Ron Paul

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #90 on: January 14, 2012, 03:58:26 PM »
I guess I have to concede your point, but it still doesn't make Obama an ideal candidate in my view.
I'm impressed by your intellectual honesty. Few people (especially with low post counts) are willing to acknowledge new data when it contradicts their previous arguments.

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He dragged his feet getting the troops out of Iraq.
In what way? He's already removed 100,000 troops keeping to his combat withdrawal schedule.




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He dragged his feet closing Gitmo
Soon after Obama was inaugurated in 2009 he signed an executive order for its closure. Yet in December the US Congress passed a defense funding appropriation bill with a provision that established a legal call to keep the detention center open indefinitely. Not only was he working on the logistics of releasing hundreds of prisoners of war from unjust imprisonment, he was fighting the legislative branch to do it. While trying to undermine this process, congress actually enacted bills placing bureaucratic restrictions on the prosecution of Guantanamo detainees in Federal courts.

To expand on some of those logistics, they included bringing GTMO detainees "to justice in prosecutions in either federal civilian courts or in reformed military commissions", "coordinating with court-ordered releases of detainees", and "transferring detainees from Guantanamo whenever it is possible to do so safely and humanely".

I'm not arguing that earlier isn't better... but I'm more apt to see the closure of GTMO as a victory.


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he supported the illegal PATRIOT Act
I agree with your criticism of the act, and will let your use of the word 'illegal' go.

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He voted for NDAA when he promised he would veto it
I believe we have sufficiently discussed this and are aware both of the circumstances as well as our shared disappointments.

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And I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, I hate both parties equally.
I have little reservations about the actual parties but as far as specific candidates and media propaganda go, I prefer Obama to Bush and Fox News.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 08:19:14 PM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #91 on: January 14, 2012, 10:13:16 PM »
I guess I have to concede your point, but it still doesn't make Obama an ideal candidate in my view.
I'm impressed by your intellectual honesty. Few people (especially with low post counts) are willing to acknowledge new data when it contradicts their previous arguments.

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He dragged his feet getting the troops out of Iraq.
In what way? He's already removed 100,000 troops keeping to his combat withdrawal schedule.




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He dragged his feet closing Gitmo
Soon after Obama was inaugurated in 2009 he signed an executive order for its closure. Yet in December the US Congress passed a defense funding appropriation bill with a provision that established a legal call to keep the detention center open indefinitely. Not only was he working on the logistics of releasing hundreds of prisoners of war from unjust imprisonment, he was fighting the legislative branch to do it. While trying to undermine this process, congress actually enacted bills placing bureaucratic restrictions on the prosecution of Guantanamo detainees in Federal courts.

To expand on some of those logistics, they included bringing GTMO detainees "to justice in prosecutions in either federal civilian courts or in reformed military commissions", "coordinating with court-ordered releases of detainees", and "transferring detainees from Guantanamo whenever it is possible to do so safely and humanely".

I'm not arguing that earlier isn't better... but I'm more apt to see the closure of GTMO as a victory.


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he supported the illegal PATRIOT Act
I agree with your criticism of the act, and will let your use of the word 'illegal' go.

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He voted for NDAA when he promised he would veto it
I believe we have sufficiently discussed this and are aware both of the circumstances as well as our shared disappointments.

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And I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, I hate both parties equally.
Stephen Colbert for president. ;)
I have little reservations about the actual parties but as far as specific candidates and media propaganda go, I prefer Obama to Bush and Fox News.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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heresis

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #92 on: January 15, 2012, 09:15:34 AM »
I'm impressed by your intellectual honesty. Few people (especially with low post counts) are willing to acknowledge new data when it contradicts their previous arguments.

I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

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In what way? He's already removed 100,000 troops keeping to his combat withdrawal schedule.

His campaign promise said he would remove all troops in Iraq by 2009. How is that on schedule? Also, he only removed "combat troops", US soldiers are still there. They're still in every country we've invaded. It's nothing more than political slight-of-hand.

