A request for evidence.

  • 152 Replies
  • 26037 Views
?

HTD

  • 28
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #120 on: September 12, 2009, 01:02:27 PM »
How do you guys explain videos/images of the earth rotating from outerspace? Some of those vidoes/images are rather old, back when movie effects were incredibly poor. A fake would be extremely easy to spot, even more so with modern standards. I mean honestly, when asked for proof, you simply tell us to read a book, and yet when we explain experiments and evidence gathered by other scientists that prove us right, you say, "How do you know it's true? How do you know they weren't wrong? Have you tried it yourself? Then you don't know." What, pray tell, would be the point on covering up that the planet is flat? And what makes earth so special that it's the only flat planet out there? And how do other planets circle the sun if it's just a disk that moves around in a circle above earth? And if the earth accelerates upwards at 9.8m/s^2, then why isn't it moving towards any other galaxies? Even if you completely ignore NASA and all their proof, you mean to tell me the entire field of astronomy is full of lies and morons? Are all of you experienced scientists that have done the grunt work to prove this? Science is on our side. Your logic is faulty and goes against all the progession we've made, claiming things we've proven we can do to be impossible.

*

W

  • 2288
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #121 on: September 12, 2009, 09:03:59 PM »
HTD, remember that NASA could afford quite advanced equipment, even for the time. They could make very convincing fakes, and they did. For some of the videos, all they actually had to do was paint the fake earth on a black canvas, create the fake spaceship interior, put it outside the window, and film it from within the "spaceship." They didn't do an amazing job though, and if you look closely at some of these "photos" and videos you can see that the earth is not drawn in a way that accurately represents the round earth model.

Also, planets do not circle around the sun.
If you say that the earth is flat, you are destroying centuries of evolution.

?

HTD

  • 28
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #122 on: September 13, 2009, 12:10:33 PM »
HTD, remember that NASA could afford quite advanced equipment, even for the time. They could make very convincing fakes, and they did. For some of the videos, all they actually had to do was paint the fake earth on a black canvas, create the fake spaceship interior, put it outside the window, and film it from within the "spaceship." They didn't do an amazing job though, and if you look closely at some of these "photos" and videos you can see that the earth is not drawn in a way that accurately represents the round earth model.

Also, planets do not circle around the sun.

Oh my word, please don't tell me you guys also think that the planets circle Earth? Because how else would you explain their orbit? You can't...so...you must really think that the other planets circle Earth. Okay. That goes against everything we've discovered. The Earth is not the center of the universe and planets circle STARS. Planets do not circle other planets. We've tracked the movements of stars and planets for centuries. It just doesn't work like that.  That would mean Jupiter and Mars are actually moons. That makes absolutely no sense. Although, if you guys have some alternate explanation, I'd love to hear it and will apologize for my tangent.

So, I completely trust in NASA, but if you want to believe that they're full of shit, go ahead, but the very laws of Physics prove the earth is round. I mean, if you want to get down to it, how can planes circle the earth...boats? And if you guys have some insane explanation for that, why haven't you guys all gotten together, pooled a fund, and traveled to the edge of the earth...where the big ice crap is, and voyage to the other side? Hmm? And just how thick is this 'flat earth'? I mean, how do you explain volcanos, plate tectonics? Look guys, the world isn't what it use to be. It is FULL of highly eduated people in most regions (minus the more obscure places of South America, Africa, etc)...you mean to tell me no one past your society has ever figured out the earth isn't round? That no one discovered that something a little fishy was going on? I mean NASA isn't the only space program. Several other nations have them. You mean to tell me that all joined together and said, "Let's pull a fast one on the entire world. FOR NO REASON! YAY!!!" I mean shit, we have satellite images and now you CAN'T say that they aren't real. I mean we can friggin' see them in the sky, for heaven sake. I mean if they did take images of a flat earth, I repeat, WHAT IS THE POINT OF HIDING IT?! We would advance better if we knew what the world is like. And we do know. We know it's round. The government isn't that friggin' stupid.

*

W

  • 2288
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #123 on: September 13, 2009, 01:19:41 PM »
Oh my word, please don't tell me you guys also think that the planets circle Earth? Because how else would you explain their orbit? You can't...so...you must really think that the other planets circle Earth. Okay.

Incapable of expressing your opinions respectfully, then? No, I don't think the planets circle earth.
If you say that the earth is flat, you are destroying centuries of evolution.

*

Roundy the Truthinessist

  • Flat Earth TheFLAMETHROWER!
  • The Elder Ones
  • 26966
  • +0/-0
  • I'm the boss.
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #124 on: September 13, 2009, 01:22:12 PM »
I'm sorry, my eyes were glazing over trying to read your walls of text.  What is it that you're trying to say?  Do you have any proof that the Earth is round?  Remember, brevity is the soul of wit.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

?

HTD

  • 28
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #125 on: September 13, 2009, 02:00:05 PM »
Oh my word, please don't tell me you guys also think that the planets circle Earth? Because how else would you explain their orbit? You can't...so...you must really think that the other planets circle Earth. Okay.

Incapable of expressing your opinions respectfully, then? No, I don't think the planets circle earth.

How was that disrespectful? I was simply assuming what you guys must think. After all, people that use to believe the Earth was flat also believed the planets revolved around it. It was a logical assumption to make. I didn't see anything in your FAQ about other planets circling the sun and even ended the paragraph saying that if you guys had some alternate explanation, I'd love to hear it.

And rather then just saying you don't think so, why don't you explain what you do think then? You guys seem to do that a lot around here. You refuse to explain yourselves. Instead, you just tell us to read the FAQ when there are some rather gaping holes sprinkled within there.

I'm sorry, my eyes were glazing over trying to read your walls of text.  What is it that you're trying to say?  Do you have any proof that the Earth is round?  Remember, brevity is the soul of wit.

I'm sorry to hear that two paragraphs was much too much for you to read. I assume you also have trouble going over the entire menu at Applebee's? If you want to be a jerk, I can be one right back, sweety.

Do you have any proof the world is flat? Besides your FAQ and the one book you guys keep telling everyone to read? Is there anything you can tell me that I can't simply turn right back around on you?

