I'll test bendy light theory

Hi everyone. My goal with this experiment is to determinate if light bends or not, and if actually bends i'll provide some data about how it bends.

So, what's the big idea? Well, lasers, again. But i'm not testing the laser path, i'm testing its luminosity. I'll explain, in little words, how a laser works:

Usually they have two mirrors faced each other, one is perfectly reflexive, and the other lets some light going trough it. This is the "resonant cavity". The light is generated by the "amplificating medium" (i'm not sure this is the right expression in english) wich is between the mirrors. This medium, wisely chossen, is capable of "amplificate" light that "hits" it's atoms. The more light travels trough this medium the more is amplificated. That's why this medium lies between the mirrors, so the light can travel trough this medium lots of times. The semi-transparent mirror lets some of this light escape and that's what we can see coming out of the laser. This is a very simple explanation, if anyone want to know more about lasers wikipedia will do the job.

Now let's consider bendy light theory. Light inside the laser bounces millions of times in the mirrors, and if it's path is bended surely it will hit, sometime, the wall of the cavity. Say that it bounced six times before escaping the mirrors and hitting the wall. Say that withouth bendy light it would bounce 10 times before escaping the mirrors (wich are impossible to align perfectly) (also, when I say 6, i could say 600000000, it's an example). Every time the light hits the semi-transparent mirror some of its intensity escapes. Therefore the intensity of a laser it's not the same with bendy light or without it. We should detect more intensity without bendy light.

Now let's test this theory. How to make a laser "invisible" to bendy light? Easy: facing it vertically. The light will be bouncing up and down in the cavity between the mirrors. This is the direction that lights bends on, therefore light will not bend and will bounce 10 times (example) before hitting the wall of the cavity. If we hold the laser horizontally bendy light phenomena will be at it's maximum, and we'll see 6 bounces. Therefore I claim that:

If I measure the laser's luminosity in both cases I will obtain different values, being higher the vertical one. If I get the same values that means that light does not bend

Following there is my idea with paint (click on the image):

http://www.mypicx.com/03212010/bendy_light/

I can easily make the experiment with my lab's equipment (well, university one's) and provide photos, etc. All I need to know is if it will be accepted as a proof of the existence or not of bendy light. So FE and RE people are welcome to suggest what changes or improvements can be done to make this a real and valuable attack to the bendy light dilema.

As always, sorry about my english. I'm spanish. If something is not well explained, let me know.

Bye

Good idea! If your experiment proves positive, I'll get the snowmobiles and ice-wall climbing crampons.

You may also want to try it with different angles to see if the intensity alters.  As I understand bendy light, it bends more when the light is closer to the plane of the Earth than vertical and bends towards the perpendicular of the plane of the Earth.
But ONLY when the light is coming from the Earth.

You may also want to try it with different angles to see if the intensity alters.  As I understand bendy light, it bends more when the light is closer to the plane of the Earth than vertical and bends towards the perpendicular of the plane of the Earth.
But ONLY when the light is coming from the Earth.

The idea is first see if there is any change in luminosity. If so, i'll try different angles. Then i'll try to make some sort of model (something that FE people should do, not me, but I love sciencie and I find this funny). It's not a bad idea, isn't it?

Quote from: Lorddave on March 21, 2010, 11:11:09 AM

You may also want to try it with different angles to see if the intensity alters.  As I understand bendy light, it bends more when the light is closer to the plane of the Earth than vertical and bends towards the perpendicular of the plane of the Earth.
But ONLY when the light is coming from the Earth.

The idea is first see if there is any change in luminosity. If so, i'll try different angles. Then i'll try to make some sort of model (something that FE people should do, not me, but I love sciencie and I find this funny). It's not a bad idea, isn't it?

No, it's always good to see FE'ers squirm when given irrefutable evidence.

Great idea. Can't wait to hear the results 

Well the point is that I will not make the experiment unless FE people accept it as proof of existence or no existence of bendy light. That's why I want first to establish a debate about its weak points, etc.

Why not? Because it will take some effort to do. It's not as easy as going to the lab and doing it in half an hour. I have first to get permission and think what to answer to "ok you want to use our lasers, with what purpose?". If I say "to see if light is bent upwards as flat earth theory says" well... that might be funny, so I have to think what to say. I will not do that effort unless it is worthy.

