Infinite Infiniteness!

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magicman

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Infinite Infiniteness!
« on: June 22, 2009, 11:53:46 AM »
So whats the low down on the "Infinite Plain model"? I've got to know, does the earth have an infinite plain? Do other planets? Do other planets not having them completely discount the theory?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2009, 12:15:21 PM »
How could the planets be infinite planes?  ???

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magicman

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2009, 12:48:59 PM »
I dont think there's an infinite plain, hell I also think the earth is round as demonstrated in this launch video. Looks round to me. Also looks like a very real video of space travel :)



However you seem to suggest that the earth, being flat, does not have an edge. How can a flat object have an edge? Is it curved on the ends into the unknown bottom of our flat planet?

Tom you obviously dont understand what I am saying. If an object is flat, it has an edge, what lies beyond the edge of the object? Additionally, that the edge of this object would extend out infinitely? It must end somwhere.

Says who?



Exactly, and so we are then to suppose that the plain of the earth extends out into infinity?

What reason is there to suppose that the earth drops off into space?


Please, tell me then about the geological features about the "edges" of the planet

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2009, 01:08:14 PM »
Quote
However you seem to suggest that the earth, being flat, does not have an edge. How can a flat object have an edge? Is it curved on the ends into the unknown bottom of our flat planet?

I never said that the earth had an edge, or what it consists of if it were to exist.

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Please, tell me then about the geological features about the "edges" of the planet

The earth is not a planet.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 01:17:15 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Abysmal

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2009, 01:15:51 PM »
The earth is not a planet.
this is where REers fail. they think the earth is actually a planet. In reality it's just a flat rock accelerating constantly upward that just so happens to sustain life.
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magicman

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2009, 01:25:25 PM »
Look you can sidestep the question based on my language that doesn't fit into the language of your theory or you can attempt to answer the questions. Ok the earth is not a planet, how does that keep you from answering my question about the geological features of the ends of the, hell i dont know what to call it, "flat plain"? If the earth is flat, does it have end points, or curvature to the bottom of itself (like a dougnuts curvature minus the hole), or is it an infinite plain? This should be a simple answer considering it deals with the shape of the Earth. I am also interested in the seemingly strange phenomenon that while every other observable planet in our solar system is round, we live on a flat plain. Its as though the laws of physics, governing the formation of planets, decided to do a job differently in our case. Venus is round, as is mars, and yet Earth, in the middle of them, is flat. Why? I also notice no one has any comments on that splendid little take off into space demonstrating both a round earth, and a factual, successful, space program. Just for fun lets watch it again!

« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 01:27:41 PM by magicman »

Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2009, 01:30:34 AM »
because the earth is super cool and special, illogically.
But a sure-fire method would be to land on the top side of the sun.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2009, 01:44:07 AM »
Quote
Look you can sidestep the question based on my language that doesn't fit into the language of your theory or you can attempt to answer the questions. Ok the earth is not a planet, how does that keep you from answering my question about the geological features of the ends of the, hell i dont know what to call it, "flat plain"? If the earth is flat, does it have end points, or curvature to the bottom of itself (like a dougnuts curvature minus the hole), or is it an infinite plain? This should be a simple answer considering it deals with the shape of the Earth.

All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

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I am also interested in the seemingly strange phenomenon that while every other observable planet in our solar system is round, we live on a flat plain. Its as though the laws of physics, governing the formation of planets, decided to do a job differently in our case.

The earth is not a planet.

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Venus is round, as is mars, and yet Earth, in the middle of them, is flat. Why?

The earth is not "in the middle" of Venus and Mars. It's below them.

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I also notice no one has any comments on that splendid little take off into space demonstrating both a round earth, and a factual, successful, space program. Just for fun lets watch it again!


Launching a rocket into the atmosphere until it disappears from sight does nothing to demonstrate that the earth is a globe. The US stole its rocket technology from Nazi Germany, which could also send up rockets straight up into the air until they were out of sight.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 04:56:39 AM by Tom Bishop »

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2009, 02:08:03 AM »
All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

Exactly how is this known?

And by whom?

And when?
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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magicman

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2009, 09:22:56 AM »
That didn't look like the atmosphere to me Tom, infact it looked like space, and they were up high enough to demonstrate the curvature and roundness of the earth. I'm convinced you didn't watch all of it because after the 7 minute mark you can CLEARLY WITHOUT A DOUBT see a round earth.