*

W

  • 2288
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #126 on: September 13, 2009, 02:22:51 PM »
Oh my word, please don't tell me you guys also think that the planets circle Earth? Because how else would you explain their orbit? You can't...so...you must really think that the other planets circle Earth. Okay.

Incapable of expressing your opinions respectfully, then? No, I don't think the planets circle earth.

How was that disrespectful?

See bold.
If you say that the earth is flat, you are destroying centuries of evolution.

?

HTD

  • 28
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #127 on: September 13, 2009, 04:22:30 PM »
Oh my word, please don't tell me you guys also think that the planets circle Earth? Because how else would you explain their orbit? You can't...so...you must really think that the other planets circle Earth. Okay.

Incapable of expressing your opinions respectfully, then? No, I don't think the planets circle earth.

How was that disrespectful?

See bold.

Lol. It's easy to pick particular parts and slap them together and call them rude. The whole thing was a thought process I went through. And you still have yet to explain what the planets orbit then.

*

W

  • 2288
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #128 on: September 13, 2009, 04:28:50 PM »
Lol. It's easy to pick particular parts and slap them together and call them rude. The whole thing was a thought process I went through. And you still have yet to explain what the planets orbit then.

Do you really think I want to explain anything to you after how nasty you've been?
If you say that the earth is flat, you are destroying centuries of evolution.

?

HTD

  • 28
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #129 on: September 13, 2009, 04:34:46 PM »
Lol. It's easy to pick particular parts and slap them together and call them rude. The whole thing was a thought process I went through. And you still have yet to explain what the planets orbit then.

Do you really think I want to explain anything to you after how nasty you've been?

If you think I've been nasty, then you're ridiculously sensitive. Compared to some of the other people you get, I've been downright pleasent. And even though I'm very open minded, I tend to be very pushy with my opinions and have been exceedingly lovely compared to how I could have been. No, I just think you don't have an explanation and are avoiding the question. You need to lose some of that dodge rating and put it towards some hit.

*

W

  • 2288
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #130 on: September 13, 2009, 04:42:00 PM »
And there it is. The "you're just not answering because you're afraid!!!" Used by round earthers time and time again when they realize no one wants to give them something for nothing when they're being completely unpleasant about it.

Fine, feel free to consider this as avoiding the question. Best of luck to you finding the answers you seek.
If you say that the earth is flat, you are destroying centuries of evolution.

?

HTD

  • 28
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #131 on: September 13, 2009, 04:45:24 PM »
I never said you weren't answering because you were afraid. That implies you're not sure your answer is correct. What I was saying is that you don't actually have an answer to that particular question. Which is all I wanted to know. Some explanation that is not previously explained from what I've seen. Instead of discussing and debating, you whine that everyone is way too mean when they question your logic.

?

Areweonfiya

  • 2686
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #132 on: September 13, 2009, 04:47:38 PM »
How can you expect people who are told that the Earth is flat that they should be pleasent about it?

*

Kakatary

  • 14
  • +0/-0
  • Open minded. I'm one of those rare people...
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #133 on: September 13, 2009, 09:49:12 PM »
Hello, I'm new to this website and I'd like to throw in my two cents. I'm neither convinced entirely nor disproven that the theory is true. But it doesn't mean that I can't at least be a little interested in what theories people have on the subject. If you come into a place like this with a close mind, you'll never learn anything. Perhaps you're not here to really learn anything but to troll, and I'm sorry for you. Me, I'm here on an open mind. Maybe the world really is flat? I don't know yet until I nod and agree to listen to what they have to say.

Please, let's be mature about this. So far, I have come up with this:

Oh my word, please don't tell me you guys also think that the planets circle Earth? Because how else would you explain their orbit? You can't...so...you must really think that the other planets circle Earth. Okay. That goes against everything we've discovered. The Earth is not the center of the universe and planets circle STARS. Planets do not circle other planets. We've tracked the movements of stars and planets for centuries.


This is assuming that planets really exist. From what I've read and understood thus far, the flat earth theory believes that NASA is truly a conspiracy and, its discoveries and theories may be just as wrong as its purpose. However, from Earth, planets look like stars and, according to the FAQ: "The stars are at a height of 3100 miles above sea level, which is as far as from San Francisco to Boston." So, maybe planets don't exist and are really just stars in the sky?

Going back to the round earth theory, if are planets revolved around stars, we'd be revolving around millions of stars in different directions instead of the sun. So, planets don't circle the stars, I hope.

With saying that planets don't circle other planets, you're closing your mind off to the one thing that the flat earth theory bases itself on: NASA is a conspiracy. The belief is that NASA made everything up. They may have said they were tracking the planets' movements for centuries but really have been hoaxing it all along. How do we know? It could very well be true either way. I've never been to space and I don't think I ever will, so I can never for sure say that the world is flat or round because I have never seen it. And I sure as hell don't want to be force-fed information like a robot (which, by the way, is why I'm here; looking at both sides of the coin).
 
So, I completely trust in NASA, but if you want to believe that they're full of shit, go ahead, but the very laws of Physics prove the earth is round. I mean, if you want to get down to it, how can planes circle the earth...boats?

I'm almost positive that their FAQ answers both the Physics part and the boats/planes part of your comment.

And if you guys have some insane explanation for that, why haven't you guys all gotten together, pooled a fund, and traveled to the edge of the earth...where the big ice crap is, and voyage to the other side?

Apparently, the Flat Earth Society is not funded by the government like NASA is =) . Besides, even if the world was round or flat, scientist still agree that the weather in the ice cap is too cold for any human being to survive. That's why no one goes there to live.

And just how thick is this 'flat earth'? I mean, how do you explain volcanos, plate tectonics?

I also believe that is explained in the FAQ.

It is FULL of highly eduated people in most regions (minus the more obscure places of South America, Africa, etc)...you mean to tell me no one past your society has ever figured out the earth isn't round? That no one discovered that something a little fishy was going on?

Who's to say there aren't intelligent people already signed up in the society? Besides, intelligence can be easily swayed by the temptation of power and money.

