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Why?

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noconspiracy

Why?
« on: February 28, 2010, 06:38:17 PM »
Hi, just joined the forum and had a quick look around.

First of all, I am a believer in the round Earth.

I notice that some people on here talk about a conspiracy. A conspiracy that people say the Earth is round, when they know it flat. They are trying to deceive people into believing that it is round when it is not.

I just want to ask why? Why would they do that?
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Sean

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Re: Why?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2010, 06:48:54 PM »
Money.
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noconspiracy

Re: Why?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2010, 06:50:02 PM »
Care to elaborate?

How do they make money from people believing the Earth is round?
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Sean

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Re: Why?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2010, 06:51:58 PM »
Space agencies get money from tax dollars.
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2fst4u

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Re: Why?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2010, 07:15:01 PM »
Quote from: noconspiracy on February 28, 2010, 06:50:02 PM
Care to elaborate?

How do they make money from people believing the Earth is round?
They reckon the conspiracy exists to fake space expeditions and rake in profit for doing nothing except tell people they went to space etc. TBH, I don't understand why they wouldn't just fake the expeditions on a FE anyway. Don't try to make sense of them, just prove them wrong and you'll do just fine.
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Canadark

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Re: Why?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2010, 08:32:17 PM »
Quote from: Sean on February 28, 2010, 06:51:58 PM
Space agencies get money from tax dollars.

If I were in on the conspiracy, I'd sell out and live off of my Nobel prize money.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2009, 04:26:37 PM
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.
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SurfGuy

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Re: Why?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2010, 09:05:56 PM »
Quote from: Canadark on February 28, 2010, 08:32:17 PM
Quote from: Sean on February 28, 2010, 06:51:58 PM
Space agencies get money from tax dollars.

If I were in on the conspiracy, I'd sell out and live off of my Nobel prize money.

It seems like a lot of people would have to be in on this conspiracy, considering they have to fake XM, Sirius, TV and GPS satellites.  Are you saying that not one of those people thought to do this?
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2fst4u

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Re: Why?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2010, 09:22:19 PM »
Quote from: SurfGuy on February 28, 2010, 09:05:56 PM
Quote from: Canadark on February 28, 2010, 08:32:17 PM
Quote from: Sean on February 28, 2010, 06:51:58 PM
Space agencies get money from tax dollars.

If I were in on the conspiracy, I'd sell out and live off of my Nobel prize money.

It seems like a lot of people would have to be in on this conspiracy, considering they have to fake XM, Sirius, TV and GPS satellites.  Are you saying that not one of those people thought to do this?
You can't think about outing a conspiracy when it doesn't exist. Simple as that.
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Canadark

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Re: Why?
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2010, 09:42:53 PM »
Quote from: SurfGuy on February 28, 2010, 09:05:56 PM
Quote from: Canadark on February 28, 2010, 08:32:17 PM
Quote from: Sean on February 28, 2010, 06:51:58 PM
Space agencies get money from tax dollars.

If I were in on the conspiracy, I'd sell out and live off of my Nobel prize money.

It seems like a lot of people would have to be in on this conspiracy, considering they have to fake XM, Sirius, TV and GPS satellites.  Are you saying that not one of those people thought to do this?

I believe the Flat Earth model is bullshit, so no.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2009, 04:26:37 PM
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2010, 07:17:42 AM »
The Conspiracy probably does what it does for profit, exploiting the (if you'll pardon the pun) astronomical sums of money invested in space programs for their own gain.
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Canadark

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Re: Why?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2010, 07:24:16 AM »
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 01, 2010, 07:17:42 AM
The Conspiracy probably does what it does for profit, exploiting the (if you'll pardon the pun) astronomical sums of money invested in space programs for their own gain.

The IRS is in on it too, or else they would be audited.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2009, 04:26:37 PM
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2010, 07:32:29 AM »
What exactly would an audit reveal? I'm ot convinced the IRS are really up on thier rocket science. In any event, it's well known that NASA have gaping holes in their accounts which they have been unable to explain.
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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Canadark

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Re: Why?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2010, 08:10:17 AM »
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 01, 2010, 07:32:29 AM
What exactly would an audit reveal? I'm ot convinced the IRS are really up on thier rocket science. In any event, it's well known that NASA have gaping holes in their accounts which they have been unable to explain.

