If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?

So, if it's hitting me in the back, how can I topple over backwards?
If what you are saying is correct, than that seat pushing onto my back, should topple me over forwards but that doesn't happen and for good reason. It's because air pressure is at work, not inertia or gravity.

It was pushing you on the back while it was still attached to the bus. Once the acceleration was a value such that the chair was no longer attached, it (as in the bus+seat) stopped pushing on you.

Quote from: Spank86 on January 09, 2014, 05:36:55 AM

Well you're saying that the air resists being pushed about. It must resist being moved about or it wouldn't exert any force on objects that move through it.

It does resist being moved about. It compresses and expands as I've said.

right. So air only moves when there is a force making it move, and only stops moving when a force prevents it continuing.
 

You then don't seem to believe that water or anything else also resists movement and requires a force to move it.

When have I said that? Have you even read any of this topic?
[/quote]
Because you seem to need an explanation for the action of water when you move a glass forward above and beyond "the water resists moving"

That's why I draw that conclusion.

No...it doesn't work like that. If the bus accelerates then so does the seat at the same speed. Not so with the air as the air cannot grip like a bolted seat, so the back of the bus crashes into the air all the way up the bus to leave a low pressure due to compression that immediately gets filled, creating a higher pressure inside the bus than outside pressure, marginally and depending on acceleration, depends on the force of compression into more pressure against you.

so the bus hits the air at the back of the bus and moves it into the air just in front of it, compressing it.

Because the air at the back of the bus does not move until the back of the bus moves it and the air in front of that does not move until the air behind it collides with it.

Likewise if I jump when near the back of an accelerating vehicle I will stop when I hit the back and will be carried along by the back of the bus just like the air beside me is.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 06:38:34 AM

So, if it's hitting me in the back, how can I topple over backwards?
If what you are saying is correct, than that seat pushing onto my back, should topple me over forwards but that doesn't happen and for good reason. It's because air pressure is at work, not inertia or gravity.

It was pushing you on the back while it was still attached to the bus. Once the acceleration was a value such that the chair was no longer attached, it (as in the bus+seat) stopped pushing on you.

My question still stands.
Why if under acceleration, the seat pushes onto your back, then how do you fall backwards. Just give it out plain and simple.

Quote from: rottingroom on January 09, 2014, 06:41:47 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 06:38:34 AM

So, if it's hitting me in the back, how can I topple over backwards?
If what you are saying is correct, than that seat pushing onto my back, should topple me over forwards but that doesn't happen and for good reason. It's because air pressure is at work, not inertia or gravity.

It was pushing you on the back while it was still attached to the bus. Once the acceleration was a value such that the chair was no longer attached, it (as in the bus+seat) stopped pushing on you.

My question still stands.
Why if under acceleration, the seat pushes onto your back, then how do you fall backwards. Just give it out plain and simple.

If I'm reading him correct he's meaning that if not fixed to the bus the chair would topple over backwards with you in it.

Essentially the chair would not move forward with the bus but would remain as still as possible however the friction on the point of contact between the chair and the bus (the legs) would result on the chair tipping as the bus carries the bottom of the legs forward.

With reduced friction or a lower centre of mass the chair might slide back instead of tipping.

Quote from: rottingroom on January 09, 2014, 06:41:47 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 06:38:34 AM

So, if it's hitting me in the back, how can I topple over backwards?
If what you are saying is correct, than that seat pushing onto my back, should topple me over forwards but that doesn't happen and for good reason. It's because air pressure is at work, not inertia or gravity.

It was pushing you on the back while it was still attached to the bus. Once the acceleration was a value such that the chair was no longer attached, it (as in the bus+seat) stopped pushing on you.

My question still stands.
Why if under acceleration, the seat pushes onto your back, then how do you fall backwards. Just give it out plain and simple.

I answered. The seat was pushing on you while it was attached to the bus by gravity. When the seat became unattached it stopped pushing on you.

Because you seem to need an explanation for the action of water when you move a glass forward above and beyond "the water resists moving"

That's why I draw that conclusion.

I don't need any explanation for the action of water, you just decided to make that up.

so the bus hits the air at the back of the bus and moves it into the air just in front of it, compressing it.

