So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!

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So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« on: February 16, 2011, 12:33:59 PM »
I've circumnavigated the globe twice. Once by boat, and once by plane. I've started at one point (California by plane, Australia by boat), and ended up at the exact same place after traveling the entire way around the globe. This is possible because the earth is round. I find it very difficult to believe that Flat Earthers really think their theory cannot be disproved, when they could sail around the world and see it for themselves! There are no guards keeping you from getting to the edge. Only penguins. I do not even want to start debating Flat Earthers about stars, because it seems to be totally useless presenting facts, but I urge you to look into the FACT that thousands of people have circumnavigated the globe. Even tourists:

http://www.quarkexpeditions.com/arctic-expeditions/arctic-circumnavigation-world-cruise/itinerary

http://www.cruisevacationcenter.com/articles/holland_america_50th_anniversary.htm

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2011, 12:54:05 PM »
Ah, another sailor astronomer scientist. Put him with the others.
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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2011, 01:03:13 PM »
What does that mean? Anyone who has actually proved to themselves that the earth is indeed round gets banished? Because facts are irrelevant? That makes no sense. I've sailed around the world. Fact.

This is all a joke, right? It's got to be. You guys are good. I guess I fell for it, but you guys are laughing it up. Kudos.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2011, 01:05:16 PM »
Quote
http://www.quarkexpeditions.com/arctic-expeditions/arctic-circumnavigation-world-cruise/itinerary

Eastwards and Westwards circumnavigation like that is possible on a Flat Earth.

In the Flat Earth model the earth is laid out in a manner similar to the United Nations logo.



North is Hubwards, South is Rimwards, East is Turnwise, and West is Widdershins.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 01:08:01 PM by Tom Bishop »

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IOA

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2011, 01:12:34 PM »
...However, it's still not explained how you can travel "rimwards" and still circumnavigate the Earth. Have you done this, Ernie?

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Ski

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2011, 01:13:38 PM »
Quote from: FAQ
Remember, the northern point on the compass is pointing toward the center of the Earth. If you follow your compass due east or due west, ending up at the same point you started from, you have just gone around the world in a circle. Thus, circumnavigation is possible on FE.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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IOA

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2011, 01:17:23 PM »
Quote from: FAQ
Remember, the northern point on the compass is pointing toward the center of the Earth. If you follow your compass due east or due west, ending up at the same point you started from, you have just gone around the world in a circle. Thus, circumnavigation is possible on FE.

...However, it's still not explained how you can travel "rimwards" and still circumnavigate the Earth.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2011, 01:21:20 PM »
...However, it's still not explained how you can travel "rimwards" and still circumnavigate the Earth.

Look at the path Lincoln Ellsworth took on his supposed crossing of Antarctica

From http://www.south-pole.com/p0000110.htm -



It looks like he just crossed a peninsula off the coast of Antarctica; not the mainland itself.

Perhaps these supposed crossings of Antarctica are really a matter of crossing a peninsula sticking out of the Antarctic mainland.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 03:54:06 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2011, 01:31:22 PM »
But I've also flown all the way around the world! And using a compass, GPS, and seeing the earth myself, I've seen that if you start in one place and fly due whatever, you'll make your way back again! You can talk about flat maps and whatnot when it comes to sailing, but how can you possibly deny the thousands of people who have flown all the way around the world?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2011, 01:34:36 PM »
But I've also flown all the way around the world! And using a compass, GPS, and seeing the earth myself, I've seen that if you start in one place and fly due whatever, you'll make your way back again! You can talk about flat maps and whatnot when it comes to sailing, but how can you possibly deny the thousands of people who have flown all the way around the world?

East/West circumnavigation is possible on the Flat Earth model. Scroll up and look at the United Nations map again. When you travel Eastwards your compass is at a right angle to North; hence Eastwards travel would curve around the North Pole and bring you back where you started.

As an analogy, imagine that you are standing twenty feet from the North Pole. If you travel Eastwards where will your path take you?

That's right. Your path takes you in a circle around the North Pole.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 01:45:22 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2011, 01:50:33 PM »
That makes no sense whatsoever. You don't even know how a compass works!

If I take off from Los Angeles and travel due West, I will return to Los Angeles. By your logic, I would really be flying in a circle, not flying straight. But every navigation device in the plane says otherwise!

I give up. You guys are either serious jokers, and if so, you rule, you totally are the greatest; or you're so delusional for absolutely no reason at all. You don't know why this conspiracy is in place, it doesn't have anything to do with your religion, from what I can tell, and your FAQ actually states that you believe the earth is flat because that's what you see!

(Why am I even wasting time on this site????)

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Ski

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2011, 01:53:26 PM »
...However, it's still not explained how you can travel "rimwards" and still circumnavigate the Earth.

I don't know that it's been shown you can travel "rimwards" and still circumnavigate the Earth. A thought experiment is worth little here. It's akin to me saying: "RET has not explained how one may travel 'south' and not end up heading 'north.'"