FE people, feel free to talk about my experiment.

Well the point is that I will not make the experiment unless FE people accept it as proof of existence or no existence of bendy light. That's why I want first to establish a debate about its weak points, etc.

Why not? Because it will take some effort to do. It's not as easy as going to the lab and doing it in half an hour. I have first to get permission and think what to answer to "ok you want to use our lasers, with what purpose?". If I say "to see if light is bent upwards as flat earth theory says" well... that might be funny, so I have to think what to say. I will not do that effort unless it is worthy.

FE people, feel free to talk about my experiment.

You could just tell them the truth and say you want to prove or disprove a bunch of people on the Internet.  Sure it's a use of time and resources for a meaningless purpose, but whoever is in charge of the lab may feel the same way you do.

How do you know the mirrors are perfectly parallel?

They aren't. Usually one of the mirrors is curved (it's all about resonancy), but it does not change the basis of my experiment. And yes, it's impossible align them perfectly. From my initial post:

"Say that withouth bendy light it would bounce 10 times before escaping the mirrors (wich are impossible to align perfectly)"

So, how do you turn off light bending at will?

So, how do you turn off light bending at will?

Here:

Now let's test this theory. How to make a laser "invisible" to bendy light? Easy: facing it vertically. The light will be bouncing up and down in the cavity between the mirrors. This is the direction that lights bends on, therefore light will not bend and will bounce 10 times (example) before hitting the wall of the cavity. If we hold the laser horizontally bendy light phenomena will be at it's maximum, and we'll see 6 bounces. Therefore I claim that:

If I measure the laser's luminosity in both cases I will obtain different values, being higher the vertical one. If I get the same values that means that light does not bend

Following there is my idea with paint (click on the image):

http://www.mypicx.com/03212010/bendy_light/

Wich part don't you understand? I'll try to explain it better.

how do you know it's vertical?

how do you know it's vertical?

Aren't you supposed to be building an open source neutrino detector or something?

how do you know it's vertical?

Well, because I will hold it vertically (I will attach it to some support or something). If you are asking about the orientation of the resonant cavity I'll say that I know how the lasers form my lab works. They are cylinders and the resonant cavity is in the same direction as the exiting beam (as in the drawing).

But even if i'm wrong i will still get different values if bendy light is right.

If you are asking about being perfectly vertical I'll tell you that id does not matter at all if we only want to see bendy light in action. If we want to take precise data it matters, and i'll do my best with the precision of the angles. But bendy light phenomena should be easy to spot without that precission.

So, how do you turn off light bending at will?

According to the rules of Bendy light, bendy light only works in two planes.

Or, more simply, light from objects directly over the receiver is not bent.

That would be an excellent starting point for any budding investigator.

If you are asking about being perfectly vertical I'll tell you that id does not matter at all if we only want to see bendy light in action. If we want to take precise data it matters, and i'll do my best with the precision of the angles. But bendy light phenomena should be easy to spot without that precission.

ORLY? At a length of less than 1 m, you better have precise measurements because your confidence level will be less than 50%, i.e. you will be basically tossing a coin.

Quote from: corleone on March 21, 2010, 05:06:40 PM

If you are asking about being perfectly vertical I'll tell you that id does not matter at all if we only want to see bendy light in action. If we want to take precise data it matters, and i'll do my best with the precision of the angles. But bendy light phenomena should be easy to spot without that precission.

ORLY? At a length of less than 1 m, you better have precise measurements because your confidence level will be less than 50%, i.e. you will be basically tossing a coin.

But since the light bounces between mirrors thousands of times, wouldn't that translate to a large distance for the light to bend?  Sure the net distance would be small, but the travel distance shouldn't be.

Quote from: parsec on March 21, 2010, 05:13:26 PM

Quote from: corleone on March 21, 2010, 05:06:40 PM

If you are asking about being perfectly vertical I'll tell you that id does not matter at all if we only want to see bendy light in action. If we want to take precise data it matters, and i'll do my best with the precision of the angles. But bendy light phenomena should be easy to spot without that precission.

