Infinite Infiniteness!

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2009, 04:04:07 AM »
This is intellectual fraud. He knows he does not have a case at all, he almost certainly read the whole journals, but decided to try and deceive you.

O dear ...

Tom would appear to be a fraudulent sharlatan out to deceive people ...

Just like his hero Rowbotham back in the 1880s.

That's shoddy, old chap! Quite shoddy!
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2009, 04:13:42 AM »
This is intellectual fraud. He knows he does not have a case at all, he almost certainly read the whole journals, but decided to try and deceive you.

Here is an excellent archived post which shows how Tom only posts "Ice Wall" photos which support his thoery.

I.e yet more highly selective / skewed / biased presentation of data:

Already done. Here is the 150 foot tall shelf of ice at the coast of Antarctica: http://i23.tinypic.com/nwkp5t.jpg

fyi, here is his "ice wall" photo in it's full context which bishop does not want you to see, taken in november 2000 by the national science foundation:

partial context, web page

fuller context, text search for " B-15A iceberg edge"

bishop is nothing more than a con-artist, knowingly passing off isolated photos of the ross ice shelf as a globe-spanning ice wall.
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2009, 05:39:36 AM »
This is the main heart of the infinite plane model.  It has to do with the unobserved myth of decreasing gravitational pull with altitude.

Given an infinite flat earth:

Infinite Flat Earth Depth and Gravitational Pull

Using Gauss's law:


Alternately, you can integrate:
Apply

to an infinite slab of density , obtaining

where A is the area of the "pillbox," G is the gravitational constant, and h is the thickness of the slab. Therefore, the gravitational acceleration is given by

Source:Wolfram.com

 a < 2*pi*G*D.

Ignore thickness on that first little sketch.  I was in a hurry when I did that I think.


I like this model a lot.

I think it is cool how an infinite amount of matter, when spread out thinly, can give rise to a well-defined and finite gravitational force.

I would like to live in a Universe like that!
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Squat

Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2009, 05:42:23 AM »
Just eat smaller meals!   ;D

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2009, 08:29:34 AM »
This is intellectual fraud. He knows he does not have a case at all, he almost certainly read the whole journals, but decided to try and deceive you.

bishop is nothing more than a con-artist, knowingly passing off isolated photos of the ross ice shelf as a globe-spanning ice wall.

If Tom is, indeed, a "con artist" and an "intellectual fraud" ...

Is that grounds for a life-time ban from this forum?
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2009, 01:57:33 AM »
The Ice Wall was discovered by Sir James Clark Ross, a polar explorer who was among the first to venture to Antarctica in an attempt to determine the position of the South Magnetic Pole.

Could you please explain why you choose to accept as true the testimony of Ross from 1843 ...

But you dismiss as false the testimonies of Scott and Amudsen - who went to the South Pole - from 1912?

How are these pieces of evidence any different?

Can we have an answer on this one please, Tom?

Any chance of a comment, Tom?
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Username

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2009, 02:01:55 AM »
This is the main heart of the infinite plane model.  It has to do with the unobserved myth of decreasing gravitational pull with altitude.

Given an infinite flat earth:

Infinite Flat Earth Depth and Gravitational Pull

Using Gauss's law:


Alternately, you can integrate:
Apply

to an infinite slab of density , obtaining

where A is the area of the "pillbox," G is the gravitational constant, and h is the thickness of the slab. Therefore, the gravitational acceleration is given by

Source:Wolfram.com

 a < 2*pi*G*D.

Ignore thickness on that first little sketch.  I was in a hurry when I did that I think.


I like this model a lot.

I think it is cool how an infinite amount of matter, when spread out thinly, can give rise to a well-defined and finite gravitational force.

I would like to live in a Universe like that!
Then rejoice - you do!
If you can't argue both sides, you understand neither

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2009, 02:14:57 AM »
I would like to live in a Universe like that!
Then rejoice - you do!

:-)
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2009, 02:16:20 AM »
The Ice Wall was discovered by Sir James Clark Ross, a polar explorer who was among the first to venture to Antarctica in an attempt to determine the position of the South Magnetic Pole.

Could you please explain why you choose to accept as true the testimony of Ross from 1843 ...

But you dismiss as false the testimonies of Scott and Amudsen - who went to the South Pole - from 1912?

How are these pieces of evidence any different?

Can we have an answer on this one please, Tom?

Any chance of a comment, Tom?

If Tom doesn't give us an answer ...

Then we can only conclude that he does not wish to defend himself against the accusations of intellectual dishonesty.
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2009, 04:29:40 AM »
I never said that the entire antarctic rim was one complete wall. There are actually a series of thousand mile long walls, divided by Transantarctic Mountain Ranges up to 11,500 feet high. The weight of The Ice Walls are so enormous that they have literally pressed the land two thirds of a mile (one kilometer) into the earth. Under the massive forces of their own weight, the ice walls deform and drag themselves outward. Very large glaciers called ice streams flow through them continually, transporting ice from deep inland out to the sea.

