The See saw effect.

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Germanicus

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2008, 02:48:17 PM »
Quote
I don't believe in Universal Acceleration.  Others have found ways to include the "antimoon" or from now on the submoon, or whatever you wish to call it in their theories that coincide with UA.

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James

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2008, 03:01:20 PM »
Username:

That actually does make a lot of sense - an infinite Earth does seem to negate the "crumple" problem of gravity and fence-sitting-gravity models.

Sorry for my rather brash assessment, I'll greatly look forward to reading the paper when it's made available!
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James

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2008, 03:29:26 PM »
Perhaps I should wait for you to release the paper, but there's one issue which I'd be interested to hear your views on which arises from an infinite Earth.

An infinite Earth requires infinite matter, which leads to a problem touched on in D W Scott's "Terra Firma 1901".

To quote the book:
Quote from: David Wardlaw Scott
...when there are countless millions of things, both celestial and terrestrial, all struggling at the same time to attract each other, such a law [gravity], from the inextricable confusion which it would necessarily create, would not only be an absurdity but an impossibility.

What I'm getting at is this. If gravity exists, and if the Earth is an infinite plane, the force of gravity must necessarily be infinite in a given direction. Though the force greatly diminishes with distance, the distance from one object to any other object will necessarily be finite - consequently some amount of gravity will still be exerted. This effect compounded to infinity would, if I'm not mistaken, render existence as we know it entirely impossible. An infinitely strong gravitational pull would instantaneously attract matter to its source, compacting the universe into nothingness. I appreciate that the Earth as a whole would have no centre of gravity, but any arbitrary article of matter would.

I'm interested to hear your take on this, but if you'd rather deal with it in what you're working on, I'll gladly wait.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Germanicus

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2008, 03:37:21 PM »
Something standing in the way of this is the cosmological law. If the universe is infinite in one direction, it must be infinite in all others.

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Username

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2008, 03:45:30 PM »
What I'm getting at is this. If gravity exists, and if the Earth is an infinite plane, the force of gravity must necessarily be infinite in a given direction. Though the force greatly diminishes with distance, the distance from one object to any other object will necessarily be finite - consequently some amount of gravity will still be exerted. This effect compounded to infinity would, if I'm not mistaken, render existence as we know it entirely impossible. An infinitely strong gravitational pull would instantaneously attract matter to its source, compacting the universe into nothingness. I appreciate that the Earth as a whole would have no centre of gravity, but any arbitrary article of matter would.

I'm interested to hear your take on this, but if you'd rather deal with it in what you're working on, I'll gladly wait.

An infinite plane of matter can indeed exert a finite pull.  Gauss's Law can be applied to gravity and as such you can derive a finite pull of 9.8m/s/s given an earth of thickness 9000km with roughly the density of rock.
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fshy94

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2008, 03:53:32 PM »
You need to clarify your point. You're not really advocating infinite plane, but go ahead and explain it a little better. Trust me, that's why I got mad last time(plus I was in a bad mood, but that didn't really help :D)
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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2008, 04:03:32 PM »
Infinite Flat Earth Depth and Gravitational Pull

Using Gauss's law:


Alternately, you can integrate:
Apply

to an infinite slab of density , obtaining

where A is the area of the "pillbox," G is the gravitational constant, and h is the thickness of the slab. Therefore, the gravitational acceleration is given by

Source:Wolfram.com

Either way, a < 2*pi*G*D*t for an infinite set of planes with thickness t

Plug in 2500 kg/m^3 for D,  9.81m/s/s for a and we find a minimum 9000 km for the thickness, t.


The earth may also "loop back" upon itself.  Or repeat.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 04:05:39 PM by Username »
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2008, 04:23:44 PM »
Something standing in the way of this is the cosmological law. If the universe is infinite in one direction, it must be infinite in all others.

Back up that this is a verified scientific law.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Germanicus

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2008, 05:10:01 PM »

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Username

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2008, 05:19:12 PM »
That article itself lists at least one reason why it may fool hardy and illogical to assume that it is a valid principle.
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Germanicus

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2008, 05:27:27 PM »
Still, I cannot believe in infinite matter. Its a horribly ugly concept.