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Soon after Obama was inaugurated in 2009 he signed an executive order for its closure. Yet in December the US Congress passed a defense funding appropriation bill with a provision that established a legal call to keep the detention center open indefinitely. Not only was he working on the logistics of releasing hundreds of prisoners of war from unjust imprisonment, he was fighting the legislative branch to do it. While trying to undermine this process, congress actually enacted bills placing bureaucratic restrictions on the prosecution of Guantanamo detainees in Federal courts.

To expand on some of those logistics, they included bringing GTMO detainees "to justice in prosecutions in either federal civilian courts or in reformed military commissions", "coordinating with court-ordered releases of detainees", and "transferring detainees from Guantanamo whenever it is possible to do so safely and humanely".

I'm not arguing that earlier isn't better... but I'm more apt to see the closure of GTMO as a victory.

Again, he promised he would close it within six months of being elected. Whether it was his fault or not, he shouldn't make promises he can't guarantee. And again, I fail to see how Guantanamo Bay is legal in the first place, but that's a whole different issue.


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I agree with your criticism of the act, and will let your use of the word 'illegal' go.

Why do you have a problem with the word illegal? The PATRIOT Act is just that, it has the power to over rule the Fourth Amendment. Any law that supersedes the Constitution is null and void.

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I believe we have sufficiently discussed this and are aware both of the circumstances as well as our shared disappointments.

I just listed it as another reason for why I dislike the guy.

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Stephen Colbert for president. ;)
I have little reservations about the actual parties but as far as specific candidates and media propaganda go, I prefer Obama to Bush and Fox News.

Either way you're getting a bag of lies every time you turn on the TV.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 11:03:19 AM by heresis »

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heresis

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #93 on: January 15, 2012, 09:22:43 AM »
Without individuals earning salaries, industry has nobody to make money from. Period. I can't understand why you seem to think that the private sector is just drawing wealth from the aether and government is destroying it, in reality the money is just circulating between the two. A cop gets his salary from taxes and spends it in the private sector. Their profits are then taxed by the government and used to pay the salary. At what point is wealth being magicked into reality in the private sector and destroyed in the public sector?

When did I say that people were "drawing wealth from the aether"? I never said that and for you to say it misrepresents my position. The point I was making was that a government itself cannot generate revenue.

Without industry pulling in money, what taxes would that cop get his paycheck from? Nowhere because there is no one to tax. In that case, the government would go under because they don't have enough money to support themselves. It may seem like magic to you, because you can't seem to grasp the basics of economics, but I assure you it isn't. You probably also think that our money is actually worth something. It isn't.

What is magic is the way the government can print money and cause inflation without the slightest resistance.

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Lorddave

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #94 on: January 15, 2012, 09:27:59 AM »
Without individuals earning salaries, industry has nobody to make money from. Period. I can't understand why you seem to think that the private sector is just drawing wealth from the aether and government is destroying it, in reality the money is just circulating between the two. A cop gets his salary from taxes and spends it in the private sector. Their profits are then taxed by the government and used to pay the salary. At what point is wealth being magicked into reality in the private sector and destroyed in the public sector?

When did I say that people were "drawing wealth from the aether"? I never said that and for you to say it misrepresents my position. The point I was making was that a government itself cannot generate revenue.

Without industry pulling in money, what taxes would that cop get his paycheck from? Nowhere because there is no one to tax. In that case, the government would go under because they don't have enough money to support themselves. It may seem like magic to you, because you can't seem to grasp the basics of economics, but I assure you it isn't. You probably also think that our money is actually worth something. It isn't.

What is magic is the way the government can print money and cause inflation without the slightest resistance.
Governments draw revenue from both businesses and people.  They provide the service of a good workforce, protection (both physical and legal), and a favorable environment to produce goods or services.

You can think of it as a landlord.  Landlords make money by providing housing to others, ensuring that everything works, providing parking, lights to make it safe to walk around at night, etc....
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General Douchebag

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #95 on: January 15, 2012, 09:38:50 AM »
Without individuals earning salaries, industry has nobody to make money from. Period. I can't understand why you seem to think that the private sector is just drawing wealth from the aether and government is destroying it, in reality the money is just circulating between the two. A cop gets his salary from taxes and spends it in the private sector. Their profits are then taxed by the government and used to pay the salary. At what point is wealth being magicked into reality in the private sector and destroyed in the public sector?