I mean NASA isn't the only space program. Several other nations have them. You mean to tell me that all joined together and said, "Let's pull a fast one on the entire world. FOR NO REASON! YAY!!!"

That's exactly what they're saying. It makes sense to some degree. Imagine if governments were actually competing to make it to the moon first (and, off the flat earth theories, they were!) and to "accomplish" all these things first, psyching their neighboring countries out. Perhaps they're not in it together, but it does make sense if they were competing and saying they did this-and-this first.

I mean shit, we have satellite images and now you CAN'T say that they aren't real. I mean we can friggin' see them in the sky, for heaven sake. I mean if they did take images of a flat earth, I repeat, WHAT IS THE POINT OF HIDING IT?! We would advance better if we knew what the world is like. And we do know. We know it's round. The government isn't that friggin' stupid.

Satellite images like google earth? If that's what you're referencing there then the image itself isn't curvy; it's flat, like on a T.V. screen when you're zoomed in.

We can? You must have amazing eyesight because I can't XP lol. But seriously, how do you know those are satellites and not just stars? Do you map the sky every night? However, I do wonder how it is the Google Maps doesn't work without satellites (if someone from the Flat Earth Society would explain, I would be very intrigued :D )?

We don't know anything else except what the government tells us. Governments have been known to hide things from their citizens on countless occasions. Why would this occasion be any different?

~~~~~

Sorry for the long post ^^;, but I hope it helps a little and that we can have a sensible discussion :D
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 09:55:48 PM by Kakatary »
"We sell our skills, not our bodies.
We create another secret world, a place only of beauty.
The very word "geisha" means artist and to be a geisha
is to be judged as a moving work of art."

*

W

  • 2288
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #134 on: September 13, 2009, 10:00:03 PM »
I adore you, Kakatary.
If you say that the earth is flat, you are destroying centuries of evolution.

*

Kakatary

  • 14
  • +0/-0
  • Open minded. I'm one of those rare people...
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #135 on: September 13, 2009, 10:12:22 PM »
Aw... ^.^ Thanks
"We sell our skills, not our bodies.
We create another secret world, a place only of beauty.
The very word "geisha" means artist and to be a geisha
is to be judged as a moving work of art."

*

W

  • 2288
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #136 on: September 13, 2009, 10:30:13 PM »
:)
If you say that the earth is flat, you are destroying centuries of evolution.

?

HTD

  • 28
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #137 on: September 14, 2009, 04:11:50 AM »
Quote
This is assuming that planets really exist. From what I've read and understood thus far, the flat earth theory believes that NASA is truly a conspiracy and, its discoveries and theories may be just as wrong as its purpose. However, from Earth, planets look like stars and, according to the FAQ: "The stars are at a height of 3100 miles above sea level, which is as far as from San Francisco to Boston." So, maybe planets don't exist and are really just stars in the sky?

That would mean everyone that ever looked into a telescope is wrong. The currently accepted definition of a star is such: Any massive celestial body of gas that shines by radiant energy generated inside it. (Encyclopedia Britannica, definition) Now, I could see how they might argue that anything in the sky is a star, but it's hardly fair to say that just because planets look like stars from the naked eye, that no purely civilian folks haven't ever seen planets in their true form. And not only that, I've even seen it admitted on these very forums that planets are round celestial bodies, while the earth is simply made of speshul sauce.

Also, why are the numbers so exact? What proof is there that the stars are 3100 miles high? I've yet to see any tangible proof of this. It seems like a number that was pulled out of thin air by someone. I mean, what research has been put forth to confirm it is 3100 miles high? I would love to see some calculations and numbers.

Quote
Going back to the round earth theory, if are planets revolved around stars, we'd be revolving around millions of stars in different directions instead of the sun. So, planets don't circle the stars, I hope.

Not true. We only revolve around one star in a system of millions and millions, but it's all about distance. We're not close enough to other stars to be sucked in by their gravity and revolve around them. In fact, the effect would be most certainly be the end of our solar system if such a thing would happen. Which, if you do believe NASA, could possibly happen in several billion years, but it's nothing we have to worry about, haha.

Quote
With saying that planets don't circle other planets, you're closing your mind off to the one thing that the flat earth theory bases itself on: NASA is a conspiracy. The belief is that NASA made everything up. They may have said they were tracking the planets' movements for centuries but really have been hoaxing it all along. How do we know? It could very well be true either way. I've never been to space and I don't think I ever will, so I can never for sure say that the world is flat or round because I have never seen it. And I sure as hell don't want to be force-fed information like a robot (which, by the way, is why I'm here; looking at both sides of the coin).

Again, NASA isn't the only people out there. Back in 280 B.C. Aristarchus suggested the Earth revolves around the Sun. He provided the first estimation of Earth-Sun distance. In 1420, Ulugh Beg's observatory produced astronomical tables that included a catalogue of over 1,000 stars. In 1609, Galileo discovered the Milky Way. We aren't making things up here. We are riding on the back of great men over thousands of years and it has merely evolved to what it is today.
 
Quote
I'm almost positive that their FAQ answers both the Physics part and the boats/planes part of your comment.

Yes, I read over it. Horrible memory, but it was something about they're not going in a straight line like they think they are. In essence, every person to ever fly a plane and steer a ship are utter morons for not noticing they were turning. I apologize, but that's all I see in that explanation.  

Quote
Apparently, the Flat Earth Society is not funded by the government like NASA is =) . Besides, even if the world was round or flat, scientist still agree that the weather in the ice cap is too cold for any human being to survive. That's why no one goes there to live.

True about the conditions, but no one wants to live there. It doesn't mean that it isn't possible to get your best gear on and go on a dangerous exhibition. Humans have been known to do that for the longest time, despite the dangers. And besides, there are many research stations in Antarctica where scientists study all sorts of things, because the conditions make it uniquely perfect to gauge several things, including astronomical research. And sorry to say, this isn't all funded by NASA.

Quote
I also believe that is explained in the FAQ. [about volcanos/plate tectonics]