The bus moves off and goes faster than the air already inside of it,so at the front of the bus, it becomes low pressure which is immediately filled with every acceleration,creating a higher pressure all down the bus and compressed against the back of the bus. As that happens, you feel the force on your body.

Because the air at the back of the bus does not move until the back of the bus moves it and the air in front of that does not move until the air behind it collides with it.

The bus starts off and the air is balanced up to that point. As the bus moves, it moves faster than the air inside of it, meaning it's compressed and the low pressure it creates at the front is immediately filled creating a higher pressure which your body is not designed to cope with and so you get jolted back.

Likewise if I jump when near the back of an accelerating vehicle I will stop when I hit the back and will be carried along by the back of the bus just like the air beside me is.

Yes, correct, as long as it was accelerating enough to force you there, then in reality, if it could keep accelerating fast enough, you could end up being stuck to the back of the bus with your feet off the floor.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 06:56:57 AM

Quote from: rottingroom on January 09, 2014, 06:41:47 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 06:38:34 AM

So, if it's hitting me in the back, how can I topple over backwards?
If what you are saying is correct, than that seat pushing onto my back, should topple me over forwards but that doesn't happen and for good reason. It's because air pressure is at work, not inertia or gravity.

It was pushing you on the back while it was still attached to the bus. Once the acceleration was a value such that the chair was no longer attached, it (as in the bus+seat) stopped pushing on you.

My question still stands.
Why if under acceleration, the seat pushes onto your back, then how do you fall backwards. Just give it out plain and simple.

If I'm reading him correct he's meaning that if not fixed to the bus the chair would topple over backwards with you in it.

Essentially the chair would not move forward with the bus but would remain as still as possible however the friction on the point of contact between the chair and the bus (the legs) would result on the chair tipping as the bus carries the bottom of the legs forward.

With reduced friction or a lower centre of mass the chair might slide back instead of tipping.

You're getting there spank. Keep that mind open and you may just get a shock as to how the world is duped with all this stuff, because once you realise it's air pressure, it has to put a whole new perspective on a hell of a lot of what you've been told.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 06:56:57 AM

Quote from: rottingroom on January 09, 2014, 06:41:47 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 06:38:34 AM

So, if it's hitting me in the back, how can I topple over backwards?
If what you are saying is correct, than that seat pushing onto my back, should topple me over forwards but that doesn't happen and for good reason. It's because air pressure is at work, not inertia or gravity.

It was pushing you on the back while it was still attached to the bus. Once the acceleration was a value such that the chair was no longer attached, it (as in the bus+seat) stopped pushing on you.

My question still stands.
Why if under acceleration, the seat pushes onto your back, then how do you fall backwards. Just give it out plain and simple.

I answered. The seat was pushing on you while it was attached to the bus by gravity. When the seat became unattached it stopped pushing on you.

But if it came unattached it would have to become unattached by either tipping over BACKWARDS or sliding backwards, so how do you account for this if the CHAIR is PUSHING on your back?

Quote from: Spank86 on January 09, 2014, 06:56:44 AM

Because you seem to need an explanation for the action of water when you move a glass forward above and beyond "the water resists moving"

That's why I draw that conclusion.

I don't need any explanation for the action of water, you just decided to make that up.

well the water moves. you have to have AN explanation or your theory falls apart.

Quote from: Spank86 on January 09, 2014, 06:56:44 AM

so the bus hits the air at the back of the bus and moves it into the air just in front of it, compressing it.

The bus moves off and goes faster than the air already inside of it,so at the front of the bus, it becomes low pressure which is immediately filled with every acceleration,creating a higher pressure all down the bus and compressed against the back of the bus. As that happens, you feel the force on your body.

But why doesn't the air at the front of the bus keep moving at the same rate as the actual bus? What causes this low pressure?

Quote from: Spank86 on January 09, 2014, 06:56:44 AM

Because the air at the back of the bus does not move until the back of the bus moves it and the air in front of that does not move until the air behind it collides with it.

The bus starts off and the air is balanced up to that point. As the bus moves, it moves faster than the air inside of it, meaning it's compressed and the low pressure it creates at the front is immediately filled creating a higher pressure which your body is not designed to cope with and so you get jolted back.

Quote from: Spank86 on January 09, 2014, 06:56:44 AM

Likewise if I jump when near the back of an accelerating vehicle I will stop when I hit the back and will be carried along by the back of the bus just like the air beside me is.