When did I say that people were "drawing wealth from the aether"? I never said that and for you to say it misrepresents my position. The point I was making was that a government itself cannot generate revenue.

Without industry pulling in money, what taxes would that cop get his paycheck from? Nowhere because there is no one to tax. In that case, the government would go under because they don't have enough money to support themselves. It may seem like magic to you, because you can't seem to grasp the basics of economics, but I assure you it isn't. You probably also think that our money is actually worth something. It isn't.

What is magic is the way the government can print money and cause inflation without the slightest resistance.

Where does industry "generate" the fucking revenue from? Is your tenuous grasp of economics so mired in political ideology you've stopped actually thinking about it? Is this what a true Paulbot is like, just repeating the same marginally-more-valid-than-Romney's talking points without any understanding of alternatives?
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>

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heresis

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #96 on: January 15, 2012, 10:52:20 AM »
Where does industry "generate" the fucking revenue from? Is your tenuous grasp of economics so mired in political ideology you've stopped actually thinking about it? Is this what a true Paulbot is like, just repeating the same marginally-more-valid-than-Romney's talking points without any understanding of alternatives?

Where did I say anything about Ron Paul or political ideologies in explaining how the economy works? Please try and pay attention this time, I grow weary of repeating myself. Industry pulls in a profit from the sale of goods and services. From that gross profit, the government takes money, this is called paying taxes. Still with me? Okay, so the government relies on industry to pull in a profit for them (the government) to receive money. Without industry the government HAS NO MONEY.

Let me ask you, how do you think the cop in your example gets paid?

You're either a good troll or you're just living up to your screen name.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #97 on: January 15, 2012, 11:17:48 AM »
Where does industry "generate" the fucking revenue from? Is your tenuous grasp of economics so mired in political ideology you've stopped actually thinking about it? Is this what a true Paulbot is like, just repeating the same marginally-more-valid-than-Romney's talking points without any understanding of alternatives?

Where did I say anything about Ron Paul or political ideologies in explaining how the economy works? Please try and pay attention this time, I grow weary of repeating myself. Industry pulls in a profit from the sale of goods and services. From that gross profit, the government takes money, this is called paying taxes. Still with me? Okay, so the government relies on industry to pull in a profit for them (the government) to receive money. Without industry the government HAS NO MONEY.

Let me ask you, how do you think the cop in your example gets paid?

You're either a good troll or you're just living up to your screen name.

You have repeated that several times already.  We understand that point.  We always did.  The question is, how is this any different from a job in the private sector?  Suppose I own a store, and most of my customers work in a local power plant.  My customers receive their wages from the plant, and they spend part of them in my store.  So I am making my money indirectly from the power plant.  If the plant were to suddenly shut down, I would most likely go out of business.

Does my job generate income?

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Lorddave

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #98 on: January 15, 2012, 11:31:47 AM »
Where does industry "generate" the fucking revenue from? Is your tenuous grasp of economics so mired in political ideology you've stopped actually thinking about it? Is this what a true Paulbot is like, just repeating the same marginally-more-valid-than-Romney's talking points without any understanding of alternatives?

Where did I say anything about Ron Paul or political ideologies in explaining how the economy works? Please try and pay attention this time, I grow weary of repeating myself. Industry pulls in a profit from the sale of goods and services. From that gross profit, the government takes money, this is called paying taxes. Still with me? Okay, so the government relies on industry to pull in a profit for them (the government) to receive money. Without industry the government HAS NO MONEY.

Let me ask you, how do you think the cop in your example gets paid?

You're either a good troll or you're just living up to your screen name.
Without customers, industry has no money.
What you have not realized is that the government doesn't get money for free.  They are no different than a business.  They provide something that industry needs.  Industry does not exist without people and people make government to govern themselves.

So in essence:
Industry needs government to survive as do the customers of the industry.  And both pay for services from the government to make their lives more profitable.
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heresis

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #99 on: January 15, 2012, 11:42:00 AM »
You have repeated that several times already.  We understand that point.  We always did.  The question is, how is this any different from a job in the private sector?  Suppose I own a store, and most of my customers work in a local power plant.  My customers receive their wages from the plant, and they spend part of them in my store.  So I am making my money indirectly from the power plant.  If the plant were to suddenly shut down, I would most likely go out of business.

