Death Sentence

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Moonlit

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2008, 07:31:18 AM »
Everybody starts with rights, but if you kill someone, you essentially forfeit yours. It's this rights-with-responsibilities idea that forms the basis of all justice. What would you base your system on?

Then that means they are not rights but privileges.  And also, I don't think it's wrong to kill a killer.  So there are not two wrongs in the situation.  Like you said, they forfiet everything when they commit murder.  I don't see them as human any longer when they do the disgusting things they do. 
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2008, 08:28:06 AM »
Everybody starts with rights, but if you kill someone, you essentially forfeit yours. It's this rights-with-responsibilities idea that forms the basis of all justice. What would you base your system on?

Then that means they are not rights but privileges.  And also, I don't think it's wrong to kill a killer.  So there are not two wrongs in the situation.  Like you said, they forfiet everything when they commit murder.  I don't see them as human any longer when they do the disgusting things they do. 

Let's paint a picture. A man is living at the very edge of society, scraping survival as best he can. It's not his fault, he had a great job until the company he worked for went bust. Now he finds out that so many others are competing for the worst work. The bank forecloses on his house and he's on the streets, now what company will hire a bum from the street?

Now one night a woman walks past after a night out and her purse is stuffed with cash she doesn't really need and he hasn't eaten properly for a week. He threatens her with a broken bottle but she struggles, in the scuffle the bottle cuts her artery and she dies in minutes.

He never meant to kill her, he only wanted to survive, the police catch him, find him guilty of murder. Is he also going to face the death penalty along with the bastards who poisoned their grandmother to get their inheritance?   

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Moonlit

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2008, 09:04:59 AM »
Everybody starts with rights, but if you kill someone, you essentially forfeit yours. It's this rights-with-responsibilities idea that forms the basis of all justice. What would you base your system on?

Then that means they are not rights but privileges.  And also, I don't think it's wrong to kill a killer.  So there are not two wrongs in the situation.  Like you said, they forfiet everything when they commit murder.  I don't see them as human any longer when they do the disgusting things they do. 

Let's paint a picture. A man is living at the very edge of society, scraping survival as best he can. It's not his fault, he had a great job until the company he worked for went bust. Now he finds out that so many others are competing for the worst work. The bank forecloses on his house and he's on the streets, now what company will hire a bum from the street?

Now one night a woman walks past after a night out and her purse is stuffed with cash she doesn't really need and he hasn't eaten properly for a week. He threatens her with a broken bottle but she struggles, in the scuffle the bottle cuts her artery and she dies in minutes.

He never meant to kill her, he only wanted to survive, the police catch him, find him guilty of murder. Is he also going to face the death penalty along with the bastards who poisoned their grandmother to get their inheritance?   

No....My examples were of men who knowingly and willfully killed for greed or pleasure or what have you.  The man who accidentally kills a woman in a botched mugging was never something I brought up.  I even feel the man who kills a man for raping and murdering his wife/girlfriend/daughter doesn't deserve the death penalty.  Like I said in my original post, I agree with it for some people but not for all.  There's a fine line I draw and in most cases I straddle it.  The man who kills the woman in a botched mugging obviously didn't do it because he got any kind of sick pleasure out of it.  That's no more punishable by death than using cut throat techniques to get ahead in life.
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?

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Parsifal

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2008, 09:12:27 AM »
I don't believe in revenge, partly because it is subjective, but partly because it leads to a vicious cycle that prevents peace from ever becoming. However, the death penalty, as enforced by the State, is something I do not have a strong opinion on either way.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Dead Kangaroo

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2008, 09:19:56 AM »
Texas should develop the first Execution drive through, a noose tied firmly to the drive through a driver (the excutioner) and the passenger gets the noose put around his neck, the driver floors it.

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ILiekMudkips

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2008, 10:08:21 AM »
Murderers should not be killed, but made to do valuable work for society - such as running on a treadmill to generate electrical power to conserve natural resources - in prison 18 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Robosteve doesn't understand the amount of carbon generated would be higher than using methane.

