Infinite Infiniteness!

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dyno

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #150 on: July 12, 2009, 04:01:23 AM »
I've been to antarctica at the appropriate time and the sunsets and sunrises did not match up to the right times. 
Were you there in summer? Did you observe 24hour sunlight?

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EnigmaZV

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #151 on: July 12, 2009, 08:02:33 AM »
I was south of Cape Horn to where I could see the Antarctic landmass.  To clarify, this was too far north to see the midnight sun in its full effect, but the measured values still did not match up to publicated values for sunset/sunrise.

I was there at the time and place, at least according to round earth theory.  The times for sunset/sunrise did not match up on the way there.


Some days it was hours, others minutes.

I was moving most the time, and thus trusting mostly on the long/lats given to me by the ship.  I assume they used gps.

NOTE: I've edited his quotes to include the most relevant data, if there's any question of accuracy, I encourage you to read the original thread.  I believe I have not been unfair in my edit, but will change my post to include the full quotes if requested.
I don't know what you're implying, but you're probably wrong.

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #152 on: July 12, 2009, 09:18:01 AM »
here is a map of Tom's projection, complete with lattitude and longitude.  My previous question still has not been answered.

Am I right in thinking that The Equator on that map is the straight line across the middle from left to right?

The Equator is the line above which The Sun must pass on The Equinoxes.

On the other map The Equator is a circle around the middle of The Flat Earth and The Sun's motion on The Equinoxes makes sense (it's a simple circle [1]) ...

But The Sun's motion on the new map would be highly problematical as the two ends of The Equator are no longer joined ...

[1] Whilst this is a simple motion the compass bearings of sunset and sunrise won't be correct, though, unless light magically bends horizontally.

Like you say: no single Flat Earth map can correctly model all real-world observations because the real world is a sphere!

Edit: nice map/projection, though - thanks for taking the time to make/share it!
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 12:16:13 PM by 3 Tesla »
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #153 on: July 12, 2009, 06:04:20 PM »
Ha! no I didn't make it.  I absolutely suck with graphics.  I just noticed that Tom's map is very similar to a well known map projection called an Azimuthal projection.  I looked it up and found a picture on wikipedia.

Here's the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuthal_equidistant_projection

I apologize if it sounded like I was taking credit for that picture, the lats and long should be correct though from an RE perspective.

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #154 on: July 13, 2009, 01:49:08 AM »
Ha! no I didn't make it.  I absolutely suck with graphics. 

I applaud your honesty!

Thanks for the link, too - interesting to note that the other (traditional "Ice Wall") Flat Earth map is known as a "Polar azimuthal equidistant projection".
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #155 on: July 13, 2009, 02:01:34 AM »
Here's a thing with this map:

When planes fly from The UK to New Zealand I assume that they go north over The North Pole then "down" The International Date Line ...

But if you do that with this map you'll never get there because The Date Line splits in two before you get to New Zealand (which is at the very bottom of the map).

I'm sure that someone would have noticed/reported this anomaly!
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #156 on: July 13, 2009, 03:55:31 AM »
interesting to note that the other (traditional "Ice Wall") Flat Earth map is known as a "Polar azimuthal equidistant projection".

Est voila!

"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #157 on: July 13, 2009, 03:58:31 AM »
Current problems with the new map:

1. What route do you take when flying from UK to New Zealand?

2. What is the Sun's path during an Equinox?

Please post any answers or extra questions!
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #158 on: July 14, 2009, 06:00:21 AM »
Current problems with the new map:

1. What route do you take when flying from UK to New Zealand?

2. What is the Sun's path during an Equinox?

Please post any answers or extra questions!

Current problems with the old map (above right):

1. No South Geographical Pole for Scott/Amundsen to go to.

2. Can't have 24-hour sun in Antarctica.

3. Can't have Southern Celestial Pole due south for all observers.

4. Sunrise/sunset bearings wrong on The Equinox.

Please post any answers or extra questions!
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #159 on: July 16, 2009, 06:11:08 AM »
I was south of Cape Horn to where I could see the Antarctic landmass.  To clarify, this was too far north to see the midnight sun in its full effect, but the measured values still did not match up to publicated values for sunset/sunrise.