It is? You're not talking about simply going over-budget are you?
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2009, 04:26:37 PM
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.
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bowler

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Re: Why?
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2010, 10:22:53 AM »
What about the rest of science? Its already been established the neutrino physics community would have to be in on it. As would everyone who makes a GPS receiver and has every written software for one (which given its an open standard is quite a few). Depending on how much of science you take out obviously increases the amount of the scientific community implicated. For bendy light we're almost certainly including the gravitational wave experiments. Then we have all the ariel surveys of the Earths gravitational field. What are we saying about special relativity? That would kick out almost all of modern optics, solid state physics and QM. Every scientific collaboration that has ever claimed to have launched a satellite. Then we have the thousands of people who have lied about the times that last weeks tidal wave reached various parts of the world. Really by the time you've split the winnings from this conspiracy we're talking choclate bar money.
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markjo

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Re: Why?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2010, 01:03:26 PM »
Quote from: Canadark on March 01, 2010, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 01, 2010, 07:17:42 AM
The Conspiracy probably does what it does for profit, exploiting the (if you'll pardon the pun) astronomical sums of money invested in space programs for their own gain.

The IRS is in on it too, or else they would be audited.

Actually, it's the function of the GAO to audit NASA on a regular basis.
http://fcw.com/Articles/2009/01/13/GAO-NASA-needs-to-improve-its-internal-audits.aspx
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Canadark

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Re: Why?
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2010, 01:22:44 PM »
Quote from: markjo on March 01, 2010, 01:03:26 PM
Quote from: Canadark on March 01, 2010, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 01, 2010, 07:17:42 AM
The Conspiracy probably does what it does for profit, exploiting the (if you'll pardon the pun) astronomical sums of money invested in space programs for their own gain.

The IRS is in on it too, or else they would be audited.

Actually, it's the function of the GAO to audit NASA on a regular basis.
http://fcw.com/Articles/2009/01/13/GAO-NASA-needs-to-improve-its-internal-audits.aspx

Yes but the people who work for NASA who are bringing home the money that they say they are using for space projects will get audited by the IRS for their undisclosed incomes. Assuming they pay taxes like everybody else.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2009, 04:26:37 PM
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2010, 04:11:44 PM »
Quote from: Canadark on March 01, 2010, 08:10:17 AM
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 01, 2010, 07:32:29 AM
What exactly would an audit reveal? I'm ot convinced the IRS are really up on thier rocket science. In any event, it's well known that NASA have gaping holes in their accounts which they have been unable to explain.

It is? You're not talking about simply going over-budget are you?


I can't find a link on the issue right now, but someone else might have it. Basically there was a huge unexplained hole in their accounts.
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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Canadark

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Re: Why?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2010, 04:27:55 PM »
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 01, 2010, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: Canadark on March 01, 2010, 08:10:17 AM
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 01, 2010, 07:32:29 AM
What exactly would an audit reveal? I'm ot convinced the IRS are really up on thier rocket science. In any event, it's well known that NASA have gaping holes in their accounts which they have been unable to explain.

It is? You're not talking about simply going over-budget are you?


I can't find a link on the issue right now, but someone else might have it. Basically there was a huge unexplained hole in their accounts.

Show me the beef.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2009, 04:26:37 PM
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why?
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2010, 04:34:55 PM »
Quote from: Canadark on March 01, 2010, 04:27:55 PM
Show me the beef.


Found a post by Tom with the link:


Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 20, 2008, 05:11:10 PM
Quote
All money goes somewhere.  The auditor's job is to ensure the accounts are reliable.

Right. And those auditors couldn't verify NASA's spending records.

Read what the GAO has to say about NASA:

    "NASA is still unable to provide detailed support for the
    amounts obligated against the limits. Thus, we could not verify the
    amounts NASA reported to Congress in its budget requests for fiscal
    years 2002 through 2006."

If the federal auditing agents at the GAO can't even do it, how do you expect us to?
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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ugaboga313

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Re: Why?
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2010, 04:36:26 PM »
Nasa doesn't make that much. Lets say 20 Billion. You have to use a lot of this money to actually build and research the stuff Nasa does and gives out (lots of patents for NASA). Space shuttles are either replaced every time or 99% the cost of the actual space ship.


Now with all of that, you have to pay off tons of people more than they would receive from going public. You have GPS companies, Satellite based companies, Researchers, Navy, super photoshoppers, astronauts, etc.


