Why Jesus & Not Others!?

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #60 on: September 29, 2008, 12:04:55 AM »
Beautiful but I am really surprised people still believing that he is god even though, the very Bible, which is used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within Christianity, clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out of context:

1. God is All Knowing...but Jesus was not. When speaking of the Day of Judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32 and Matt 24:36) But God knows all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own admission, did not know when the Day of Judgment would be, is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not God.

2. God is All-Powerful...but Jesus was not. While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own, but derived from God. He said, "Verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seethe the Father do..." (John 5:19) Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear I judge, and my judgment is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30) But God is not only all-powerful; He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.

3. God does not have a God...but Jesus did have a God. God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17) He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt 27:46) If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read "Myself, myself, why hast thou forsaken me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4) was he praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless, not as I will but as thou wilt." (Matt 26:36-39) Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own admission, and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped and prayed to another being as God, is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.

4. According to the Bible, God is invisible to humans...but Jesus was flesh and blood. While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said, " No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18) "Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." (John 5:37) He also said in John 4:24, "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God ant any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God.

5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him...but Jesus acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from his own. Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said in John 14:28, "My Father is greater than I." When someone referred to him as a "good master" in Luke 18:19, Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God..." Further more, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." (John 8:42) Jesus gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with God, when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine be done," and in John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and therefore Jesus is not God.
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #61 on: September 29, 2008, 12:59:20 AM »
Protip: Jesus had both a divine and human nature, so your above points are moot.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #62 on: September 29, 2008, 01:24:35 AM »
Protip: Jesus had both a divine and human nature, so your above points are moot.

If I were you I wouldn't be saying that. Have you ever asked yourself this "Why I am Denying!?" the truth?  :)


"In what discourse then, after this, will they believe?"
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2008, 02:01:41 AM »
I wish you were me, then you wouldn't spam retarded shit nonstop.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #64 on: September 29, 2008, 02:27:13 AM »
I wish you were me, then you wouldn't spam retarded shit nonstop.

Too bad God didn't grant your wish and I really thank Allah he didn't, otherwise if I were you Allah's words would have been suitable for me:

"They have hearts wherewith they understand not and they have eyes wherewith they see not and they have ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle; nay, they are even more astray. They are indeed altogether heedless."

I prefer spamming with useful posts than posting useless posts full of insulting :)

Sometimes people believes goes beyond imagination!!! They worship a god who pray to himself...  :)

« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 02:29:06 AM by AbdulAziz »
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #65 on: September 29, 2008, 02:28:47 AM »
How can your posts be useful for anything when they are all about fiction? If I wanted to entertainment about homosexuals running around in a desert I would watch Lawrence of Arabia.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #66 on: September 29, 2008, 02:33:42 AM »
How can your posts be useful for anything when they are all about fiction? If I wanted to entertainment about homosexuals running around in a desert I would watch Lawrence of Arabia.

Again if what I am saying is fiction and my believes are only fiction I am in a better position. Are you really in a position to say this after knowing this about your god >>>

Quote
Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized

I swear in the name of Almighty God I would feel shame to show my face here if I was worshiping something like that!?  :)

They are like cattle; nay, they are even more astray. They are indeed altogether heedless."
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 02:35:31 AM by AbdulAziz »
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2008, 02:36:14 AM »
I'd rather worship someone with humility then follow a misogynistic murdering pedophile rapist slave owner.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2008, 02:44:27 AM »
I'd rather worship someone with humility then follow a misogynistic murdering pedophile rapist slave owner.

worshiping is different than following :) I am sorry to say this but the more you post the more you prove that some humans have very limited thinking ^_^ gotta go for now! wishing some Christians who can use their mind read what was posted before :)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 02:49:36 AM by AbdulAziz »
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Wendy

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #69 on: September 29, 2008, 02:52:21 AM »
I wish you were me, then you wouldn't spam retarded shit nonstop.

I sniggered. Sig'd.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #70 on: October 01, 2008, 04:32:31 PM »
By the way is the word trinity used in the Bible!? also The title "Son of man" which is a self designation of Jesus and occurs more than 80 times in the gospels is the clearest description and emphasis by Jesus on his humanity. The classical interpretation given to this title is that it is used to emphasize the human side of Jesus. Now the question which suggests itself is: Do contemporary Christians emphasize this aspect of Jesus?
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #71 on: October 02, 2008, 05:45:21 AM »
By the way is the word trinity used in the Bible!? also The title "Son of man" which is a self designation of Jesus and occurs more than 80 times in the gospels is the clearest description and emphasis by Jesus on his humanity. The classical interpretation given to this title is that it is used to emphasize the human side of Jesus. Now the question which suggests itself is: Do contemporary Christians emphasize this aspect of Jesus?

No they just ramble pointless bollocks. And look for the image of Jesus in prawn crckers and the likes.
And its all astroligical imagary.
First in line for yer mum, god I am horny.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #72 on: October 03, 2008, 05:40:51 AM »
This is for someone who is still trying to defend after so many clear contradictions. If God raised the dead through the prophet mentioned in the previous then what do you say about this >>>

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: (Acts 2:22)

Jesus, the man approved by God, and the man whom God used to show the miracles and signs. This passage makes it 100% clear that Jesus wasn't doing the miracles by his own supposed divine power, rather God did the work through him, which when you put with all the other verses I have showed you means that God granted the miracles to Jesus, and God was really the one in charge, Jesus was just the medium being used....


Quote

No they just ramble pointless bollocks. And look for the image of Jesus in prawn crckers and the likes.
And its all astroligical imagary.