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fshy94

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2008, 05:40:51 PM »
It is, especially in a finite universe, which is the leading theory, currently.
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http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

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Optimus Prime

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2008, 05:48:15 PM »
Well, on Username's behalf, the only "infinity" required to support his theory is basically one that spans the Universe eh? As the Universe expands then so would the infinite plane... which actually would make a certain amount of sense if it indeed exists, it being such a large plane and attractive mass it would build from created matter.

In this respect it could even be the process creating the expansion of the Universe. Hey, it may not be a mainstream idea and sompletely out of the box, but it's an interesting concept to be certain :)
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fshy94

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2008, 05:51:11 PM »
That violates conservation though, as the Earth must expand with the universe, if I understand you correctly.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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Germanicus

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2008, 05:58:49 PM »
The only problem is that the Earth's gravitation the universe pulling it apart/expanding it.

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jdoe

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2008, 06:18:39 PM »
Well, it is possible that the earth is a finite disk (still much larger than the conventional FE model) but still produces the gravitational field we observe.  It could be that mountains form because of this disk trying to collapse into a sphere over a long period of time; we are just in the middle of this process.

Just a thought...
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 06:22:05 PM by jdoe »
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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2008, 06:51:26 PM »
It could be a finite amount of matter that acts (gravitationally) like an infinite plane.  For example, if it were to loop back upon itself due to higher dimensions
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Germanicus

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2008, 06:53:40 PM »
Isn't that idea from string theory?

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Username

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2008, 07:03:57 PM »
Isn't that idea from string theory?

I am uncertain if it is possible to merge the two based on that alone.  HIgher dimensions is a much older concept than string theory, however.  String theory, iirc, deals with tiny compacted dimensions.  This would sort of be going the opposite direction.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable about String theory might know.  What I've learned about it is out of pop books for it.
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Germanicus

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2008, 07:05:12 PM »
No, I mean the idea of a loop on which an ant can walk around.

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Username

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2008, 07:06:46 PM »
Not necessarily from String THeory, but it is often used as an example when describing it.  Its just sorta a consequence of not being aware of spacial dimensions above you.
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Germanicus

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2008, 07:15:30 PM »
Here's a thought: an infinite earth being heated by a 32 mile sun? Somewhere you're going to be messing with absolute zero.

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eric bloedow

Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2008, 07:33:47 PM »
this just occurred to me:

when i asked why UA would not make people hover above the earth (accellerating at exactly the same rate) the response was that the mass of earth somehow "blocks" UA.

but that would mean the ANTIMOON would be accellerated MORE than the part of the FE it is underneath! that would make it crash into earth!

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Username

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #53 on: January 15, 2008, 07:45:34 PM »
but that would mean the ANTIMOON would be accellerated MORE than the part of the FE it is underneath! that would make it crash into earth!
Eventually, yes.  I mean, ignoring that you are mixing theories.
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Optimus Prime

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2008, 07:52:02 PM »
That violates conservation though, as the Earth must expand with the universe, if I understand you correctly.

How would this violate conservation? (Note that I am being a smart-ass here, so fair warning ;) )
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James

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2008, 05:24:17 AM »
this just occurred to me:

when i asked why UA would not make people hover above the earth (accellerating at exactly the same rate) the response was that the mass of earth somehow "blocks" UA.

but that would mean the ANTIMOON would be accellerated MORE than the part of the FE it is underneath! that would make it crash into earth!

The UA isn't a force it's a thing. If you put a plate of food on a table and then accelerate the table upwards, the table doesn't make the food hover above the plate.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Optimus Prime

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #56 on: January 16, 2008, 05:56:04 AM »
Aside from that, the UA has pretty much been debunked at this point.. or I should say the Idea of an accelerating earth according to GR.

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divito the truthist

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2008, 08:49:22 AM »
Aside from that, the UA has pretty much been debunked at this point.. or I should say the Idea of an accelerating earth according to GR.

Since when?
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fshy94

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #58 on: January 16, 2008, 09:42:18 AM »
Since no-one had an explanation for altitudinal differences in gravity...
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

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The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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Username

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Re: The See saw effect.
« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2008, 09:43:47 AM »
Since no-one had an explanation for altitudinal differences in gravity...
Excuse me if this has been covered before, but what experiment shows altitude differences in gravitational pull?
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