ORLY? At a length of less than 1 m, you better have precise measurements because your confidence level will be less than 50%, i.e. you will be basically tossing a coin.

But since the light bounces between mirrors thousands of times, wouldn't that translate to a large distance for the light to bend?  Sure the net distance would be small, but the travel distance shouldn't be.

No, because BLT takes into account the difference in refraction index over large height differences. Your tube has pretty much a uniform refraction index and you do not get the same effect as a true propagation of light through the atmolayer.

Well, you say that bendy light is due to refraction at the atmolayer? First time i've heard this.

In vacuum BL does not work? An airplane gets different "bendy light experience" than a person at earth?

I thought that BL was something like an universal acceleration of EM fields. Please explain me in what consists BL then.

Well, you say that bendy light is due to refraction at the atmolayer? First time i've heard this.

In vacuum BL does not work? An airplane gets different "bendy light experience" than a person at earth?

I thought that BL was something like an universal acceleration of EM fields. Please explain me in what consists BL then.

At this point we don't know with certainty. But, if light deflected by the same amount for the same difference in height, then it wouldn't bend, would it? The term 'bendy' implies progressive deflection with height.

Quote from: Lorddave on March 21, 2010, 05:22:12 PM

Quote from: parsec on March 21, 2010, 05:13:26 PM

Quote from: corleone on March 21, 2010, 05:06:40 PM

If you are asking about being perfectly vertical I'll tell you that id does not matter at all if we only want to see bendy light in action. If we want to take precise data it matters, and i'll do my best with the precision of the angles. But bendy light phenomena should be easy to spot without that precission.

ORLY? At a length of less than 1 m, you better have precise measurements because your confidence level will be less than 50%, i.e. you will be basically tossing a coin.

But since the light bounces between mirrors thousands of times, wouldn't that translate to a large distance for the light to bend?  Sure the net distance would be small, but the travel distance shouldn't be.

No, because BLT takes into account the difference in refraction index over large height differences. Your tube has pretty much a uniform refraction index and you do not get the same effect as a true propagation of light through the atmolayer.

Let me make sure I understand you're reasoning.
Light will only bends when the light passes through the whole atmosphere?

Quote from: parsec on March 21, 2010, 05:24:15 PM

Quote from: Lorddave on March 21, 2010, 05:22:12 PM

Quote from: parsec on March 21, 2010, 05:13:26 PM

Quote from: corleone on March 21, 2010, 05:06:40 PM

If you are asking about being perfectly vertical I'll tell you that id does not matter at all if we only want to see bendy light in action. If we want to take precise data it matters, and i'll do my best with the precision of the angles. But bendy light phenomena should be easy to spot without that precission.

ORLY? At a length of less than 1 m, you better have precise measurements because your confidence level will be less than 50%, i.e. you will be basically tossing a coin.

But since the light bounces between mirrors thousands of times, wouldn't that translate to a large distance for the light to bend?  Sure the net distance would be small, but the travel distance shouldn't be.

No, because BLT takes into account the difference in refraction index over large height differences. Your tube has pretty much a uniform refraction index and you do not get the same effect as a true propagation of light through the atmolayer.

Let me make sure I understand you're reasoning.
Light will only bends when the light passes through the whole atmosphere?

No.

No, because BLT takes into account the difference in refraction index over large height differences.

That's funny, so does RET.

Quote from: Lorddave on March 21, 2010, 05:35:01 PM

Quote from: parsec on March 21, 2010, 05:24:15 PM

Quote from: Lorddave on March 21, 2010, 05:22:12 PM

Quote from: parsec on March 21, 2010, 05:13:26 PM

Quote from: corleone on March 21, 2010, 05:06:40 PM

If you are asking about being perfectly vertical I'll tell you that id does not matter at all if we only want to see bendy light in action. If we want to take precise data it matters, and i'll do my best with the precision of the angles. But bendy light phenomena should be easy to spot without that precission.

ORLY? At a length of less than 1 m, you better have precise measurements because your confidence level will be less than 50%, i.e. you will be basically tossing a coin.

But since the light bounces between mirrors thousands of times, wouldn't that translate to a large distance for the light to bend?  Sure the net distance would be small, but the travel distance shouldn't be.

