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Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome

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dyno

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Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« on: May 26, 2008, 10:14:34 PM »
I remember Cpt BThime or whatever his name was presented some evidence that was not accepted by FE's for the sinking ship effect.

I have access to a 6inch Schmidt-Cassegrain and an 8-inch Newtonian Reflector. I also have a Nikon D70s with a 300mm zoom lens. I live in a coastal area with a busy port and could take images of ships on the horizon using both telescopes and the refracting zoom lens.

What variables would FE's like to see controlled for such an experiment?

Would the use of the above said telescopes and lens be acceptable for the experiment?






Updated shot of the moon from the scope
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 05:47:37 AM by dyno »
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lived_eht_asan

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2008, 10:45:46 PM »
This is easier because we're not so worried about fish eye.  I for one would love to see the results.

First photo with no telescope and the sunken ship.  Next photo with the restored hull.

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EvilToothpaste

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2008, 11:11:18 PM »
We would love to see your photoshopped pictures. 
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Colossal Death Robot

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2008, 01:09:13 AM »
Rofl, see they deny it already. Its never going to do anything. They wont believe shit. Its so sad, someone actually comes in here willing to do an experiment FOR YOUR LAZY ASSES, asking you how exactly you would like him to do it FOR YOU. Then you go and give him the damn cold shoulder. Seriously FE'ers help him out, he may actually be able to give you some evidence!! now wouldnt that be nice.

not referring to you LEA.
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Quote from: narcberry on May 27, 2008, 05:51:47 PM
But a sure-fire method would be to land on the top side of the sun.
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divito the truthist

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2008, 05:08:13 AM »
Quote from: dyno on May 26, 2008, 10:14:34 PM
I remember Cpt BThime or whatever his name was presented some evidence that was not accepted by FE's for the sinking ship effect.

Really? Where is this evidence, because in my thread, I seem to remember him saying that my explanation was acceptable.
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Logic hopeful

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2008, 07:16:35 AM »
Unfortunately, despite the Captain's best efforts, FEers refused to accept his evidence due to the fact that he used a telephoto lens rather than an old-fashioned telescope.  Tom (somehow) manage to shout him down by saying that a telephoto lens doesn't work the same way/isn't as powerful as a telescope.

If you're going to do this experiment, I'd recommend making sure you pack along a telescope and an adapter of some kind so your camera can take pictures through it.  I'm pretty sure such adapters exist (I thought I saw a thread regarding that topic a while back), but I'm unsure of where one might purchase them.

EDIT:  I found the forum you were talking about, the one bthimes started where he took pictures of the sinking ship.  Here's a link.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=18526.0
« Last Edit: May 27, 2008, 07:22:23 AM by Logic hopeful »
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divito the truthist

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2008, 09:13:31 AM »
Quote from: cpt_bthimes on December 23, 2007, 09:41:05 AM
this morning looking out the window, i actually see the effect devito was talking about (i think).  well, something close to it at least.  there is actually see a "fog of atmosphere" (smog actually), which appears most dense near the horizon.    as the land stretches out below me and away from me, visibility gets steadily worse.  however, very far away, i see distant mountains rising out of the haze.  so in this isolated context, it would appear that devito's argument is sound.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2008, 09:28:19 AM »
Quote
Tom (somehow) manage to shout him down by saying that a telephoto lens doesn't work the same way/isn't as powerful as a telescope.

It says right on the manufacturer's website that the camera lens Bthimes used had a zoom factor of 6.1x.
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Kasroa Is Gone

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2008, 09:40:14 AM »
All sounds legit to me kidder, go for it!
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messierhunter

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2008, 09:52:53 AM »
Quote from: Logic hopeful on May 27, 2008, 07:16:35 AM
If you're going to do this experiment, I'd recommend making sure you pack along a telescope and an adapter of some kind so your camera can take pictures through it.  I'm pretty sure such adapters exist (I thought I saw a thread regarding that topic a while back), but I'm unsure of where one might purchase them.