Does my job generate income?

The original argument was about the government creating jobs. I said that government positions aren't considered "real" jobs because they are paid for by the private sector. The difference being that the government jobs are dependent on how robust the industry in a country is (more robust more tax dollars), whereas private sector jobs are excluded from this limitation and are only dependent on supply and demand, more or less. So creating a bunch of government jobs in a poor economic climate is detrimental to the welfare of that nation. That's the point I was trying to make.

Quote from: Lorddave
Without customers, industry has no money.
What you have not realized is that the government doesn't get money for free.  They are no different than a business.  They provide something that industry needs.  Industry does not exist without people and people make government to govern themselves.

So in essence:
Industry needs government to survive as do the customers of the industry.  And both pay for services from the government to make their lives more profitable.

Government ≠ People. As you said, a government is just a system that people create to govern themselves, it is incorrect to assert that without a government there can be no people. They are different than a business in that they aren't subject to supply and demand. A government usually has a treasury department that handles all monetary needs. It's different in our country because we have a private organization creating and inflating our money. Only in a Socialist or semi-Socialist state does the government provide services to the people (which are then subsidized by tax dollars).

What do governments provide to industry?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 11:49:02 AM by heresis »

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Lorddave

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #100 on: January 15, 2012, 12:16:22 PM »
Quote from: Lorddave
Without customers, industry has no money.
What you have not realized is that the government doesn't get money for free.  They are no different than a business.  They provide something that industry needs.  Industry does not exist without people and people make government to govern themselves.

So in essence:
Industry needs government to survive as do the customers of the industry.  And both pay for services from the government to make their lives more profitable.

Government ≠ People.
False.  A government without people is words on a piece of paper.  People run the government.  Without people in government, there would be no government.

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As you said, a government is just a system that people create to govern themselves, it is incorrect to assert that without a government there can be no people.
I said no such thing.  Please do not put words into my mouth. 

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They are different than a business in that they aren't subject to supply and demand.
Yes they are.  The demand for police protection in a city increases due to increase in crime.  The supply of police officers, however, is low.  As a result, residents move away, reducing the tax money of the local government, which in turn reduces the demand of police officers.  As businesses also leave, the demand decreases even more.
But a local government can't exist without people so incentives are created to get people to move back.  The city blocks are made more ascetically pleasing.  Taxes for businesses and property are lowered.
These are not the acts of a system that can create money without fear.  These are the acts of a business.

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A government usually has a treasury department that handles all monetary needs.
A business usually as an accounting department that handles all monetary needs.

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What do governments provide to industry?
Many things:
Land.
The right to gather resources.
Protection from unfair deals or damage.
Monetary protection from theft.  (FDIC)
Skilled labor force. (schools)
Stable currency.
Settling of disputes. (court system)
Safety.
And, a customer base.

Many of these things couldn't exist without a form of common law, common currency, and common culture.  If we lived in pure anarchy, a business owner could easily be murdered and all his possessions stolen.  He would have to spend goods or services (not money) to get protection from such things.  He would also have no protection should another business decide to stop him from conducting business by creating an unfair environment.  Like say... using force to keep a town from trading with someone.

But since government exists in something even as small as a family, to say that a world would exist without any government would be one where human civilization does not exist.
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heresis

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #101 on: January 15, 2012, 01:24:09 PM »
I said no such thing.  Please do not put words into my mouth.

Quote from: Lorddave
Industry does not exist without people and people make government to govern themselves.

Government is just that, a system which governs. That is what you said. My point was that your previous post made it seem like you were equating people with government as though both are necessary for their mutual existence. Yes, governments need people to run them, obviously, but people do not always organize into governments. There have been anarchic societies.

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Yes they are.  The demand for police protection in a city increases due to increase in crime.  The supply of police officers, however, is low.  As a result, residents move away, reducing the tax money of the local government, which in turn reduces the demand of police officers.  As businesses also leave, the demand decreases even more.
But a local government can't exist without people so incentives are created to get people to move back.  The city blocks are made more ascetically pleasing.  Taxes for businesses and property are lowered.
These are not the acts of a system that can create money without fear.  These are the acts of a business.