That makes no sense whatsoever. You don't even know how a compass works!

If I take off from Los Angeles and travel due West, I will return to Los Angeles. By your logic, I would really be flying in a circle, not flying straight. But every navigation device in the plane says otherwise!

Even if the earth were round, one's route would be in a circle not straight.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Tom Bishop

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2011, 01:54:27 PM »
That makes no sense whatsoever. You don't even know how a compass works!

If I take off from Los Angeles and travel due West, I will return to Los Angeles. By your logic, I would really be flying in a circle, not flying straight. But every navigation device in the plane says otherwise!

Yep, you would be traveling in a circle.

The RET model is no different. You're also traveling in a circle when you travel Westwards on a Round Earth. East and West are also curved in the Round Earth model. They're not straight.

Imagine that you are standing on top of a Round Earth, twenty feet from the North Pole. If you decide to travel Westwards continuously, where will your path take you?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 01:57:03 PM by Tom Bishop »

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IOA

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2011, 02:27:12 PM »
I don't know that it's been shown you can travel "rimwards" and still circumnavigate the Earth.

It has. Look up the Transglobe Expedition.
Quote from: Ski
A thought experiment is worth little here.

Maybe, but you can't substitute a thought experiment for what actually happened.

Also, Tom, in regards to this:

Quote
It looks like he just crossed a peninsula off the coast of Antarctica; not the mainland itself.

Ranulph Fiennes (who participated in the Transglobe Expedition) crossed the mainland of Antarctica.


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Tom Bishop

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2011, 03:30:38 PM »
I don't know that it's been shown you can travel "rimwards" and still circumnavigate the Earth.

It has. Look up the Transglobe Expedition.
Quote from: Ski
A thought experiment is worth little here.

Maybe, but you can't substitute a thought experiment for what actually happened.

Also, Tom, in regards to this:

Quote
It looks like he just crossed a peninsula off the coast of Antarctica; not the mainland itself.

Ranulph Fiennes (who participated in the Transglobe Expedition) crossed the mainland of Antarctica.

http://www.transglobe-expedition.org/images/expedition/antarctic/globe-lrg.jpg

Really? He took that exact path? How do we know that he didn't just cross a peninsula on the coast of Antarctica like the others?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 03:39:14 PM by Tom Bishop »

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IOA

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2011, 03:33:17 PM »
You know what, I bet he just trolled everybody. It's not like the guy hasn't climbed Mount Everest or walked unaided to the Arctic before.

...

What makes you think he did anything other than what he said he did?

Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2011, 03:34:20 PM »
You know what, I bet he just trolled everybody. It's not like the guy hasn't climbed Mount Everest or walked unaided to the Arctic before.

...

What makes you think he did anything other than what he said he did?

What he did contradicts the flat earth theory. Flat earth believers deny things that do that.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2011, 03:39:19 PM »
It's easy to trick yourself into believing that the earth is a globe on such an excursion.

Say that you were an Antarctic explorer who believed that the earth was round. You travel Southwards until you hit 90 degrees south. You proclaim that you have reached the South Pole and set up camp for the night. What do you do the next morning? If you believe that you are on a globe you follow the sun Northwards. You cannot go South of the South Pole after all.

Under FET if you traveled Northwards towards the sun after hitting 90 degrees South you would just turn right back around.

It's possible that these explorers who claim to have reached the South Pole traveled inland to 90 degrees and then traveled Northwards again, under the belief that were are on a globe earth, telling everyone back home that they had "crossed Antarctica".
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 03:43:26 PM by Tom Bishop »

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IOA

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2011, 03:43:22 PM »
Do you have any evidence whatsoever that that is what took place? Furthermore, if such an explanation is so easily accepted by you, why couldn't any of the other longitudinal circumnavigaters have made a similar mistake and actually did travel on the mainland?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2011, 03:48:04 PM »
Do you have any evidence whatsoever that that is what took place?

Through deductive reasoning.

You are an explorer who believes that he is on the underside of a Round Earth traveling Southwards across the featureless tundra of Antarctica. What direction will you head once you hit 90 degrees South? You're going to go North, right? That's the only way you can go on an RE after all.

In FET traveling Northwards at 90 degrees South takes you back to the ocean and habitable areas.

Quote
Furthermore, if such an explanation is so easily accepted by you, why couldn't any of the other longitudinal circumnavigaters have made a similar mistake and actually did travel on the mainland?

It's likely that the others would make the same mistake.

Even if they tried to travel the opposite direction they came in at, the moment they looked at their compass and at the sky they would see that they were traveling in the wrong direction and adjust their path towards the North and towards the sun accordingly, believing that they were on a globe and that North was the most appropriate direction to travel after hitting 90o S.

The error stems from believing that the earth is a globe.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 04:06:04 PM by Tom Bishop »

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2011, 03:58:39 PM »
What does that mean? Anyone who has actually proved to themselves that the earth is indeed round gets banished?
No, it means we get people who claim to be astronomers/sailors/pilots every other day. It's quite shocking that they still keep coming!

