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robertotrevor

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #870 on: March 23, 2013, 06:28:10 AM »
Not ever.
If only you could back this up with something other than your opinion.
It's not reasonable to ask him to prove a negative. Instead, try to provide evidence of the positive. A situation where someone smashed two pieces of metal very hard and, in result, blew up a city.

Provide evidence of the positive? you mean of Hiroshima and Nagasaki explosions? there is no lack of evidence for nuclear bombs.
Its not like sokarul is asking evidence that unicorns or invisible fairies dont exist. If scepti wants to say there is a hoax, and that what happened in those cities was not a nuclear explosion, he needs to back up those claims, and prove that his alternative version makes more sense than the official. Otherwise he would be just ignoring the evidence.

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jason_85

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #871 on: March 23, 2013, 06:35:15 AM »
In order for the energy to be "conserved" it has to be shot out at high speed?

Ok, you lost me here.


And in one swoop you've taken on fission and the first law of thermodynamics, neither of which you understand...
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

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A Doubter

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #872 on: March 23, 2013, 06:45:32 AM »
I personally don't believe that the internet exists.

I mean, I've never seen it and neither has anyone else.  I think you all live in the box on my desk and you can't prove otherwise. :D
The video demonstrates that we can not fully trust our senses.

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robertotrevor

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #873 on: March 23, 2013, 07:55:40 AM »
You tell me how I can physically back it up?
No, you tell me.

I can't back it up anymore than you can back up your stance on it being real, except, "the videos"  and "everyone knows they're real."

What?

That's not backing anything up, it's simply following general opinion and believing what's put in front of you without actually physically knowing if it can work.

Im not backing up anything, neither was I pretending I did. As you said I am following the general opinion, as I think there are no reasons to believe otherwise, you say that is not true, but you cant back up that claim, you are also a very irrational and uneducated person, so your word alone doesn't count.

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markjo

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #874 on: March 23, 2013, 08:01:34 AM »
You tell me how I can physically back it up?
I can't back it up anymore than you can back up your stance on it being real, except, "the videos"  and "everyone knows they're real."
That's not backing anything up, it's simply following general opinion and believing what's put in front of you without actually physically knowing if it can work.

What about first had witness accounts of the countless people who researched the physics of the bombs, built the bombs, dropped the bombs and survived the aftermath of the bombs?  Do they count at all?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Pythagoras

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #875 on: March 23, 2013, 08:35:04 AM »
You tell me how I can physically back it up?
I can't back it up anymore than you can back up your stance on it being real, except, "the videos"  and "everyone knows they're real."
That's not backing anything up, it's simply following general opinion and believing what's put in front of you without actually physically knowing if it can work.

What about first had witness accounts of the countless people who researched the physics of the bombs, built the bombs, dropped the bombs and survived the aftermath of the bombs?  Do they count at all?

obviously not lol because they would prove sceptic wrong and he cant go about having that can he.

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robertotrevor

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #876 on: March 23, 2013, 09:07:51 AM »
You tell me how I can physically back it up?
I can't back it up anymore than you can back up your stance on it being real, except, "the videos"  and "everyone knows they're real."
That's not backing anything up, it's simply following general opinion and believing what's put in front of you without actually physically knowing if it can work.

What about first had witness accounts of the countless people who researched the physics of the bombs, built the bombs, dropped the bombs and survived the aftermath of the bombs?  Do they count at all?
Nope: not one iota.

So there is evidence, you just dont want to accept it.

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robertotrevor

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #877 on: March 23, 2013, 09:10:44 AM »
What kind of evidence is there?

...first had witness accounts of the countless people who researched the physics of the bombs, built the bombs, dropped the bombs and survived the aftermath of the bombs...

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Pythagoras

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #878 on: March 23, 2013, 09:12:06 AM »
all of nuclear physics
2 destroyed citys
2 nuclear reactor meltdowns.
every nuclear reactor in existence
medical nuclear isotopes
research nuclear isotopes
industrial nuclear isotopes
nuclear submarines staying under water for 6 months
radioactive fallout in the atmosphere

the list goes on


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robertotrevor

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #879 on: March 23, 2013, 09:31:58 AM »
What kind of evidence is there?

...first had witness accounts of the countless people who researched the physics of the bombs, built the bombs, dropped the bombs and survived the aftermath of the bombs...
So this is the evidence is it?

Not "the" evidence. Its evidence.

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markjo

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #880 on: March 23, 2013, 09:32:59 AM »
What kind of evidence is there?