And again, with your answering of questions...you point out an incorrect wording in my statement rather than deal with a real issue. Ok so EArth is beneath mars and venus...That still doesnt explain why the earth is flat and all of the Planets (OK, earth isnt a planet, dont tell me that again) are ROUND. What physical phenomenon governened the creation of a flat earth amongst a bunch of spheres?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 09:34:54 AM by magicman »

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2009, 09:35:19 AM »
That still doesnt explain why the earth is flat and all of the Planets (OK, earth isnt a planet, dont tell me that again) are ROUND. What physical phenomenon governened the creation of a flat earth amongst a bunch of spheres?

How do you know that the planets are spheres?
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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magicman

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2009, 10:01:07 AM »
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/206510main_hstimgMARS_200711218_HI.jpg
http://www.bco.ie/IYA/mars.jpg

These 2 photos show some of Mar's sides, demonstrating curvature...but I assuming since they were taken by NASA and it's just a model they made to fool us...or are they...
It would seem as though the FAQ asserts to the roundness as well:

Q: "Why are other celestial bodies round but not the Earth?"

A: The Earth is not one of the other planets. The Earth is special and unlike the other bodies in numerous ways.

I can't help ask myself though...Can the earth really be that "special"? For the longest time we were special in that the universe and all bodies in our solar system revolved around our Earth. Such a geocentric idea was soon disproven, however to now propose a "special" flat plain called earth, to me, seems to be more geocentricism.

I shall once again post the video of a launch CLEARLY demonstrating the earth's curvature showing that indeed we are NOT "special", but that we are round like everyone else. If you go to the 7:00 mark and onward this will all be very obvious. However you should probably watch the whole thing to realize its not "fake" or whatever other false assumptions that might be made.


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Moon squirter

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2009, 10:35:37 AM »
All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

Do you have any evidence to support this perpetual plane?  You must have because it is "known". 
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2009, 12:33:35 PM »
All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

Do you have any evidence to support this perpetual plane?  You must have because it is "known". 

All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

Exactly how is this known?

And by whom?

And when?

Yes, Tom: please do explain exactly how you "know" so much about Antactica.

And given your recent rant about how "astronomy is only an observational science" ...

Because you cannot control your experimental variables ...

Please be specific about the experimental variables that you used to come to your Antarctic knowledge.
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Soze

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2009, 08:39:10 PM »
Yes, Tom: please do explain exactly how you "know" so much about Antarctica.
If I recall, I believe he has ship records and experimental logs from explorers before the systems of disinformation were as fine tuned as they have gotten today. But I know too little of his personal expeditions to comment.

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2009, 11:57:26 PM »
All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

Do you have any evidence to support this perpetual plane?  You must have because it is "known".  

All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

Exactly how is this known?

And by whom?

And when?

Yes, Tom: please do explain exactly how you "know" so much about Antactica.

And given your recent rant about how "astronomy is only an observational science" ...

Because you cannot control your experimental variables ...

Please be specific about the experimental variables that you used to come to your Antarctic knowledge.

Why are you such an expert on Antarctica, Tom?

« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 02:47:52 AM by 3 Tesla »
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Nemiades

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2009, 01:35:16 AM »
Quote
I also notice no one has any comments on that splendid little take off into space demonstrating both a round earth, and a factual, successful, space program. Just for fun lets watch it again!


Launching a rocket into the atmosphere until it disappears from sight does nothing to demonstrate that the earth is a globe. The US stole its rocket technology from Nazi Germany, which could also send up rockets straight up into the air until they were out of sight.
HAHAHHAHAAAHHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAHAAAA !!!!  BWHAHAHAHHAAAAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHHAHAAAAA !!! AAAAAAAAAAHHHH !!!! HAHAAA !!

Dude.. Man.. Youre a great troll. Ill mail you a medal just for that.


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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2009, 08:39:51 AM »
HAHAHHAHAAAHHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAHAAAA !!!!  BWHAHAHAHHAAAAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHHAHAAAAA !!! AAAAAAAAAAHHHH !!!! HAHAAA !!

Dude.. Man.. Youre a great troll. Ill mail you a medal just for that.
Posts like that aren't contributing to the discussion. Please refrain from posting worthless comments.
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elodbob

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2009, 05:42:17 PM »

 The US stole its rocket technology from Nazi Germany, which could also send up rockets straight up into the air until they were out of sight.

