a vertically half cut, transparent plastic bottle to simulate the bus. The bus's floor will be something like a cardboard pad sheet.
I put a matchbox  outside the "bus", another into it, just behind his front end. I draw a line on the ground and align the cardboard to get the two cars over  it.

Now I pull on the cardboard. What will happen ?

The deal is : I do the experiment, I give the results, but I only show you the videos if you do the same. Fair enough ?
Can you tell me which way your half cut bottle will face?
Let's start with the cone forward

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1600 on: January 13, 2014, 08:13:53 AM »
In fact, it is the opposite - the air above us has lower pressure than the air bellow us, so we should be accelerating away from the ground. Poor sceptimatic...
Sit back and a have a serious think about what you have just said, rather than running out of the crowd and shouting, "nah nah,scepti's wrong."
It makes me laugh when people do this. ;D

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1601 on: January 13, 2014, 08:15:11 AM »
I will do some experiments with matchbox cars soon. But first, I need you to depict what your theory predicts.
Can you give an answer to my previous question? (remember, the kid on a skate into a starting bus)
What are matchbox cars going to prove?
I have no bus, nor a kid on a skateboard at my disposal to do these experiments, so I'll go with a reduced scale ones.
Care to answer please ?
Well, may I suggest the Atkins diet, so you can fit comfortably inside the matchbox car. ;D

On a serious note: Can you as clear as possible tell me what you are suggesting, because all I see is you wanting a calculation of how far the kid would skate on his skate board and I can't give you that without the benefit of having a kid on a skateboard in that scenario.

Well, I didn't know for the Atkins diet, I was otherwise wondering about the "drink me" potion of Alice in Wonderland, but these matchbox cars are a pain when opening doors  ::)

Here is the setup.
I use a vertically half cut, transparent plastic bottle to simulate the bus. The bus's floor will be something like a cardboard pad sheet.
I put a matchbox  outside the "bus", another into it, just behind his front end. I draw a line on the ground and align the cardboard to get the two cars over  it.

Now I pull on the cardboard. What will happen ?

The deal is : I do the experiment, I give the results, but I only show you the videos if you do the same. Fair enough ?
Can you tell me which way your half cut bottle will face?
Let's start with the cone forward
So, you mean the back of the bottle will be open?

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Spank86

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1602 on: January 13, 2014, 08:16:18 AM »
Pressure increases as altitude decreases so the air at our feet will have ever so slightly more pressure than the air at our heads.

Unless you're doing a headstand.

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inquisitive

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1603 on: January 13, 2014, 08:27:03 AM »
Can you please summarise what you believe holds objects on the ground and why it is nor gravity.
It's all been explained. Look back.
Where. Please summarise.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1604 on: January 13, 2014, 08:31:06 AM »


 
What sceptimatic doesn't understand is that air pressure functions in all directions equally and simultaneously.
Yes it functions equally, but it's always being unbalanced and having to equalize pressure due to vibration/friction which is always causing high v low pressure, whether that's the earths sun or an object moving through it, whether that's a person of a car or whatever.
If it stays totally still, it freezes COMPLETELY, which can only happen on the last element that makes finishes the dome against a perfect vacuum.
It's you that doesn't understand.
He also doesn't understand that in astrophysics, there is no "up" or "down".  And I'm guessing this is one of the reasons he can't grasp the concept of a gravitational force.
What is Astro physics? If it's about space, then the word is made up to make people look more clued up than they really are.
Astro physics should be renamed as reflection theory.

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BJ1234

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1605 on: January 13, 2014, 08:32:32 AM »
I will do some experiments with matchbox cars soon. But first, I need you to depict what your theory predicts.
Can you give an answer to my previous question? (remember, the kid on a skate into a starting bus)
What are matchbox cars going to prove?
I have no bus, nor a kid on a skateboard at my disposal to do these experiments, so I'll go with a reduced scale ones.
Care to answer please ?
Well, may I suggest the Atkins diet, so you can fit comfortably inside the matchbox car. ;D

On a serious note: Can you as clear as possible tell me what you are suggesting, because all I see is you wanting a calculation of how far the kid would skate on his skate board and I can't give you that without the benefit of having a kid on a skateboard in that scenario.

Well, I didn't know for the Atkins diet, I was otherwise wondering about the "drink me" potion of Alice in Wonderland, but these matchbox cars are a pain when opening doors  ::)

Here is the setup.
I use a vertically half cut, transparent plastic bottle to simulate the bus. The bus's floor will be something like a cardboard pad sheet.
I put a matchbox  outside the "bus", another into it, just behind his front end. I draw a line on the ground and align the cardboard to get the two cars over  it.

Now I pull on the cardboard. What will happen ?

The deal is : I do the experiment, I give the results, but I only show you the videos if you do the same. Fair enough ?
Can you tell me which way your half cut bottle will face?
Let's start with the cone forward
So, you mean the back of the bottle will be open?
I believe he is saying to cut the bottle lengthwise from the part you pour out of to the bottom.  The front and the back would still be closed.  He is doing this to give the car a flat surface to be set on.