...first had witness accounts of the countless people who researched the physics of the bombs, built the bombs, dropped the bombs and survived the aftermath of the bombs...
So this is the evidence is it?
What kind of evidence would it take to convince you?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Pythagoras

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #881 on: March 23, 2013, 09:38:52 AM »
and that isnt anything to do with nuclear physics so try again

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Pythagoras

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #882 on: March 23, 2013, 09:43:14 AM »
whats the point in a nuclear reactor if it takes a external power source to create the illusion of a nuclear power station considering its supposed to generate electricity? kinda stupid huh?

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robertotrevor

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #883 on: March 23, 2013, 09:48:02 AM »
What kind of evidence is there?

...first had witness accounts of the countless people who researched the physics of the bombs, built the bombs, dropped the bombs and survived the aftermath of the bombs...
So this is the evidence is it?

Not "the" evidence. Its evidence.
I've seen pictures of the loch ness monster and people have told me that they have been to Scotland and seen strange things in the water and they think it's nessie.

Crews on boats with sonar have scoured the loch with some seeing strange shapes on sonar. That's evidence isn't it?

You have seen pictures of the loch ness monster? really? you mean this http://www.wired.com/images/article/full/2007/08/loch_ness_monster_580x.jpg ? strange things in water that people think is nessie. Please scepty, try being a little more rational.

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lolzy

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #884 on: March 23, 2013, 09:48:39 AM »
In order for the energy to be "conserved" it has to be shot out at high speed?

Ok, you lost me here.
I can understand decaying particles of something dispersing into the environment, I just don't understand why they have to become unstable and shoot into it at speed.

The radioactive elements themselves are unstable, which is why they release particles. The particles can be unstable or may not be, depending on the particle. The speed also depends on the particles: alpha particles, the biggest radioactive particles, are generally released at very low speeds and can be stopped with a piece of paper. This can be observed by using a Geiger counter, a piece of paper, and an alpha-emitting substance. Beta particles, on the other hand, are basically electrons, which are much smaller so they get ejected at much higher speeds. These would probably be stopped by a small, thick sheet of metal or plastic. Gamma rays, which are high-energy electromagnetic rays (think higher energy than, but similar to, X-rays), need a couple inches of lead to stop them.

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Let's look at some logic.
The picture underneath is supposedly plutonium. Plutonium, it's said: that if just one pound of it was dispersed evenly over the earth, it would kill every person on it.


I'm not sure if this is true. If it is, it would have to be aerosolized for people to breathe in, the radiation dose alone from outside your body likely won't kill you.

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Pay no attention to that man with the washing up gloves on, let's concentrate on this disc of plutonium that is highly poisonous.

Now remember, plutonium only exists as it is, because of nuclear fissioning inside reactors, which somehow spawn this ultra poisonous radiation emitting plutonium which is turned into a disc of "lead" like metal.

There are very small natural amounts of plutonium, but for the most part yes you're right.

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This disc, gets machined so it is the right size for a nuclear bomb, aided by a bullet made of the same stuff and they both sit at each end of a nuclear weapon.

You're describing two different types of nuclear weapons at this point. There are two bombs that have been used in warfare, the Little Boy (Hiroshima) and the Fat Man (Nagasaki). The Little Boy contained uranium, and was the gun-type weapon that you describe. Plutonium, however, was observed to have a very high neutron emission rate and generated quite a lot of heat, so the risk of it going initiating early was very high. Keep in mind it wouldn't have detonated, but it would have made a lot of nuclear waste. So the Fat Man, the plutonium bomb, was designed differently.

This is a diagram of the plutonium bomb:



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It's quite safe for it to sit inside this nuclear bomb, even though the fuel from a nuclear reactor is ultra dangerous and has to be cooled in a pool for a few decades until the little pellets are cool enough to be put into containers and buried deep in the earth.

The fuel that is used in nuclear bombs or power plants is not the same thing as the waste that has to be disposed of. The waste is significantly more dangerous.

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The plutonium that's extracted for the bombs appears to become safe and can be stored inside the bomb, in silos, submarines and what not, with no effects to the people watching over them or the environment, unless someone angers it.

Once they decide to detonate one, they simply insert some cordite, or similar kind of ordinary explosive, which propels the plutonium bullet, into a disc like this below, except maybe a bit better machined set off the explosives, causing the plutonium core and neutron source to be suddenly under tremendous pressure..

Let me explain. Normally, neutron emission in these bombs is happening at a slow, steady pace. Since atoms are mostly empty space, it's likely that these neutrons won't collide with other nuclei. Even if they do collide, it's not likely to be a head on collision, so the full energy won't be transferred from the neutron to the nucleus.