Yes, correct, as long as it was accelerating enough to force you there, then in reality, if it could keep accelerating fast enough, you could end up being stuck to the back of the bus with your feet off the floor.

So if I'm not in a seat the back of the bus moves towards me and catches me up. If I AM in a seat it does not, the back of the seat prevents that happening by moving into me at the same rate as the rest of the bus carrying me along with it.

Quote from: Spank86 on January 09, 2014, 07:01:09 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 06:56:57 AM

Quote from: rottingroom on January 09, 2014, 06:41:47 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 06:38:34 AM

So, if it's hitting me in the back, how can I topple over backwards?
If what you are saying is correct, than that seat pushing onto my back, should topple me over forwards but that doesn't happen and for good reason. It's because air pressure is at work, not inertia or gravity.

It was pushing you on the back while it was still attached to the bus. Once the acceleration was a value such that the chair was no longer attached, it (as in the bus+seat) stopped pushing on you.

My question still stands.
Why if under acceleration, the seat pushes onto your back, then how do you fall backwards. Just give it out plain and simple.

If I'm reading him correct he's meaning that if not fixed to the bus the chair would topple over backwards with you in it.

Essentially the chair would not move forward with the bus but would remain as still as possible however the friction on the point of contact between the chair and the bus (the legs) would result on the chair tipping as the bus carries the bottom of the legs forward.

With reduced friction or a lower centre of mass the chair might slide back instead of tipping.

You're getting there spank. Keep that mind open and you may just get a shock as to how the world is duped with all this stuff, because once you realise it's air pressure, it has to put a whole new perspective on a hell of a lot of what you've been told.

I would agree, he is speaking correctly. Notice, that he didn't say anything about pressure.

I'll give up on you at this point spank because I'm of the belief that you are simply playing games.

I'll give up on you at this point spank because I'm of the belief that you are simply playing games.

You might put it like that.

Personally I feel I'm merely exploring the ramifications of your theory and whether it both fits with observable reality and can explain all elements of the system.

My issue is with how it explains the movement or lack of movement of the air itself.

Whilst you can use air to explain the movement of items on the bus you still have to explain why the air compresses as the bus moves.

What force acts upon the air to cause it to move towards the back of the bus? Because otherwise you come back to the air simply staying still until the back of the bus moves enough other air towards it to push it forward.

Another thing that I am having trouble with here scepti, is that you need a different explanation every time something in the system changes.

Getting push back in your seat is caused by air moving to the back of the bus. 
Items on a table getting the tablecloth pulled out from underneath them are pushed up in the air by a low pressure underneath them.

Where as inertia explains both of those scenarios.

Also, I was having a think about air pressure causing what we perceive as gravity.
If, as you claim, it is caused by the downward pressure of the atmosphere, what would happen if you had a block of steel that was 1ftx1ftx2ft.  You weigh it standing on end so that one of the 1fx1ft sides is up.  Then you weigh it where one of the 1ftx2ft sides is up.

Does the block weigh any different?  If so, why?  If not, why?

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 07:17:28 AM

I'll give up on you at this point spank because I'm of the belief that you are simply playing games.

You might put it like that.

Personally I feel I'm merely exploring the ramifications of your theory and whether it both fits with observable reality and can explain all elements of the system.

My issue is with how it explains the movement or lack of movement of the air itself.

Whilst you can use air to explain the movement of items on the bus you still have to explain why the air compresses as the bus moves.

What force acts upon the air to cause it to move towards the back of the bus? Because otherwise you come back to the air simply staying still until the back of the bus moves enough other air towards it to push it forward.

Ok, I'll carry on with you, but next time read thoroughly what I type, because if you did, you would have seen, time and time again what force acts to compress the air.
I'll give it to you again, so please read it carefully and absorb it.

When the bus is stationary, the atmospheric pressure inside of it is balanced.
When the bus accelerates, it unbalances that pressure by moving faster than the air pressure friction can grip the insides of the bus and in doing so, it leaves a low pressure imbalance at the front which is immediately filled and because it was filled, it has created a higher than atmospheric pressure compression on you so it kicks you back or forces you back slowly depending on the speed of acceleration.

The reason is compresses is because it cannot escape the back of the bus quickly enough.
Are you getting it yet?

