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Death Sentence

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Moonlit

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Death Sentence
« on: November 21, 2008, 12:18:26 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455568,00.html

For people like this, I am for the death penalty.  But, sometimes I can't agree.  How do you feel about it and why?
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Quote from: Saddam Hussein on October 02, 2010, 01:44:40 PM
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cmdshft

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2008, 12:25:55 PM »
Quote from: Moonlit on November 21, 2008, 12:18:26 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455568,00.html

For people like this, I am for the death penalty.  But, sometimes I can't agree.  How do you feel about it and why?

Is Texas still building their Death Row Express Lane?
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Moonlit

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2008, 12:27:40 PM »
Quote from: Hara Taiki on November 21, 2008, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: Moonlit on November 21, 2008, 12:18:26 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455568,00.html

For people like this, I am for the death penalty.  But, sometimes I can't agree.  How do you feel about it and why?

Is Texas still building their Death Row Express Lane?

You know, I haven't heard anything about that in a long time.  I wonder what ever happened to that.
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Quote from: Saddam Hussein on October 02, 2010, 01:44:40 PM
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?
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divito the truthist

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2008, 01:06:25 PM »
Last I heard about it was from Blue Collar Comedy Tour.

As for the topic, it really depends on what you're arguing for. The death penalty is more expensive and unless it is enforced through new legislation, it can't accurately be determined to be a deterrent.
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Moonlit

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2008, 01:15:08 PM »
Quote from: divito the truthist on November 21, 2008, 01:06:25 PM
Last I heard about it was from Blue Collar Comedy Tour.

As for the topic, it really depends on what you're arguing for. The death penalty is more expensive and unless it is enforced through new legislation, it can't accurately be determined to be a deterrent.

Okay.  Hypothetical.  Someone rapes and murders your 12 year old daughter.  If you are a law abiding citizen you won't kill him yourself unless you know the state or feds won't.  So he goes through the works and lands at the conviction.  I think allowing the death penalty to go through is sort of like closure.  It's something the man deserves and the family deserves to have that knowledge that the crime did not go unpunished.  Otherwise you're going to have mothers and fathers killing for the sake of revenge.  Though it is more expensive, I think it's worth it in those cases.

In the cases of a man who does kill another man for harming or murdering his loved ones, I don't think he deserves to die.  It wasn't a matter of complete lack of respect that he did it.  It was for his own peace of mind in knowing that man could never hurt his family again. 

Did I make any sense?  I'm not sure if I did.
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Quote from: Saddam Hussein on October 02, 2010, 01:44:40 PM
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?
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cmdshft

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2008, 01:16:40 PM »
I'm all for the death penalty, as long as you killed someone. If you didn't kill anyone, then I think it's a little unfair.

If you killed someone in self-defense and it's provable that was the case, then not only should the death penalty not apply, but I think the charges against you should be severely lightened (not removed totally). That way it says "We know you had a right to defend yourself and you only could do it one way, but killing is still wrong and so we can't let you off the hook 100%, we don't want people to get the idea that 'hey, I killed someone.. but it was self defense!'".
« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 01:18:46 PM by Hara Taiki »
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ILiekMudkips

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2008, 01:16:55 PM »
Quote from: Moonlit on November 21, 2008, 01:15:08 PM
Quote from: divito the truthist on November 21, 2008, 01:06:25 PM
Last I heard about it was from Blue Collar Comedy Tour.

As for the topic, it really depends on what you're arguing for. The death penalty is more expensive and unless it is enforced through new legislation, it can't accurately be determined to be a deterrent.

Okay.  Hypothetical.  Someone rapes and murders your 12 year old daughter.  If you are a law abiding citizen you won't kill him yourself unless you know the state or feds won't.  So he goes through the works and lands at the conviction.  I think allowing the death penalty to go through is sort of like closure.  It's something the man deserves and the family deserves to have that knowledge that the crime did not go unpunished.  Otherwise you're going to have mothers and fathers killing for the sake of revenge.  Though it is more expensive, I think it's worth it in those cases.

In the cases of a man who does kill another man for harming or murdering his loved ones, I don't think he deserves to die.  It wasn't a matter of complete lack of respect that he did it.  It was for his own peace of mind in knowing that man could never hurt his family again. 

Did I make any sense?  I'm not sure if I did.

My daddy would kill him. He says guys like that deserve to have their boy parts ripped OFF. (he means nuts lol)
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Emir Parkreiner

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2008, 01:17:55 PM »
Quote
Did I make any sense?
You favor retributive justice for child abuse but not for murder.
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Moonlit

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2008, 01:19:50 PM »
Quote from: Emir Parkreiner on November 21, 2008, 01:17:55 PM
Quote
Did I make any sense?
You favor retributive justice for child abuse but not for murder.