I just wanted to point out that this is exceptionally irrelevant to everything else said in this thread.


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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2009, 02:48:21 AM »
All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

Do you have any evidence to support this perpetual plane?  You must have because it is "known".  

All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

Exactly how is this known?

And by whom?

And when?

Yes, Tom: please do explain exactly how you "know" so much about Antactica.

And given your recent rant about how "astronomy is only an observational science" ...

Because you cannot control your experimental variables ...

Please be specific about the experimental variables that you used to come to your Antarctic knowledge.

Why are you such an expert on Antarctica, Tom?


Come on, Tom - please give us your scientific references to support your knowledge that "Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow".

If you don't, then we'll be forced to assume that you are 'talking out of your ass'.
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Atom Man

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2009, 04:13:32 AM »
Quote
However you seem to suggest that the earth, being flat, does not have an edge. How can a flat object have an edge? Is it curved on the ends into the unknown bottom of our flat planet?

I never said that the earth had an edge, or what it consists of if it were to exist.

Quote
Please, tell me then about the geological features about the "edges" of the planet

The earth is not a planet.

To me this seems like Bishop can't even support his own theory. If you can not clearly define FET then how can you defend it?

From my understanding by definition the Earth is a planet (first and original). Rather than saying that Earth is not a planet, would it not be more appropriate to rename "all the other planets."
Urinal Etiquette is like Ghost Busting: Never Cross the Streams

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2009, 01:47:25 AM »
All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

Do you have any evidence to support this perpetual plane?  You must have because it is "known".  

All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

Exactly how is this known?

And by whom?

And when?

Yes, Tom: please do explain exactly how you "know" so much about Antactica.

And given your recent rant about how "astronomy is only an observational science" ...

Because you cannot control your experimental variables ...

Please be specific about the experimental variables that you used to come to your Antarctic knowledge.

Why are you such an expert on Antarctica, Tom?


Come on, Tom - please give us your scientific references to support your knowledge that "Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow".

If you don't, then we'll be forced to assume that you are 'talking out of your ass'.


Is Tom on holiday ... or just hiding?
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2009, 01:38:39 AM »
All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

Do you have any evidence to support this perpetual plane?  You must have because it is "known".  

All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

Exactly how is this known?

And by whom?

And when?

Yes, Tom: please do explain exactly how you "know" so much about Antactica.

And given your recent rant about how "astronomy is only an observational science" ...

Because you cannot control your experimental variables ...

Please be specific about the experimental variables that you used to come to your Antarctic knowledge.

Why are you such an expert on Antarctica, Tom?


Come on, Tom - please give us your scientific references to support your knowledge that "Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow".

If you don't, then we'll be forced to assume that you are 'talking out of your ass'.


Is Tom on holiday ... or just hiding?

Tom is back posting today - so hopefully we'll get an answer to the above ...
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2009, 12:57:43 PM »
All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

Do you have any evidence to support this perpetual plane?  You must have because it is "known".  

All that is known at present is that the coast of Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow.

Exactly how is this known?

And by whom?

And when?

Yes, Tom: please do explain exactly how you "know" so much about Antactica.

And given your recent rant about how "astronomy is only an observational science" ...

Because you cannot control your experimental variables ...

Please be specific about the experimental variables that you used to come to your Antarctic knowledge.

Why are you such an expert on Antarctica, Tom?


Come on, Tom - please give us your scientific references to support your knowledge that "Antarctica stretches out into a seemingly perpetual  expanse of ice and snow".

If you don't, then we'll be forced to assume that you are 'talking out of your ass'.


The Ice Wall was discovered by Sir James Clark Ross, a polar explorer who was among the first to venture to Antarctica in an attempt to determine the position of the South Magnetic Pole. Upon confronting the massive vertical front of of ice he famously remarked

    "It was ... an obstruction of such character as to leave no doubt in my mind as to our future proceedings, for we might as well sail through the cliffs of Dover as to penetrate such a mass.

    It would be impossible to conceive a more solid-looking mass of ice; not the smallest appearance of any rent or fissure could we discover throughout its whole extent, and the intensely bright sky beyond it but too plainly indicated the great distance to which it reached southward."

Beyond the 150 foot Ice Wall is anyone's guess. How far the ice extends; how it terminates; and what exists beyond it, are questions to which no present human experience can reply. All we at present know is, that snow and hail, howling winds, and indescribable storms and hurricanes prevail; and that in every direction "human ingress is barred by unsealed escarpments of perpetual ice," extending farther than eye or telescope can penetrate, and becoming lost in gloom and darkness. Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham held that knowing the true dimensions of the Earth is something which will be forever be unknowable by man.