Quote from: Antonio on January 09, 2014, 06:20:34 AM

So the kids is propelled backwards to the rear of the bus. If we open the rear door, the kid will get out (he's quite good, he is still on the skate).
Will he be still moving backwards outside?

If the bus was going at a decent accelerating speed then he would skate out of the back, hit the road and would be following the bus with his back to it at a slower speed.
For instance. If the bus has accelerated to 50 mph by the time the kid went out the back and the kid left the back of the bus going at 10 mph, then he would land and assuming he could stay on his board, he would be following the bus at approx 40 mph for a second or two before he gradually slowed down.

Totally lost now.
You say that the kid is pushed backwards out of the bus. How did he get this 40 mph forward motion, as the only force acting on him was the air pushing him backwards?

Other question. If the back of the bus is totally opened, there is no resistance to air. How does it work then ?

Quote from: Spank86 on January 09, 2014, 07:22:04 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 07:17:28 AM

I'll give up on you at this point spank because I'm of the belief that you are simply playing games.

You might put it like that.

Personally I feel I'm merely exploring the ramifications of your theory and whether it both fits with observable reality and can explain all elements of the system.

My issue is with how it explains the movement or lack of movement of the air itself.

Whilst you can use air to explain the movement of items on the bus you still have to explain why the air compresses as the bus moves.

What force acts upon the air to cause it to move towards the back of the bus? Because otherwise you come back to the air simply staying still until the back of the bus moves enough other air towards it to push it forward.

Ok, I'll carry on with you, but next time read thoroughly what I type, because if you did, you would have seen, time and time again what force acts to compress the air.
I'll give it to you again, so please read it carefully and absorb it.

When the bus is stationary, the atmospheric pressure inside of it is balanced.
When the bus accelerates, it unbalances that pressure by moving faster than the air pressure friction can grip the insides of the bus and in doing so, it leaves a low pressure imbalance at the front which is immediately filled and because it was filled, it has created a higher than atmospheric pressure compression on you so it kicks you back or forces you back slowly depending on the speed of acceleration.

The reason is compresses is because it cannot escape the back of the bus quickly enough.
Are you getting it yet?

Even if this was remotely satisfying given this one scenario, it doesn't explain motion for a variety of other instances. The details used here in what you mistakenly seem to be inferring to be a closed system do not apply to other situations. Using a moving vehicle that isn't enclosed like a bus such as a large trailer bed of a large semi truck completely dismisses everything you are saying even though the same things would happen and can still be explained by inertia and momentum.

I've had experience at sea aboard amphibious assault ships and during rough seas the ship would sway back and forth. We'd sit on computer chairs with wheels in our enclosed office and slide across the room but the same things would happen on the flight deck as well. Some objects would not move during those seas because they were secured (attached) to the deck or a bulkhead. Some objects were heavy enough themselves that they didn't need to be secured.

This isn't surprising. Theories that reject reality seem to have to be tweaked and adjusted for each situation and scenario presented. Unlike the interlocking simplicity of reality.

Another thing that I am having trouble with here scepti, is that you need a different explanation every time something in the system changes.

Yes, a different explanation but the end result is always the same in that it's high versus low pressure, every time and this is key to grasping it all.

Getting push back in your seat is caused by air moving to the back of the bus. 

It's the bus going faster than the air, leaving it behind from front to back which creates the low pressure at the front as it all compresses all the way to the back and that low pressure HAS to be equalised all of the time. So acceleration gradually is always creating a low pressure which is always filled, creating more compression and putting your sea level adjusted body under stress which is forcing you back for as long as the acceleration lasts.

Items on a table getting the tablecloth pulled out from underneath them are pushed up in the air by a low pressure underneath them.

This where speed is key. The table cloth is being pulled faster than the air it's in and it creates a low pressure under the items as it moves that is immediately equalized and because it happens so fast you don't notice that the items become like skates on ice, it's sort of like a nano second levitation for each iten that the cloth passes under.

Where as inertia explains both of those scenarios.

If you are serious about finding out about this stuff, the you need to pick up both of those words, inertia and gravity and put them in a nice hiding place so they allow you to concentrate on the reality.
If you are not satisfied that atmospheric pressure is the reason, then get them back out and stick to them.