I said for child abuse that involved murder. 

Someone rapes and murders your 12 year old daughter.
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Quote from: Saddam Hussein on October 02, 2010, 01:44:40 PM
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?
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ILiekMudkips

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2008, 01:20:57 PM »
Quote from: Emir Parkreiner on November 21, 2008, 01:17:55 PM
Quote
Did I make any sense?
You favor retributive justice for child abuse but not for murder.

Rape and murder is not murder nao? So... if I wants to kills you I just has to stick something in your butt first?
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Emir Parkreiner

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2008, 01:22:38 PM »
Misread, I fail. But why is death of the assailant necessary for closure?
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Moonlit

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2008, 01:24:08 PM »
Quote from: Emir Parkreiner on November 21, 2008, 01:22:38 PM
Misread, I fail. But why is death of the assailant necessary for closure?

If someone killed someone close to you and was allowed to live, you'd have closure?  I wouldn't.  I'd be pissed.
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Quote from: Saddam Hussein on October 02, 2010, 01:44:40 PM
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?
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Emir Parkreiner

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2008, 01:27:19 PM »
Law is based in reasonable mangment of contracts and law violations, not emotion. If the criminal is locked in an institution for life I know they won't harm any more children.
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Moonlit

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2008, 01:30:21 PM »
Quote from: Emir Parkreiner on November 21, 2008, 01:27:19 PM
Law is based in reasonable mangment of contracts and law violations, not emotion. If the criminal is locked in an institution for life I know they won't harm any more children.

Because prison is flawless.   ::)
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Quote from: Saddam Hussein on October 02, 2010, 01:44:40 PM
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?
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ILiekMudkips

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2008, 01:30:57 PM »
Quote from: Emir Parkreiner on November 21, 2008, 01:27:19 PM
Law is based in reasonable mangment of contracts and law violations, not emotion. If the criminal is locked in an institution for life I know they won't harm any more children.

So... It isn't about habilitation? It is about punishment? If they would hurt little girls agains after they gots out, why keep them alive? So they can scape and kill me?
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Wendy

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2008, 01:33:15 PM »
Quote from: Moonlit on November 21, 2008, 01:24:08 PM
Quote from: Emir Parkreiner on November 21, 2008, 01:22:38 PM
Misread, I fail. But why is death of the assailant necessary for closure?

If someone killed someone close to you and was allowed to live, you'd have closure?  I wouldn't.  I'd be pissed.

Well, to forgive is divine and all that, but you don't get closure if the guy dies. I seriously doubt that you will. Sure, it'll make you feel that your loved one has been avenged, but it won't help you in any serious way to get over it.
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Moonlit

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2008, 01:36:06 PM »
Quote from: Wendigo on November 21, 2008, 01:33:15 PM
Quote from: Moonlit on November 21, 2008, 01:24:08 PM
Quote from: Emir Parkreiner on November 21, 2008, 01:22:38 PM
Misread, I fail. But why is death of the assailant necessary for closure?

If someone killed someone close to you and was allowed to live, you'd have closure?  I wouldn't.  I'd be pissed.

Well, to forgive is divine and all that, but you don't get closure if the guy dies. I seriously doubt that you will. Sure, it'll make you feel that your loved one has been avenged, but it won't help you in any serious way to get over it.

Well nothing will help you get over it.  I just think you deserve at least the comfort of knowing the fucker got what was coming to him.  Just, in my mind, if some guy was sitting in prison eating meals everyday, allowed to smoke cigarettes and watch tv, it would drive me crazy.
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Quote from: Saddam Hussein on October 02, 2010, 01:44:40 PM
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?
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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2008, 02:32:25 PM »
"Why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?"

There are many reasons I am against the death penalty

A government cannot claim to have a moral high ground if it endorses the murder of their own citizens; two wrongs don't make a right, yes this man has done something heinous but to kill him would make us no better than him. As for the 'family vengeance' argument, there are many examples where the relative has been able to forgive the man who did it.

I was reading about a woman who lost her daughter to a murderer who (as far as I can remember) killed her in a mugging gone wrong. The man was caught and at first she was understandably enraged at him.  She spent years bitter at him until all she thought about was hate and revenge. She was convinced by either her shrink or her pastor to write to the man and get to know him. Many years later she began to write to him in prison and he wrote back, deeply sorry for his crime. Soon they leaned on each other for emotional support and with each others help she was able to move on.