I saw an explanation pertaining to volcanoes, but not the plate tectonics. Perhaps I simply missed it, but I would still like to hear how they explain that one.

Quote
Who's to say there aren't intelligent people already signed up in the society? Besides, intelligence can be easily swayed by the temptation of power and money.

I think you're implying that I said no one is intelligent in this society. Perhaps not, but I just want to clarify that isn't what I meant.  What I simply meant is the majority of intelligent people haven't noticed that there is a big conspiracy and many of civilians have done all sorts of research, some barely pertaining to the roundness of the earth, but still proving it to be true. And as far as money goes, I have yet to receive my check, hehe. No seriously, though, if you're saying everyone that has ever discovered the earth was flat got a giant hush check, I think you overestimate the power of the government over all people. There will always be one that'll stand up and tell the government to go fuck themselves and provide the truth.

Quote
That's exactly what they're saying. It makes sense to some degree. Imagine if governments were actually competing to make it to the moon first (and, off the flat earth theories, they were!) and to "accomplish" all these things first, psyching their neighboring countries out. Perhaps they're not in it together, but it does make sense if they were competing and saying they did this-and-this first.

Even you admit. To some degree. I don't believe your reasoning, but you yourself admitted that it doesn't entirely make sense. The explanation is not sound. If the governments were in such a state of competition, why wouldn't one simply disprove the other that 'accomplished it first', by going, "Liar. The earth is flat. Good job lying to your people. They'll sure trust you now." That level of discredit would do a shit load of damage. And during the space race, I seriously can't see Russia not taking that potshot at us.


Quote
Satellite images like google earth? If that's what you're referencing there then the image itself isn't curvy; it's flat, like on a T.V. screen when you're zoomed in.

We can? You must have amazing eyesight because I can't XP lol. But seriously, how do you know those are satellites and not just stars? Do you map the sky every night? However, I do wonder how it is the Google Maps doesn't work without satellites (if someone from the Flat Earth Society would explain, I would be very intrigued :D )?

Are you seriously going there? Dude, it's all a matter of perspective. A camera doesn't take round images, sorry to say. I could take a picture of a giant ball, and it would be flat. Does that mean the ball is flat? No. Besides, if you zoom out enough, there is a model of the earth that you can circle around and zoom in else where.

Besides, it goes against what they think, anyways. They think satellites don't exist. Which does bring up an odd point you said. How the hell does Goggle Earth work then? I mean, there are images there that were taking WAY above the earth and yet zoom in seamlessly. (Notice how they people commented on how they loved you/your post and failed to answer your question?)

Okay, satellites are visible to the naked eye. They're dots of light that move much faster then the stars. How do I know those dots aren't simply stars? Telescope. Telescope. Telescope. Come on now. Go to the store, buy one, and look up.


Quote
We don't know anything else except what the government tells us. Governments have been known to hide things from their citizens on countless occasions. Why would this occasion be any different?

Wrong. Utterly wrong. I've basically explained, but the government isn't the only one out there doing the research. It's crap to say that 'all we know is what the government tells us'. That wasn't a very well thought out response. I don't mean to be rude, I really don't, but the government only controls so much. And yes, it's a lot. I won't deny that. We need the government to control a lot, but it isn't the only thing existing out there.

Quote
Sorry for the long post ^^;, but I hope it helps a little and that we can have a sensible discussion :D

Don't be sorry. Your post was very refreshing compared to the responses I've gotten so far. They were thought out (except what I said just above XD) and thoughtful, and now I can have the debate I wanted. =D. Btw, I love your avatar. I make all my friends watch that movie because it's so full of win.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 04:23:02 AM by HTD »

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45159
  • +98/-136
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #138 on: September 14, 2009, 06:24:18 AM »
I adore you, Kakatary.
Makes you wonder who's alt she is.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

W

  • 2288
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #139 on: September 14, 2009, 06:42:11 AM »
I adore you, Kakatary.
Makes you wonder who's alt she is.

Saddam has a lot of alts, but his posts are typically a lot shorter.
If you say that the earth is flat, you are destroying centuries of evolution.

?

Proleg

Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #140 on: September 14, 2009, 01:18:04 PM »
I adore you, Kakatary.
Makes you wonder who's alt she is.
Because God forbid anyone of intelligence be sincere around here... ::)

?

La Bartinorita

Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #141 on: September 14, 2009, 03:31:32 PM »
Lol. It's easy to pick particular parts and slap them together and call them rude. The whole thing was a thought process I went through. And you still have yet to explain what the planets orbit then.

Do you really think I want to explain anything to you after how nasty you've been?

Oh boo hoo!! Avoiding the question again are we? I spit in your general direction! Whaddya have to say to that eh? You think HTD's being NASTY? Oh Hell no, she's giving you the royal treatment now. Might as well thank her for being so merciful.

*

Kakatary

  • 14
  • +0/-0
  • Open minded. I'm one of those rare people...
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #142 on: September 15, 2009, 04:52:30 PM »
Quote from: HTD link=topic=31552.msg795397#msg795397
date=1252926710]And not only that, I've even seen it admitted on these very forums that planets are round celestial bodies, while the earth is simply made of speshul sauce.

Oh, that?s true. I have no idea about it then lol. I?m learning as much as you are on this. If this site really has agreed that planets exist then I am as curious as you as to how it is they move as well.

Also, why are the numbers so exact? What proof is there that the stars are 3100 miles high? I've yet to see any tangible proof of this. It seems like a number that was pulled out of thin air by someone. I mean, what research has been put forth to confirm it is 3100 miles high? I would love to see some calculations and numbers.


I was trying to find out how that number came about too. At first, I thought that was the belief of the height of the atmosphere and they just applied it to the thought, but maybe the answer is floating around on the website somewhere?? *goes to dig through old threads*