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Recusant

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2008, 10:31:16 AM »
Then that means they are not rights but privileges.
Precisely.
"Philosophy wasn't the same. The school had to be completely changed, but it could be changed because we had learned our lesson."
- Michelle Vian

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Raist

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2008, 10:34:52 AM »
They infringed on the most basic of all human rights, they lost their own.
Either everyone has rights or no one does. Why stoop to their level? Two wrongs do not make a right.
You forfeit your rights when you infringe on the rights of others. That is why killing someone is justified in self defense. If everyone has the right to be free, jail does not make sense.

When you stop following the simple rules of society, you forfeit the benefits of society.

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Recusant

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2008, 10:37:31 AM »
Then that means they are not rights but privileges.
"Philosophy wasn't the same. The school had to be completely changed, but it could be changed because we had learned our lesson."
- Michelle Vian

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Parsifal

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2008, 01:11:54 PM »
Murderers should not be killed, but made to do valuable work for society - such as running on a treadmill to generate electrical power to conserve natural resources - in prison 18 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Robosteve doesn't understand the amount of carbon generated would be higher than using methane.

Carbon is generated? I didn't realise murderers contained nuclear reactors.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Vauxhall

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2008, 01:13:11 PM »
If it'll get more black people off the streets, then I'm for it.
Read the FAQS.

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General Douchebag

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2008, 02:01:34 PM »
Then that means they are not rights but privileges.

No, it doesn't. Rights can be revoked.
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>

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Wendy

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2008, 04:01:24 PM »
If it'll get more black people off the streets, then I'm for it.

You would. Nazi.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2008, 04:28:27 PM »
Saddam weighs in:

I'm definitely against the death penalty (insert bad jokes about my near-execution here) for the reasons already mentioned about revenge and "two wrongs".  Kudos all around to everyone who spared me from spending a long time typing.  That being said, I think I see where Moonlit is coming from.  It's definitely hard to try and defend the man who raped and murdered your child.  However, not every case is a clear-cut "he deserves to die".  And unfortunately, we either execute murderers or we don't.  Therefore, I don't support executing even the monsters.  Not for their sake, but for the sake of those with mitigating circumstances who don't quite deserve to die.

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Raist

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2008, 04:36:42 PM »
Murderers should not be killed, but made to do valuable work for society - such as running on a treadmill to generate electrical power to conserve natural resources - in prison 18 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Robosteve doesn't understand the amount of carbon generated would be higher than using methane.

Carbon is generated? I didn't realise murderers contained nuclear reactors.

No, chemicals containing carbon are generated. I did not say anything about atoms being created, that is silly in everyday situations. Assuming that meaning in that sentence really doesn't say many good things about you.

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Parsifal

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2008, 07:05:00 PM »
No, chemicals containing carbon are generated. I did not say anything about atoms being created, that is silly in everyday situations. Assuming that meaning in that sentence really doesn't say many good things about you.

The statement was "the amount of carbon generated". Carbon is an element with six protons in its atomic nucleus; the only way it can be created is to remove protons from heavier elements or add them to lighter ones.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Raist

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2008, 07:08:27 PM »
No, chemicals containing carbon are generated. I did not say anything about atoms being created, that is silly in everyday situations. Assuming that meaning in that sentence really doesn't say many good things about you.

The statement was "the amount of carbon generated". Carbon is an element with six protons in its atomic nucleus; the only way it can be created is to remove protons from heavier elements or add them to lighter ones.

I meant carbon based molecules. Most people would assume this, yet your mind automatically assumed the atom, this lack of adaptability, is one of the symptoms of autism. Do you have trouble making friends and fitting in socially? You may have ass-burgers.

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Parsifal

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2008, 07:27:38 PM »
I meant carbon based molecules. Most people would assume this, yet your mind automatically assumed the atom, this lack of adaptability, is one of the symptoms of autism. Do you have trouble making friends and fitting in socially? You may have ass-burgers.

I know what you meant. That's not what you said.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Raist

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2008, 07:29:48 PM »
I meant carbon based molecules. Most people would assume this, yet your mind automatically assumed the atom, this lack of adaptability, is one of the symptoms of autism. Do you have trouble making friends and fitting in socially? You may have ass-burgers.

I know what you meant. That's not what you said.