Because facts are irrelevant?
What facts?

I've sailed around the world. Fact.
Evidence?

This is all a joke, right? It's got to be. You guys are good. I guess I fell for it, but you guys are laughing it up. Kudos.
I assure you most of us are dead serious.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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markjo

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2011, 04:15:42 PM »
In FET traveling Northwards at 90 degrees South takes you back to the ocean and habitable areas.

But the magical, musical question is "at 90 degrees south, where does traveling south take you on a FE?"  Also, how would you know when you hit 90 degrees south?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 04:17:25 PM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2011, 04:30:24 PM »
Quote
But the magical, musical question is "at 90 degrees south, where does traveling south take you on a FE?"

If you traveled the opposite way you came and continued on a straight path, without adjusting your path in any way through a compass or the sun, you would die in the infinite tundra of Antarctica.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 04:39:08 PM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2011, 04:53:52 PM »
Quote
But the magical, musical question is "at 90 degrees south, where does traveling south take you on a FE?"

If you traveled the opposite way you came and continued on a straight path, without adjusting your path in any way through a compass or the sun, you would die in the infinite tundra of Antarctica.

That's nice, but doesn't answer my question (you do that a lot, don't you?).  During the Antarctic summer, the sun is above the horizon for a significant part of the day so navigation should be possible.  So, how would you know when you reach (the equivalent of) 91 degrees south latitude?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Around And About

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2011, 05:17:02 PM »
Man, what a polarizing topic!

Haha, no but seriously I have nothing to add, except that I am observing a rigorous adherence to the Zetetic Method in this thread. Supporting conjecture must be put forth in place of any opposing firsthand accounts, which in any case may be readily dismissed as inaccurate (intentionally so or otherwise). When presented with evidence, they will ask for proof. If anything resembling proof is put forth, it must be necessarily a deception, because all evidence must support FET because the world is flat. It is the very same mindset of a typical theist*, who firstly asserts the existence of a deity and so must "logically" embrace supporting evidence and reject all else.

It is essentially a reversal of the Scientific Method and this all supports the idea that FET is a faith-based belief structure and unrelated to any real scientific framework (see also: Creationism).

In conclusion, in the world of RET and traditional science, we (ideally) begin with the premise that we know nothing. In the world of FET, we begin with the premise that the world is flat.

* One such group, for example, has Jesus and the Bible; the other has Rowbotham and his book.
I'm not black nor a thug, I'm more like god who will bring 7 plagues of flat earth upon your ass.

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IOA

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2011, 05:23:55 PM »
I think I've made my point.

Me: How does circumnavigation among longitudes work in FE?
FE-ers: Doesn't happen.
Me: This guy did it.
FE-ers: Didn't happen.

Really?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2011, 07:19:29 PM »
Quote
But the magical, musical question is "at 90 degrees south, where does traveling south take you on a FE?"

If you traveled the opposite way you came and continued on a straight path, without adjusting your path in any way through a compass or the sun, you would die in the infinite tundra of Antarctica.

That's nice

No, it's not.

Quote
During the Antarctic summer, the sun is above the horizon for a significant part of the day so navigation should be possible.  So, how would you know when you reach (the equivalent of) 91 degrees south latitude?

There are numerous ways one can find one's latitude. Perhaps you should read more.

In conclusion, in the world of RET and traditional science, we (ideally) begin with the premise that we know nothing. In the world of FET, we begin with the premise that the world is flat.

If you guys start with the premise that you know nothing, why do you keep presenting NASA's claims as truth without knowing firsthand?

I think I've made my point.

Me: How does circumnavigation among longitudes work in FE?
FE-ers: Doesn't happen.
Me: This guy did it.
FE-ers: Didn't happen.

Really?

I've presented a perfectly plausible argument for how an explorer can be misled by RET into tracking back to the coast and thinking that he had performed a crossing of Antarctica.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 07:24:45 PM by Tom Bishop »

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IOA

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2011, 07:34:40 PM »
I've presented a perfectly plausible argument for how an explorer can be misled by RET into tracking back to the coast and thinking that he had performed a crossing of Antarctica.
Okay. So it's completely plausible that Rowbotham was wrong about a Flat Earth then. There are books published about both people.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2011, 07:35:59 PM »
I've presented a perfectly plausible argument for how an explorer can be misled by RET into tracking back to the coast and thinking that he had performed a crossing of Antarctica.
Okay. So it's completely plausible that Rowbotham was wrong about a Flat Earth then. There are books published about both people.

Rowbotham is only one person.

Please don't clutter the thread with poor sentence structure.

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IOA

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Re: So No One Has Flown or Sailed Around the World? I Have!
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2011, 07:38:43 PM »
I suggest you lurk around rif for a bit. I was referring to Ranulph and Rowbotham. There are books documenting both of their "experiments". If Ranulph is fallible due to a possibility for error, why is Rowbotham not?