Again, NASA isn't the only people out there. Back in 280 B.C. Aristarchus suggested the Earth revolves around the Sun. He provided the first estimation of Earth-Sun distance. In 1420, Ulugh Beg's observatory produced astronomical tables that included a catalogue of over 1,000 stars. In 1609, Galileo discovered the Milky Way. We aren't making things up here. We are riding on the back of great men over thousands of years and it has merely evolved to what it is today.

From what you?ve said, it doesn?t seem to go against their theory. However, the more I delve, the more I learn that I don?t know much about this theory (which gives me more reason to learn a bit more about it :D ). They believe that stars exist. If I?m to reference your information, then Aristarchus suggested the Earth revolved around the Sun but perhaps had no solid proof himself? And Galileo?s theory doesn?t seem to be covered in the FAQ, which makes it difficult for me to say anything on that lol (it?s probably floating around the forums somewhere as well >.< ).
 
Yes, I read over it. Horrible memory, but it was something about they're not going in a straight line like they think they are. In essence, every person to ever fly a plane and steer a ship are utter morons for not noticing they were turning. I apologize, but that's all I see in that explanation.

Well, if ships and planes rely on the directions (North, South, East, West) and North is considered towards the center of the flat earth theory?s map, then it may not seem like they?re going in a circle but straying a little from their North mark. They could also shrug it off as a human inability to steer straight. Human error.

True about the conditions, but no one wants to live there. It doesn't mean that it isn't possible to get your best gear on and go on a dangerous exhibition. Humans have been known to do that for the longest time, despite the dangers. And besides, there are many research stations in Antarctica where scientists study all sorts of things, because the conditions make it uniquely perfect to gauge several things, including astronomical research. And sorry to say, this isn't all funded by NASA.


Why would they be doing astronomical research in Antarctica? It?s snowing a lot out there, which would make it hard to even see the sky. I thought they only went to study climate, plants, and the survival of animals in that weather? (This is a random, off-the-topic question that I?m truly wondering about ^^; )

I saw an explanation pertaining to volcanoes, but not the plate tectonics. Perhaps I simply missed it, but I would still like to hear how they explain that one.

Same. But, if you think about how they talk about the earth being flat, if plate tectonics exist and move, what if they moved too much and fell off? Could that happen? O.o

A camera doesn't take round images, sorry to say. I could take a picture of a giant ball, and it would be flat. Does that mean the ball is flat? No. Besides, if you zoom out enough, there is a model of the earth that you can circle around and zoom in else where.

Besides, it goes against what they think, anyways. They think satellites don't exist. Which does bring up an odd point you said. How the hell does Goggle Earth work then? I mean, there are images there that were taking WAY above the earth and yet zoom in seamlessly. (Notice how they people commented on how they loved you/your post and failed to answer your question?)

But it?s just a model. It?s made of pixels. I could go and make a Google Flat Earth model as well. I agree on the whole picture thing though and am still wondering and waiting on an explanation of the Google Earth. Maybe, again, that?s floating around too.

Wrong. Utterly wrong. I've basically explained, but the government isn't the only one out there doing the research. It's crap to say that 'all we know is what the government tells us'. That wasn't a very well thought out response. I don't mean to be rude, I really don't, but the government only controls so much. And yes, it's a lot. I won't deny that. We need the government to control a lot, but it isn't the only thing existing out there.

Just thought you?d like to read this. Again, hasn't really got anything to do with what we're discussing, but it's still interesting.

Don't be sorry. Your post was very refreshing compared to the responses I've gotten so far. They were thought out (except what I said just above XD) and thoughtful, and now I can have the debate I wanted. =D. Btw, I love your avatar. I make all my friends watch that movie because it's so full of win.

Oh, I?m glad to hear that. :D I?m just trying to understand it myself. I can?t make it clear enough that I?m not choosing sides or anything. I really just want to understand some of this stuff so I can see that there are always two (sometimes both are valid) sides of an argument.

Yeah, I haven?t watched the movie yet because I want to read the book first *sad face*. It looks so beautiful. I actually hope to be a Geisha when I get a bit older ^^ .

By the way, thanks for having a civilized discussion with me. It?s not everyday you come across someone who will be patient and not start throwing daggers at someone for disagreeing :D .

@Anyone who thinks I?m some other person: Um? why and who?
"We sell our skills, not our bodies.
We create another secret world, a place only of beauty.
The very word "geisha" means artist and to be a geisha
is to be judged as a moving work of art."

?

HTD

  • 28
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #143 on: September 15, 2009, 06:58:55 PM »
Quote
Oh, that?s true. I have no idea about it then lol. I?m learning as much as you are on this. If this site really has agreed that planets exist then I am as curious as you as to how it is they move as well.

Exactly. And yet they refuse to answer. Like browse this thread I made with several questions. A few of them only attempted to answer one and just ignored the rest.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=32273.0

Quote
I was trying to find out how that number came about too. At first, I thought that was the belief of the height of the atmosphere and they just applied it to the thought, but maybe the answer is floating around on the website somewhere?? *goes to dig through old threads*

That?s not the only number! Incoming quotes:

Circumference: 78,225 miles
Diameter: 24,900 miles
The Earth is an infinite plane and is 9000 kilometers deep.
The sun and moon [?] rotate at a height of 3000 miles above sea level.

Why so exact? I suppose it could be significant figures, but it just seems too perfect to me. Where are these numbers coming from? How are they calculating them? Did you find anything?

 
Quote
From what you?ve said, it doesn?t seem to go against their theory. However, the more I delve, the more I learn that I don?t know much about this theory (which gives me more reason to learn a bit more about it :D ). They believe that stars exist. If I?m to reference your information, then Aristarchus suggested the Earth revolved around the Sun but perhaps had no solid proof himself? And Galileo?s theory doesn?t seem to be covered in the FAQ, which makes it difficult for me to say anything on that lol (it?s probably floating around the forums somewhere as well >.< ).

Those were just examples. Perhaps you?re correct about Aristarchus, but the three I listed are not the sole benefactors of modern astronomy. I could site hundreds of men in history that have all helped come to the conclusion that the earth is round. I?m too lazy to do this, but they?re out there.


Quote
