Genderless parenting

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Chris Spaghetti

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Genderless parenting
« on: May 24, 2011, 08:03:10 AM »
Two parents in Canada have taken an unusual route to parenting their third child by not revealing the gender.

The baby's name is 'Storm' (Which reminds me of Tim Minchin's great beat-poem) and apart from a few very close family members, nobody knows whether the baby's a boy or a girl.

The parents have both experimented with gender and don't believe in the restrictive roles that society expects that boys and girls should adhere to.

What do you think, FES? is this a good idea to let a child grow up without societal impositions on whom they 'should' be, or is it just alienating and needlessly politicising their kid?

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2011, 09:39:18 AM »
I think he/she is too young to really experience social restrictions. Whether or not I'm concerned is a function of how long they plan on keeping this up. Also, I think naming their kid Storm already will put a social burden on him/her.

And I think of X-men.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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Jack1704

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2011, 11:03:48 AM »
I hate people like this.
Stop all this nonesense and bring on the lapdancers.
I understand Jack1704. It's a Brit thing.

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General Douchebag

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2011, 11:32:41 AM »
Interesting as a thought experiment, but that kid is going to have a hell of a time in society.
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>

Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2011, 12:32:38 PM »
Cheesus is so wise I sometimes think he's my alt.
CheesusCrust is wise.

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Wendy

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2011, 12:59:46 PM »
I think he/she is too young to really experience social restrictions. Whether or not I'm concerned is a function of how long they plan on keeping this up. Also, I think naming their kid Storm already will put a social burden on him/her.

And I think of X-men.

How fitting, since X-men is a parable for homosexuality. Not saying that homosexuality is a gender issue of course, but these things are loosely interconnected. Anyway, Storm is going to have a tough time with physical education and school restrooms at the very least, and simply making friends is going to be problematic in a worst case scenario. Growing up, I saw a lot of gender roles being enforced quite hardly from the pupils in my school. Girls didn't get to play soccer with the boys, some restrooms were for boys only and vice versa, despite there being no policy on this, and the genders were generally very segregated.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2011, 01:02:08 PM »
This is ridiculous.  I'm all for transgender rights, but to suggest that societal influences on an individual determine gender roles is nonsense.  What will inevitably happen is that at he or she grows older, the child will identify with his or her "correct" gender.

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Wendy

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2011, 01:38:25 PM »
And that has nothing to do with societal influences, I'm sure.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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Hazbollah

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2011, 02:08:18 PM »
But if it has a dick and talks with a deeper voice, it will know it's a lad. I honestly have no idea what this is meant to achieve.
Always check your tackle- Caerphilly school of Health. If I see an innuendo in my post, I'll be sure to whip it out.

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Eddy Baby

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2011, 02:22:59 PM »
I guess the idea is that gender is arguably bestowed on a child in its first couple of years.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2011, 02:31:28 PM »
The idea from their point of view is to let the child develop its own sense of gender. If families know their a boy then they'll start to buy them male-oriented presents, blue clothes etc which then reinforces in the child's mind that society expects them to live up to male gender archetypes

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Wendy

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2011, 02:32:37 PM »
Even though the blue clothes do absolutely fuck-all except for letting other people know it's a boy and react accordingly. I also hear that the gender-based colours were flipped up until fairly recently.(read: 100 years or so ago.) I'm not sure if this is simply an urban myth, though.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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Hazbollah

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2011, 02:43:24 PM »
The idea from their point of view is to let the child develop its own sense of gender. If families know their a boy then they'll start to buy them male-oriented presents, blue clothes etc which then reinforces in the child's mind that society expects them to live up to male gender archetypes
But gender is a fact of life, a matter of chance. If a child is a boy or a girl, it should be treated accordingly. Why try to change your nature?
Always check your tackle- Caerphilly school of Health. If I see an innuendo in my post, I'll be sure to whip it out.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2011, 03:11:16 PM »
The idea from their point of view is to let the child develop its own sense of gender. If families know their a boy then they'll start to buy them male-oriented presents, blue clothes etc which then reinforces in the child's mind that society expects them to live up to male gender archetypes
But gender is a fact of life, a matter of chance. If a child is a boy or a girl, it should be treated accordingly. Why try to change your nature?

Because gender roles are at least as much dependant on society as nature. Why should we expect boys to want to play with bulldozer toys and girls to play with dress-up dolls, for instance? The reason we have so few women in science and engineering roles is partly due to the gender archetypes we try to make kids fit into.

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Jack1704

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2011, 03:53:34 PM »
Interesting as a thought experiment, but that kid is going to have a hell of a time in society.
Agreed mate. They are projecting their feelings/desires/beliefs on to another person who will never be able to make a choice on this for quite some time and ultimately screw the main years of their life up.