Well he stated he has two kinds of telescopes, so I would assume he'd use one of them at least.  Indeed, he probably already has the adapters for his scopes as he stated he can take a picture through it.  Just to be safe I'd recommend that he uses the same camera (his D70) for both the non-telescope and through-the-telescope pictures, rather than use a telescope-specific camera (like an LPI or a NexImage).  Any usage of different cameras might be fodder for unfair criticism.  It's quite easy to adapt a D70 to a telescope, but just in case he doesn't have that capability, here's where you can find the adapters needed:
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=105-182-220-225-803
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=105-182-220-224-643
Personally I'm betting the Schmidt-Cassegrain is the better bet for photography as it's probably easier to maintain accurate focus than with a standard Newtonian focuser.  My old newt was no good for that as my SLR camera had a nasty tendency to push the focuser in, throwing off the focus.  If it's a higher quality (not plastic garbage) focuser, then either scope is probably good for the job.
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lindelof

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2008, 10:33:51 AM »
Just so you know dyno (tho' you probably already realize this) you won't ever convince any of the Fe's.

However, if will be nice to have some good data to debate, and not just a mound of speculation.
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eric bloedow

Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2008, 01:00:55 PM »
right, don't bother: FErs will just say "fake" and fling insults, just like they always do...
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lived_eht_asan

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2008, 01:02:19 PM »
Quote from: eric bloedow on May 27, 2008, 01:00:55 PM
right, don't bother: FErs will just say "fake" and fling insults, just like they always do...

Yes!!  Welcome back eric, please don't leave.

Dyno- please carry on with the experiment.  I would love to see the results.  Do make sure to use a high power telescope as suggested.  Good quality glass was available in the 19th century.
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Taters343

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2008, 01:04:15 PM »
Quote from: eric bloedow on May 27, 2008, 01:00:55 PM
right, don't bother: I will just say "fake" and fling insults, just like I always do...

Fix't for accuracy.
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Kasroa Is Gone

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2008, 01:04:21 PM »
I don't care if anyone says they're fake I'd like to see the photos anyway. Sounds interesting so do it regardless!
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2008, 01:15:34 PM »
Was that sooner than the two weeks I gave Eric? I guess so
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Ski

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2008, 04:54:26 PM »
I'd like to see the result as well. I assume you know enough about photography to avoid a fisheye effect in your choice of lenses. What I think is comical is all the RE'ers running around saying that the FE theorists will run away screaming "fake!"  Yet, if the FE hypothesis is shown correct, I wonder what we will see from the RE advocates...
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Colossal Death Robot

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2008, 05:06:45 PM »
I say stuff the FE'ers that are going to call it faked. Some of the ones that actually accept evidence and dont just argue on speculations may actually listen/discuss the results. Would be nice for a change.
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Quote from: narcberry on May 27, 2008, 05:51:47 PM
But a sure-fire method would be to land on the top side of the sun.
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dyno

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2008, 05:50:47 PM »
Yes I will have to purchase a Nikon mount eyepiece adapter for the telescopes in order to take the photographs. With the telescopes there will be no lens distortion as the camera body mounts directly on to the eyepiece without a lens in between.

I don't think the fish eye effect will be a problem with the sinking ship experiment anyway. Even if the edges of the image were curved from a high zoom refraction lens the centre image would not be affected.

High power telescope? The 8 inch Newtonian should be able to achieve 400x zoom. I think the 6 inch Schmidt-Cassegrain should achieve 300x zoom. I think the 300mm camera zoom lens will achieve 6x zoom. Considerably less than the telescopes.

Are these figures acceptable to the FE crowd? Are they of sufficiently acceptable power?
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Logic hopeful

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2008, 09:07:18 PM »
I say go for it and we'll find out!  Bthimes set the groundwork for this experiment, now let's see what happens when someone takes it to the next level!

Wish I could try this myself, but I don't live near the sea.  Best of luck!
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2008, 09:58:06 PM »
Quote
Bthimes set the groundwork for this experiment

What groundwork did Bthimes set by taking a picture of the ship with a camera lens of 6.1x zoom?
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dyno

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2008, 10:24:55 PM »
Still haven't had any input from FE's about this.