Well, if ships and planes rely on the directions (North, South, East, West) and North is considered towards the center of the flat earth theory?s map, then it may not seem like they?re going in a circle but straying a little from their North mark. They could also shrug it off as a human inability to steer straight. Human error.

Eh. As stated in the link I provided above, it?s not just directions. They use all sorts of things. Stars, radar, and a spherical coordinate map. And I still find it utter crap that human error could be so horrible. Especially considering how technology has evolved. Planes and ships are circling the globe constantly and no one has noticed? Please.

Quote
Why would they be doing astronomical research in Antarctica? It?s snowing a lot out there, which would make it hard to even see the sky. I thought they only went to study climate, plants, and the survival of animals in that weather? (This is a random, off-the-topic question that I?m truly wondering about ^^; )

Nope. Antarctica is actually great for astronomy. Perfect some would say. The air quality is the best on earth. No pollution as no one lives there and they don?t have to worry about heat admitted form the atmosphere as it?s bloody freezing, plus it?s very dark. Not only that, but it?s extremely dry there and airborne water vapors don?t interrupt the telescopes. And as for the snowing constantly, I?m to understand that in the higher areas it?s actually very calm with little to no weather at all.

Have some articles?
http://icestories.exploratorium.edu/dispatches/big-ideas/astronomy-in-antarctica/
http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=a&id=2461
http://spaceinfo.com.au/antarctica20090902.html

Quote
Same. But, if you think about how they talk about the earth being flat, if plate tectonics exist and move, what if they moved too much and fell off? Could that happen? O.o

Logical assumption. And if they claim plate tectonics don?t exist, I?d like them to explain earthquakes and the Mariana Trench, et cetera.

Quote
But it?s just a model. It?s made of pixels. I could go and make a Google Flat Earth model as well. I agree on the whole picture thing though and am still wondering and waiting on an explanation of the Google Earth. Maybe, again, that?s floating around too.

I?m not saying the round little earth on Google Earth is substantial evidence. I was just saying, the flat images equal up to a round earth.

I?m doubting that one. Even if the figure out a way to explain how the images were taken, they?ll probably talk of editing. Which is hilarious because if you?ve seen some of the Google Earth editing that goes around (things people have found that hide army bases or government areas they don?t want seen. It?s painfully obvious, be it a pitiful blur or excessive cloning of foliage). Example:



Oh yeah. Nothing suspicious there. You?d think the government would hire some of the NASA photoshoppers if they really wanted to ensure security.

Quote
Just thought you?d like to read this. Again, hasn't really got anything to do with what we're discussing, but it's still interesting.

I?m not saying our government isn?t corrupt. Our entire nation is corrupt. The notion this country was based on is all but lost to us. I firmly believe that we are in the pockets of the rich and that it would take some serious work to get it back to how it should be. Still. When you take something like NASA and stamp a conspiracy sticker on it?I think it?s disgusting. I trust their science and all endless research that they have put forward to understand the earth better.

Quote
Oh, I?m glad to hear that. :D I?m just trying to understand it myself. I can?t make it clear enough that I?m not choosing sides or anything. I really just want to understand some of this stuff so I can see that there are always two (sometimes both are valid) sides of an argument.

Yeah, I haven?t watched the movie yet because I want to read the book first *sad face*. It looks so beautiful. I actually hope to be a Geisha when I get a bit older ^^ .

By the way, thanks for having a civilized discussion with me. It?s not everyday you come across someone who will be patient and not start throwing daggers at someone for disagreeing :D .

Well, you must believe something yes? I?m sure there is a position on which you lean. Most likely the one you believed before discovering there was a Flat Earth Society.

Are you joking?! Oh no! You must see the movie. Honestly, I don?t think the book compares. And it?s extremely rare for me to say that. It?s just?the book had the feel of an outsider telling the story. And he was. I think he was American or something, but he definitely wasn?t raised in their customs. The movie on the other hand, had that real natural feel. It was so beautiful. Are you Japanese? From what I understand, there is only one outsider in history they allowed to be a Geisha, and she had studied their ways for years without ever actually intending to become one herself.

You?re welcome! Well, I can?t say I haven?t been tempted on here. I?m so very opinionated and it?s difficult for me not to be too pushy, haha.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 07:09:03 PM by HTD »

*

Kakatary

  • 14
  • +0/-0
  • Open minded. I'm one of those rare people...
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #144 on: September 15, 2009, 07:42:29 PM »
Exactly. And yet they refuse to answer. Like browse this thread I made with several questions. A few of them only attempted to answer one and just ignored the rest.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=32273.0

Already posted :) .

Quote
That?s not the only number! Incoming quotes:

Circumference: 78,225 miles
Diameter: 24,900 miles
The Earth is an infinite plane and is 9000 kilometers deep.
The sun and moon [?] rotate at a height of 3000 miles above sea level.

Why so exact? I suppose it could be significant figures, but it just seems too perfect to me. Where are these numbers coming from? How are they calculating them? Did you find anything?

They are surprisingly exact. Maybe FEers believe that the world is so perfect that the measurements need to show that there is no room for unequal measurements? This is as much as I could find:

August 13, 2009

And?

July 23, 2009

Quote
Eh. As stated in the link I provided above, it?s not just directions. They use all sorts of things. Stars, radar, and a spherical coordinate map. And I still find it utter crap that human error could be so horrible. Especially considering how technology has evolved. Planes and ships are circling the globe constantly and no one has noticed? Please.

This is a reach but what if we?ve just grown accustomed to the circular motion to the point that we have built certain things to compliment the turn? I know, a reach, but there doesn?t seem to be a FEer helping me out here so, a reach it is XD .

Quote
Nope. Antarctica is actually great for astronomy. Perfect some would say. The air quality is the best on earth. No pollution as no one lives there and they don?t have to worry about heat admitted form the atmosphere as it?s bloody freezing, plus it?s very dark. Not only that, but it?s extremely dry there and airborne water vapors don?t interrupt the telescopes. And as for the snowing constantly, I?m to understand that in the higher areas it?s actually very calm with little to no weather at all.

Have some articles?
http://icestories.exploratorium.edu/dispatches/big-ideas/astronomy-in-antarctica/