I was there at the time and place, at least according to round earth theory.  The times for sunset/sunrise did not match up on the way there.


Some days it was hours, others minutes.

I was moving most the time, and thus trusting mostly on the long/lats given to me by the ship.  I assume they used gps.

NOTE: I've edited his quotes to include the most relevant data, if there's any question of accuracy, I encourage you to read the original thread.  I believe I have not been unfair in my edit, but will change my post to include the full quotes if requested.
That seems about accurate.  Not only did it not match up to publicized values it also did not always match up to the times the ship itself reported as sunset/sunrise.

I don't believe I sweep the many fallings of my theory under the rug.  I'm usually the first to point them out - or at least I'm always ready to admit them.
Quantum Ab Hoc

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #160 on: July 16, 2009, 06:42:22 AM »
I was south of Cape Horn to where I could see the Antarctic landmass.  To clarify, this was too far north to see the midnight sun in its full effect, but the measured values still did not match up to publicated values for sunset/sunrise.

I was there at the time and place, at least according to round earth theory.  The times for sunset/sunrise did not match up on the way there.


Some days it was hours, others minutes.

I was moving most the time, and thus trusting mostly on the long/lats given to me by the ship.  I assume they used gps.

NOTE: I've edited his quotes to include the most relevant data, if there's any question of accuracy, I encourage you to read the original thread.  I believe I have not been unfair in my edit, but will change my post to include the full quotes if requested.
That seems about accurate.  Not only did it not match up to publicized values it also did not always match up to the times the ship itself reported as sunset/sunrise.

I don't believe I sweep the many fallings of my theory under the rug.  I'm usually the first to point them out - or at least I'm always ready to admit them.

Whilst your evidence regarding susnet time disparities is very interesting ...

I (being rather slow at times) am not sure what it is that you are actually disputing.

Could you elaborate a little for my benefit, please?

Do you doubt, for example, Scott and Amundsen's testimonies about reaching 90 degrees south (from two independent starting points on the Antarctic coastline)?
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #161 on: July 22, 2009, 05:31:00 AM »
Did we ever come to a conclusion / concensus on the Antarctica question?

Is it an "Ice Wall", or is it a finite continent?

Does the South Geographical Pole exist as a single, unique point, or is "90 degrees south" a circle?

This thread now seems to marry up with a newer one:

Measure Antarcticas Coastline. Simple Proof.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30812.0
21/07/2009+
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #162 on: July 24, 2009, 08:23:33 AM »
The vast quantity of data from The South Pole - a single, unique point in space which has been visited many times by many people of many nationalities for nearly a hundred years now - cannot be explained by any Flat Earth Model ...

Therefore The Earth is round, not flat.

So long, and thanks for all the fish good debating!
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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markjo

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #163 on: July 24, 2009, 01:08:05 PM »
Did we ever come to a conclusion / concensus on the Antarctica question?

Is it an "Ice Wall", or is it a finite continent?

Does the South Geographical Pole exist as a single, unique point, or is "90 degrees south" a circle?

This thread now seems to marry up with a newer one:

Measure Antarcticas Coastline. Simple Proof.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30812.0
21/07/2009+

There seems to be a debate among the FE'ers in the Believers forum.  We RE'ers may not be able to post, but I think that the discussion is pretty amusing.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #164 on: October 17, 2009, 11:55:32 AM »
This is the main heart of the infinite plane model.  It has to do with the unobserved myth of decreasing gravitational pull with altitude.

Given an infinite flat earth:

Infinite Flat Earth Depth and Gravitational Pull

Using Gauss's law:


Alternately, you can integrate:
Apply

to an infinite slab of density , obtaining

where A is the area of the "pillbox," G is the gravitational constant, and h is the thickness of the slab. Therefore, the gravitational acceleration is given by

Source:Wolfram.com

 a < 2*pi*G*D.