When the bomb is detonated, however, the explosives compress the plutonium and the neutron source in the middle. This packs the plutonium atoms and neutron source tighter, because they're under very high pressure at this point. Now, a far higher percentage of neutrons will actually slam into nuclei in a head-on collision, breaking them apart. This releases a LOT of energy, and it also releases more neutrons. More neutrons means more collisions, which means more energy and more neutrons. That's the chain reaction that we talk about, and it's why nuclear weapons work.

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Once this happens...anyone not wearing factor 10 billion will not have a very nice day and neither will the city you're in.
It's ok if the bullet just drops onto the disc, as that's not a problem. Even throwing the bullet full force at the disc, probably won't detonate the disc.

What?
What?
I said, detonate the disc.

What do you mean, what do I mean?
I mean, the bullet slams into the lead like disc and somehow it super fissions in a nano second, surely you can see how a disc like this can do that.
What do you mean the cordite explosives would blow up the bomb casing before these lead like metals had a chance to  slam into each other?
Of course that won't happen.
Why?
Well, because it just won't and as you can see on any real nuclear bomb test videos , it works, so there.

The casing around the core (conventional explosives, plutonium, and neutron source) was very, very thick metal. It could withstand a lot of pressure. Also, it would only need to withstand the explosion long enough for the plutonium to go critical, which wouldn't take long, probably a few microseconds.

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So remember. If you ever see something that looks like lead on your  jaunts out, be careful it's not plutonium, don't just think it's lead - put on some marigolds before you pick it up and do not be throwing other pieces of lead at it to see if it detonates, as this is irresponsible. ;)

Radioactive isotopes needs to be concentrated before they can be used in bombs or power plants.

Hope that helps, let me know if you have any more questions.

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lolzy

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #885 on: March 23, 2013, 10:35:54 AM »
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No more questions as of yet.
Just looking at that just strengthens my mind to be honest and will probably make many others think about what they've been brought up to believe.

No, probably just you.

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markjo

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #886 on: March 23, 2013, 10:41:44 AM »
What kind of evidence would it take to convince you?
Watching a nuclear detonation and seeing what we see on video, then I'd be convinced.
In the 1940s and '50s, the US and USSR did quite a few above ground nuclear tests.  Many of the US tests that were done in Nevada were witnessed by civilians in nearby towns.  However, international treaty pretty much outlawed above ground nuclear testing.  More recently, pretty much all nuclear bomb testing as been stopped by the major nuclear powers, so you would probably have to talk to North Korea to see if they would let you witness a test.

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Seeing the uranium pellets put into the tubes and lowered into a reactor, whilst inspecting to make sure there were no external energy source to set them off heating up the water.
Well, as we've mentioned before, there are several universities that do have small scale nuclear reactors on campus.  If you try, you might be able to get a guided tour of one and they could answer any questions that you might have.  I have personally been to the reactor at Cornell University before it was decommissioned a few years back.  Although I didn't measure the water temperature, I did see the unmistakable faint blue glow of Cherenkov radiation that tells you that fission is occurring.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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robertotrevor

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #887 on: March 23, 2013, 10:50:15 AM »
What kind of evidence is there?

...first had witness accounts of the countless people who researched the physics of the bombs, built the bombs, dropped the bombs and survived the aftermath of the bombs...
So this is the evidence is it?

Not "the" evidence. Its evidence.
I've seen pictures of the loch ness monster and people have told me that they have been to Scotland and seen strange things in the water and they think it's nessie.

Crews on boats with sonar have scoured the loch with some seeing strange shapes on sonar. That's evidence isn't it?

You have seen pictures of the loch ness monster? really? you mean this http://www.wired.com/images/article/full/2007/08/loch_ness_monster_580x.jpg ? strange things in water that people think is nessie. Please scepty, try being a little more rational.
I don't buy into it but they say it's evidence that something is there and the loch ness monster is firmly in everyones minds, it's just that nothing "official" has came out to say it's all true but if it did, then the loch ness monster becomes real especially if they can show some official pictures of it, in all it's glory.

You know, something like they do with atomic bomb footage.

Not with those pictures. If there were pictures of the ness monster in all its glory taken by different persons, then sure, that could be evidence. But there are not.

Having said that, this example you have given has no comparison with the atomic bombs event. One is a sighting of strange stuff from time to time, and people giving it a name and making a story. And the other is a well documented event that happened once, which had lots of consequences also well documented and studied.