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2009, 01:05:47 PM »
The Ice Wall was discovered by Sir James Clark Ross, a polar explorer who was among the first to venture to Antarctica in an attempt to determine the position of the South Magnetic Pole.

Could you please explain why you choose to accept as true the testimony of Ross from 1843 ...

But you dismiss as false the testimonies of Scott and Amudsen - who went to the South Pole - from 1912?

How are these pieces of evidence any different?
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Moon squirter

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2009, 02:15:19 PM »
Beyond the 150 foot Ice Wall is anyone's guess. How far the ice extends; how it terminates; and what exists beyond it, are questions to which no present human experience can reply. All we at present know is, that snow and hail, howling winds, and indescribable storms and hurricanes prevail; and that in every direction "human ingress is barred by unsealed escarpments of perpetual ice," extending farther than eye or telescope can penetrate, and becoming lost in gloom and darkness. Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham held that knowing the true dimensions of the Earth is something which will be forever be unknowable by man.

PSEUDOSCIENCE

10. Pseudoscience deliberately creates mystery where none exists, by omitting crucial information and important details.
Anything can be made "mysterious" by omitting what is known about it or presenting completely imaginary details. The "Bermuda Triangle" books are classic examples of this tactic.

All the examples Tom cites are over 100 years old.  This is crucial because it's before aircraft and relies on the accounts of a few "explorers" whose accounts are open to poetic interpretation.  For example, ambiguous comments such as "we might as well sail through the cliffs of Dover" and "It would be impossible to conceive a more solid-looking mass of ice" don't actually tell us anything.

For the last 50 years there has been a permanent scientific population, include the Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station, which is locate 100 metres from the geographic SP.

« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 02:24:05 PM by Moon squirter »
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2009, 04:31:30 AM »
The Ice Wall was discovered by Sir James Clark Ross, a polar explorer who was among the first to venture to Antarctica in an attempt to determine the position of the South Magnetic Pole.

Could you please explain why you choose to accept as true the testimony of Ross from 1843 ...

But you dismiss as false the testimonies of Scott and Amudsen - who went to the South Pole - from 1912?

How are these pieces of evidence any different?

Can we have an answer on this one please, Tom?
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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equinox

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2009, 08:14:13 AM »
Indeed scientist Tom.  What, in your way of thinking, makes one finding factual and worthy of your "stamp of truth", and the other easily dismissable?

Please enlighten us on this important distinction.

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2009, 11:45:33 AM »
This is the main heart of the infinite plane model.  It has to do with the unobserved myth of decreasing gravitational pull with altitude.

Given an infinite flat earth:

Infinite Flat Earth Depth and Gravitational Pull

Using Gauss's law:


Alternately, you can integrate:
Apply

to an infinite slab of density , obtaining

where A is the area of the "pillbox," G is the gravitational constant, and h is the thickness of the slab. Therefore, the gravitational acceleration is given by

Source:Wolfram.com

 a < 2*pi*G*D.

Ignore thickness on that first little sketch.  I was in a hurry when I did that I think.
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trig

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2009, 12:50:53 PM »
The Ice Wall was discovered by Sir James Clark Ross, a polar explorer who was among the first to venture to Antarctica in an attempt to determine the position of the South Magnetic Pole.

Could you please explain why you choose to accept as true the testimony of Ross from 1843 ...

But you dismiss as false the testimonies of Scott and Amudsen - who went to the South Pole - from 1912?

How are these pieces of evidence any different?
Tom Bishop does not only dismiss the testimonies of Scott and Amundsen, he dismisses the testimony of Sir James Clarke Ross himself. His journals describe in detail how this wall does not go all around Antarctica, it only covers the shoreline of the Ross Ice Shelf. He even includes diagrams of places where there are no ice walls at all, just some flat lands and some mountains.

Of course, even the magnificent 150 feet ice wall is of no consequence for the explorers that take mountain climbing gear. James Clarke Ross, on the other hand, went in a boat, possibly without any gear for deep land exploration. As far as I know, he did explore inland, just not where he would have to climb an ice wall.

This is intellectual fraud. He knows he does not have a case at all, he almost certainly read the whole journals, but decided to try and deceive you.