Please let me know if that is not what you are thinking Antonio.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1606 on: January 13, 2014, 08:37:52 AM »
Can you please summarise what you believe holds objects on the ground and why it is nor gravity.
It's all been explained. Look back.
Where. Please summarise.
Let's save time doing this with you saying, "explain it and tell me this", when you know fine well it's all in this topic, so if you haven't bothered to look, then I suggest you ask someone who has, because I'm not explaining things 3 or more times like I've been doing.
If you come back with, " you haven't explained anything" or words that hint at anything like that, you will follow the others into the bin and I'm not bothered if you pipe up with, "i don't care", because neither do I.

Your next post will dictate as to whether I answer to you or not, so if you don't get an answer, you know where you went.

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inquisitive

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1607 on: January 13, 2014, 08:39:19 AM »


 
What sceptimatic doesn't understand is that air pressure functions in all directions equally and simultaneously.
Yes it functions equally, but it's always being unbalanced and having to equalize pressure due to vibration/friction which is always causing high v low pressure, whether that's the earths sun or an object moving through it, whether that's a person of a car or whatever.
If it stays totally still, it freezes COMPLETELY, which can only happen on the last element that makes finishes the dome against a perfect vacuum.
It's you that doesn't understand.
He also doesn't understand that in astrophysics, there is no "up" or "down".  And I'm guessing this is one of the reasons he can't grasp the concept of a gravitational force.
What is Astro physics? If it's about space, then the word is made up to make people look more clued up than they really are.
Astro physics should be renamed as reflection theory.
What is the difference in air pressure that keeps my table on the floor?  Metric or imperial units.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1608 on: January 13, 2014, 08:45:28 AM »


 
What sceptimatic doesn't understand is that air pressure functions in all directions equally and simultaneously.
Yes it functions equally, but it's always being unbalanced and having to equalize pressure due to vibration/friction which is always causing high v low pressure, whether that's the earths sun or an object moving through it, whether that's a person of a car or whatever.
If it stays totally still, it freezes COMPLETELY, which can only happen on the last element that makes finishes the dome against a perfect vacuum.
It's you that doesn't understand.
He also doesn't understand that in astrophysics, there is no "up" or "down".  And I'm guessing this is one of the reasons he can't grasp the concept of a gravitational force.
What is Astro physics? If it's about space, then the word is made up to make people look more clued up than they really are.
Astro physics should be renamed as reflection theory.
What is the difference in air pressure that keeps my table on the floor?  Metric or imperial units.
No difference to your eye view.

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rottingroom

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1609 on: January 13, 2014, 08:46:40 AM »
Can you please summarise what you believe holds objects on the ground and why it is nor gravity.
It's all been explained. Look back.
Where. Please summarise.
Let's save time doing this with you saying, "explain it and tell me this", when you know fine well it's all in this topic, so if you haven't bothered to look, then I suggest you ask someone who has, because I'm not explaining things 3 or more times like I've been doing.
If you come back with, " you haven't explained anything" or words that hint at anything like that, you will follow the others into the bin and I'm not bothered if you pipe up with, "i don't care", because neither do I.

Your next post will dictate as to whether I answer to you or not, so if you don't get an answer, you know where you went.

He has answered this with the word pressure but is failing to realize why this answer is crap.

If it's pressure then things should go up.

That's why everyone keeps asking him to say what is making things go down. Cause the answer can't be pressure unless there is more pressure at higher altitudes than at the surface.

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inquisitive

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1610 on: January 13, 2014, 08:48:11 AM »
Eye view. Please explain.

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1611 on: January 13, 2014, 08:50:23 AM »
Eye view. Please explain.
Meaning it's stationary so you see it as balanced.

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inquisitive

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1612 on: January 13, 2014, 08:53:11 AM »
Eye view. Please explain.
Meaning it's stationary so you see it as balanced.
Why does it drop down if I lift it?

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1613 on: January 13, 2014, 09:06:32 AM »
Eye view. Please explain.
Meaning it's stationary so you see it as balanced.
Why does it drop down if I lift it?
Because you are COMPRESSING the air above and forcing that air to push around and under the table to equalize that pressure but as it does so, it flows around the edges of the table, uniformly, if it was lifted evenly and drags the table down and there's only your energy stopping that, so if you leave loose, the table then falls by it's own mass being more dense than the air under it which compresses the air under it making it a higher pressure than above, until that air gets pushed over the sides of the table to try and equalize the pressure difference, which will only happen once it hits the floor, because the floor becomes more dense than the table.

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inquisitive

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1614 on: January 13, 2014, 09:11:27 AM »
Eye view. Please explain.
Meaning it's stationary so you see it as balanced.
Why does it drop down if I lift it?
Because you are COMPRESSING the air above and forcing that air to push around and under the table to equalize that pressure but as it does so, it flows around the edges of the table, uniformly, if it was lifted evenly and drags the table down and there's only your energy stopping that, so if you leave loose, the table then falls by it's own mass being more dense than the air under it which compresses the air under it making it a higher pressure than above, until that air gets pushed over the sides of the table to try and equalize the pressure difference, which will only happen once it hits the floor, because the floor becomes more dense than the table.
I'm holding it for 10 minutes so the air pressure equalises all round it and then let go. Why should it go down and not up?