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sevenhills

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #888 on: March 23, 2013, 10:56:37 AM »
Is there any Delusion you dont not fervantly subscribe to?
What did you do to pass the time before access to the internet allowed to read such undiluted rubbish , sorry I mena do your comprehensive evaluations using logic and a free (feeble?) mind..


What had Richard III and atomic energy got in common? Or is that jsut another red herring 'cos you dont know what you are talknig about?

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robertotrevor

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #889 on: March 23, 2013, 10:58:12 AM »
I can think of many other differences.

(Is it because roberty? sounds kind of gay)

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sevenhills

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #890 on: March 23, 2013, 11:07:36 AM »
YOu always try t owiden the subject when you are lost - Stick to the nuclear physics and start another topic anout England's 15the Century warfare and "whatever happened to King Richard?"

You could try writing out what you think happened, and presenting it for consideration by other people - That may almost be a bit like academic activity for you :)

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lolzy

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #891 on: March 23, 2013, 11:10:11 AM »
Is there any Delusion you dont not fervantly subscribe to?
What did you do to pass the time before access to the internet allowed to read such undiluted rubbish , sorry I mena do your comprehensive evaluations using logic and a free (feeble?) mind..


What had Richard III and atomic energy got in common? Or is that jsut another red herring 'cos you dont know what you are talknig about?

His username rings very true. Sceptimatic, a machine whose only job is to be skeptical about everything he hears, but not to actually consider evidence.

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A Doubter

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #892 on: March 23, 2013, 02:55:10 PM »
Scepti is not a sceptic, he his just a denialist. His scepticism will not allow him to accept this.
The video demonstrates that we can not fully trust our senses.

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lolzy

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #893 on: March 23, 2013, 03:46:43 PM »
Scepti is not a sceptic, he his just a denialist. His scepticism will not allow him to accept this.

It's a shame he hasn't seen a psychiatrist :\ I bet there's something there.

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jason_85

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #894 on: March 23, 2013, 07:07:22 PM »
Scepti is not a sceptic, he his just a denialist. His scepticism will not allow him to accept this.

It's a shame he hasn't seen a psychiatrist :\ I bet there's something there.

Who knows. I started reading through some of the diagnostic criteria in the DSM 4 some months ago, and assuming that he is not being disingenuous about what he is saying (disc. : I'm not a psychiatrist and this does not constitute medical advice) I think most of the criteria of 295.10 (disorganised type schizophrenia) seem to be met by his posts (here's a link: http://www.behavenet.com/node/21558). Something more benign like an attention disorder might also explain parts of his behaviour. If he is genuine I would be surprised if he does not have some mental problem that inhibits him from following a logical chain of thought for extended periods. There certainly does seem to be something there...
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

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markjo

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #895 on: March 23, 2013, 08:43:53 PM »
Marko:

Dielectric is the use of an electrical field. Basically it's like switching it on isn't it, so it's not a uranium fissioning.
??? Okay.  What does that have to do with anything?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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A Doubter

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #896 on: March 24, 2013, 01:38:02 AM »
Scepti is not a sceptic, he his just a denialist. His scepticism will not allow him to accept this.

It's a shame he hasn't seen a psychiatrist :\ I bet there's something there.

Who knows. I started reading through some of the diagnostic criteria in the DSM 4 some months ago, and assuming that he is not being disingenuous about what he is saying (disc. : I'm not a psychiatrist and this does not constitute medical advice) I think most of the criteria of 295.10 (disorganised type schizophrenia) seem to be met by his posts (here's a link: http://www.behavenet.com/node/21558). Something more benign like an attention disorder might also explain parts of his behaviour. If he is genuine I would be surprised if he does not have some mental problem that inhibits him from following a logical chain of thought for extended periods. There certainly does seem to be something there...

Now that's an interesting point.  I do remember reading a while ago about some research which seemed to indicate a correlation between unshakeable belief in conspiracies and some form of disorder (although I don't think it made it to the DSM).  I will see if I can find it.
The video demonstrates that we can not fully trust our senses.


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A Doubter

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #898 on: March 24, 2013, 10:12:10 AM »
That was cool.
The video demonstrates that we can not fully trust our senses.

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A Doubter

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Re: Stars and light years.
« Reply #899 on: March 24, 2013, 10:19:35 AM »
Yes, that was cool, pull a switch, CLICK and a light comes on.

HA!  You don't understand the physics of how a light comes on.

Anyway, there was also a clunking noise.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 10:21:30 AM by A Doubter »
The video demonstrates that we can not fully trust our senses.