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2009, 07:49:50 AM »
I never said that the entire antarctic rim was one complete wall. There are actually a series of thousand mile long walls, divided by Transantarctic Mountain Ranges up to 11,500 feet high. The weight of The Ice Walls are so enormous that they have literally pressed the land two thirds of a mile (one kilometer) into the earth. Under the massive forces of their own weight, the ice walls deform and drag themselves outward. Very large glaciers called ice streams flow through them continually, transporting ice from deep inland out to the sea.

Why believe Ross's testimony but not those of Scott or Amundsen?

Edit - as asked before:

The Ice Wall was discovered by Sir James Clark Ross, a polar explorer who was among the first to venture to Antarctica in an attempt to determine the position of the South Magnetic Pole.

Could you please explain why you choose to accept as true the testimony of Ross from 1843 ...

But you dismiss as false the testimonies of Scott and Amudsen - who went to the South Pole - from 1912?

How are these pieces of evidence any different?

Can we have an answer on this one please, Tom?

Any chance of a comment, Tom?

If Tom doesn't give us an answer ...

Then we can only conclude that he does not wish to defend himself against the accusations of intellectual dishonesty.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 08:12:11 AM by 3 Tesla »
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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markjo

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2009, 08:08:08 AM »
I never said that the entire antarctic rim was one complete wall. There are actually a series of thousand mile long walls, divided by Transantarctic Mountain Ranges up to 11,500 feet high. The weight of The Ice Walls are so enormous that they have literally pressed the land two thirds of a mile (one kilometer) into the earth. Under the massive forces of their own weight, the ice walls deform and drag themselves outward. Very large glaciers called ice streams flow through them continually, transporting ice from deep inland out to the sea.

Why believe Ross's testimony but not those of Scott or Amundsen?

Because Ross's testimony does not contradict FET.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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trig

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2009, 11:21:17 AM »
I never said that the entire antarctic rim was one complete wall. There are actually a series of thousand mile long walls, divided by Transantarctic Mountain Ranges up to 11,500 feet high. The weight of The Ice Walls are so enormous that they have literally pressed the land two thirds of a mile (one kilometer) into the earth. Under the massive forces of their own weight, the ice walls deform and drag themselves outward. Very large glaciers called ice streams flow through them continually, transporting ice from deep inland out to the sea.
But you do play with the idea of a wall that cannot be surmounted when it suits your interests. Truth is, every square mile of Antarctica is reachable for a well organized expedition. Its as if I said that England has an almost insurmountable 300 feet wall protecting its coastline, which is, of course, true. But anyone who has visited England knows that the wall (the White Cliffs of Dover) is only a minor or nonexistent hindrance to visitors of England since it covers only a part of the coastline.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2009, 03:58:53 PM »
Quote
Why believe Ross's testimony but not those of Scott or Amundsen?

That depends. What do you call the South Pole? An area where the magnetic field lines are vertical?

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2009, 04:05:52 PM »
Quote
Why believe Ross's testimony but not those of Scott or Amundsen?

That depends. What do you call the South Pole? An area where the magnetic field lines are vertical?
Have you any evidence that any of them went for magnetic South Pole and not for geographic South Pole?
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2009, 04:51:27 PM »
Quote
Why believe Ross's testimony but not those of Scott or Amundsen?

That depends. What do you call the South Pole? An area where the magnetic field lines are vertical?
Have you any evidence that any of them went for magnetic South Pole and not for geographic South Pole?

Why? Where did they go and what instruments did they use?

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markjo

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2009, 05:18:51 PM »
Quote
Why believe Ross's testimony but not those of Scott or Amundsen?

That depends. What do you call the South Pole? An area where the magnetic field lines are vertical?

I call the point at 90 degrees south latitude the geographic south pole.  Now will you please answer 3 Tesla's question?

Why believe Ross's testimony but not those of Scott or Amundsen?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2009, 05:42:26 PM »
Quote
Now will you please answer 3 Tesla's question?
Quote
Why believe Ross's testimony but not those of Scott or Amundsen?

What's there to believe? That they went to a location under Sigma Octantis (the south pole star) and came back?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 05:44:31 PM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2009, 07:05:53 PM »
Quote
Now will you please answer 3 Tesla's question?
Quote
Why believe Ross's testimony but not those of Scott or Amundsen?

What's there to believe? That they went to a location under Sigma Octantis (the south pole star) and came back?

Just out of curiosity, which southern celestial gear is Sigma Octantis the hub of?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2009, 07:38:40 PM »
Just out of curiosity, which southern celestial gear is Sigma Octantis the hub of?

The one southward of South America, Africa, and Australia.