Also, I was having a think about air pressure causing what we perceive as gravity.
If, as you claim, it is caused by the downward pressure of the atmosphere, what would happen if you had a block of steel that was 1ftx1ftx2ft.  You weigh it standing on end so that one of the 1fx1ft sides is up.  Then you weigh it where one of the 1ftx2ft sides is up.

Does the block weigh any different?  If so, why?  If not, why?

No it wouldn't make any difference. It is part of the atmospheric pressure to start with, as are the scales, so it's still displacing the same amount of air pressure so the same amount will act on it.

Totally lost now.
You say that the kid is pushed backwards out of the bus. How did he get this 40 mph forward motion, as the only force acting on him was the air pushing him backwards?

He is going 10 mph less speed than the bus as he leaves the back of the bus. The bus is displacing the air as it moves through it at 50 mph so in effect the bus is creating a low pressure environment around it as it pushes through it, so as the kid jumps out, he jumps straight into the oncoming  50 mph pressure but he's hitting it at 10 mph so by the time he hits the ground, the pressure carries him in the direction of the bus, except he's going backwards.

Other question. If the back of the bus is totally opened, there is no resistance to air. How does it work then ?

Well the kid was already out of the bus and the people inside the bus will be under no extra force anyway as the bus was at a steady speed.

But if the 1ftx2ft side is facing up, it will be acted on by twice as much downward air pressure than if the 1ftx1ft side is facing up.  Therefore, the air pressure pushing down on it must be larger.  If air pressure causes what we perceive as gravity, it must therefore make the block weigh more if it is laying on its side.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 07:35:54 AM

Quote from: Spank86 on January 09, 2014, 07:22:04 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 07:17:28 AM

I'll give up on you at this point spank because I'm of the belief that you are simply playing games.

You might put it like that.

Personally I feel I'm merely exploring the ramifications of your theory and whether it both fits with observable reality and can explain all elements of the system.

My issue is with how it explains the movement or lack of movement of the air itself.

Whilst you can use air to explain the movement of items on the bus you still have to explain why the air compresses as the bus moves.

What force acts upon the air to cause it to move towards the back of the bus? Because otherwise you come back to the air simply staying still until the back of the bus moves enough other air towards it to push it forward.

Ok, I'll carry on with you, but next time read thoroughly what I type, because if you did, you would have seen, time and time again what force acts to compress the air.
I'll give it to you again, so please read it carefully and absorb it.

When the bus is stationary, the atmospheric pressure inside of it is balanced.
When the bus accelerates, it unbalances that pressure by moving faster than the air pressure friction can grip the insides of the bus and in doing so, it leaves a low pressure imbalance at the front which is immediately filled and because it was filled, it has created a higher than atmospheric pressure compression on you so it kicks you back or forces you back slowly depending on the speed of acceleration.

The reason is compresses is because it cannot escape the back of the bus quickly enough.
Are you getting it yet?

Even if this was remotely satisfying given this one scenario, it doesn't explain motion for a variety of other instances. The details used here in what you mistakenly seem to be inferring to be a closed system do not apply to other situations. Using a moving vehicle that isn't enclosed like a bus such as a large trailer bed of a large semi truck completely dismisses everything you are saying even though the same things would happen and can still be explained by inertia and momentum.

I've had experience at sea aboard amphibious assault ships and during rough seas the ship would sway back and forth. We'd sit on computer chairs with wheels in our enclosed office and slide across the room but the same things would happen on the flight deck as well. Some objects would not move during those seas because they were secured (attached) to the deck or a bulkhead. Some objects were heavy enough themselves that they didn't need to be secured.

This isn't surprising. Theories that reject reality seem to have to be tweaked and adjusted for each situation and scenario presented. Unlike the interlocking simplicity of reality.

Put yourself in any scenario. Any you want to. Make it easily understandable to me and if I cannot answer, I will become a global earth fanatic, how's that. That's how confident I am that atmospheric pressure in what you define as gravity and inertia.

Hey guys.....

I can't actually believe that this (silly) discussion is continuing!

I have to say—and with all due respect to sceptimatic—that his knowledge of physics and aerodynamics is somewhat lacking.

He doesn't fully understand mass v. weight, inertia, momentum, friction, force, acceleration, gravity, pressure of liquids and gasses, or kinetic and potential energy.

Armed with that information, it should be obvious that we're all wasting our time attempting to have any sort of discussion with him based on known scientific theories.