Now had the death penalty been enforced would the mother have been able to get past it or would she have become a Ms Haversham figure until she died?
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Emir Parkreiner

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2008, 02:35:50 PM »
Quote from: Moonlit on November 21, 2008, 01:30:21 PM
Quote from: Emir Parkreiner on November 21, 2008, 01:27:19 PM
Law is based in reasonable mangment of contracts and law violations, not emotion. If the criminal is locked in an institution for life I know they won't harm any more children.

Because prison is flawless.   ::)

Because the courts deciding who dies are flawless.

Quote from: Moonlit on November 21, 2008, 01:36:06 PM
I just think you deserve at least the comfort of knowing the fucker got what was coming to him.

You don't.
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General Douchebag

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2008, 03:11:22 PM »
I've always been against the death penalty on the grounds that it's just revenge. In a nation without the death penalty you have a dead person and a broken, grieving family, whereas in the more "just" places, you get two deaths, and two broken families. I find the hypocrisy sickening. How can you be morally better than a murderer when you just murdered someone and you don't regret or even attempt to hide it? If anything, the total bullshit backing up these people's claims on the moral high ground makes me hate them more than the killer. I'm only really saying this because I don't like saying cliches like "two wrongs don't make a right". 
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No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>
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Parsifal

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2008, 05:47:14 PM »
Murderers should not be killed, but made to do valuable work for society - such as running on a treadmill to generate electrical power to conserve natural resources - in prison 18 hours a day, 7 days a week.
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Sexual Harassment Panda

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2008, 07:33:53 PM »
Quote from: Robosteve on November 21, 2008, 05:47:14 PM
Murderers should not be killed, but made to do valuable work for society - such as running on a treadmill to generate electrical power to conserve natural resources - in prison 18 hours a day, 7 days a week.
But that would go against the Geneva convention. Making license plates and tshirts is good enough.
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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2008, 03:03:35 AM »
Quote from: General Douchebag on November 21, 2008, 03:11:22 PM
I've always been against the death penalty on the grounds that it's just revenge. In a nation without the death penalty you have a dead person and a broken, grieving family, whereas in the more "just" places, you get two deaths, and two broken families. I find the hypocrisy sickening. How can you be morally better than a murderer when you just murdered someone and you don't regret or even attempt to hide it? If anything, the total bullshit backing up these people's claims on the moral high ground makes me hate them more than the killer. I'm only really saying this because I don't like saying cliches like "two wrongs don't make a right". 

Very well put.
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General Douchebag

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2008, 03:15:27 AM »
Quote from: Sexual Harassment Panda on November 21, 2008, 07:33:53 PM
Quote from: Robosteve on November 21, 2008, 05:47:14 PM
Murderers should not be killed, but made to do valuable work for society - such as running on a treadmill to generate electrical power to conserve natural resources - in prison 18 hours a day, 7 days a week.
But that would go against the Geneva convention. Making license plates and tshirts is good enough.

What, and killing people isn't? They infringed on the most basic of all human rights, they lost their own.
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Quote from: Baseball4Life on April 16, 2010, 09:54:41 AM
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>
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Recusant

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2008, 05:14:54 AM »
Quote from: General Douchebag on November 22, 2008, 03:15:27 AM
They infringed on the most basic of all human rights, they lost their own.
Either everyone has rights or no one does. Why stoop to their level? Two wrongs do not make a right.
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divito the truthist

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2008, 05:30:33 AM »
Quote from: Recusant on November 22, 2008, 05:14:54 AM
Either everyone has rights or no one does.
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britishgent

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2008, 05:39:07 AM »
By that analogy currently no-one has rights.
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General Douchebag

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2008, 05:49:17 AM »
Everybody starts with rights, but if you kill someone, you essentially forfeit yours. It's this rights-with-responsibilities idea that forms the basis of all justice. What would you base your system on?
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Quote from: Baseball4Life on April 16, 2010, 09:54:41 AM
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>
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Wendy

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2008, 05:51:45 AM »
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With great power, comes great responsibility. Now go get me a beer.
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Quote from: Wendy on December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.
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britishgent

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Re: Death Sentence
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2008, 06:00:57 AM »
Quote from: Robosteve on November 21, 2008, 05:47:14 PM
Murderers should not be killed, but made to do valuable work for society - such as running on a treadmill to generate electrical power to conserve natural resources - in prison 18 hours a day, 7 days a week.
That actually happens in paper mario on the Wii
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