But that is all after the government has already taken tax dollars out of citizens checks to pay for the police department and to pay police officers to patrol and all that. A government without industry cannot open a police station or have officers on its payroll because it has no money. That's the difference.

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A business usually as an accounting department that handles all monetary needs.

Accounting departments don't print money.

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Many things:
Land.
The right to gather resources.
Protection from unfair deals or damage.
Monetary protection from theft.  (FDIC)
Skilled labor force. (schools)
Stable currency.
Settling of disputes. (court system)
Safety.
And, a customer base.

Many of these things couldn't exist without a form of common law, common currency, and common culture.  If we lived in pure anarchy, a business owner could easily be murdered and all his possessions stolen.  He would have to spend goods or services (not money) to get protection from such things.  He would also have no protection should another business decide to stop him from conducting business by creating an unfair environment.  Like say... using force to keep a town from trading with someone.

But since government exists in something even as small as a family, to say that a world would exist without any government would be one where human civilization does not exist.
[/quote]

If we were in pure anarchy I think things would be a lot different, for instance, the shop owner in your example would probably be heavily armed anyway.

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General Douchebag

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #102 on: January 15, 2012, 01:42:58 PM »
government jobs are dependent on how robust the industry in a country is (more robust more tax dollars), whereas private sector jobs are excluded from this limitation and are only dependent on supply and demand, more or less.

Are you saying that a bad economy doesn't result in people losing jobs in the private sector?
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>

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heresis

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #103 on: January 15, 2012, 01:44:40 PM »
Are you saying that a bad economy doesn't result in people losing jobs in the private sector?

The point I was making is that industry doesn't rely on tax dollars to exist as government does.

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General Douchebag

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #104 on: January 15, 2012, 01:50:14 PM »
Are you saying that a bad economy doesn't result in people losing jobs in the private sector?

The point I was making is that industry doesn't rely on tax dollars to exist as government does.

No, it relies on profit dollars instead. I really don't see why tax and sales are so dissonant in your mind, they're both just revenue for different organisations.
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>

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Lorddave

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #105 on: January 15, 2012, 06:22:49 PM »
I said no such thing.  Please do not put words into my mouth.

Quote from: Lorddave
Industry does not exist without people and people make government to govern themselves.

Government is just that, a system which governs. That is what you said. My point was that your previous post made it seem like you were equating people with government as though both are necessary for their mutual existence. Yes, governments need people to run them, obviously, but people do not always organize into governments. There have been anarchic societies.
Yes, I said people make governments.  Thus, people must exist BEFORE governments.  Sheesh.  And I said later down that they create governments to make their lives better.

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Yes they are.  The demand for police protection in a city increases due to increase in crime.  The supply of police officers, however, is low.  As a result, residents move away, reducing the tax money of the local government, which in turn reduces the demand of police officers.  As businesses also leave, the demand decreases even more.
But a local government can't exist without people so incentives are created to get people to move back.  The city blocks are made more ascetically pleasing.  Taxes for businesses and property are lowered.
These are not the acts of a system that can create money without fear.  These are the acts of a business.

But that is all after the government has already taken tax dollars out of citizens checks to pay for the police department and to pay police officers to patrol and all that. A government without industry cannot open a police station or have officers on its payroll because it has no money. That's the difference.
Actually no.
You are forgetting the origin.  Police don't just maigcally appear out of nowhere.  Nor do towns.  Nor states.  A need must first exist.  So lets take the Old West in America.  Before the gold rush, it was mostly Indian territory as well as a hiding place for outlaws.  Once gold was discovered in various areas, the influx of people increased the population significantly.  As a result, people needed some form of law to protect themselves so they voted for a sheriff. 
So, sheriffs were created where there was a need, then paid by the people in the form of taxes.
So what if the sheriff didn't get his first paycheck until a month later?  He still got paid.  Do YOU get paid the day you're hired?