For those interested, this is a brief descriptive page explaining the stuff above:  BASIC BIOMECHANICAL CONCEPTS  http://bit.ly/1iWApmA

I'd suggest you have a quick look at it too sceptimatic.  It might clarify a few issues for you.

Quote from: Antonio on January 09, 2014, 07:40:18 AM

Totally lost now.
You say that the kid is pushed backwards out of the bus. How did he get this 40 mph forward motion, as the only force acting on him was the air pushing him backwards?

He is going 10 mph less speed than the bus as he leaves the back of the bus. The bus is displacing the air as it moves through it at 50 mph so in effect the bus is creating a low pressure environment around it as it pushes through it, so as the kid jumps out, he jumps straight into the oncoming  50 mph pressure but he's hitting it at 10 mph so by the time he hits the ground, the pressure carries him in the direction of the bus, except he's going backwards.

Quote from: Antonio on January 09, 2014, 07:40:18 AM

Other question. If the back of the bus is totally opened, there is no resistance to air. How does it work then ?

Well the kid was already out of the bus and the people inside the bus will be under no extra force anyway as the bus was at a steady speed.

Still unclear. What is the kid's speed and  direction when he is just about exiting the bus ?

Hey guys.....

I can't actually believe that this (silly) discussion is continuing!

I have to say—and with all due respect to sceptimatic—that his knowledge of physics and aerodynamics is somewhat lacking.

He doesn't fully understand mass v. weight, inertia, momentum, friction, force, acceleration, gravity, pressure of liquids and gasses, or kinetic and potential energy.

Armed with that information, it should be obvious that we're all wasting our time attempting to have any sort of discussion with him based on known scientific theories.

For those interested, this is a brief descriptive page explaining the stuff above:  BASIC BIOMECHANICAL CONCEPTS  http://bit.ly/1iWApmA

I'd suggest you have a quick look at it too sceptimatic.  It might clarify a few issues for you.

How about leaving it up to the people to decide. You are not their keeper, are you?
If they decide to stick rigidly to the misinformation then fine, I have absolutely no problem with that. I mean, after all...who wants to go against official mainstream scientific theories, even if they can explain things but cannot be accounted for as a force and yet here's me, not only accounting for the force, I'm fully explaining it as I go along.

You wanted me banning for being a nut, so treat me like one and ignore me and let the others decide for themselves.
You go on about disrespect and here you are being disrespectful because something doesn't suit you. Do you have some kind of agenda?

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 08:03:34 AM

Quote from: Antonio on January 09, 2014, 07:40:18 AM

Totally lost now.
You say that the kid is pushed backwards out of the bus. How did he get this 40 mph forward motion, as the only force acting on him was the air pushing him backwards?

He is going 10 mph less speed than the bus as he leaves the back of the bus. The bus is displacing the air as it moves through it at 50 mph so in effect the bus is creating a low pressure environment around it as it pushes through it, so as the kid jumps out, he jumps straight into the oncoming  50 mph pressure but he's hitting it at 10 mph so by the time he hits the ground, the pressure carries him in the direction of the bus, except he's going backwards.

Quote from: Antonio on January 09, 2014, 07:40:18 AM

Other question. If the back of the bus is totally opened, there is no resistance to air. How does it work then ?

Well the kid was already out of the bus and the people inside the bus will be under no extra force anyway as the bus was at a steady speed.

Still unclear. What is the kid's speed and  direction when he is just about exiting the bus ?

I've just gave you all of that info, what's your problem with it?

I think scepti understands the basic concepts behind many things you guys are talking to him about.

He rejects them to frustrate you and keep you going and he inserts his own reality with things like the dome and atmospheric pressure (a name you'd think he'd change since he doesn't believe the earth to be spherical). His reality has no factual backing and it's doubtful anyone outside of earthisaspaceship actually believes in it.

He's been proven wrong countless times but insists he is still correct because he is playing a game with you. No amount of well thought out scientific information is going to change his game. It's pointless to even begin trying to take him seriously.

I will say reading these threads is completely hilarious though. He can't see the many ways he contradicts himself and everyone arguing with him can't see how easily they are being trolled.

Quote from: Spank86 on January 09, 2014, 07:22:04 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 07:17:28 AM

I'll give up on you at this point spank because I'm of the belief that you are simply playing games.