http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=a&id=2461
http://spaceinfo.com.au/antarctica20090902.html

Ah! That would make sense! But you never really hear about people going out to Antarctica just to look at stars lol. Still, I?ve learned something new today :D

Quote
Logical assumption. And if they claim plate tectonics don?t exist, I?d like them to explain earthquakes and the Mariana Trench, et cetera.

This will be interesting for you. It?s the furthest answer that FEers have really provided.

Quote
I?m doubting that one. Even if the figure out a way to explain how the images were taken, they?ll probably talk of editing. Which is hilarious because if you?ve seen some of the Google Earth editing that goes around (things people have found that hide army bases or government areas they don?t want seen. It?s painfully obvious, be it a pitiful blur or excessive cloning of foliage). Example:



Oh yeah. Nothing suspicious there. You?d think the government would hire some of the NASA photoshoppers if they really wanted to ensure security.

Where?d that pic come from? Poor thing >.> it?s been butchered XD ! No, but seriously, why edit the pics?

Quote
I?m not saying our government isn?t corrupt. Our entire nation is corrupt. The notion this country was based on is all but lost to us. I firmly believe that we are in the pockets of the rich and that it would take some serious work to get it back to how it should be. Still. When you take something like NASA and stamp a conspiracy sticker on it?I think it?s disgusting. I trust their science and all endless research that they have put forward to understand the earth better.

Oh good, at least we?re kinda on the same page with that issue.

Quote
Well, you must believe something yes? I?m sure there is a position on which you lean. Most likely the one you believed before discovering there was a Flat Earth Society.

Are you joking?! Oh no! You must see the movie. Honestly, I don?t think the book compares. And it?s extremely rare for me to say that. It?s just?the book had the feel of an outsider telling the story. And he was. I think he was American or something, but he definitely wasn?t raised in their customs. The movie on the other hand, had that real natural feel. It was so beautiful. Are you Japanese? From what I understand, there is only one outsider in history they allowed to be a Geisha, and she had studied their ways for years without ever actually intending to become one herself.

You?re welcome! Well, I can?t say I haven?t been tempted on here. I?m so very opinionated and it?s difficult for me not to be too pushy, haha.

Well, the thing is, I don?t really want to have a side in the argument because then, if I choose to follow the facts I was taught as a kid about the earth being round, I?m closing my mind off. If I completely side with the FET, I?ll look like an idiot because I don?t understand its theories and ideas well enough yet. I?m hopping back and forth, really XD . I?m trying to be a little open minded about things right now because I?ve learned you can?t always believe what the school teaches you. I learned that out from Columbus D: he actually killed the Native Americans! They taught us that he was an awesome white dude! Grr?

Oh, ok. I?ll take your word for it. I?d really love to see it; their culture fascinates me extremely. And no, I?m not Japanese, but I have a few friends that are and can get me into it if I wanted since there is a Geisha house a few towns away from where I live. I has contacts ^^ ! lol. I don?t know, worse comes to worse, I?ll just meet a Geisha in real life. *shrug*

Lol, pushy is good. Sometimes that?s the best way to get the answers you?re searching for.
"We sell our skills, not our bodies.
We create another secret world, a place only of beauty.
The very word "geisha" means artist and to be a geisha
is to be judged as a moving work of art."

?

HTD

  • 28
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #145 on: September 15, 2009, 08:56:56 PM »
Quote
Already posted :) .

Why thank you. You?re much more thoughtful then I am. Maybe they?ll listen to you.

Quote
They are surprisingly exact. Maybe FEers believe that the world is so perfect that the measurements need to show that there is no room for unequal measurements? This is as much as I could find:

August 13, 2009

And?

July 23, 2009

I suppose your theory could be correct, but that seems a bit of a...childish notion. No, that?s not right, I can?t find the right word. Curse my horrible memory. My vocabulary suffers because of it. You get what I?m getting at though, right? And as far as those threads go, I think they only prove how shaky the FE argument is. To quote it directly:

If they take measurement of the spherical earth as a basis for a flat earth, they accept that nasa et al who measured the globe were actually correct.  therfore they are playing down their own conspiracy theory and mocking them selves.

Quote
This is a reach but what if we?ve just grown accustomed to the circular motion to the point that we have built certain things to compliment the turn? I know, a reach, but there doesn?t seem to be a FEer helping me out here so, a reach it is XD .

That sounds like something they would say. I suppose that satisfies the logical side of the argument, but there is no scientific evidence (unless someone would like to post some), so yes it is a stretch. Plus, we didn?t build the stars. -Wink-

Quote
Ah! That would make sense! But you never really hear about people going out to Antarctica just to look at stars lol. Still, I?ve learned something new today :D

Well, unless you?re like me and watch Discovery channel, History channel, Bio channel documentaries constantly. It?s amazing the things I?ve learned. And what I?ve failed to actually retain, haha. I?d be so much more intelligent if I could just remember everything I learn on those. I watch them enough, sheesh. No, but seriously, yeah I actually didn?t know ?that? much about Antarctica before I researched it. Of course, they could simply claim every article is influenced by NASA so it?s all wrong, but I?ll choose to believe them.

Quote
This will be interesting for you. It?s the furthest answer that FEers have really provided.

LOL is all I have to say. To quote this one as well:

None of [the FEers] ever started posting...

Not entirely true, but the only FEer that posted failed to make an acceptable argument.


Quote
Where?d that pic come from? Poor thing >.> it?s been butchered XD ! No, but seriously, why edit the pics?

To hide things they don?t want seen. It would be bad for dangerous countries to be able to see some places. Of course, the one I actually posted isn?t a government site, but they generally are things like that. Image retained here:

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/08/12/photoshop-cloned-tre.html

And if you?re interested in some others, here is a list of things that are blurred out:

http://www.itsecurity.com/features/51-things-not-on-google-maps-071508/

Quote
Oh good, at least we?re kinda on the same page with that issue.

Kind of.

Quote
Well, the thing is, I don?t really want to have a side in the argument because then, if I choose to follow the facts I was taught as a kid about the earth being round, I?m closing my mind off. If I completely side with the FET, I?ll look like an idiot because I don?t understand its theories and ideas well enough yet. I?m hopping back and forth, really XD . I?m trying to be a little open minded about things right now because I?ve learned you can?t always believe what the school teaches you. I learned that out from Columbus D: he actually killed the Native Americans! They taught us that he was an awesome white dude! Grr?