Eventually it was written into law by the states to have a sheriff, but the origin was one of people simply creating the sheriff first, then paying him with tax money.  All that without any real industry: just people mining for gold.

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A business usually as an accounting department that handles all monetary needs.

Accounting departments don't print money.
And as you print more money it devalues.  What's your point?

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Quote
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Many things:
Land.
The right to gather resources.
Protection from unfair deals or damage.
Monetary protection from theft.  (FDIC)
Skilled labor force. (schools)
Stable currency.
Settling of disputes. (court system)
Safety.
And, a customer base.

Many of these things couldn't exist without a form of common law, common currency, and common culture.  If we lived in pure anarchy, a business owner could easily be murdered and all his possessions stolen.  He would have to spend goods or services (not money) to get protection from such things.  He would also have no protection should another business decide to stop him from conducting business by creating an unfair environment.  Like say... using force to keep a town from trading with someone.

But since government exists in something even as small as a family, to say that a world would exist without any government would be one where human civilization does not exist.

If we were in pure anarchy I think things would be a lot different, for instance, the shop owner in your example would probably be heavily armed anyway.
Correct.
Then what would stop him from forcing people to buy his things?  Heavily armed citizens.

But we've seen, time and time again that even in a completely lawless area, whenever a group of people live, they create laws to govern themselves.  Maybe they're just "do whatever Pa says" but that's a form of government. 
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #106 on: January 16, 2012, 01:35:23 PM »
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In what way? He's already removed 100,000 troops keeping to his combat withdrawal schedule.

His campaign promise said he would remove all troops in Iraq by 2009. How is that on schedule? Also, he only removed "combat troops", US soldiers are still there.

He made a distinction between the combat mission and the rebuilding process. Using his definitions of 'combat troops' and 'non-combat' troops (which he established and was using prior to winning the election), he did withdraw that military force. If I recall, combat troops were charged with the responsibility of cleaning the remnants of the previous regimes and command hierarchy. Non-combat troops are the military presence given the task of protecting diplomats and infrastructure experts from civil war guerrilla attacks, as well as training and preparing Iraqi security forces. When he made this promise, I thought it was clear that we'd still have some form of military presence in Iraq. Trying to build a governing system in Iraq without a presence, never even occurred to me.

In fact, I never expected we would ever have absolutely zero military presence in Iraq. Misunderstanding end-of-war-time goals and precedented military procedures is a good way to be disappointed. The US rarely left a country we've had a solid military presence in without establishing permanent military bases. In non-classified instances of US military deployment alone, we have our fingers in over 150 countries around the world.
If you expected every US troop to be out of Iraq, this was inevitable.

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Again, he promised he would close it within six months of being elected. Whether it was his fault or not, he shouldn't make promises he can't guarantee.
He could have had the Senate haven't blocked him repeatedly by passing contrary bills. Should his campaign speech have added, "Assuming congress isn't a gigantic dick, I can do x in y amount of time"?

I guess I just don't why see his reputation should suffer for not being omniscient. That delay only really affects my opinion of a many certain members of Congress.
And if you still say he shouldn't make promises he can't guarantee, then consider that there are no guarantees.

If someone says they can run 50 meters in 6 seconds, and someone steers an elephant onto the track, who do you blame when he is late to the goal line? I don't see it as the runner's shortcoming.

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Why do you have a problem with the word illegal? The PATRIOT Act is just that, it has the power to over rule the Fourth Amendment. Any law that supersedes the Constitution is null and void.
I see your point which is why I planned to drop this tangent, but citizens don't determine what is or isn't legal.

Even if it's obvious to us that this act conflicts with the constitution, enacted laws are not dependent on civil interpretation. In order to actually be found unconstitutional (and therefore illegal), the judicial branch must declare it as such. Laws don't have to be fair, just, or even logically consistent but they are still technically laws. It's just a preference for the technical definition of illegality over the practical use.

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I just listed it as another reason for why I dislike the guy.
You're allowed.