If you knew what was meant, then the sentence communicated the intent correctly.

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Parsifal

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2008, 07:32:11 PM »
If you knew what was meant, then the sentence communicated the intent correctly.

Not necessarily. This is a public internet forum; others may not be so lenient as me in their interpretation of your, uh... sentences.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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KingMan

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2008, 07:36:06 PM »
The death penalty is a good thing. I think the only thing wrong with it right now is that prisoners have years between sentencing and execution. They should be executed shortly after sentencing to save money.
I hate myself for coming here

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Emir Parkreiner

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2008, 07:41:23 PM »
The death penalty is a good thing. I think the only thing wrong with it right now is that prisoners have years between sentencing and execution. They should be executed shortly after sentencing to save money.
I know this is a troll, but the time between sentencing and execution is the appeals process.

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KingMan

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2008, 07:45:01 PM »
The death penalty is a good thing. I think the only thing wrong with it right now is that prisoners have years between sentencing and execution. They should be executed shortly after sentencing to save money.
I know this is a troll, but the time between sentencing and execution is the appeals process.
OOOOOHHHHHH. Gotcha. I didn't bother looking it up. And I am not a troll!
I hate myself for coming here

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Vauxhall

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2008, 07:45:31 PM »
The death penalty is a good thing. I think the only thing wrong with it right now is that prisoners have years between sentencing and execution. They should be executed shortly after sentencing to save money.
I know this is a troll, but the time between sentencing and execution is the appeals process.
OOOOOHHHHHH. Gotcha. I didn't bother looking it up. And I am not a troll!

Yeah you are.
Read the FAQS.

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Raist

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2008, 09:07:29 PM »
If you knew what was meant, then the sentence communicated the intent correctly.

Not necessarily. This is a public internet forum; others may not be so lenient as me in their interpretation of your, uh... sentences.

So you intentionally mislead them of my intent? That benefits the discussion how? I believe that would be a form of trolling. Good job mod.

Your job is to keep the threads on topic, not intentionally derail them. Failure, it is yummy.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2008, 09:09:30 PM »
Saddam weighs in:

I'm definitely against the death penalty (insert bad jokes about my near-execution here) for the reasons already mentioned about revenge and "two wrongs".  Kudos all around to everyone who spared me from spending a long time typing.  That being said, I think I see where Moonlit is coming from.  It's definitely hard to try and defend the man who raped and murdered your child.  However, not every case is a clear-cut "he deserves to die".  And unfortunately, we either execute murderers or we don't.  Therefore, I don't support executing even the monsters.  Not for their sake, but for the sake of those with mitigating circumstances who don't quite deserve to die.

Interesting considering the thousands you sent to their death.

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KingMan

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2008, 09:10:01 PM »
The death penalty is a good thing. I think the only thing wrong with it right now is that prisoners have years between sentencing and execution. They should be executed shortly after sentencing to save money.
I know this is a troll, but the time between sentencing and execution is the appeals process.
OOOOOHHHHHH. Gotcha. I didn't bother looking it up. And I am not a troll!

Yeah you are.
Yeah, I am huh?
I hate myself for coming here

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Vauxhall

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2008, 09:53:46 PM »
The death penalty is a good thing. I think the only thing wrong with it right now is that prisoners have years between sentencing and execution. They should be executed shortly after sentencing to save money.
I know this is a troll, but the time between sentencing and execution is the appeals process.
OOOOOHHHHHH. Gotcha. I didn't bother looking it up. And I am not a troll!

Yeah you are.
Yeah, I am huh?

yeah, you are. huh!
Read the FAQS.

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KingMan

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2008, 09:54:41 PM »
The death penalty is a good thing. I think the only thing wrong with it right now is that prisoners have years between sentencing and execution. They should be executed shortly after sentencing to save money.
I know this is a troll, but the time between sentencing and execution is the appeals process.
OOOOOHHHHHH. Gotcha. I didn't bother looking it up. And I am not a troll!

Yeah you are.
Yeah, I am huh?

yeah, you are. huh!
Huh what?
I hate myself for coming here

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General Douchebag

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2008, 02:49:56 AM »
You are a troll. And not a good one like the rest of us.
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>