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markjo

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2009, 07:45:35 PM »
Just out of curiosity, which southern celestial gear is Sigma Octantis the hub of?

The one southward of South America, Africa, and Australia.

I thought that you supported the idea that there are multiple celestial gears over the southern hemiplane.  How can all three souther hemiplane continents share the same south pole star if they each have different celestial gears above them?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #51 on: July 05, 2009, 08:23:59 PM »
I thought that you supported the idea that there are multiple celestial gears over the southern hemiplane.  How can all three souther hemiplane continents share the same south pole star if they each have different celestial gears above them?

South America, Africa, and Australia are pointing towards the same celestial star system.

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markjo

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #52 on: July 05, 2009, 09:01:41 PM »
I thought that you supported the idea that there are multiple celestial gears over the southern hemiplane.  How can all three souther hemiplane continents share the same south pole star if they each have different celestial gears above them?

South America, Africa, and Australia are pointing towards the same celestial star system.

How is that possible?  According to this map, South America and Australia are pointing about 180 degrees away from each other.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 09:03:17 PM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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ogeitla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #53 on: July 05, 2009, 09:16:01 PM »



Can't you put something in the top left corner? Seems kind of a waste of space.

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Squat

Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #54 on: July 05, 2009, 10:05:14 PM »
I thought that you supported the idea that there are multiple celestial gears over the southern hemiplane.  How can all three souther hemiplane continents share the same south pole star if they each have different celestial gears above them?

South America, Africa, and Australia are pointing towards the same celestial star system.


South America, Africa and Australia are not road signs, they are not pointing anywhere. The shapes of South America and Africa could loosley be described as 'arrowheads' pointing south but Australia couldn't. As I doubt you have seen all of those two large land masses (South America and Africa) from such a height as to see their entirety you can only know their shape from the work of others, either on a map based on a the theory of a round earth or on a map based on Flat earth theory. You have no direct observation yourself so how can you say they are pointing?

Incidentally, I asked two questions in another thread and as they relate to South America and Africa what are your answers to them? Have have you ever been to South Africa Mr Bishop? Being able to get well away from cities with a corresponding lack of light pollution, the night sky is wonderful but it was strange for me, coming from Europe to see the constellation of Orion 'upside down'!  Anyway, my questions

In RET it is 6664 kilometres from Cape Point in South Africa to Cape Horn in South America across the Southern Atlantic Ocean.

What, in FET is the distance from Cape Point in South Africa to Cape Horn in South America across the Southern Atlantic Ocean?

In RET, travelling from Cape Point in South Africa to Cape Horn in South America across the Southern Atlantic Ocean, a distance of 6664 kilometres, at an average speed of 25 kph will take 266.56 hours.

What, in FET will be the time it takes to travel from Cape Point in South Africa to Cape Horn in South America across the Southern Atlantic Ocean at an average speed of 25 kph?



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zork

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #55 on: July 05, 2009, 11:23:24 PM »
Quote
Why believe Ross's testimony but not those of Scott or Amundsen?

That depends. What do you call the South Pole? An area where the magnetic field lines are vertical?
Have you any evidence that any of them went for magnetic South Pole and not for geographic South Pole?

Why? Where did they go and what instruments did they use?
They went for geographic South pole and you measure your geographic location with sextant. Amundsen used it also.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

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3 Tesla

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2009, 02:13:56 AM »
Quote
Now will you please answer 3 Tesla's question?
Quote
Why believe Ross's testimony but not those of Scott or Amundsen?

What's there to believe? That they went to a location under Sigma Octantis (the south pole star) and came back?

When Amundsen reached The South Geographical Pole ...

He set up a pole in the ground ...

And observed that the length of the shadow was constant over a 24 hour period.

An experiment that can only make sense if The South Geographical Pole is at the bottom of a global Earth.

(Sorry - can't find a written reference to this, but I saw it in a documentary on BBC.)
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2009, 03:14:58 PM »
Quote
How is that possible?  According to this map, South America and Australia are pointing about 180 degrees away from each other.

That map is just an azimuthal projection of the RE. The true map of the earth looks something like this:

http://theflatearthsociety.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=059bd408775a4746d2eecc3f5fb772ed&topic=544.0

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markjo

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2009, 06:01:26 PM »
Quote
How is that possible?  According to this map, South America and Australia are pointing about 180 degrees away from each other.

That map is just an azimuthal projection of the RE. The true map of the earth looks something like this:

http://theflatearthsociety.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=059bd408775a4746d2eecc3f5fb772ed&topic=544.0

You're joking, right?  Why is the geographic north pole not in the center of that map as is proposed by FET?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Infinite Infiniteness!
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2009, 06:27:33 PM »
You're joking, right?  Why is the geographic north pole not in the center of that map as is proposed by FET?

Why would it need to?