No, because BLT takes into account the difference in refraction index over large height differences. Your tube has pretty much a uniform refraction index and you do not get the same effect as a true propagation of light through the atmolayer.

Let me make sure I understand you're reasoning.
Light will only bends when the light passes through the whole atmosphere?

No.

So it bends based on the atmosphere's index of refraction for various heights?

Quote from: parsec on March 21, 2010, 05:35:32 PM

Quote from: Lorddave on March 21, 2010, 05:35:01 PM

Quote from: parsec on March 21, 2010, 05:24:15 PM

Quote from: Lorddave on March 21, 2010, 05:22:12 PM

Quote from: parsec on March 21, 2010, 05:13:26 PM

Quote from: corleone on March 21, 2010, 05:06:40 PM

If you are asking about being perfectly vertical I'll tell you that id does not matter at all if we only want to see bendy light in action. If we want to take precise data it matters, and i'll do my best with the precision of the angles. But bendy light phenomena should be easy to spot without that precission.

ORLY? At a length of less than 1 m, you better have precise measurements because your confidence level will be less than 50%, i.e. you will be basically tossing a coin.

But since the light bounces between mirrors thousands of times, wouldn't that translate to a large distance for the light to bend?  Sure the net distance would be small, but the travel distance shouldn't be.

No, because BLT takes into account the difference in refraction index over large height differences. Your tube has pretty much a uniform refraction index and you do not get the same effect as a true propagation of light through the atmolayer.

Let me make sure I understand you're reasoning.
Light will only bends when the light passes through the whole atmosphere?

No.

So it bends based on the atmosphere's index of refraction for various heights?

I'm afraid that even if I said yes, you would not be able to comprehend what that meant since you obviously do not have a clue what a refraction index is.

I've got a simple question: does BL happen in vacuum?

I've got a simple question: does BL happen in vacuum?

Define vacuum.

Quote from: corleone on March 21, 2010, 05:41:08 PM

I've got a simple question: does BL happen in vacuum?

Define vacuum.

In this context i would refeer to a space without air, therefore, without any changes on the refractive index.

Quote from: Lorddave on March 21, 2010, 05:37:50 PM

Quote from: parsec on March 21, 2010, 05:35:32 PM

Quote from: Lorddave on March 21, 2010, 05:35:01 PM

Quote from: parsec on March 21, 2010, 05:24:15 PM

Quote from: Lorddave on March 21, 2010, 05:22:12 PM

Quote from: parsec on March 21, 2010, 05:13:26 PM

Quote from: corleone on March 21, 2010, 05:06:40 PM

If you are asking about being perfectly vertical I'll tell you that id does not matter at all if we only want to see bendy light in action. If we want to take precise data it matters, and i'll do my best with the precision of the angles. But bendy light phenomena should be easy to spot without that precission.

ORLY? At a length of less than 1 m, you better have precise measurements because your confidence level will be less than 50%, i.e. you will be basically tossing a coin.

But since the light bounces between mirrors thousands of times, wouldn't that translate to a large distance for the light to bend?  Sure the net distance would be small, but the travel distance shouldn't be.

No, because BLT takes into account the difference in refraction index over large height differences. Your tube has pretty much a uniform refraction index and you do not get the same effect as a true propagation of light through the atmolayer.

Let me make sure I understand you're reasoning.
Light will only bends when the light passes through the whole atmosphere?

No.

So it bends based on the atmosphere's index of refraction for various heights?

I'm afraid that even if I said yes, you would not be able to comprehend what that meant since you obviously do not have a clue what a refraction index is.

>_>
The index of refraction is how a light beam will bend through a solid but translucent or transparent objects, such as water, and appear to distort the object.  This can easily be seen by putting a pencil in a cup of water.   The pencil appears to bend at the surface of the water.  

So yes, I know what an index of refraction is.
And yes, I know the atmosphere has a refraction index that changes based on density and temperature of the air.
What I'm trying to figure out is how that matters since we can measure the index refraction of air and calculate the true path of light in the vacuum.  Atmospheric refraction is one of the things astronomers try to limit by building large telescopes high up.  Less air, less matter for the light to bend.

I'm still trying to figure out what is different between bendy light and simple atmospheric refraction.