Ignore thickness on that first little sketch.  I was in a hurry when I did that I think.


I love how he hand writes it to imply that they are his thoughts.
I also love how this is supposed to prove a flat earth.
"We know that the sun is 93 million miles away and takes up 5 degrees of the sky.

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #165 on: October 17, 2009, 01:25:38 PM »
This is the main heart of the infinite plane model.  It has to do with the unobserved myth of decreasing gravitational pull with altitude.

Given an infinite flat earth:

Infinite Flat Earth Depth and Gravitational Pull

Using Gauss's law:


Alternately, you can integrate:
Apply

to an infinite slab of density , obtaining

where A is the area of the "pillbox," G is the gravitational constant, and h is the thickness of the slab. Therefore, the gravitational acceleration is given by

Source:Wolfram.com

 a < 2*pi*G*D.

Ignore thickness on that first little sketch.  I was in a hurry when I did that I think.


I love how he hand writes it to imply that they are his thoughts.
I also love how this is supposed to prove a flat earth.

  This is your warning to obey forum rules.

It is not supposed to prove a flat earth.

Thats why I cited it. They are not "my thoughts" but based off of Gauss's Law.  They are handwritten because I had not installed latex on the .net site yet.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 01:28:24 PM by John Davis »
Quantum Ab Hoc

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markjo

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #166 on: October 17, 2009, 01:57:09 PM »
Thats why I cited it. They are not "my thoughts" but based off of Gauss's Law.  They are handwritten because I had not installed latex on the .net site yet.

To be fair, you are using a version of Gauss's Law as it applies to an infinite plane (zero thickness).  Clearly, if the FE is infinite, then you should be using the infinite slab version (thickness greater than zero).

edit: Sorry markjo, hit wrong button
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 03:42:23 PM by John Davis »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #167 on: October 17, 2009, 03:42:32 PM »
Quote
Clearly, if the FE is infinite, then you should be using the infinite slab version (thickness greater than zero).
Which is listed there as a second source from Wolfram's site.  

where A is the area of the "pillbox," G is the gravitational constant, and h is the thickness of the slab.

Also, my own handwritten math adds in the thickness, though it doesn't go over exactly why I could.  In reality, I suppose I should have done it properly, but at the time no one asked any questions for why I could do it, so I figured it wasn't an issue.  Add into that I had the second source listed usually, it just never mattered until recently when you asked about it.

Using Gauss's law:




So, in fairness, both are pertaining to slabs, not planes. 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 03:49:56 PM by John Davis »
Quantum Ab Hoc

Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #168 on: October 17, 2009, 07:22:15 PM »
This is the main heart of the infinite plane model.  It has to do with the unobserved myth of decreasing gravitational pull with altitude.

Given an infinite flat earth:

Infinite Flat Earth Depth and Gravitational Pull

Using Gauss's law:


Alternately, you can integrate:
Apply

to an infinite slab of density , obtaining

where A is the area of the "pillbox," G is the gravitational constant, and h is the thickness of the slab. Therefore, the gravitational acceleration is given by

Source:Wolfram.com

 a < 2*pi*G*D.

Ignore thickness on that first little sketch.  I was in a hurry when I did that I think.


I love how he hand writes it to imply that they are his thoughts.
I also love how this is supposed to prove a flat earth.

  This is your warning to obey forum rules.

It is not supposed to prove a flat earth.

Thats why I cited it. They are not "my thoughts" but based off of Gauss's Law.  They are handwritten because I had not installed latex on the .net site yet.

I guess its not your fault people pick this up and trumpet it as flat earth proof, or is that why you posted it?
"We know that the sun is 93 million miles away and takes up 5 degrees of the sky.

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #169 on: October 19, 2009, 01:01:13 AM »
All it is meant to do is be a model to show either that an infinite plane can have a finite pull or an infinite slab can have a finite pull.

It is part of the flat earth model, but its not proof for it at all.
Quantum Ab Hoc