How does the density of the floor change?

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sceptimatic

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1615 on: January 13, 2014, 09:23:18 AM »
Eye view. Please explain.
Meaning it's stationary so you see it as balanced.
Why does it drop down if I lift it?
Because you are COMPRESSING the air above and forcing that air to push around and under the table to equalize that pressure but as it does so, it flows around the edges of the table, uniformly, if it was lifted evenly and drags the table down and there's only your energy stopping that, so if you leave loose, the table then falls by it's own mass being more dense than the air under it which compresses the air under it making it a higher pressure than above, until that air gets pushed over the sides of the table to try and equalize the pressure difference, which will only happen once it hits the floor, because the floor becomes more dense than the table.
I'm holding it for 10 minutes so the air pressure equalises all round it and then let go. Why should it go down and not up?

How does the density of the floor change?
You can hold it for 3 weeks 4 days, 2 hours, 27 minutes and 44 seconds if you want to, or you can hold it for 10 seconds.
The density of the floor would change very little, assuming you were stood on a solid floor and not dirt.

If air pressure is the result of stacked gases and your body is equalized to the gases at the bottom, why would you think you would go up. It makes no sense.
If your body was equalized to the pressure at the bottom of the ocean, you will stay there unless you decided to jump up a little, but you would soon fall down.
The only way you can float or how you would perceive floating, would be to use your own energy and flap your arms in the air, aided by feathers..super super fast to do that.

The only things that would float, is something lighter than dense air pressure as we know it, which is expanded molecules that are SQUEEZED up. We are dense and are SQUEEZED down.

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inquisitive

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1616 on: January 13, 2014, 09:29:50 AM »
You said the floor BECOMES more dense than the table. Concentrate on what happens to the table when I let go. Why does it go down when the air pressure will be the same above and below it?

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Antonio

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1617 on: January 13, 2014, 09:35:44 AM »
I will do some experiments with matchbox cars soon. But first, I need you to depict what your theory predicts.
Can you give an answer to my previous question? (remember, the kid on a skate into a starting bus)
What are matchbox cars going to prove?
I have no bus, nor a kid on a skateboard at my disposal to do these experiments, so I'll go with a reduced scale ones.
Care to answer please ?
Well, may I suggest the Atkins diet, so you can fit comfortably inside the matchbox car. ;D

On a serious note: Can you as clear as possible tell me what you are suggesting, because all I see is you wanting a calculation of how far the kid would skate on his skate board and I can't give you that without the benefit of having a kid on a skateboard in that scenario.

Well, I didn't know for the Atkins diet, I was otherwise wondering about the "drink me" potion of Alice in Wonderland, but these matchbox cars are a pain when opening doors  ::)

Here is the setup.
I use a vertically half cut, transparent plastic bottle to simulate the bus. The bus's floor will be something like a cardboard pad sheet.
I put a matchbox  outside the "bus", another into it, just behind his front end. I draw a line on the ground and align the cardboard to get the two cars over  it.

Now I pull on the cardboard. What will happen ?

The deal is : I do the experiment, I give the results, but I only show you the videos if you do the same. Fair enough ?
Can you tell me which way your half cut bottle will face?
Let's start with the cone forward
So, you mean the back of the bottle will be open?
I believe he is saying to cut the bottle lengthwise from the part you pour out of to the bottom.  The front and the back would still be closed.  He is doing this to give the car a flat surface to be set on.

Please let me know if that is not what you are thinking Antonio.
No no, that's exactly what I meant.
The back of the bottle will be closed and opened further to test all situations.

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BJ1234

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1618 on: January 13, 2014, 09:36:48 AM »
So now you are saying that differences in density are the cause of the downward movement.  Not air pressure?

In your scenario, this is how I am seeing it.

I lift the table, it compresses the air above it.  This causes a high pressure area above it.  Pushing it down correct?

I let the air pressure equalize so now there is equal pressure , it actually has a slightly higher pressure under it but so insignificant we will call it equal, all around it.  Correct?

I let go of the table, then for some reason, density takes over and pulls it down despite the air pressure being equal all around it. Correct?

What causes this to happen if everything works on air pressure? 
The way I see it, in your scenario where everything works on air pressure, if air pressure is equal all around an object, it should remain where it is put.

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QuQu

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Re: If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?
« Reply #1619 on: January 13, 2014, 09:51:11 AM »
Oh, sceptimatic is also able to explain to all of us what is magnetism:
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?s=a74d028e3ea05b177e5ce8a770abe603&p=9321475&postcount=243

Sceptimatic said that he takes pills for high blood pressure, but is he sure they don't affect the brain functions? We are all very concerned about his health. Poor sceptimatic...