Oh, ok. I?ll take your word for it. I?d really love to see it; their culture fascinates me extremely. And no, I?m not Japanese, but I have a few friends that are and can get me into it if I wanted since there is a Geisha house a few towns away from where I live. I has contacts ^^ ! lol. I don?t know, worse comes to worse, I?ll just meet a Geisha in real life. *shrug*

Lol, pushy is good. Sometimes that?s the best way to get the answers you?re searching for.

Well, Columbus was awesome. Just like Hitler was awesome. Not to say that they didn?t do horrible things, but they were amazing people. Hitler was an incredible leader. For the wrong reasons, yes, but he rallied so many people behind him, you have to wonder how. Evil as he was, he was certainly good at his job. That?s just my 2 cents, though.

Oh! I?d love to meet one. They?re so beautiful and elegant. I want to meet one and see them dance with their fans. The culture is just incredible. The movie makes me hate Americans. I won?t say why or anything in particular, but you?ll see what I mean when you watch it. Where do you live, by the way? A Geisha house only a few towns away? o.o

Gah, the question marks are driving me insane. You'd think they'd be able to register basic symbols from Word/Works.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 09:00:40 PM by HTD »

*

Kakatary

  • 14
  • +0/-0
  • Open minded. I'm one of those rare people...
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #146 on: September 15, 2009, 09:16:10 PM »
Just because the quoting thing is driving me crazy, I'm going back to the standardized way of discussion lol.

I just wish the REers would enlightenment me on the ideas that they have on certain questions. Like the reason why ships and planes don't realize they're turning. I'm sure they have a reason, but I wish they would get back to me on it...

Sadly, I don't watch those channels often. Too much school work and not enough hours in the day. :/ They have very interesting shows and ideas on there that I'd be very excited to see, but, again, time is my enemy nowadays >.< .

I'll agree with you on the Hitler thing; he was considered one of the best speakers of the century. He was able to work himself up to the position he was at. It was a shame that he did the things he did. The same can be applied to Columbus, it's just the point I'm making is that schools mostly teach (up to a certain year) that Columbus was great because he found America and he was super amazing to the Indians he found there, when, in truth, that's not true. And it's quite the opposite for Hitler (he was a terrible person, killed many people, started a war) but he also had some redeeming qualities. Both the good and the bad were true, but schools only emphasize one aspect the most until a certain age.

Bleh, my rants go on and on.
"We sell our skills, not our bodies.
We create another secret world, a place only of beauty.
The very word "geisha" means artist and to be a geisha
is to be judged as a moving work of art."

?

HTD

  • 28
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #147 on: September 15, 2009, 09:23:14 PM »
Just because the quoting thing is driving me crazy, I'm going back to the standardized way of discussion lol.

I just wish the REers would enlightenment me on the ideas that they have on certain questions. Like the reason why ships and planes don't realize they're turning. I'm sure they have a reason, but I wish they would get back to me on it...

Sadly, I don't watch those channels often. Too much school work and not enough hours in the day. :/ They have very interesting shows and ideas on there that I'd be very excited to see, but, again, time is my enemy nowadays >.< .

I'll agree with you on the Hitler thing; he was considered one of the best speakers of the century. He was able to work himself up to the position he was at. It was a shame that he did the things he did. The same can be applied to Columbus, it's just the point I'm making is that schools mostly teach (up to a certain year) that Columbus was great because he found America and he was super amazing to the Indians he found there, when, in truth, that's not true. And it's quite the opposite for Hitler (he was a terrible person, killed many people, started a war) but he also had some redeeming qualities. Both the good and the bad were true, but schools only emphasize one aspect the most until a certain age.

Bleh, my rants go on and on.

The quotes are a bit annoying. They do organize the discussion well, though. Hehe.

You mean FEers, right? Yeah...the lack of answers is a tad suspicious. I mean, even a simple 'I don't know', like you said, would suffice for me.

Oh, that's unfortuate. I only get to a few times a week, but anytime I'm not doing anything, I'll look and see what's playing. I'm particularly font of the Egyptian stuff, Oooold religious stuff, and anything about the universe or the earth.

Well, we don't exactly learn about Hitler until later in our school careers and I can't really see a bunch of 10 year olds making hand turkeys and wearing belt buckle hats while the teacher goes, "And so that's why Colombus slaughtered so many Native Americans! Speaking of blood, make sure to add some red to your turkey!" LOL. Exaggeration, but it serves my purpose.

*

Kakatary

  • 14
  • +0/-0
  • Open minded. I'm one of those rare people...
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #148 on: September 15, 2009, 09:28:54 PM »
Oops, yeah I meant FEers lol.

Me too XD . If I go to college (which I'm sure I will), I'm going to study Egyptology as my major at Brown University. That's my dream job. Then comes Geisha lol. <3

I'm talking about middle school lol. Of course they're not going to tell the elementary children anything of that sort. lmao, good example though XD
"We sell our skills, not our bodies.
We create another secret world, a place only of beauty.
The very word "geisha" means artist and to be a geisha
is to be judged as a moving work of art."

?

HTD

  • 28
  • +0/-0
Re: A request for evidence.
« Reply #149 on: September 15, 2009, 09:34:44 PM »
Oops, yeah I meant FEers lol.

Me too XD . If I go to college (which I'm sure I will), I'm going to study Egyptology as my major at Brown University. That's my dream job. Then comes Geisha lol. <3

I'm talking about middle school lol. Of course they're not going to tell the elementary children anything of that sort. lmao, good example though XD

Oh. That sounds like it'd be amazing. I would love to do something like that, but I don't believe I have the intelligence for such, and I don't know what I'd do for a job. I mean, what do Egyptologists do exactly?

-Grin-
It gave me a laugh, hehe. I suppose you have a point though. Middle school is a time where they can reveal the truth. Of course, schools seem to think kids are so sensitive. They probably think we'll melt if we know people actually died.
-Gasp-
The horror!

Bleh. I gotta head to bed. Have to get up early and study about the Angelo-Saxons before my test tomorrow. YAY.
-Snicker-
I'll see you around.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 09:37:02 PM by HTD »