Probably not going to get parent of the year award. In fact Joseph Fritzl is odds on compaed to them.
Stop all this nonesense and bring on the lapdancers.
I understand Jack1704. It's a Brit thing.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2011, 04:26:56 PM »
And that has nothing to do with societal influences, I'm sure.

Which is why I italicized "individual".

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2011, 04:49:07 PM »
I doubt they'll be able to keep the kids gender a secret long enough for it to do any damage. 
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Eddy Baby

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2011, 05:54:00 PM »
Normally when I'm not sure I just cop a feel.

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parsec

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2011, 08:12:10 PM »

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Vindictus

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2011, 08:24:13 PM »
I don't see the point in it.

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Wakka Wakka

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2011, 10:54:10 PM »
Normally when I'm not sure I just cop a feel.
Normally when I'm not sure I just cop a feel.

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Wendy

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2011, 11:02:49 PM »
lol, Son-Goku.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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sillyrob

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2011, 11:20:51 PM »
Normally when I'm not sure I just cop a feel.
Nice, groping 1 year olds!

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Horatio

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2011, 03:34:33 AM »
I wish my parents had decided to use me as part of a social experiment too.

Quote
Jazz — soft-spoken, with a slight frame and curious brown eyes — keeps his hair long, preferring to wear it in three braids, two in the front and one in the back, even though both his parents have close-cropped hair. His favourite colour is pink, although his parents don’t own a piece of pink clothing between them. He loves to paint his fingernails and wears a sparkly pink stud in one ear, despite the fact his parents wear no nail polish or jewelry.

Kio keeps his curly blond hair just below his chin. The 2-year-old loves purple, although he’s happiest in any kind of pyjama pants.

“As a result, Jazz and now Kio are almost exclusively assumed to be girls,” says Stocker, adding he and Witterick don’t out them. It’s the boys’ choice whether they want to offer a correction.

On a recent trip to High Park, Jazz, wearing pink shorts, patterned pink socks and brightly coloured elastics on his braids, runs and skips across the street.

“That’s a princess!” says a smiling crossing guard, ushering the little boy along. “And that’s a princess, too,” she says again, pointing at Kio with her big red sign.

Jazz doesn’t mind. One of his favourite books is 10,000 Dresses, the story of a boy who loves to dress up. But he doesn’t like being called a girl. Recently, he asked his mom to write a note on his application to the High Park Nature Centre because he likes the group leaders and wants them to know he’s a boy.

Jazz was old enough for school last September, but chose to stay home. “When we would go and visit programs, people — children and adults — would immediately react with Jazz over his gender,” says Witterick, adding the conversation would gravitate to his choice of pink or his hairstyle.

That’s mostly why he doesn’t want to go to school. When asked if it upsets him, he nods, but doesn’t say more.

Instead he grabs a handmade portfolio filled with his drawings and poems. In its pages is a booklet written under his pseudonym, the “Gender Explorer.” In purple and pink lettering, adorned with butterflies, it reads: “Help girls do boy things. Help boys do girl things. Let your kid be whoever they are!”
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 04:16:04 AM by Horatio »
How dare you have the audacity to demand my deposition. I've never even heard of you.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2011, 03:54:55 AM »
As far as the parents are concerned the bullying and assumptions that he's a girl are purely society's fault. Why, just because he likes to dress and act in a way which is traditionally seen as 'girly,' should it be OK to make fun of and bully him?

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Eddy Baby

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2011, 04:24:49 AM »
I used to be mistaken for a girl as a child, and look at me now.

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Wendy

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2011, 07:35:56 AM »
When I was a toddler, people assumed I was a girl. then my mother had my thick, curly hair cut short because she grew tired of correcting them. Also, how is a child genderless if he as a boy almost exclusively likes girly things? That is the picture the article is painting about the elder of the brothers, anyway.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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Hazbollah

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2011, 09:45:16 AM »
As far as the parents are concerned the bullying and assumptions that he's a girl are purely society's fault. Why, just because he likes to dress and act in a way which is traditionally seen as 'girly,' should it be OK to make fun of and bully him?
Well, the way I see it, genders have specific roles within society. This is the reason they exist the way they do. If a man acts like a woman (swooning at the sight of some daffodils or shit like that) then yes, it is fine to make fun of him because it is quite amusing. Likewise if a woman acts like a man.
Always check your tackle- Caerphilly school of Health. If I see an innuendo in my post, I'll be sure to whip it out.

Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2011, 09:48:34 AM »
It's not amusing if a woman acts like a man. It's just plain scary.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Genderless parenting
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2011, 10:10:04 AM »
I'm always swooning at the sight of daffodils.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.