You can't do it. Assume NASA can do all of its conspiracy stuff for 10 billion (it can't do that anyway), that only leaves 10 billion (this is an inflated sum to begin with) to bribe and cover up thousands of people. Let's be nice and say there are only 1000 people who know (it would have to be much higher). That is 10 million per person. You would get a lot more than 10 million per person for blabbing.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why?
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2010, 04:41:05 PM »
Please. Did you know that so far the ISS has cost about $150 billion? In fact, it's the most expensive object ever built. This is not small change we're talking about here.
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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ugaboga313

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Re: Why?
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2010, 04:45:24 PM »
This is over a large period of years (30ish).

NASA's budget is only 20 Billion per year.

The math just doesn't add up for the conspiracy. NASA actually does stuff that is easily verifiable and the multitude of people that would have to be wrong, stupid, or bribed is astronomical.

In fact, bringing up the ISS is even more evidence for me. Something was built and researched and it definitely cost the Conspiracy some money.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why?
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2010, 04:56:09 PM »
Yes, something was built, but it wasn't Thunderbird 5.
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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ugaboga313

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Re: Why?
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2010, 05:05:19 PM »
So NASA gets another 5 billion per year, still not enough to do what they would need to in a conspiracy.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why?
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2010, 05:12:01 PM »
Even assuming the numbers you choose are right (and I'm not otally convinced), you're giving people $10 million a year, tax-free, for the rest of their lives.


What's more, NASA's budget is only part of the picture. You have to remember that there are numerous agencies and funds involved, and many companies paying for their services. The money controlled by The Conspiracy goes well ebyond the NASA budget.
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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ugaboga313

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Re: Why?
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2010, 05:13:49 PM »
1. Why doesn't the IRS audit these people who magically get 10 million per year?
2. This was a VERY lowball estimate in favor of FE throughout.
3. Please show me some of the agencies and companies involved. What services does NASA provide that would actually work in an FE?
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why?
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2010, 05:21:37 PM »
Quote from: ugaboga313 on March 01, 2010, 05:13:49 PM
1. Why doesn't the IRS audit these people who magically get 10 million per year?


You may as well ask why they don't audit every other person who gets money through illegal means. I'm not expert on how people do this sort of thing, but I do know they do it all the time. It's not exactly uncommon.


Quote from: ugaboga313 on March 01, 2010, 05:13:49 PM
3. Please show me some of the agencies and companies involved. What services does NASA provide that would actually work in an FE?


Private companies pay to have their satellites put in orbit on a regular basis.
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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ugaboga313

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Re: Why?
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2010, 05:23:54 PM »
So the IRS doesn't bat an eye at all the people receiving 10 million dollars all connected to an agency that bleeds money?

Also, wtf do the private agencies do when their satellites don't do jackshit? Sorry for the language, but I thought you would have more foresight then posting that.

That just helps RE. Under an FE, you would have to start bribing EVEN more people. Satellite tv, internet, phone, etc.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why?
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2010, 05:27:34 PM »
Quote from: ugaboga313 on March 01, 2010, 05:23:54 PM
So the IRS doesn't bat an eye at all the people receiving 10 million dollars all connected to an agency that bleeds money?


Obviously they don't know they're getting this money. Like I said, there are ways and means.


Quote from: ugaboga313 on March 01, 2010, 05:23:54 PM
Also, wtf do the private agencies do when their satellites don't do jackshit? Sorry for the language, but I thought you would have more foresight then posting that.


What do you mean 'what do they do'? They pay large sums for the stuff to be 'launched into space', and then get whatever info The Conspiracy networks are putting out.


Quote from: ugaboga313 on March 01, 2010, 05:23:54 PM
That just helps RE. Under an FE, you would have to start bribing EVEN more people. Satellite tv, internet, phone, etc.


No, you wouldn't.
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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Why?
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2010, 05:32:58 PM »
Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 01, 2010, 05:27:34 PM
Quote from: ugaboga313 on March 01, 2010, 05:23:54 PM
So the IRS doesn't bat an eye at all the people receiving 10 million dollars all connected to an agency that bleeds money?
Obviously they don't know they're getting this money. Like I said, there are ways and means.

Ways and means? That's pretty much another way of saying you have no clue how it can be done and are saying that it is possible the conspiracy is devilishly sneaky. The IRS audits people for not handing even $10,000 on their tax returns. You really think they'd miss $10 million from thousands of people?
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