I imagine any material submitted to this forum would be subject to intense scrutiny. FE's have still not indicated whether they believe the equipment is satisfactory.

What about the method?

There are a number of options available. The port is located in a bay so it is possible to look across the bay from sea level as well as out to see. In addition to ship shots, shoreline images could also be taken.

The vessels are all petroleum tankers, coal tankers or grain cargo vessels. These should be large enough to avoid problems with haze or sea spray and swell at the water/air interface. A couple of metres lost here(IF it does happen) shouldn't be cause for alarm with a 30-50m high ship
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lived_eht_asan

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2008, 10:29:28 PM »
I am only one, but I find the equipment to be satisfactory.  I have not directly tried this myself so I am very curious to see the results.  I hope you will not forge or ignore the evidence should the results suggest a flat earth.

All first hand accounts I have encountered thus far have suggested the telescope will restore the sunken object.

I would suggest using ships, as tall ships with sails are the original objects from which these accounts originated.
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Logic hopeful

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2008, 11:05:03 PM »
Let us know when you have those photographs, I can't wait to see them!
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dyno

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2008, 12:22:38 AM »
It will take a couple of weeks I think

I don't have the t-ring or t-adaptor. They have been ordered today and should be delivered within a week or two. It will also depend on the weather on weekends as this will be the only time I have available to make the trek to the shoot location.

It does interest me that the most vocal FE proponents have not committed themselves one way or another to comment on this thread.

Thanks for your input LEA.

The thought occurs that by deliberately avoiding commenting on the test they will have recourse to claim that parameters were not controlled enough for them, the equipment wasn't satisfactory, the ships weren't far enough away.... whatever.

Oh by the way...if somehow the sinking ship IS restored using a telescope....I'll be greatly shocked but I won't alter the images. I would still believe in a RE but I would find great cause to discover why the results differ from expectations.
I'll present the images as unaltered Nikon type RAW files if people wish.

Anyway....I'll keep you all up to date.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 12:52:18 AM by dyno »
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Cheesesack

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2008, 10:25:40 AM »
Quote from: EvilToothpaste on May 26, 2008, 11:11:18 PM
We would love to see your photoshopped pictures. 
For fucks sake! Why would he bother to photoshop the pictures. is he in on the conspiracy as well? Is he a government agent? Answer: No. Unlike you FE, we RE do not manipulate evidence to support our theory. We don't need to because an experiment like this will prove you wrong. Your only fall back is the old "it's all lies and fakes". We are guided by rationality and science. If by some miracle this proved the earth was flat we would accept it as truth. However it won't because the earth is round and you saying he will fake the photographs does not make your argument any more valid. Now shut the fuck up.
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lived_eht_asan

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2008, 10:40:18 AM »
Quote from: Cheesesack on May 28, 2008, 10:25:40 AM
For fucks sake! Why would he bother to photoshop the pictures. Now shut the fuck up.

There is your answer right there.

I don't automatically assume he would fake the pictures.  But anyone who posts with the kind of intensity you exhibit, is likely to do anything in support of their obviously emotional arguments.  So no, I don't want to see your photoshop'd photos.
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Youre avin a larf

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2008, 10:49:44 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on May 27, 2008, 09:58:06 PM
Quote
Bthimes set the groundwork for this experiment

What groundwork did Bthimes set by taking a picture of the ship with a camera lens of 6.1x zoom?

Among other things it is apparent you know nothing about about optics either.

Zoom ratio is the ratio of the wide and tele focal lengths. It is not a measure of 'magnification' or whatever you think it might be.
If you want to do a comparison between the telescope and the camera you need to look at angle of view.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2008, 10:56:11 AM »
Quote
Your only fall back is the old "it's all lies and fakes". We are guided by rationality and science.

Isn't "it's all lies and fakes" exactly what you guys say when we present experimental evidence conducted by Samuel Birley Rowbotham, Lady Blount, Thomas Winship, William Carpenter, or any one of the hundreds of other authors of the Flat Earth Literature?
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earthnotflat

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment - input welcome
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2008, 03:51:08 PM »
No.
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