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Either way you're getting a bag of lies every time you turn on the TV.
Yes, both parties are always guilty of smearing the others. Accuracy of information is always something to check, but I also believe that accurate information-outlets exist. Ironically, I trust The Daily Show much more than Fox News when it comes to getting clean impartial editing of recent events.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 03:26:51 PM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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General Disarray

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #107 on: January 16, 2012, 06:33:04 PM »
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #108 on: January 20, 2012, 02:06:40 AM »
Ron Paul is the only candidate saying the truth.

Oh God, here we go.

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He's also the only candidate that's been consistent in his views for over 30 years, who else can say that?

Plenty of people can, actually.  We call them zealots.

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He wants to restore our republic to the state it was in when it was founded in the way the founding fathers wanted it.

Disregarding the fact that your last point is obviously speculation, you are correct insofar as that is what Paul wants.  It would be interesting to see how many of Paul's fanboys actually know this about him.  Also, I'm not sure how Paul would even be able to do that as president.

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He's going to end our overly-aggressive foreign intervention policy

Fair enough, he has said that.  It's also pretty much the only issue that most of his fanboys actually know his position on.  You, of course, are one of the exceptions.

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and stamp out the fascism that is slowly creeping in through the illegalization of abortion and other religion-based laws.

...no comment.

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Right now, Ron Paul is the only candidate that can restore America, all the rest are career politicians that are only in it for themselves.

Yes, the others are career politicians.  They are not to be trusted.  It is only Ron Paul, the man who has spent thirty years in Congress, who can save our nation now.  Truly, he is our Jesus.


ALL HAIL RON PAUL

damn u are anoyng:) one of those who would rather redicule people insted of respecting others viewpoints!!
u are a sheep and u want to stay a sheep... fine do so!! but it is easy to see how scared and supressed u are... lol... go watch some porn ore mainstream news instead of the shit u are pulling off in here....

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #109 on: January 20, 2012, 03:33:30 AM »
Cool story, bro.

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Lorddave

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #110 on: January 20, 2012, 03:35:45 AM »
Lol.
2 post noob can't form counter arguments or spell 'you'.
Gone.

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johnson17

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #111 on: January 20, 2012, 06:39:42 PM »
Dr. Paul needs to be elected president. Give me one reason why not.

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General Disarray

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #112 on: January 20, 2012, 10:49:29 PM »
Dr. Paul needs to be elected president. Give me one reason why not.

Because he would destroy many domestic programs which benefit the lower/middle class if given the opportunity.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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Wakka Wakka

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #113 on: January 21, 2012, 02:00:50 PM »
Dr. Paul needs to be elected president. Give me one reason why not.
Because he would bring back key factors of Reaganomics and trickle-down economics.
Normally when I'm not sure I just cop a feel.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #114 on: January 21, 2012, 10:18:16 PM »
Dr. Paul needs to be elected president. Give me one reason why not.
Because e
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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General Disarray

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #115 on: January 22, 2012, 10:05:47 PM »
I just asked my (assumed conservative, we never really talked about politics) parents who they plan to vote for. I will try to convince them to vote for Paul.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #116 on: January 22, 2012, 11:50:27 PM »
Out of sheer curiosity, what is the main (Most popular? Most valid? You decide!) argument against Ron Paul? I don't know about enough him to support or oppose him.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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theonlydann

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #117 on: January 23, 2012, 04:09:58 AM »
Out of sheer curiosity, what is the main (Most popular? Most valid? You decide!) argument against Ron Paul? I don't know about enough him to support or oppose him.
His policies would be impossible to implement and would also cause massive death in the US due to sheer what the fuckitude  and government job loss. He would also make other countries sad with isolationist policies.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #118 on: January 23, 2012, 07:38:01 AM »
Ugh, I wish Paul supporters would stop piously referring to him as "Dr. Paul."  Yes, he's a doctor.  That doesn't automatically qualify him to be the president.  It's a dishonest way of trying to subliminally give him more credibility.

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Particle Person

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Re: Ron Paul
« Reply #119 on: January 23, 2012, 07:40:16 AM »
Ugh, I wish Paul supporters would stop piously referring to him as "Dr. Paul."  Yes, he's a doctor.  That doesn't automatically qualify him to be the president.  It's a dishonest way of trying to subliminally give him more credibility.

If he's a doctor, he should be referred to as such.