Maybe that's why Allah said >>>

"Dost thou think that most of them hear or understand ? They are like cattle - nay, they are worst than cattle in their behaviour."

:)
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #73 on: October 03, 2008, 06:26:15 AM »
Quote
They are like cattle - nay, they are worst than cattle in their behaviour.
That perfectly describes your penguinpasted ad hoc diatribes that you won't even discuss after two posts, just keep piling more shit on.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #74 on: October 03, 2008, 03:06:56 PM »
Quote
They are like cattle - nay, they are worst than cattle in their behaviour.
That perfectly describes your penguinpasted ad hoc diatribes that you won't even discuss after two posts, just keep piling more shit on.

That was a verse from the Quran :)
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #75 on: October 21, 2008, 10:04:27 AM »
Beautiful but I am really surprised people still believing that he is god even though, the very Bible, which is used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within Christianity, clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out of context:

1. God is All Knowing...but Jesus was not. When speaking of the Day of Judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32 and Matt 24:36) But God knows all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own admission, did not know when the Day of Judgment would be, is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not God.

2. God is All-Powerful...but Jesus was not. While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own, but derived from God. He said, "Verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seethe the Father do..." (John 5:19) Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear I judge, and my judgment is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30) But God is not only all-powerful; He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.

3. God does not have a God...but Jesus did have a God. God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17) He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt 27:46) If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read "Myself, myself, why hast thou forsaken me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4) was he praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless, not as I will but as thou wilt." (Matt 26:36-39) Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own admission, and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped and prayed to another being as God, is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.

4. According to the Bible, God is invisible to humans...but Jesus was flesh and blood. While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said, " No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18) "Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." (John 5:37) He also said in John 4:24, "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God ant any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God.

5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him...but Jesus acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from his own. Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said in John 14:28, "My Father is greater than I." When someone referred to him as a "good master" in Luke 18:19, Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God..." Further more, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." (John 8:42) Jesus gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with God, when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine be done," and in John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and therefore Jesus is not God.
I hate muslims. Jesus was Gods son. He was Gods gift to us.
I hate myself for coming here

Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #76 on: October 21, 2008, 10:08:26 AM »
Well then, is Jesus the son of God because he raised the dead? If so, then what about Ezekiel who is said to have raised many more dead bodies than Jesus ever did. Ezekiel is said to have raised a whole city from the dead (Ezekiel 37:1-9)  :)

Jesus was the son of God because he raised himself from the dead.
I hate myself for coming here

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Wendy

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #77 on: October 21, 2008, 10:29:37 AM »
Jesus was a carpenter with a knack for theatrics.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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General Douchebag

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #78 on: October 21, 2008, 11:05:19 AM »
Jesus was a magician con artist.
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>

Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #79 on: October 21, 2008, 11:51:34 AM »
If you say so. I guess it isn't my place to defend him so I won't try anymore.
I hate myself for coming here

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Vauxhall

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #80 on: October 21, 2008, 11:52:04 AM »
Why the others and not Jesus?

/thread
Read the FAQS.

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Wendy

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #81 on: October 21, 2008, 11:59:35 AM »
At last we agree about something. It isn't your place to defend a supposedly all powerful being, governing life, death, and being in all universes and at all times.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #82 on: October 21, 2008, 02:27:28 PM »
At last we agree about something. It isn't your place to defend a supposedly all powerful being, governing life, death, and being in all universes and at all times.
I don't believe that he governs what we do. If he did then everyone would be Christian. He gives us the freedom to choose.
I hate myself for coming here

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Wendy

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #83 on: October 21, 2008, 02:28:36 PM »
He governs how everything will turn out in the end, but we still have free will.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #84 on: October 21, 2008, 02:30:51 PM »
We know what will happen in the end. It is all in Revelations. And yes we do have free will because we choose how to live our own life.
I hate myself for coming here

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Vauxhall

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #85 on: October 21, 2008, 02:31:05 PM »
He governs how everything will turn out in the end, but we still have free will.

Which contradicts itself, obviously. If God knows how we will end, why send even one person to hell? A benevolent God would not do such a thing to his beloved creations.

/god

with a puff of logical, he's gone.
Read the FAQS.

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Wendy

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #86 on: October 21, 2008, 02:33:01 PM »
Not quite. God doesn't have to follow logic.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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Raist

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #87 on: October 21, 2008, 02:35:12 PM »
He governs how everything will turn out in the end, but we still have free will.

Which contradicts itself, obviously. If God knows how we will end, why send even one person to hell? A benevolent God would not do such a thing to his beloved creations.

/god

with a puff of logical, he's gone.

When I grab my dog by the collar I know he will try to run which lets me pull him up by the collar and steer him.

So does he lack free will because I know what he'll do? Is he forced to run?

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Vauxhall

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Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #88 on: October 21, 2008, 02:44:39 PM »
He governs how everything will turn out in the end, but we still have free will.

Which contradicts itself, obviously. If God knows how we will end, why send even one person to hell? A benevolent God would not do such a thing to his beloved creations.

/god

with a puff of logical, he's gone.

When I grab my dog by the collar I know he will try to run which lets me pull him up by the collar and steer him.

So does he lack free will because I know what he'll do? Is he forced to run?

You excel at the use of straw-men, but why would God grab me by the collar?
Read the FAQS.

Re: Why Jesus & Not Others!?
« Reply #89 on: October 21, 2008, 02:45:22 PM »
When I grab my dog by the collar I know he will try to run which lets me pull him up by the collar and steer him.

So does he lack free will because I know what he'll do? Is he forced to run?