You might put it like that.

Personally I feel I'm merely exploring the ramifications of your theory and whether it both fits with observable reality and can explain all elements of the system.

My issue is with how it explains the movement or lack of movement of the air itself.

Whilst you can use air to explain the movement of items on the bus you still have to explain why the air compresses as the bus moves.

What force acts upon the air to cause it to move towards the back of the bus? Because otherwise you come back to the air simply staying still until the back of the bus moves enough other air towards it to push it forward.

Ok, I'll carry on with you, but next time read thoroughly what I type, because if you did, you would have seen, time and time again what force acts to compress the air.
I'll give it to you again, so please read it carefully and absorb it.

When the bus is stationary, the atmospheric pressure inside of it is balanced.
When the bus accelerates, it unbalances that pressure by moving faster than the air pressure friction can grip the insides of the bus and in doing so, it leaves a low pressure imbalance at the front which is immediately filled and because it was filled, it has created a higher than atmospheric pressure compression on you so it kicks you back or forces you back slowly depending on the speed of acceleration.

The reason is compresses is because it cannot escape the back of the bus quickly enough.
Are you getting it yet?

surely we're still back to the air not moving unless a force acts upon it and the air resisting that movement.

If it didn't resist movement it wouldn't compress it would simply move freely along with the bus.

Likewise in reverse as the bus slows, if the air didn't keep moving in the absence of a force slowing it down then it wouldn't move towards the front of the bus as the bus slows.

Ok, spank, I'll try it a different way.

Tell me what would happen in this scenario and it might help me understand where you're at with my thoughts.
I put you on a BOLTED down seat inside a bus sized cylinder at 14.7 psi. You are sat facing the filler nozzle.
I decide to add 1 psi to that cylinder with my filler hose.
What happens to you inside that cylinder?

Ok, spank, I'll try it a different way.

Tell me what would happen in this scenario and it might help me understand where you're at with my thoughts.
I put you on a BOLTED down seat inside a bus sized cylinder at 14.7 psi. You are sat facing the filler nozzle.
I decide to add 1 psi to that cylinder with my filler hose.
What happens to you inside that cylinder?

My ears pop.

I may also feel the air rushing past my face depending on how close I am to the nozzle.

I'm more interested in the action of the air itself though.

In what causes it to compress and expand, I can't think of an alternative to it resisting changes in motion.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 08:37:01 AM

Ok, spank, I'll try it a different way.

Tell me what would happen in this scenario and it might help me understand where you're at with my thoughts.
I put you on a BOLTED down seat inside a bus sized cylinder at 14.7 psi. You are sat facing the filler nozzle.
I decide to add 1 psi to that cylinder with my filler hose.
What happens to you inside that cylinder?

My ears pop.

I may also feel the air rushing past my face depending on how close I am to the nozzle.

I'm more interested in the action of the air itself though.

In what causes it to compress and expand, I can't think of an alternative to it resisting changes in motion.

You wouldn't feel wind, you would feel a compression on your body, because the cylinder is already under compression.

Have you read all that I have explained or just bypassed it, because it's all there.

Quote from: Antonio on January 09, 2014, 08:23:43 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 09, 2014, 08:03:34 AM

Quote from: Antonio on January 09, 2014, 07:40:18 AM

Totally lost now.
You say that the kid is pushed backwards out of the bus. How did he get this 40 mph forward motion, as the only force acting on him was the air pushing him backwards?

He is going 10 mph less speed than the bus as he leaves the back of the bus. The bus is displacing the air as it moves through it at 50 mph so in effect the bus is creating a low pressure environment around it as it pushes through it, so as the kid jumps out, he jumps straight into the oncoming  50 mph pressure but he's hitting it at 10 mph so by the time he hits the ground, the pressure carries him in the direction of the bus, except he's going backwards.

Quote from: Antonio on January 09, 2014, 07:40:18 AM

Other question. If the back of the bus is totally opened, there is no resistance to air. How does it work then ?

Well the kid was already out of the bus and the people inside the bus will be under no extra force anyway as the bus was at a steady speed.

Still unclear. What is the kid's speed and  direction when he is just about exiting the bus ?

I've just gave you all of that info, what's your problem with it?

Well, the kid starts going backwards, and then forward. Where does the direction change ?